The Help America Vote Act would not "federalize elections"

[bellisarius]

Let me point out that there is NO constitutional 'right to vote.'

Should the various states allow popular vote for federal office (and they all do), the restrictions are few. The voter must be a citizen, be 18 years of age or older (by Constitutional amendment), and cannot be discriminated against by gender or race.

If, as many so think, that voting is a constitutional right then the several states that disallow convicted felons from voting without petitioning the courts for restoration of their rights could never stand. The same goes for 2nd amendment rights. Meaning that as long as a state conforms to the limitations set out in my first paragraph the various states DO have the right to'

1: Strip various individuals of their constitutional rights.

2. Set and enforce the rules under which an individual can vote, again within the rules set forth in my first paragraph.

The democrats can try to do what they want but the SCOTUS will most likely squash the legislation at the very first opportunity. I offer as evidence of that that it took an constitutional amendment to allow 18 year olds to vote. I can't see the court allowing a transient legislative body to do an end run on the Constitution.

 

[pecksniff]

Let me point out that there is NO constitutional 'right to vote.'

Not yet.

 

[Cubantripod]

States rights = free to be racists

Bobo's world

Did some states hide behind state's rights to push a racist agenda? Yes. That doesn't mean that anytime someone is advocating for state's rights, there is a racist motive behind it. That's flawed logic. Sometimes the Federal government overreaches.

 

[GothTalk]

That's not a true democracy then and it's. It a republic either. It's closer to an oligarchy.

I get that you feel that way.

But it is democracy, definitely so and the traditional American form of it.

"True democracy " is a nebulous bullshit term you're usung to qualify your preferred form of democracy as somehow more valid than American democracy.

Because anti-American comrade has to comrade.

 

[pecksniff]

Did some states hide behind state's rights to push a racist agenda? Yes. That doesn't mean that anytime someone is advocating for state's rights, there is a racist motive behind it. That's flawed logic. Sometimes the Federal government overreaches.

But it does mean that the motives should be suspected, and deeply scrutinized, of anybody who invokes "states' rights" for any reason.

Can't really recall the last time the federal government "overreached." Sometimes it makes mistakes, but there's never anything to suggest the states could have handled the matter better.

Remember Lind's Law: The further down you go in the federal-state-local hierarchy, the more ignorance, incompetence and corruption you will find.

 

[ll74]

I get that you feel that way.

But it is democracy, definitely so and the traditional American form of it.

"True democracy " is a nebulous bullshit term you're usung to qualify your preferred form of democracy as somehow more valid than American democracy.

True Democratic republic....any citizen has the right to representation guaranteed through their ability to vote.

That's what we are.

Traditions are nice too

 

[BidudeinWi]

I note a lot of RWs repeating that as an obvious fact. But, the Voting Rights Act did not federalize elections, which continued to be run by local officials, with some federal oversight, and some access to federal courts provided. How is the JLVRA any different?

Irrelevant! The Constitution is CLEAR who has authority to make election law! Hint: It’s NOT: Congress, Committee’s, Governors, Secretary’s of State, Judges etc! It’s ONLY State Legislature’s. The Constitution is NOT suspended during a healthcare crisis/emergency!

 

[GothTalk]

But it does mean that the motives should be suspected, and deeply scrutinized, of anybody who invokes "states' rights" for any reason.

No, it doesn't.

You're just a totalitarian control freak incapable of letting others live how they want to live.

 

[GothTalk]

True Democratic republic....any citizen has the right to representation guaranteed through their ability to vote.

That's what we are.

Traditions are nice too

The is no "true" democratic republic nor is it defined by open to any and all elections.

That is still you just trying to qualify your ideal as somehow more valid than American democracy.

Yes that is what we are and democrats have a serious problem with that, which is why they are so hellbent and had for chaging it. Because American democracy never has been totally open and unrestricted as Democrats think it should be.

 

[pecksniff]

No, it doesn't.

You're just a totalitarian control freak incapable of letting others live how they want to live.

