The Ronald Reagan America Does Not Want To See

[Peregrinator]

Would the distillation process involve boiling the fucker alive? Cos I'm right up for that. I'll carry firewood and coal and stuff.

That bad, huh? You think he's a witch?

 

[Sean]

That bad, huh? You think he's a witch?

That would be his missis.

 

[wazhazhe]

That's interesting. The guy who posts here as "atmas" saw him debate someone once, too. It wasn't Liddy, but it was some other notoriously conservative type. I never even knew who he was until after he died.

I remembered Liddy from Watergate. I had pretty much forgotten about him when in 1995 I heard a news brief about the bombing of a government building in Oklahoma City. My then gf worked in a building that housed the state appellate courts and I couldn't get through to her by phone, so I started scanning the radio for news. I came across Liddy's radio show and he was intimating the militia movement (remember them from the 90's?) was behind the bombing and calling all the groups to take up arms in defense of an expected government retaliation. He sounded even nuttier than when I saw him debate Hoffman. Oh, it turne3d out it wasn't the ex-gf's building but she knew a number of people who dies in the bombing.

 

[tim66]

I dont think America has had a great president since FDR. Greatness would have required a president to recognize the problem created by dependence on oil from the Middle East. Instead of creating a military large enough to control those resources a great president would have challenged America to become energy independent. Where would America be today if instead of the wasted effort of going to the barren Moon those resources had been applied to achieving energy independence based on alternative energy? America's leaders since FDR have exhibited a noted lack of vision and leadership. Access to affordable energy is essential for economic growth and strategic security. Every other issue is either created by our dependence on foreign oil or is insignificant in comparison. It has been THE issue requiring presidential leadership. Unfortunately like slavery from 1820 to 1860 US leaders found it easier not to solve that issue either. Failure to resolve that issue through political means meant that 600,000 Americans had to die to resolve the issue. It will probably take major American casualties again to solve this problem because politicians cant seem to find the courage or imagination to solve the problem.

 

[Peregrinator]

I remembered Liddy from Watergate. I had pretty much forgotten about him when in 1995 I heard a news brief about the bombing of a government building in Oklahoma City. My then gf worked in a building that housed the state appellate courts and I couldn't get through to her by phone, so I started scanning the radio for news. I came across Liddy's radio show and he was intimating the militia movement (remember them from the 90's?) was behind the bombing and calling all the groups to take up arms in defense of an expected government retaliation. He sounded even nuttier than when I saw him debate Hoffman. Oh, it turne3d out it wasn't the ex-gf's building but she knew a number of people who dies in the bombing.

In a rant on politics in the US, Dennis Miller says, twice, "G Gordon Liddy, SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

I tend to agree. He's a total whackjob. I read a review of the Hummer by him--maybe it was in Car and Driver mag?--and he talked about driving it around the White House to spook Clinton. What an asshole.

I meant I didn't know who Hoffman was until after he died.

 

[MisterEdMe]

Whoa! Someone enlighten me on this and I'll search the web at a later time:

Gordan Liddy. I have seen, been around, or heard his name since the Watergate scandal (I was just a kid then). Never really absorbed or paid close attention to his actions. What's with all the "on again, off again " media attention on him? It seems to dissappear faster than it starts.

 

[Peregrinator]

Liddy is like a constant sore tooth to normal people; usually they ignore it, but when there's nothing else going on, they bitch about it.

 

[wouldloveto]

I dont think America has had a great president since FDR. Greatness would have required a president to recognize the problem created by dependence on oil from the Middle East. Instead of creating a military large enough to control those resources a great president would have challenged America to become energy independent. Where would America be today if instead of the wasted effort of going to the barren Moon those resources had been applied to achieving energy independence based on alternative energy? America's leaders since FDR have exhibited a noted lack of vision and leadership. Access to affordable energy is essential for economic growth and strategic security. Every other issue is either created by our dependence on foreign oil or is insignificant in comparison. It has been THE issue requiring presidential leadership. Unfortunately like slavery from 1820 to 1860 US leaders found it easier not to solve that issue either. Failure to resolve that issue through political means meant that 600,000 Americans had to die to resolve the issue. It will probably take major American casualties again to solve this problem because polticians cant seem to find the courage or imagination to solve the problem.

In our current political system, it would be 'sudden death' for any candidate to actually come up with a rational solution to the problem.

What most people hope for is a Ronald Reagan type that makes everyone feel good while still raping the rest of the world and keeping us in the death spiral that we are in.

 

[John Doe]

Diddo. Hey buddy. Long time no see. I think you are really gonna enjoy 'wouldloveto'.

Okay.

 

[MisterEdMe]

Liddy is like a constant sore tooth to normal people; usually they ignore it, but when there's nothing else going on, they bitch about it.

