The Second Amendment for Dummies.

Chobham

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All sorts of opinions regarding the second amendment have been expressed on this board but the only opinions that count are those of the Supreme Court. Consequently I’m going to attempt to restrict this post to the relevant findings of the court.

District of Columbia v. Heller

Primary Holding

Private citizens have the right under the Second Amendment to possess an ordinary type of weapon and use it for lawful, historically established situations such as self-defense in a home, even when there is no relationship to a local militia.

New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen

Primary Holding

"When the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct [here the right to bear arms], the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. The government must then justify its regulation by demonstrating that it is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation. Only then may a court conclude that the individual's conduct falls outside the Second Amendment's "'unqualified command.'"

This means that the courts MUST use the historical text and tradition of the nation when evaluating second amendment cases. The previous evaluations utilized a ‘two step’ process that weighed in the “public good.” A process of evaluation that is NOT applied to any of the other Bill of Rights commandments.

The Militia

A great many of the wannabe gun grabbers latch on to the militia clause in the second amendment as an out, not so. Going back to the Militia Act of 1792 the militia is considered to be comprised of all able bodied white, male, citizens between the ages of 18 and 45. Subsequent amendments to the Constitution have rendered race and gender moot points. That act defined the individuals that MAY BE CALLED UP for militia duty. However as pointed out in Heller you need not be a member of a formal militia nor does the age definition prohibit individuals outside that age range from volunteering.

Militia

And for those that want to slog through a long winded treatise (Hamilton never avoided using 40 words when 10 would do) there is this.

Federalist 29

Weapons of War

Next comes the argument that a citizen should not be allowed to have a “weapon of war” in their possession. Of course the entire definition of ‘what is a weapon of war’ comes to the fore but it’s an argument that is essentially mental masturbation. Why? Because the Supreme Court has already spoken on that issue.

US v Miller (1939)

Miller was arrested having a sawed-off shotgun in his possession. Miller argued that the possession was protected by the second amendment, the court found otherwise. Justice McReynolds, writing for the majority had this to say;

“In the absence of any evidence tending to show that
possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less
than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some
reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency
of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second
Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such
an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice
that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military
equipment or that its use could contribute to the com-
mon defense.”

In other words the weapon in question was NOT suitable for military service. Quite clearly the court thought that ‘weapons of war’ were quite suitable.
 
All sorts of opinions regarding the second amendment have been expressed on this board but the only opinions that count are those of the Supreme Court. Consequently I’m going to attempt to restrict this post to the relevant findings of the court.

District of Columbia v. Heller

Primary Holding

Private citizens have the right under the Second Amendment to possess an ordinary type of weapon and use it for lawful, historically established situations such as self-defense in a home, even when there is no relationship to a local militia.

New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen

Primary Holding

"When the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct [here the right to bear arms], the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. The government must then justify its regulation by demonstrating that it is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation. Only then may a court conclude that the individual's conduct falls outside the Second Amendment's "'unqualified command.'"

This means that the courts MUST use the historical text and tradition of the nation when evaluating second amendment cases. The previous evaluations utilized a ‘two step’ process that weighed in the “public good.” A process of evaluation that is NOT applied to any of the other Bill of Rights commandments.

The Militia

A great many of the wannabe gun grabbers latch on to the militia clause in the second amendment as an out, not so. Going back to the Militia Act of 1792 the militia is considered to be comprised of all able bodied white, male, citizens between the ages of 18 and 45. Subsequent amendments to the Constitution have rendered race and gender moot points. That act defined the individuals that MAY BE CALLED UP for militia duty. However as pointed out in Heller you need not be a member of a formal militia nor does the age definition prohibit individuals outside that age range from volunteering.

Militia

And for those that want to slog through a long winded treatise (Hamilton never avoided using 40 words when 10 would do) there is this.

Federalist 29

Weapons of War

Next comes the argument that a citizen should not be allowed to have a “weapon of war” in their possession. Of course the entire definition of ‘what is a weapon of war’ comes to the fore but it’s an argument that is essentially mental masturbation. Why? Because the Supreme Court has already spoken on that issue.

