The Middle Way

[REDWAVE]

OK, I'll take a break from politics for a while, and explore the path of mysticism a while. I hope the board's mystics (you know who you are!) all chime in, but that's up to them.

To me, the beginning of the path to enlightenment is contemplation of the Three Noble Truths set forth about 2500 years ago by the Gautama Buddha. The First is simply that suffering exists. This is sometimes stated (misstated, I think) as "Life is suffering." But that is imprecise, because life is not composed entirely of suffering. There is also joy, happiness, fun, pleasure, etc., as well as "grey" experiences, which are neutral-- neither positive or negative.

I'll continue further along this path later. Those who wish to walk with me are welcome to.

 

[just pet]

But life is suffering, as we age, sicken and die. Compassion for others, understanding their suffering becomes our own suffering.

 

[REDWAVE]

How true, just pet

Compassion is the key. Compassion is the jewel in the Buddha's lotus blossom.

 

[Ham Murabi]

OK, I'll take a break from politics for a while, and explore the path of mysticism a while. I hope the board's mystics (you know who you are!) all chime in, but that's up to them.

To me, the beginning of the path to enlightenment is contemplation of the Three Noble Truths set forth about 2500 years ago by the Gautama Buddha. The First is simply that suffering exists. This is sometimes stated (misstated, I think) as "Life is suffering." But that is imprecise, because life is not composed entirely of suffering. There is also joy, happiness, fun, pleasure, etc., as well as "grey" experiences, which are neutral-- neither positive or negative.

I'll continue further along this path later. Those who wish to walk with me are welcome to.

The fourth Noble Truth, espoused by the Guano Buttha, was that "AOL-Time-Warner" is suffering, but that it beats the shit out of having a date with Patty Perkins.

 

[breakwall]

The Zen Buddhist approach is Life is Craving.
The path to enlightenment is based on simplifying life, ridding yourself of those things which create barriers to that goal. Things such as lust and possessions. (He says as he sits in front of a thousand dollar computer on an erotica site)

Before enlightenment, cut wood and carry water. After enlightenment, cut wood and carry water.

 

[just pet]

Actually there are four Noble Truths: the truth of suffering, its origin, the path by which it is eradicated, and its cessation.

 

[REDWAVE]

I've heard it both ways

I've seen it sometimes stated as three, plus the eight-fold path, sometimes as four, just pet. Since you're obviously somewhat knowledgeable about Buddhism, how would you express and explain the Second Noble Truth?

 

[Ham Murabi]

The foreskin path is generally defined by the yellow spots on the rim of the toilet bowl.

 

[just pet]

The second Noble Truth deals with the origin of suffering.
According to the Buddha, because humans are always wishing for things to be different than they are, they suffer needlessly. Our self-centered desires cause us to become very attached to affairs or things as we want them rather than as they are. Based on attachment, resentment, dissapointment and anger, humans often behave in a manner that makes things worse for themselves or others.

 

[REDWAVE]

Tanha

The cause of suffering is tanha, in the original Pali-- best translated as grasping or craving. (It is sometimes translated as "desire," but again, I think that is inaccurate.) It is not wanting something, in and of itself, which causes suffering-- it is wanting that which is not reasonably attainable under the circumstances. Possessing material objects, and enjoying the company of other people (both carnally and otherwise), do not necessarily cause suffering, but rather attachment-- to things, people, emotions, ideas, etc.

The sage enjoys who and what there is to enjoy (and the who is far more important than the what), but does not crave for or grasp at anything. Freed from all attachment, he (or she) follows always the path of least resistance, the natural path. The Middle Way is neither the enslavement to the passions, nor the self-torture of agnosticism.

Query: Is the above true? Is not the underlying cause of suffering simply unfavorable conditions beyond our control?

 

[just pet]

I am not a teacher but only a simple practitioner. My practice is Tibetan Nyingmapa, Vajrayana tradition. My knowledge is limited. But I will offer what I understand. The deeper I go into practice, the less I know, and the more I understand.

