The other side of the jealousy coin

[serijules]

I've been thinking about jealousy lately.

I have thought out, discussed, obsessed over and shared my thoughts on jealousy many times over the years that I've been involved in BDSM. However, it hit me today that I've only ever really thought about my OWN jealousy and how to handle it, what triggers it, when it is ok, etc.

Recently, a weird feedback email I got on my website basically flat out told me that the author was jealous of me and my relationship and resented my writing (why they continue to read it is beyound me, but that's another thread). This email made me feel, well...terrible. I've never thought about being the object of someone's jealousy before.

Part of me wants to make it better, oddly enough. To make them feel better, to reassure them, even though I'm very angry at someone being shallow enough to flat out tell me that my happiness and my talent makes them feel bad when it has nothing to do with them whatsoever. My website is all about me and my emotions and my feelings and my experiences. I never include or mention anyone else by name without their consent.

It also kind of made me want to put a password on my site and not allow anyone in that I think my words could even remotely hurt in some manner. It made me feel like I should censor myself, which in turn angered me because I am just as entitled to displaying my feelings as anyone else is and I resent being made to feel otherwise (although logically I realize that the only one that can really *make* me feel anything is myself).

It also got me thinking about a friendship that was ruined over jealousy. A long time friend of both mine and D's was jealous when we got together, got angry with me when I tried to talk about it with her and no longer talks to me. In this situation, I don't feel at all like fixing it or making her feel better, but rather I really resent her for being so selfish and no longer want anything to do with her.

Why would I feel more sympathy towards a complete annonymous (and rather childish) stranger and feeling nothing but resentment towards a long time friend, when both are displaying issues of jealousy towards me?

How do you all feel or handle it when others are jealous of you?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can empathise with you in this situation as I have had a few occasions when people, some known and some just online, have said that perhaps we should not act so happy with each other, should downplay our bliss etc. At first I was shocked as it seems you were, but then I thought about it, thought about all I had been through in my life and relationships to get to this point, and why someone would resent or be jealous of another's happiness. Throughout the years of being alone myself I was always happy and felt hope when I saw others who found their bliss, not resentment or jealousy.

Perhaps the answer lies in the character of the person and their approach to life. You can sit back and envy others for having what you wish you had, or you can take heart from it and begin to look to what you need to make your own bliss and how to be proactive in doing something about it. It can come knocking on your door unexpectedly, but those times are rare and more the stuff of fairy tales than reality, not to mention if you answer the door in a drab sack, dreary expression and a load of complaints any opportunity that comes knocking more than likely will just keep on going.

Bottom line is I came to a point where I realised I was not the problem, I should not after so long alone have to pretend I am not happy and apologise for finding someone who makes me as happy as I do him. Those who are jealous of your happiness are not likely to ever find their own because they are too focused on negativity and feeling the world owes them and they don't have to do a thing to make their own destiny what they want. Nothing you can do will change their positon, and no doubt you are not the only focus for their discontent. If they want a relationship like you have, they need to do something toward making it happen, not blame you for being happy. Enjoy your bliss as life is too short and unpredictable to spend agonising over feeling you have made someone miserable through living your own life which is completely unrelated and seperate to theirs....you did not personally hurt them, they do it to themselves. Do you think they would feel concern over you if you didn't have a relationship as you have? Do you think they would be sad if it ended? I suspect not.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I've been thinking about jealousy lately.

I have thought out, discussed, obsessed over and shared my thoughts on jealousy many times over the years that I've been involved in BDSM. However, it hit me today that I've only ever really thought about my OWN jealousy and how to handle it, what triggers it, when it is ok, etc.

Recently, a weird feedback email I got on my website basically flat out told me that the author was jealous of me and my relationship and resented my writing (why they continue to read it is beyound me, but that's another thread). This email made me feel, well...terrible. I've never thought about being the object of someone's jealousy before.

Part of me wants to make it better, oddly enough. To make them feel better, to reassure them, even though I'm very angry at someone being shallow enough to flat out tell me that my happiness and my talent makes them feel bad when it has nothing to do with them whatsoever. My website is all about me and my emotions and my feelings and my experiences. I never include or mention anyone else by name without their consent.

It also kind of made me want to put a password on my site and not allow anyone in that I think my words could even remotely hurt in some manner. It made me feel like I should censor myself, which in turn angered me because I am just as entitled to displaying my feelings as anyone else is and I resent being made to feel otherwise (although logically I realize that the only one that can really *make* me feel anything is myself).

