The Whole Jealousy Thing...

[SexyChele]

Okay, this is coming from some one who has not walked the path, but has only thought about it.

I've seen threads here and elsewhere within the BDSM community where Dom/mes state they would someday like multiple subs. And I see subs stating they fear the day when their Dom/me might bring in another sub, and they hope they would be able to over their jealousy.

This sounds weird to me. Yes, yes, I understand the whole "jealousy is based on insecurity" psycho- babble. True or not - who really knows? Or cares? Some people are inclined to be jealous, others are not. Each are okay in my book. (Well, unless they are pathologically jealous - that isn't good for anyone!) So, some issues that I have: what would make a Dom/me want another sub? Is it sort of like having a fan club? Now, I do understand the unique relationships that some have on here and I've learned to see where they are coming from. That's cool. What I'm talking about is the idea that a Dom/me knows or suspects that their sub might have issues and still insists on bringing in another sub - why? And then stating the sub needs to deal with it. I'm just not understanding this.

As far as subs are concerned, if there are issues of jealousy and if a Dom/me brings in another sub, why stick around? Why make oneself miserable, first by feeling bad about being jealous, and second, by thinking you are somehow "at fault"? If the situation becomes uncomfortable, why not just.......leave?

As for me? Well, I don't share well. Guess it comes from being an only child, and all the toys in the toy box were mine. I don't know. When I was actively seeking a Dom, I was upfront about the fact that I would be looking for strictly one on one relationships. I was surprised at the number of Doms who said they could not adhere to that, that they would possibly be seeking more than one sub. (I mean, are they looking for a relationship or a harem?) When that came up in the conversation, I politely thanked them for their time, and cut off all contact. Most of the time, I was told it was something I would have to "get used to and accept" if I wanted to pursue some one in the lifestyle.

So, what's up with this part of the lifestyle? I mean, I am who I am, and at this age it ain't all that easy to change. Not that I would want to anyway.

Comments? Discussion? Stone-throwing?

 

[Ebonyfire]

So, what's up with this part of the lifestyle? I mean, I am who I am, and at this age it ain't all that easy to change. Not that I would want to anyway.

Comments? Discussion? Stone-throwing?

It is up to the people who are involved. I for one do not waste my time with jealous subs or jealous men.

If a person wants to deal with the issue, then that is their choice. I only speak for Me. In My world, jealousy and possessiveness have no place.

I should mention that when I take a submissive, they have read my conditions for service, and part of that is that they give up the right to be jealous or possessive.

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Re: The Whole Jealousy Thing...

It is up to the people who are involved. I for one do not waste my time with jealous subs or jealous men.

If a person wants to deal with the issue, then that is their choice. I only speak for Me. In My world, jealousy and possessiveness have no place.

I should mention that when I take a submissive, they have read my conditions for service, and part of that is that they give up the right to be jealous or possessive.

EB - you are quite possibly the only person's opinion on this that I can say I understand. We are not the same on this issue, but at least I can see where you are coming from. I think my understanding stems from the idea that you are totally open to those in your life and make no bones about it. That is honesty that even I can respect in regards to this issue.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: The Whole Jealousy Thing...

EB - you are quite possibly the only person's opinion on this that I can say I understand. We are not the same on this issue, but at least I can see where you are coming from. I think my understanding stems from the idea that you are totally open to those in your life and make no bones about it. That is honesty that even I can respect in regards to this issue.

Thanks for sharing!

I think that you are entitled to your feelings. I should have made that more clear.

You will have to seek the type of relationship that you can live with.

I make sure the subs who serve Me know what they will be required to do. I do not run a Burger King franchise. They cannot have it their way. After all, that is why they seek Me out in the first place. They want control, structure, direction, and discipline.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I truly do believe that subs and Dom/mes that NEED a BDSM relationship that is only one on one should NOT settle for anything else.
But that is not My way. There is no place in My home for jealousy, competition or insecurity. I always have been and always will be totally up front about having more than one sub or slave.
It has nothing to do with wanting a fan club...I do not need to possess subs to get a fan club..nor do fan clubs bring any particular satisfaction..as I have said many times..when I want My ass kissed I will say so!
I enjoy the many facets of human nature..subs that are polar worlds apart in their similarities. I have no desire to control carbon copy submissives but I do enjoy pushing the limits of diversity.
It is solely My responsibility to keep My toys feeling cared for and equal in My affections. It is solely My responsibility to ensure that they do not feel threatened by the others. I take that responsibility seriously and always try to make certain that My poly lifestyle enriches their lives as well as My own.
This is NOT a *maybe* hanging over the sub who may wish to belong to Me...It is a certainty. I spell it out loud and clear the first day that they consider applying for My Domination. It is not negotiable.
Having said that I do not think less of a sub that can find no joy in this type of a relationship. I encourage them to find the magic that they need.