The issue is indeed attachment, as stated. Our attachment to the path of least resistance is an obstacle to understanding what is real, what is true. If we understand that all that we see and experience is an illusion, designed for our benefit, we can begin to lift the veils of the dream world we live in. In our dreams at night (unless addicted to Lit), we are positive that the experience is real, palpable. Yet when we awake, it is gone. "That was a deram." Yet, our "awake" state is just as a dream. As we practice, detach from our hopes and fears and assumptions of what is true, we begin to truly awaken. It is hard work, with many obstacles and challenges.

 

[just pet]

Re: Tanha

Is not the underlying cause of suffering simply unfavorable conditions beyond our control?

Isn't it all beyond our control? That is our downfall and folly, that frightened need to put all our ducks in a row.

As one struggles to detach, one becomes more connected. How often do we fail in relationships because of our unmet expectations by our partners. We write a script of what we think we want, need, desire based on what we "know" to be true. It's never exactly as we planned so we are never truly happy with it. Even if we get what we want, we are afraid of losing it. It is notthe person we love. It is our construction of what we want that person to be.

We'll leave karma out of the picture for the time being.

 

[REDWAVE]

Excellent, O Bodhisattva!

You seem to be doing pretty well, just pet. My knowledge is limited also. In fact, my understanding of Buddhism and mysticism comes mainly from Teachings of the Buddha, edited by Jack Kornfield. But there is a lot of wisdom in that slender volume.

You touch upon another huge subject: that of Maya, the Veil of Illusion. Is all an illusion, or is it partly an illusion and partly real? And what does it mean to be "real"? What is reality?

Well, I don't know, but I do know that the most basic and essential feature of reality is that it is constantly changing. It is always in a state of flux and transition. As Heracleitus, the ancient Greek philosopher, said: "All things are a flowing."

 

[just pet]

I have the advantage of great teachers, here in Los Angeles, and in India and Nepal. Books I highly recommend are:

1. The Tibetan Book of the Dead
2. The Words of My Perfect Teacher by Patrul Rinpoche
3. Gates to Buddhist Practice by Chagdud Tulku

There is a sense of realism to the substantive world, as in the "reality" the computers we type on.
I apologize for my ignorance and lack of knowledge, but the discussion needs to turn to perception and what are termed the Four Obscurations.

Perceptions are that which appear in the eyes of each individual according to his (leave me out of PC) tendencies or spiritual development. There are three types of perception:

1. Deluded perceptions which arise from misunderstanding. This applies to all beings in what is termed the six realms (another discussion... essentially the six modes of existence caused by mental poisons of anger, miserliness, ignorance, desire, jealousy and pride). Man, by the way is dominated by desire, the animals by ignorance. These perceptions are called the impure deluded perceptions of the universe and beings.

2. The perceptions of interdependence, that of the bodhisattvas

3. And then there are the authentic, perfect perceptions of wisdom; when one has realized the natural state of everything.

What prevents our having authentic perceptions are partly a matter of Four Obscurations (which veil our Buddha nature). These are:

1. negative emotions:

a.bewilderment including ignorance and confusion
b. attachment, desire
c. aversion including hatred and anger
d. jealousy
e. pride

2. karmic obscurations, (karma literally meaning action but implies a result based on past actions)
3. conceptional obscurations
4. obscurations of habitual tendencies, ie, habitual patterns of thought, speech, or actions created by what one has done in the past and in past lives

So, we then must work to eliminate our obstacles and move aside obscurations to realize our true Buddha nature.

The concept of change is constant. In Chinese Taoist philosophy, it is this change that governs the universe. The I Ching is the Book of Changes. And it is consulted to shed light on how to cope with these changes. It is a matter of Balance, Yin/Yang, red and white Bodhichitta, Daka and Dakini

 

[SINthysist]

u r a hater
u spew too much hate and communism to follow buddha
buddha pukes on your sandals

 

[SINthysist]

I recommend the Dao of Pooh...

 

[SINthysist]

Re: Excellent, O Bodhisattva!

My knowledge is limited...