It also got me thinking about a friendship that was ruined over jealousy. A long time friend of both mine and D's was jealous when we got together, got angry with me when I tried to talk about it with her and no longer talks to me. In this situation, I don't feel at all like fixing it or making her feel better, but rather I really resent her for being so selfish and no longer want anything to do with her.

Why would I feel more sympathy towards a complete annonymous (and rather childish) stranger and feeling nothing but resentment towards a long time friend, when both are displaying issues of jealousy towards me?

How do you all feel or handle it when others are jealous of you?

I have a few friends who are to varying degrees. They'd rather I were with them than with M.

I never really know what to do about it, but I certainly won't password protect my life and I don't think you should remotely entertain the idea.

Basically as long as these friends can play nicely and not pressure me or make me uncomfortable about it, I don't discuss it. You can't control their emotions, only they can. And they need to be responsible for said emotions, not dump that on you, which it seems this person does. I'd be a bit creeped out, I always am, when people assume emotional ties with me who don't know me...it's creepy.

 

[graceanne]

The only person I know who's even COULD be jealous is K, and it doesn't happen. As he put it once, when some guy asked me to dance, that he's not worried about me leaving with someone else. Or even ENTERTAINING the idea. The truth is that other men make me very uncomfortable. I can't even SIT by another guy - at church we sit on the aisle so it won't happen, etc.

If someone else was jealous of me, that'd just freaken creep me out. I'm sorry - but if you don't like soemone's writing or whatever you just don't read it. The fact that this person keeps reading your stuff, even though s/he doesn't like it IS CREEPY.

 

[Quint]

Psych-speaking now...

Their perception of you is their problem. It's not in your control, nor should you feel any responsibility or guilt. That's their baggage. You control your actions, they control their reactions. Don't let yourself get trapped into feeling like you should sacrifice your happiness to somehow make their unhappiness less; even if that actually worked, it's not right. I guess taking their comment as a back-handed compliment would work...regardless, please don't let this childish reaction get to you. I think you have a fabulous relationship and I do wish that mine would support multiple partners in an equally successful way, but I'm secure enough in myself and my relationship that I'm not about to blame you for whatever may be lacking in mine. That's really irrational and unfair, and it just comes down to not owning MY life. Which I do. So nyaah to those other jerks.

 

[La Kajira]

Nyah to those other jerks sums it up for me.

I have had to deal with jealousy, I'm not comfortable with it, I never know how to handle it. At some point, friend or not, you have to realize that it's THEIR problem, not yours. Don't ever let anyone or anything guilt into modifying the way you live your life.

In the long run, if they are really your friend, they'll get over it. If not, they probably never really were a real friend to start with.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Why would I feel more sympathy towards a complete annonymous (and rather childish) stranger and feeling nothing but resentment towards a long time friend, when both are displaying issues of jealousy towards me?

How do you all feel or handle it when others are jealous of you?

There is a vast difference between a close, longtime friend who places emphasis on their happiness above yours, and a complete stranger so desperate for love and attention, that they feel compelled to vent on someone they have never met. Maybe therein lies the answer you seek.

How do I handle it? My emotions can range from flattered, to pensive, to angered, to guilt. It all depends on the situation or person and what I feel their true motives to be when they express their jealousy.

 

[cati]

On jealousy

Have we swerved away from jealousy to envy?

My feelings on jealousy are as follows: It's the feeling I get when my Dom/husband ignores me as soon as we get to any social function. He's cruising and schmoozing the entire evening while I have sat there like a bump on a log. Sure I could tag along behind him, but I have the gut feeling he wants to be on his own. I feel humiliated, hurt, angry, fearful and extremely jealous if I see him chatting up another woman. The ladies are drawn to him, they drape themselves over him, they seek him out, they try to befriend me with hopes of getting closer to him. Its sickening. He hasn't a clue how things appear. He says he isn't responsible for how others behave. But I disagree wholeheartedly. My being his "owned"slave, he is responsible for my emotional welfare. There have been times when I have got up walked out, waited to see how long it took for him to realize that I'd gone.
I have come to realize that he has no idea how I feel and that he can't help being the way he is socially any more than I can help being somewhat shy and reserved in public.
Jealousy, they say is based on insecurity. I've never felt jealous before. I don't see myself as an insecure person, however there is something about our relationship that makes me feel this way.
Being the emotional masochist that I am.. after having it out with him and still hurt, furious and emotionally out of it... a side of me "hates" him for how this makes me feel, but the mascochist/sub/slave thrives on it and badly wants to be better in everyway, for him, for me...to show those other subs whose the "bosslady". It (being jealous) invigorates me in some perverted way. Painful and invigorating at the same time.
Weird eh.. I didn't mention looks or personality for a reason..as it isn't the point Im trying to make.
Good topic eh: "emotional masochism" is it directly related to "being humiliated"?
...any input?