 

[WynEternal]

When I was with Mistress, I knew I was not to be the only one in her life. Because of my insecurities about myself (which she was trying to help me overcome) I sometimes felt pangs of hurt when others were around. I knew she was polyamorous, and I accepted it.

We were all made to feel comfortable around each other, never to just "deal with it." If other Dom/mes or subs were around, I did my best to live up to her faith in my abilities and not to disrespect her in any way. My foremost purposed in being there was her happyness.

I hope I'm explaining this coherently.

 

[FungiUg]

Muliple partners and BDSM

I agree with most of what's been said here.

Remember that a BDSM or D/s relationship is still a relationship and requires all that any relationship requires to be healthy: honesty, caring, love, commitment, sharing, acceptance, communication, humour, passion, sex, and so on. So you need to be honest about this issue too, and accepting of others.

If you are someone who needs a one-on-one (dare I say monogamous), loving, committed relationship, why should you settle for less? You would never be happy in such a case.

On the other hand, if you are someone who needs many people and many loves in your life, then settling for less will again only cause problems and unhappiness.

Problems arise when people connect who are incompatible in that area. "Unfaithfulness" and "jealousy" are so common, and yet people don't often open up about what they are like in this area. You would think we would learn.

Me, I'm somewhere in between. I only have time for one love in my life. But I enjoy sex with other people.

 

[Ebonyfire]

<snip>Having said that I do not think less of a sub that can find no joy in this type of a relationship. I encourage them to find the magic that they need.

I have to totally agree with your very well stated views.

I hold no grudge to any sub who cannot live under my conditions. In fact, I have a few sub friends who I regularly chat with who have not been able to meet my requirements, yet we have a continuing friendship.

Like Shadowsdream, I make My requirements perfectly clear to all who contact Me.

Unlike Shadowsdream, I have vanilla relationships and the requirement is the same. No possessiveness, and no jealousy.

 

[NemoAlia]

There are a lot of things that stem from insecurity, but I wouldn't necessarily say that jealousy is always one of them. I mean, jealousy happens when somebody breaks a promise to someone for the benefit of someone else. It's totally understandable for the victim of that broken promise to be hurt and upset. For this reason, even a polyamorous person can feel jealousy without its being his/her own fault. In fact, I don't think there's really anyone (self-confident or not, polyamorous or not) who does not have the potential to be jealous.

As for me, monogamy is enough of a challenge for right now, thank you. It might not be the end-all, be-all relationship answer, but it's certainly a worthy place to be.

 

[Ebonyfire]

There are a lot of things that stem from insecurity, but I wouldn't necessarily say that jealousy is always one of them. I mean, jealousy happens when somebody breaks a promise to someone for the benefit of someone else. It's totally understandable for the victim of that broken promise to be hurt and upset. For this reason, even a polyamorous person can feel jealousy without its being his/her own fault. In fact, I don't think there's really anyone (self-confident or not, polyamorous or not) who does not have the potential to be jealous.

As for me, monogamy is enough of a challenge for right now, thank you. It might not be the end-all, be-all relationship answer, but it's certainly a worthy place to be.

Sorry, to disagree, but I don't. Jealousy is not in my lexicon. No one is worth it.

 

[SexyChele]

Thank you all for your observations and opinions! I'm still reading and digesting what has been said, but do appreciate Shadowsdream's comment regarding subs (and Dom/mes?) finding the magic that they need and desire - in whatever form it takes.

I would also agree with EB that there are people who genuinely do not feel jealousy. I've met a couple of them. It simply doesn't exist for them. Not something I can explain clearly - used to date a man who was like this - but I do have to admit they were very well-adjusted individuals who seemed to worry less than the average person. In fact, many times I was, well, okay I gotta say it - I was jealous! Okay, maybe envious would be a better word!

I do agree that prior communication is vital to this sort of thing. But I wonder about something. So far I've not heard from any Doms, and the Dommes are very open and honest in assessing their subs needs and communicating what is expected. Maybe it's just the men that I met, who knows? But it seemed that with most of them had I not brought up the subject of the potential for other subs, they would not. Maybe they would have at a later time, rather than through emails? I don't know. I understand that Eb and Shadowsdream are open from the beginning, but has anyone else experienced a situation where the potential to bring in other subs was discussed at a later time? Not necessarily after a relationship was established, but not at the beginning?