So, I guess he's not worth talking about?

 

[~hellbaby~]

Accomplishments During the1981-1989 Reagan Administration
I'm not saying this to belittle President Reagan in any way, I'm saying it because some of your statements are misleading at best.

1. President Reagan's economic policies stimulated the economy, creating 17 million new jobs. One-fourth of the new jobs were created in 68 consecutive months. Black unemployment was cut in half. It was actually closer to 20 million jobs

2. We were given incentives to save our money, to work, and to invest because of Reagan's tax reforms.

3. The inflation rate decreased to less than 4.4%. Family income rose 12%.

4. We experienced the longest and strongest peacetime prosperity in the history of the nation.There are four presidents who were consecutive two term peacetime presidents. Reagan and Clinton were the only two term peace time presidents in the 20th century, that is as long as you do not consider the interventions of Grenada and Bosnia hostile action. Since they are the only 2 interventions and two term presidents in the 20th century, we'll let that go.
The other two are Monroe and Grant. Grant is considered to be one of the worse presidents in history. I don't know how you would compare the economic prosperity when there is a gap of over a century between the fifth president and the 40th one but go ahead.
Due to this, I would look at it from a 20th century perspective instead. At the time he took office, Reagan was the only president to serve two consecutive peacetime terms, so naturally he was the best.

5. We experienced the best peacetime relationship with the Soviet Union in our history. We saw the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan( without boycotting the Olympics).Reagan called the USSR an Evil Empire and bankrupted Moscow to get them out of Afghanistan.

6. Regan drew the line in Grenada, Libya, Afghanistan, and the Persian Gulf, and no countries have fallen to communism during the Reagan era. He had deep convictions on this, however he did so by suppling terrorists with arms

7. The U.S. military was refurbished and strengthened.

8. We have seen a return to traditional values. Under Reagan, we have seen a cut in federal funding of abortions; emphasis on a strong family unit; and the development of family-oriented public policy. Your opinion that cuts to abortion policies are a good thing are irrelavant. So, as you see that as good, others may not. The same holds true for massive cuts to Education, along with cuts to medicade and welfare

9. Educational leaders are now working to sustain moral values and reestablish a clear understanding of right and wrong. The need for values in the curriculum has been trumpeted by the Reagan administration.
Translation: The religious right, through this administration's 'Faith Based Initiative" and preferential whitehouse treatment (see threads on topic)hope to turn the country into a (literal meaning) Bible based society. Meaning that every word in the bible is to be taken at face value as unquestionable fact. How do you put 'values' into cirruculum? I'm not sure I get that.
10. People from other nations are flocking to America to follow our example. Our principles of civil and economic freedom are now being copied all over the world. You are Right, illegal immigration is an enormous problem. What does that have to do with Reagan?

America Just Prior to the Reagan Administration

1. Seven million Americans were unemployed.

2. We were told to live on less, to buckle our belts and to prepare for scarcity. How else would you suggest a depression be handled?

3. Americans went through two of the worst years of inflation in 60 years. There was a 13% inflation rate. Family income dropped and we had the highest tax bill in our history.

4. We were on the verge of a major recession.
We were in one

5. With our cold wars during the '70s, we inspired our enemies not to be afraid of us. The Soviets refused to come to the bargaining table. Cultural exchanges between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. came to a halt. What, we went to the opra together before that?

6. Disarmament was considered a noble goal. We did not know where to draw the line in our negotiations with the Soviets. Three countries fell to communism under the Carter administration: Benin (1977), Nicaragua (1979), and Zimbabwe (1980).

7. Guns and tanks that did not even work were being sent to battle. They still are

8. Young Americans were not allowed to pray in school ... even though Congress, every state house, and the Supreme Court begins business with prayer. YOUNG STUDENTS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PRAY IN PUBLIC SCHOOL!!!!!!!

9. Progressive values became fashionable. Social policies emulated the values of a small, vocal minority.

10. Education did not sustain moral values. Educational curricula began to promote "alternative lifesyles," such as homosexuality. You are full of shit, education never promoted homosexuality. Where did you get this shit Renew America or the Christian coalition website?

11. America wore a "kick me" sign on its back. We lost our edge in technology and in global markets due to exces sive government regulation, and high taxes which devoured capital.I'm not even going there........

Two term Presidents
George Washington: 1789, 1792
Thomas Jefferson: 1800, 1804
James Madison: 1808, 1812
***James Monroe: 1816, 1920
Andrew Jackson: 1828, 1832
Abraham Lincoln: 1860, 1864
***Ulysses Grant: 1868, 1872
Grover Cleveland: 1884, 1892
William McKinley: 1896, 1900
Woodrow Wilson: 1912, 1916
Dwight Eisenhower: 1952, 1956
Richard Nixon: 1968, 1972
**Ronald Reagan: 1980, 1984
***Bill Clinton: 1992, 1996

 

[~hellbaby~]

Bush bashing? There's plenty of other threads for that. This is the thread where we remember what a senile tool Reagan was.