 

[sincerely_helene]

Have we swerved from jealousy to envy?

Ha! I was just thinking that.

 

[cati]

an afterthought on jealousy.

Just an afterthought on my previous post...

I've made my partner sound like a jerk and that wasn't my intent. I firmly believe he is so used to doing what he does that he is oblivious to my situation. It's up to me to understand his social style. I can find people to talk to and mingle as well. If we are involved in a "gathering" I try to find something to do, keep myself busy etc. I know he wants me beside him when he schmoozes.
We have talked about this many times and he has improved (will drop in to see how I'm doing and so forth) I have tried to read every article under the sun on the subject (jealousy) to help myself get over this and reading does help, makes you reflect on your behaviour (your past) and why you feel the way you do. In the beginning I felt I had to do the submissive thing and sit quietly by my Master's side as necessary. Lord, but that can be so boring!
One thing I have asked of him is that we scene or have sex before going to an outing, then my "need" has been met, I feel secure and that I'm connected to him. He isn't going to change, nor do I really want him to. It is to my benefit to overcome any insecurities that I may have right? Being mildly socio-phobic doesn't help either...smiles. cates

 

[Shadowedge]

hummmm...

I think I would have to agree with everyone else who has said that you are in no way responisble for other people's emotional reactions to you. I think in the same situation I would feel the same way you did.
A similar thing did happen to me, actually. My SO and I are poly, and have been since we started dating. A friend of mine from High School mentioned how easy it seemed for us, and that she was jelous of me. On one hand I put it down to ignorance, and pointed out that it only seemed easy, and it actually took a bunch of work on all of our parts, but on the other hand I felt really threatened by the implyed hostility to the fact that I was happy.

Change of subject!

On a slightly different note, I realized the other day that if SO was to have an affair with a man, especailly a gay man, I would feel far more threatened than I do when he fools around with other girls. I think this is because, (bi-sexual that I am) there is at least he possiblity of being envoved with a girl, but none with a gay man. (he's stright, so it's not likely to come up, but it did make me think.)

 

[FurryFury]

Tossing that coin...

When online people get jealous it really sucks for me. I am married. I am as restricted in RL as I ever want to be. So for people to want to restrict me online when my own husband doesn't that makes me mad.

I have had people make me feel like I was some heartless bitch because of that. I care about people a lot. I just don't do it exclusively in the online world.

Now on the other side of the coin.

Yes I have been jealous. I have been REALLY jealous and in a bad, bad way that my first husband fostered to help keep me insecure and under control. I did bad things then, including destroying personal property. Oh well, don't play with the green eyed monster if you don't want damage to your things, ass wipe!

Another toss kinda:

When my current husband and I just got started "dating", he mentioned maybe two or three months in, about a girl he loved who had died. He had no idea what that would do to me because of my past baggage.

Unlike my first husband he wasn't trying to make and keep jealous. He did most things right to keep me from feeling that way but...I still felt competitive. Yeah that's right, competitive with a dead girl. Now picture this I was somewhere between 5-6 months pregnant maybe more and he mentions that this girl liked to do it all sorts of places. After he talked about that it got me to thinking.

Insecurity again came into play as it often does with me. It made me want to try a LOT harder. Scenarios began popping up in my mind for locations we could do it in. You know, the sauna was out because getting overheated while carrying a baby is a danger.

Still I managed to come up with some places, I was on a mission! The pool in his apartment complex for instance was fun after midnight. We got caught. Another couple who seemed to have the same idea caught us.

I remember one memorable time on the stationary bike. There were lots of other ideas he found out I "suddenly" had.

Anyway, my point is this, people think all jealousy and insecurity is bad. I disagree. It can be bad but it can also be motivating for good things.

I suspect all these people I see writing in that their spouses don't have a sex drive, won't try new things and so on, might have mates who are a little too secure.

Me, I'm fucked up, I equate sex with connecting and caring, so I'm motivated. Shit falls down, we haven't had enough time, we went to a funeral, you have time off, I'm going to want to reconnect that way.

I know there is more to connecting and caring than just sex. Still the fundamental underlying need for that connection remains as well as baggage of insecurity despite all evidence that I should not have that and the occasional bout of jealousy.

Which is part of why I am not out fucking other people or adding people into our relationship to fuck even though he has given me his permission. I'm not sure I can handle it that well.