Okay, I'll shut up and give other people a chance to talk!

 

[bunny bondage]

i am with you, Chele, i simply DO NOT SHARE. a while ago, i was in a relationship with a dom who wanted to have a small family of subs, all working together to serve him. well this is fine and dandy for him, but i ran screaming from the relationship. i simply have to be the only one in my man's life. i have the unfortunate tendancy to be insanely jealous, and just can't handle competition. i would always worry if i was the "favorite" or simply second-best. always asking myself "should i push myself even harder? do even more? how can i win that desired position of most loved?" and sure, i believe that these issues may simply be the product of my own insecurity (or the result of being an only child) but whatever the reason, it's how i feel, who i am, and by god i'm not changing. so i am strictly a monogamous kind of girl. my relationships consist of two people and no more.

 

[daisie]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the relationship that the multiple submissives can and often do have with one another.

I love submitting to men, but not to women. Were I in a BDSM relationship with a Dominant, I would talk with him beforehand about my eventual wish for a submissive sister, because I am bisexual.

D

 

[ammre]

To each their own... if it is what you enjoy than go for it.
I personally like it when i know a person is passionate about me and me alone to seek out me and make me THEIRS. and in my spectrum of feelings i can only truely feel that way for one person at a time.
I wish i could say that jealousy does not dwel in my soul, but it does. i get really attached to things... and as much as i'd like to say i'm not insecure... that too i am. I'm also horrible controling... Sounds really odd for someone who likes to be submissive right? but it's there and if me and my dom are monogamous and open with eachother there will never have to be a place for jealiousy or insecurity to set in...

if only i could live in your world and in your mind frame... but i can't and i don't... and it's better that way.. who wants people who all think alike... the world would be boring.

 

[Ebonyfire]

- but I do have to admit they were very well-adjusted individuals who seemed to worry less than the average person. In fact, many times I was, well, okay I gotta say it - I was jealous! Okay, maybe envious would be a better word!

Well I do not know if I am well adjusted or just pragmatic.

I look at it this way. What will jealousy accomplish? For Me nothing. And I can't see myself giving that person that much power over my emotions, when I am supposed to be in charge.

Besides, being poly I always have someone else around.

 

[FungiUg]

Who? Jealous? Me?

I don't get jealous. Never have. I've no idea why, it's just not an emotion I've felt.

I've felt angry, hurt, bewildered, envious, and so on. But not jealous. When my ex-wife and I broke up, one of the comments she made was that she wished I were jealous even a little, because that way she would have felt more desired. Of course, her next lover was insanely jealous, and she ran screaming from that relationship! Sometimes it pays not to get what you ask for... *chuckle*

My current relationship, she knew that I liked open relationships before we got involved. Of course, it's only now that we have introduced D/s that we have been talking about adding a third person to the relationship -- a subbie we can share.

People change, relationships change to match, and communication is an ongoing thing. So I imagine it's not uncommon to get involved in a monogamous relationship, and then later find that one of the partners wants more.

Welcome to the wonderful world of human beings!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Who? Jealous? Me?

I When my ex-wife and I broke up, one of the comments she made was that she wished I were jealous even a little, because that way she would have felt more desired.

I am glad you mentioned that. I have found that sometimes when your lover finds out you are not jealous, they will either hold it against you by saying you do not care, cause if you did you would be jealous, or they go to great lengths to do things that they think will get a jealous reaction out of you.

Strange...

 

[James G 5]

When I was with Mistress, I knew I was not to be the only one in her life. Because of my insecurities about myself (which she was trying to help me overcome) I sometimes felt pangs of hurt when others were around. I knew she was polyamorous, and I accepted it.

We were all made to feel comfortable around each other, never to just "deal with it." If other Dom/mes or subs were around, I did my best to live up to her faith in my abilities and not to disrespect her in any way. My foremost purposed in being there was her happyness.

I hope I'm explaining this coherently.

You did pretty good sweetie
at living it AND describing it
((((( Wyn )))))

 

[James G 5]

I had an interesting conversation with a gay male Dom friend of mine one time
I asked him why there was so much more acceptance and openess in the Gay community for things like the leather life and crossdressing and many other things that heteros engage in but trend to be MUCH more uptight & closeted about
He responded that, having made the choice to admit to themselves and society (and he wasn't sure which was harder) it became much harder & even less desireable to lie about or hide any aspect of his sexuality to themselves or others, so why should they try to hide being Leather? Society couldn't revile them MORE.