Napoleon was a totalitarian control freak -- but France has never had cause to regret his decision to draw up a uniform national law code, supplanting the old system in which the law could vary drastically from one province to the next. Uniformity does have value.

 

[GothTalk]

Napoleon was a totalitarian control freak -- but France has never had cause to regret his decision to draw up a uniform national law code, supplanting the old system in which the law could vary drastically from one province to the next. Uniformity does have value.

Fascist agree with you 100% on that, still un-American control freak buuu shit.

 

[bellisarius]

The is no "true" democratic republic nor is it defined by open to any and all elections.

That is still you just trying to qualify your ideal as somehow more valid than American democracy.

Yes that is what we are and democrats have a serious problem with that, which is why they are so hellbent and had for chaging it. Because American democracy never has been totally open and unrestricted as Democrats think it should be.

Plato's "Republic" is, in fact, an anti-democratic treatise. It was an indictment of Cleisthenes and all that followed. On the other hand "Republic" wasn't flawless either. The founders were trying to find a balance. A Republic based on democratic underpinnings.

The US Federal-Republic was purposely designed to be ponderous and slow to react except in times of extreme stress or threat. So far, much to the chagrin of many, it's working just as designed.

 

[pecksniff]

Plato's "Republic" is, in fact, an anti-democratic treatise.

The title, He Politea, is perhaps better translated as "The Polity" or "The State." We probably owe "The Republic" to the Romans, who called their own state that.

 

[pecksniff]

The US Federal-Republic was purposely designed to be ponderous and slow to react except in times of extreme stress or threat.

You won't find a word to that effect in The Federalist Papers.

 

[GothTalk]

You won't find a word to that effect in The Federalist Papers.

They didn't have to spell out what is obviously by design.

 

[bellisarius]

They didn't have to spell out what is obviously by design.

They didn't try to 'dumb down' the language back then.

 

[pecksniff]

They didn't try to 'dumb down' the language back then.

No, they didn't -- and if the proposed government "was purposely designed to be ponderous and slow to react," Publius would have said so.

 

[GothTalk]

No, they didn't -- and if the proposed government "was purposely designed to be ponderous and slow to react," Publius would have said so.

The intentional checks on democracy at every turn and level they built into not obvious enough for you hua?

 

[pecksniff]

Fascist agree with you 100% on that, still un-American control freak buuu shit.

The French (except for a brief period during WWII) have never been fascists, but they still keep the national uniform Napoleonic Code, and there's no conceivable reason why they shouldn't. And non-uniformity has no more real value here than there.

 

[bellisarius]

No, they didn't -- and if the proposed government "was purposely designed to be ponderous and slow to react," Publius would have said so.

He did moron.

 

[pecksniff]

He did moron.

He talked about checks and balances, but nothing like what you're describing.

 

[bellisarius]

He talked about checks and balances, but nothing like what you're describing.

Checks and balances equals totalitarian edicts? What the fuck??????

Look out kid

 

[GothTalk]

The French (except for a brief period during WWII) have never been fascists, but they still keep the national uniform Napoleonic Code, and there's no conceivable reason why they shouldn't. And non-uniformity has no more real value here than there.

Authoritarian control freaks none the less.

And yes it's real value is in freedom, as an anti-American and authoritarian I realize you see no value in civil liberties, but being a liberal I very much do.

 

[pecksniff]

Authoritarian control freaks none the less.

And yes it's real value is in freedom, as an anti-American and authoritarian I realize you see no value in civil liberties, but being a liberal I very much do.

Freedom? We once, and not too long ago, had an America where some people were less free in some parts of the country than others -- the imposition of national uniformity on that point was a real advance for freedom.

 

[GothTalk]

Freedom? We once, and not too long ago, had an America where some people were less free in some parts of the country than others -- the imposition of national uniformity on that point was a real advance for freedom.

Yes it was, and as long as it's PRO LIBERTY I'm all for it.

The uniform totalitarian control freak shit?? You can go fuck yourself with that.