Oh and I wouldn't care if he fucked another man or a woman, Shadowedge. It's the connection forged I'd worry about regardless what sex he did it with.

Fury

 

[Shadowedge]

actually, Furryfury, I must say that you caught on to the important part of my particular insecurity. The idea of SEX the physical act doesn't bother me nearly as much as the idea of an intense emotional connection that I can't be involved in. (I think this may be the reason he is so skittish about me having sex with other men, come to think of it. )

I also here you when you talk about jelousy, (or something like it, ) being a motivating force to do more adventurous things. The problem is that right now I'm stuck trying to one up myself!

 

[FurryFury]

Hi Shadowedge!

I know what you mean. Sometimes it's good to take a step back from the one upping. That can be a lot of pressure that can actually take the fun out of things.

I agree the emotional bond can be more threatening than the physical act.

Fury

 

[serijules]

I've been struggling to reply again because I'm still a bit peeved about this whole thing. Logically, I realize I'm not responsible for anyone's happiness, and it IS creepy to affect someone I do not know on that level.

However, some of the people that display jealousy over my writing and stories are people close to me. This particularily upsets me because I don't want to write things that are going to hurt them, or share details that would make them feel bad, yet I don't want to feel like I shouldn't be sharing those details either. That part really makes me upset. The things I write about are MY experiences, and that is what I write about...my feelings, my experiences, etc. On my own territory no less, my website, my journal. I never name names without permission. I never share extremely private details without permission. *sigh* It's hard to not let something like this bother you when the people that are apparently feeling jealous or hurt are people you really care about.

I need to think about this awhile yet and just get over it I guess. Can't make everyone happy.

 

[FurryFury]

I've been struggling to reply again because I'm still a bit peeved about this whole thing. Logically, I realize I'm not responsible for anyone's happiness, and it IS creepy to affect someone I do not know on that level.

However, some of the people that display jealousy over my writing and stories are people close to me. This particularily upsets me because I don't want to write things that are going to hurt them, or share details that would make them feel bad, yet I don't want to feel like I shouldn't be sharing those details either. That part really makes me upset. The things I write about are MY experiences, and that is what I write about...my feelings, my experiences, etc. On my own territory no less, my website, my journal. I never name names without permission. I never share extremely private details without permission. *sigh* It's hard to not let something like this bother you when the people that are apparently feeling jealous or hurt are people you really care about.

I need to think about this awhile yet and just get over it I guess. Can't make everyone happy.

That is so true, you can't make everyone happy and sometimes you shouldn't even try. I told a story about that all week this week.

You have a right to share your experiences in my opinion. You aren't naming names and you are trying to be sensitive to those you care about. That should be a good thing.

*HUGS*

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

I've been struggling to reply again because I'm still a bit peeved about this whole thing. Logically, I realize I'm not responsible for anyone's happiness, and it IS creepy to affect someone I do not know on that level.

However, some of the people that display jealousy over my writing and stories are people close to me. This particularily upsets me because I don't want to write things that are going to hurt them, or share details that would make them feel bad, yet I don't want to feel like I shouldn't be sharing those details either. That part really makes me upset. The things I write about are MY experiences, and that is what I write about...my feelings, my experiences, etc. On my own territory no less, my website, my journal. I never name names without permission. I never share extremely private details without permission. *sigh* It's hard to not let something like this bother you when the people that are apparently feeling jealous or hurt are people you really care about.

I need to think about this awhile yet and just get over it I guess. Can't make everyone happy.

You definately can't seri, and perhaps though you care for these people, this is a sign your caring may be misplaced and not returned on the same level as I imagine if it were you in their position you would be happy for them, not nasty and mean spirited. As I said, life is too short, don't let others taint your happiness with their jealousy and censorship of your sharing.....perhaps they could just not read what you place there anymore if it is that big an issue for them.

Catalina

 

[cati]

On the trail of the "jealousy" demon

Something I read a while ago I would like to share with you.
Being what we are "human", we are in need of affection and tenderness, no matter what kind of relationship we are in. This article defined a scale of 1-10 for how many times per day we should be touched by our partners in order for us to feel "complete" and cared for. If we are receiving less than 10 displays of affection... could be a kiss, a hug, a smile, a swat on the bum, touch of the hand, whatever, then we are doing ok. If it becomes less than that, then our emotional reserves become depleted. We begin to feel neglected and unloved in a very short time. I would think that's when our insecurities, feelings of jealousy, envy etc. and all the other stuff rear their ugly heads.