"Themes"

[madelinemasoch]

I've seen several on this forum refer to cuckoldry as a "theme." A theme in literature, as we have all undoubtedly been doubt, is the main idea of the story. I've never taken this to mean subject matter, but rather the story's "animating principle", for lack of a better term. Even if one includes subject matter in their definition of a theme, I don't think cuckoldry constitutes a theme on its own. There are too many different ways of doing it, which all have themes of their own, and when one puts this subject matter into an entire fleshed out story with not only character development and depth but a message of its own, more themes have the time to come up. It'd sound very weird if somebody said "cuckoldry is the theme," don't you think? There must be more to it than that, I'd imagine.

Let me give you an example: In CC6, Eleanor says this: "If there's anything I've learned from being with Matty, and I have learned a lot from her, it's that people need to be hurt in order to become better." People need to be hurt in order to become better, now that's a theme. She's the mouthpiece. Even more interestingly, Leya, who she's talking to in that scene, doesn't understand what she means and accuses her of being narcissistic. Still, Eleanor is getting as close as she can to saying the unsayable, i.e., breaking the fourth wall and going full analysis on the story she's literally in... because that's precisely what's happening to the cucks at the camp. If I were able, I'd write deeper final chapters of the story to show this in its full light, but a certain member put my story on hold by reporting it. 40 days in pending.

That's all aside from the point of this thread, though. I'm trying to say that a theme should be more than the story's subject matter, calling something like cuckoldry a theme is necessarily reductive when one is dealing with something more than a 1 page stroker (no shade), and that themes can even be misunderstood by the characters that are in the story with it.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

If I were able, I'd write deeper final chapters of the story to show this in its full light, but a certain member put my story on hold by reporting it. 40 days in pending.

First of all: Thihihihi.

Second of all: If the story has been stuck in review hell for more than a month, it's not because it was reported. It's either because the moderators aren't sure how to deal with it, in which case the reporting was probably justified regardless of how you feel about it, or they lack the motivation to subject themselves to even more of the vile crap that gets reported on here. Either way, it would be news to me that a story gets pulled because one single user reported it for no reason. So, it feels wrong to blame "a certain member".

Now, regarding the actual topic...

I'm trying to say that a theme should be more than the story's subject matter, calling something like cuckoldry a theme is necessarily reductive when one is dealing with something more than a 1 page stroker (no shade), and that themes can even be misunderstood by the characters that are in the story with it.

I kinda agree and disagree with your statement. Literature is, ideally, an attempt at conveying complex ideas. The theme, as I came to understand the term, is not "the story's subject matter". It's the vehicle used to approach those ideas.

Now, if your story is about how hot it is to physically and psychologically torture men, and cuckolding is the vehicle you use to approach that idea, then cuckolding is the theme of your story. It's what you use to achieve the goal you set for your plot, which was to convey an idea.

You can claim that you are trying to convey some kind of grandiose literary form of social criticism and then be miffed about people who don't get it, or you can claim that your story was about more than just the sexual act or practice, but, at the end of the day,... you published a cuckolding story on a website for erotic stories.

 

[ronde]

I agree with you. Cuckoldry is an action, or a lifestyle, or a preference, but it's not a theme. In my way of thinking, a theme could be described as the basis for the plot. For example, in one of my favorite pieces of erotica, "Lady Chatterley's Lover", by D.H. Lawerence, there are a couple themes. One is the developing relationship between two people of very different social status and very different opinions about sex. The second is a comment on British societal "rules" at the time. Yes, there is infidelity and all the thoughts and fears that go with it, but that's just the actions that take place, not the theme of the novel.

 

[Devinter]

It'd sound very weird if somebody said "cuckoldry is the theme," don't you think? There must be more to it than that, I'd imagine.

No, and no. It's not as deep and complex as you seem think it is. I'm reading between the lines, and taking into account posts you've made in other threads, but pretty sure you just want your particular kink to be of "greater meaning" than all the rest. It isn't. Any kink can be made "political" or have a "deeper meaning" depending on how you present it.

Cuckoldry is a theme because stories revolving around this kink nearly always make that the focal point - the main topic, if you will. When you sit down and write your Cuck stories, that's exactly where you start - by focusing on and including that kink. The story wouldn't work without it. It's the skeleton that the rest is built upon.