How is this sanguine to this thread?

Well, (and I know I am opening up a can of worms here), IMHO, monogamy is not normal or healthy, or for most people attainable OR sustainable
The main force behind the maintaining of monogamy in this day and age is a sort of social inertia that holds old & wrong-headed ideas about relationships in place

People who take the full time step in to the Leather life have distanced themselves fromt eh mainstream & entered in to a zone that's socially "wrong", according to many

Having made this step, why not go all the way & incorporate a healthy love of multiple partners in to their lives?
Multi relationships often work like a pack with an Alpha and then a group of others, given the BDSM dynamic this seems to work well

This is my best answer to the question from the first post of WHY so many people in the lifestyle seem to want this sort of dynamic

As for the jealousy thing..........it's an unnatural & unhealthy LEARNED emotional response that tend to be attached to the idea of love, usually to the detriment of that love
It's not all about insecurity either
If you can find "The Ethical Slut" there's a GREAT chapter on jealousy that talks about it & why it's so wrong

BTW, for those who crave monogamy & can make it work, more power to you, you're more than welcome to go your own way & I won't scorn it....just because *I* think it's unnatural doesn't mean I think it's WRONG and if you can walk that hard road, I admire you
I just know I've tried it & I know its not for me........nor is it for most other people, but unfortunately they either try it & live miserably or try it & FAIl miserably. I wish you luck.

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Who? Jealous? Me?

When my ex-wife and I broke up, one of the comments she made was that she wished I were jealous even a little, because that way she would have felt more desired. Of course, her next lover was insanely jealous, and she ran screaming from that relationship! Sometimes it pays not to get what you ask for... *chuckle*

I can relate to this on some levels. I once dated a man for 7 years who simply did not get jealous. At first, I would spend an incredible amount of time and energy trying to "make" him get jealous. (Okay, so I was 22, what can I say?) Finally, it seeped into my brain that it was just the way he was, end of story. And I got very used to it.

When that relationship ended (for things other than jealousy!), I eventually met what was to be my first Dom. I found out very quickly and early that he was extremely jealous. It didn't help that for 7 years I had basically done as I pleased, flirted who I wanted with, etc, and now I felt accountable for every move. Some horrific fights ensued, which were terrible! On many levels that relationship was so very satisfying, but the jealousy thing really was one of the things that ended it for me.

And I hadn't even been looking for some one who got jealous!

 

[Shadowsdream]

Sorry, to disagree, but I don't. Jealousy is not in my lexicon. No one is worth it.

agreed!

 

[Shadowsdream]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the relationship that the multiple submissives can and often do have with one another.

I love submitting to men, but not to women. Were I in a BDSM relationship with a Dominant, I would talk with him beforehand about my eventual wish for a submissive sister, because I am bisexual.

D

My male slave craves a submissive sister to share O/our home with us. Someone to share tasks and enjoy life with at My feet.

 

[FungiUg]

Societised responses

I partially agree with the earlier comment that monogamy is a societal thing, not a natural human response.

However, societal pressures aren't to be ignored. They have developed over time as a way to address the need for people to live together without going crazy and killing each other. They're not perfect, but they're better than anarchy.

In the last 50 years, we've seen a lot of ingrained societal influences start to change, and in this day and age, it pays to make up your own mind. But for most people, monogamy still works. It's largely about peer and economic factors.

Which is a shame, because I think Robert A. Heinlein's concept of line marriages would be way more stable as family and economic units! Ah well, we may yet get there.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I can't be in a relationship again that involves others. This has been a painful time.

 

[Justina123]

A PLUS side of an open relationship

Neither Sir nor I are youngsters- both late forties. When we met, he had considerably more experience in the "lifestyle" than I did, and many friends within it, both doms and subs. Early on, we talked about the fact that he has two subs for whom he acts as "protector" and with whom he occasionally plays as well, and other subs with whom he has over the years played occasionally..

One of the things I really like about Sir is his huge sense of loyalty and caring towards his friends amd towards many of these subs, and his complete, unabashed openness about it. Rather than a problem, I find it a turn on that he has such a large capacity to give- because when he spends time with me or any sub, the giving is definitely a two way street. He is not trying to develop a harem (although I know he did enjoy one party where he brought both I and another sub, chained together, ha!), but it is simply part of his personality to maintain many varied relationships.

I do know that I am "first' in his affections, I guess you would say, but I do not have to be "only", in fact, if I were, He would be a different person and perhaps not the same person I have fallen so hard for!

-justina