What did Ronald Reagan have that Bill Clinton didn't have?




An ex-wife.

This from the one who says be nice to the dead 'eh?

 

[~hellbaby~]

Saying faux-cutesy things like "bliar" doesn't contribute to rational discourse.

And it is moronic to suggest that the main goal of the U.S. in Iraq was to kill children.

Exactly, we only kill the kids who mess with the oil.
DISCLAIMER: sarcastic comment, not to be taken seriously.

 

[~hellbaby~]

[off topic] Speaking of Abby Hoffman reminds me of the time, as an undergrad, I was present at a "debate" between Abby Hoffman and G. Gordon Liddy. It was low-brow comic theater at its best. [/off topic]

*off topic* I smoked a joint with Abby Hoffman and Paul Kantner backstage at a Jefferson Starship concert in NY at the Dr Pepper music pier in the early 80's
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/psylosmilies/punk-kiffa.gif

 

[wazhazhe]

*off topic* I smoked a joint with Abby Hoffman and Paul Kantner backstage at a Jefferson Starship concert in NY at the Dr Pepper music pier in the early 80's
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/psylosmilies/punk-kiffa.gif

Cool! I am SO jealous.

Actually, I would like to have met Hoffman in person. He seemed like he might have been fun to hang with.

 

[~hellbaby~]

Cool! I am SO jealous.

Actually, I would like to have met Hoffman in person. He seemed like he might have been fun to hang with.

He lived very close to me. I was only 17 when I met him so I didn't know too much about him other than he tried to drop acid in Tricia Nixon's tea or something like that.

 

[The Mutt]

On another tangent, Nancy was well known in Hollywood for sucking a mean dick.

(Seriously.)

She sucked John Wayne? He was one mean dick.

 

[Purple Haze]

The Reagan Administration's policies were instrumental in the research and development of crack cocaine...

 

[Purple Haze]

Let's not forget about Old Ronnie helping out his buddy, Saddam. He needed weapons to fight Iran, he didn't know Ronnie was also arming Iran, double-dipping for lack of a better term.

And then there's Osama.

Yeah, let's put the fucker on Mt. Rushmore...

 

[landslider2000]

Reagan was like Truman -- appreciated more in retrospect than during his presidency.

As for the war in Iraq being about oil and killing babies, a drunk in a bar would have a more nuanced appraisal.

 

[Peregrinator]

So, I guess he's not worth talking about?

I would never shut down a conversation. I meant he flies beneath the radar most of the time. The man is provocative and annoying, and generally so far from rational that it's hard to take him seriously. Just my opinion is all.

 

[Purple Haze]

Reagan was like Truman -- appreciated more in retrospect than during his presidency.

The longer Bush II is President, the better Reagan looks...

 

[cliffchuff]

The longer Bush II is President, the better Reagan looks...

http://www.ugandandiscussions.co.uk/covers/1141_big.jpg

 

[Gringao]

Let's not forget about Old Ronnie helping out his buddy, Saddam. He needed weapons to fight Iran, he didn't know Ronnie was also arming Iran, double-dipping for lack of a better term.

We sent Iraq fuck-all. If you want to know who armed Saddam, take a look at the Russians, Chinese, French, Germans, Brazilians, British...there is a veritable army of weapons vendors ahead of the US in arming Saddam. But that doesn't fit the pre-set conclusion, does it, nutball?

 

[tim66]

Reagan was like Truman -- appreciated more in retrospect than during his presidency.

I dont think so. Reagan was popular most of the time he was in office. Truman was not. Reagan was a cheerleader who told Americans that we were great. That is what Americans wanted. Reagan did not take on the BIG strategic, economic and environmental issue of foreign oil dependence. He was one of many presidents to ignore the 500lb gorilla in the room. That is the nature of a supposed free market economy. By the time its leaders identifies a problem as real it is too late to fix without major hurt to many people. They wait and wait for the market to solve the problem. Adam Smith is not a cureall. If his philosphy was there would be no need for any govt. In the coming years there will probably be lots of wars with death and destruction due to countries trying to control oil supplies. There will be many more deaths and destruction from global warming. Historians will look back on this time and in reference to the US leadership use the quote that "As Nero fiddled Rome burned". Reagan was a spokesperson or salesman selling the American dream he was not a leader. Leadership is recognizing a problem and getting your followers to voluntarily do the hard things to solve the problem. Reagan did not ask Americans to do the hard things. He said go out and spend money, have a good time. and feel good about yourself.