 

[TheRedChamber]

My understanding (and no I'm not a literature major) is that yes themes are typically considered to be something deeper than the main fetish or genre on offer.

So Cuck may be the genre or part of the framing of the story, but the theme would be 'abuse of power', or 'learning to deal with change', or 'learning to stand up for yourself'.

The thing about themes is that most good pieces tend to have them, but there not necessarily something which is there for the start - getting the theme for a piece can the moment when your story starts to be 'about' something - when it starts to have a point. If a story doesn't have a theme, it might have some fun action, but it's generally a lot harder for the reader to get invested in anything that happens.

 

[madelinemasoch]

No, and no. It's not as deep and complex as you seem think it is. I'm reading between the lines, and taking into account posts you've made in other threads, but pretty sure you just want your particular kink to be of "greater meaning" than all the rest. It isn't. Any kink can be made "political" or have a "deeper meaning" depending on how you present it.

Cuckoldry is a theme because stories revolving around this kink nearly always make that the focal point - the main topic, if you will. When you sit down and write your Cuck stories, that's exactly where you start - by focusing on and including that kink. The story wouldn't work without it. It's the skeleton that the rest is built upon.

View attachment 2287726

So, I just posted this entire thread delving deeper than the kink, and then ironically, you read into what I said (and admitted it) to make the claim that "it isn't that deep bro" ... and people still get on my case for begrudging the fact that I'm misunderstood on this forum.

Yeah, I simply don't believe that the kink I write about is the only way of getting deep. There are probably brilliant themes in stories that I've never read on this website. I actually really liked when old Tilan wrote twists on BTB stories in order to convey a message of compassion.

I'm making a case for shooting higher than what the damn dictionary says when it comes to crafting a theme.

You can be stubborn if you want to, but I don't care to be misrepresented.

 

[madelinemasoch]

You can claim that you are trying to convey some kind of grandiose literary form of social criticism and then be miffed about people who don't get it, or you can claim that your story was about more than just the sexual act or practice, but, at the end of the day,... you published a cuckolding story on a website for erotic stories.

You must have a very low opinion of not only me but all the authors on this website in general if you think that we have nothing to say that's more than sexual in an erotic story.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

You must have a very low opinion of not only me but all the authors on this website in general if you think that we have nothing to say that's more than sexual in an erotic story.

No. I'm doubtful a site for erotic stories is the right place to publish something that's about more than sexual acts. You can do it, no question about it. And there will be people appreciating it. But I'm convinced that the majority of readers do not come to Literotica for anything other than the sex in the stories.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Most of my stories are built around an emotional theme, not a particular subject matter. I see the subject as the body of the story and the theme as the soul.

For example, the main characters in The Gold Dollars are strippers, but its actual theme is female friendship. The heart of the story is not the girl's sexcapades, but how Roxanne and Clover go from rivals to friends. The Adventures of Ranger Ramona has plenty of sex scenes, but if you ask me what what it's about, I'll tell you it's about the difficulty of a woman trying to maintain her personal integrity while working in a sometimes hostile male dominated environment.

Of course, I don't expect every other writer to approach things the way I do. There's room for as many techniques and styles as the mind can imagine. If readers enjoy my stories, but don't think, "That was a really good story about overcoming grief" or "Maybe it is possible to change what happened in the past and get another chance", that's cool with me. But my greatest gratification as an author comes when they do.

Sometimes I don't find that thread of soul, and I get a story that's just fun, and that's okay too.But I always strive for it.

 

[Devinter]

But I'm convinced that the majority of readers do not come to Literotica for anything other than the sex in the stories.

Agreed - especially not to read about torture and mutilation.

That being said, one could argue that "Erotic Horror" perhaps certainly would be a category where you can include quite a few disturbing things in a story for the purpose of instilling fear and shock value in the reader. Because it's within the context of a story. Fiction. But to then go on the forum and defend the incredibly creepy actions within said story is.. Serial killer behaviour. Pretty sure at least one poster in this thread is on some government watchlist, and it isn't you or me.

I'm making a case for shooting higher than what the damn dictionary says when it comes to crafting a theme.

Ah yes, that makes total sense. Let's ignore the actual dictionary definition of words and just substitute them with our own "higher" interpretations instead. That won't confuse anyone!