Agreed

 

[SINthysist]

Handicapped even one would say...

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Desire = suffering

 

[SINthysist]

Desire also equal progress.

Unless you like the grass hut thingy.

Personally, I don't want to live on the plain in a teepee. I like central air and notice that I suffer more without it.

 

[mbb308]

I may have missed it, but I did not see Fear referred to in this whole thread. I have seen it written that "the very fabric of our existence" is "shot through" with this "evil and corroding thread".

I have further seen it written that my failings of character are chiefly activated by Fear - specifically, fear of not getting that which I think I want, or of losing that which I believe I have.

My personal experience holds that these are both true.

Additionally, threats to my Basic Human Instincts of Security, Society, and Sex (and the related Fears of loss or non-acquisition) can cause me a lot of grief.

Simplifying my demands and dependence certainly minimizes the effects of Fear and its accompanying base responses.

 

[eagleyez]

I have the advantage of great teachers, here in Los Angeles, and in India and Nepal. Books I highly recommend are:

1. The Tibetan Book of the Dead
2. The Words of My Perfect Teacher by Patrul Rinpoche
3. Gates to Buddhist Practice by Chagdud Tulku

There is a sense of realism to the substantive world, as in the "reality" the computers we type on.
I apologize for my ignorance and lack of knowledge, but the discussion needs to turn to perception and what are termed the Four Obscurations.

Perceptions are that which appear in the eyes of each individual according to his (leave me out of PC) tendencies or spiritual development. There are three types of perception:

1. Deluded perceptions which arise from misunderstanding. This applies to all beings in what is termed the six realms (another discussion... essentially the six modes of existence caused by mental poisons of anger, miserliness, ignorance, desire, jealousy and pride). Man, by the way is dominated by desire, the animals by ignorance. These perceptions are called the impure deluded perceptions of the universe and beings.

2. The perceptions of interdependence, that of the bodhisattvas

3. And then there are the authentic, perfect perceptions of wisdom; when one has realized the natural state of everything.

What prevents our having authentic perceptions are partly a matter of Four Obscurations (which veil our Buddha nature). These are:

1. negative emotions:

a.bewilderment including ignorance and confusion
b. attachment, desire
c. aversion including hatred and anger
d. jealousy
e. pride

2. karmic obscurations, (karma literally meaning action but implies a result based on past actions)
3. conceptional obscurations
4. obscurations of habitual tendencies, ie, habitual patterns of thought, speech, or actions created by what one has done in the past and in past lives

So, we then must work to eliminate our obstacles and move aside obscurations to realize our true Buddha nature.

The concept of change is constant. In Chinese Taoist philosophy, it is this change that governs the universe. The I Ching is the Book of Changes. And it is consulted to shed light on how to cope with these changes. It is a matter of Balance, Yin/Yang, red and white Bodhichitta, Daka and Dakini

toss any coins this mornin...?

 

[eagleyez]

The second Noble Truth deals with the origin of suffering.
According to the Buddha, because humans are always wishing for things to be different than they are, they suffer needlessly. Our self-centered desires cause us to become very attached to affairs or things as we want them rather than as they are. Based on attachment, resentment, dissapointment and anger, humans often behave in a manner that makes things worse for themselves or others.

...grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change what i can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

that would be YES...

morninJP

 

[eagleyez]

u r a hater
u spew too much hate and communism to follow buddha
buddha pukes on your sandals

Ah SINonym...your such a charmer...

 

[just pet]

Re: Re: Tanha

I may have missed it, but I did not see Fear referred to in this whole thread.

As we practice, detach from our hopes and fears and assumptions of what is true, we begin to truly awaken. It is hard work, with many obstacles and challenges.

Isn't it all beyond our control? That is our downfall and folly, that frightened need to put all our ducks in a row.

... Even if we get what we want, we are afraid of losing it.

Perhaps you didn't notice these references...


but you have elucidated the point well.


We desire
We are afraid we will not get what we want
We get it
And fear we will lose it

Fear also prevents us from moving forward
And the fear is almost always an imaged threat