 

[MelissaBaby]

No. I'm doubtful a site for erotic stories is the right place to publish something that's about more than sexual acts. You can do it, no question about it. And there will be people appreciating it. But I'm convinced that the majority of readers do not come to Literotica for anything other than the sex in the stories.

The majority of readers don't read any one particular thing here.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Technically, A story's theme is the message woven throughout it, often about important topics such as human nature, life, or society. It is deeper than the plot or summary, and it can answer questions such as "What does it mean to be a family?" or "What are we afraid of?".

In erotic literature, to me, the theme of the story is the idea the writer is trying to get across. In most erotic stories, the writer is trying to entice the reader into a state of arousal. However, a writer can have several goals in a single story.

 

[ronde]

No, and no. It's not as deep and complex as you seem think it is. I'm reading between the lines, and taking into account posts you've made in other threads, but pretty sure you just want your particular kink to be of "greater meaning" than all the rest. It isn't. Any kink can be made "political" or have a "deeper meaning" depending on how you present it.

Cuckoldry is a theme because stories revolving around this kink nearly always make that the focal point - the main topic, if you will. When you sit down and write your Cuck stories, that's exactly where you start - by focusing on and including that kink. The story wouldn't work without it. It's the skeleton that the rest is built upon.

View attachment 2287726

I think we're talking two different levels of writing here, no matter what the actual genre of the story. A cuckold story can be just a relating of the actions of a couple, the wife of which is promiscuous and the husband of which is at least in agreement if not encouraging her to accept multiple partners. That is just the genre. The "theme" of the piece is the underlying reasons why this couple enjoys that lifestyle. Cuckoldry is generally defined by psychologists as a form of masochism, and the "theme" of the story could be an exploration of why the husband agrees to the arrangement. Does he feel inferior to other men, and if so, what in his life caused that.

There are numerous examples of this "two-fold" story line in novels and films. "Star Wars" was a sci-fi story filled with battles and drama caused by the past of the characters, but the main "theme" was "good triumphing over evil". "Days of Wine and Roses" would be classified as a romance/drama, but the "theme" of the movie is the causes and cures of alcoholism. Even comedies can have a "theme" as well as story action. "The Great Race" was a comedy about cars racing around the world and how one driver plotted to cheat his way to the win, but was also a commentary on society at the onset of the automobile age.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Pretty sure at least one poster in this thread is on some government watchlist, and it isn't you or me.

I'd be ashamed if I wasn't.

Ah yes, that makes total sense. Let's ignore the actual dictionary definition of words and just substitute them with our own "higher" interpretations instead. That won't confuse anyone!

Please, give me another string of words. The meaning of words must be reducible to more words, right? /s

 

[MillieDynamite]

The Days of Wine and Roses is equivalent to a Greek Tragedy—two people in love, both with deep-seated problems, alcohol dependence, and low self-esteem. What could possibly go wrong? She has a baby and nearly kills the child in a fire she started while drunk. He gets sober, packs up the child, and leaves her ass so she can party her way to death. She attempts to reconcile, but he won't take her back unless she is willing to get clean. the daughter asks if Mommy can get well. The fathers say, I did, didn't I? The girl (Debbie I think) nods and goes back to bed. The flashing neon sign reflected in the window, LOUNGE, while he gazes out wistfully, longing to have just one more fucking drink.

I think we're talking two different levels of writing here, no matter what the actual genre of the story. A cuckold story can be just a relating of the actions of a couple, the wife of which is promiscuous and the husband of which is at least in agreement if not encouraging her to accept multiple partners. That is just the genre. The "theme" of the piece is the underlying reasons why this couple enjoys that lifestyle. Cuckoldry is generally defined by psychologists as a form of masochism, and the "theme" of the story could be an exploration of why the husband agrees to the arrangement. Does he feel inferior to other men, and if so, what in his life caused that.

There are numerous examples of this "two-fold" story line in novels and films. "Star Wars" was a sci-fi story filled with battles and drama caused by the past of the characters, but the main "theme" was "good triumphing over evil". "Days of Wine and Roses" would be classified as a romance/drama, but the "theme" of the movie is the causes and cures of alcoholism. Even comedies can have a "theme" as well as story action. "The Great Race" was a comedy about cars racing around the world and how one driver plotted to cheat his way to the win, but was also a commentary on society at the onset of the automobile age.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Plenty of polarizing opinions here, it seems. I agree that cuckoldry isn't a theme in a greater sense. It is a kink, and it can even be called a "sexual theme", but literary themes, the way I see them, are generally something more complex, something that encompasses multiple things. Cuckoldry can certainly be an important part of a theme, but not a theme by itself. That being said, there are plenty of simple stories that do focus exclusively on a certain "sexual theme" and are not trying to convey anything deeper. That is fine and there is actually a high demand for exactly that type of stories.

Also, Lit stories might not be Shakespeare-level literature, and many among them are just simple stroke material, but there are stories that go deeper, beyond the purely sexual, and touch some philosophical and social themes. Considering the expectations of the audience on a website like this one, such themes might not be the focal point of a story, but they do exist in some stories, so there is no need to look at all of Lit stories as simple entertainment material either.

 

[lovecraft68]

But I'm convinced that the majority of readers do not come to Literotica for anything other than the sex in the stories.

You couldn't be more wrong. Do they come here mostly for erotica? Sure. Are there some here who only want one handed strokers, of course. But a large percentage of readers here want a story to go with the sex so the sex has more meaning.

I'll also add you're insulting the intelligence of the readers thinking they're purely here to get off like horny teenagers.

Feel free to accuse some of the forum members of that though

 

[lovecraft68]

Kink, 'device' fetish, genre all work.

The discussion of theme here is a waste of time. Its semantics FFS, stop 'musing' and trying to sound super smart and go write a story.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

You couldn't be more wrong. Do they come here mostly for erotica? Sure. Are there some here who only want one handed strokers, of course. But a large percentage of readers here want a story to go with the sex so the sex has more meaning.

I'll also add you're insulting the intelligence of the readers thinking they're purely here to get off like horny teenagers.

Feel free to accuse some of the forum members of that though

Well... you're right. Writing "anything other than sex" was probably a really stupid way to phrase that.

The point I was trying to make was that I just can't believe users come here for the literary value of the stories, but because they'll find erotic stories here.

 

[MillieDynamite]

But, @lovecraft68, I am super smart!

Kink, 'device' fetish, genre all work.

The discussion of theme here is a waste of time. Its semantics FFS, stop 'musing' and trying to sound super smart and go write a story.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well... you're right. Writing "anything other than sex" was probably a really stupid way to phrase that.

The point I was trying to make was that I just can't believe users come here for the literary value of the stories, but because they'll find erotic stories here.

There's a term some people throw around "Literary erotica" I don't put much thought into it, but I suppose they mean something sexy that's also story driven. I prefer the term 'slow burn' where there's story/conflict and if done right the sexy bits are sexier. I'd guess most of my base falls under that because its my style.

But there are readers here looking for "Dear Penthouse" as well and those who like both depending upon mood.

That's why I don't put much stock in conversations like this, whatever your story happens to be, someone here will like it-and hate it

However, for years the tag line under my for sale pen names has declared "My Smut Has depth!"

far less pretentious than "literary erotica"

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The point I was trying to make was that I just can't believe users come here for the literary value of the stories, but because they'll find erotic stories here.

Erotic stories can still have literary value. But I get the point you are trying to make. An overwhelming majority comes for the erotica part. Still, let's not be so disdainful about the things we do here, there are plenty of those out there who are doing it already. These stories are not first-rate literature, but there are some gems, and there is a decent percentage of stories that aren't simple sex scenes with a bit of plot. Some of them contain deep, thoughtful characters. Some touch on some social and moral issues. If Tilan was still here, he would probably argue that his stories are pure works of art. Pearls cast before the swine

 

[lovecraft68]

But, @lovecraft68, I am super smart!

I know you are, but I don't want to make everyone else feel bad so I just lump you in.

 

[lovecraft68]

Erotic stories can still have literary value. But I get the point you are trying to make. An overwhelming majority comes for the erotica part. Still, let's not be so disdainful about the things we do here, there are plenty of those out there who are doing it already. These stories are not first-rate literature, but there are some gems, and there is a decent percentage of stories that aren't simple sex scenes with a bit of plot. Some of them contain deep, thoughtful characters. Some touch on some social and moral issues. If Tilan was still here, he would probably argue that his stories are pure works of art. Pearls cast before the swine

If your stories were still here your opinions might carry some weight.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Soon, very soon...