US v Miller (1939)

Miller was arrested having a sawed-off shotgun in his possession. Miller argued that the possession was protected by the second amendment, the court found otherwise. Justice McReynolds, writing for the majority had this to say;

“In the absence of any evidence tending to show that
possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less
than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some
reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency
of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second
Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such
an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice
that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military
equipment or that its use could contribute to the com-
mon defense.”

In other words the weapon in question was NOT suitable for military service. Quite clearly the court thought that ‘weapons of war’ were quite suitable.
So what you are saying is…

… the history and tradition of the nation, including the militia act of 1792 would mean that it’s not constitutional since it only applies to able bodied white male citizens 18 to 45.

Or do you lose the ability to have firearms after 45 with that statute?

Sounds like a fun place for the next look at the issue.
 
This thread title is spot on in describing the OP.
 
I think that the proper layout of the facts is why the Progressive Left wants to expand the court and pack it with those who believe that it should be a charter of positive liberties that doesn't tell the government what it can't do, but what it should do, to paraphrase President Obama, who was famous for saying that he could rule by pen and phone, which is okay with the Left until someone comes along to Trump their gains with pen and phone in which case, they run right back the the shelter of "original intent."

Until they can use big media, entertainment and government ABCs to overturn the results of an election and get the pen and phone back into the dying claws of a dinosaur like President Biden and his vacuous sidekick.
 
Yeah, but they had DISSENTS!

There are always right-thinking Justices overruled by the crazy justices of the right,
WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE TO PACK THE COURT!
 
Won't we need militias for basic law enforcement when the police are defunded?


Won't that be fun . . . .
 
Won't we need militias for basic law enforcement when the police are defunded?


Won't that be fun . . . .
Not if it is the kind that likes to try to overthrow the government or kidnap officials.

No thanks.
 
Won't we need militias for basic law enforcement when the police are defunded?


Won't that be fun . . . .
Once the police are out of the way, the forces of good can go door-to-door and confiscated those evil guns.

It's in the many Constitutional Penumbras...

You may have the right to bear arms, but you don't have the right to make others afraid because you own arms and their pursuit of happiness matters more than yours. It really is that simple. What part of safe and happy don't you get?


;) ;) :p
 
One major reason Americans are losing their freedom because they accepted the idea that a document intended to be read and understood by 18th century farmers and shopkeepers can now only be “interpreted” by Supreme Court justices and “Constitutional scholars.

The opinions of the citizens count as much as they insist - or as little as they allow.
Actually the farmers were very adamant that the language was designed to be over their heads purposefully.
 
Once the police are out of the way, the forces of good can go door-to-door and confiscated those evil guns.

It's in the many Constitutional Penumbras...

You may have the right to bear arms, but you don't have the right to make others afraid because you own arms and their pursuit of happiness matters more than yours. It really is that simple. What part of safe and happy don't you get?


;) ;) :p



Because doin' right ain't got no end???
 
One major reason Americans are losing their freedom because they accepted the idea that a document intended to be read and understood by 18th century farmers and shopkeepers can now only be “interpreted” by Supreme Court justices and “Constitutional scholars.

The opinions of the citizens count as much as they insist - or as little as they allow.
A careful reading of Federalist 29 will take the reader to the roots of why the 2nd amendment exists.
 
Because doin' right ain't got no end???
Don't insult my mule.

I find the intersection of pro-abortion and anti-gun advocates to be fascinating.

It seems that those who fall towards the extreme on abortion rights also tend to fall on the extreme of gun banning.
 
A careful reading of Federalist 29 will take the reader to the roots of why the 2nd amendment exists.
When you have a script running through your head and a "he didn't say that" mentality the over-under on comprehension is NO.
 
Don't insult my mule.

I find the intersection of pro-abortion and anti-gun advocates to be fascinating.

It seems that those who fall towards the extreme on abortion rights also tend to fall on the extreme of gun banning.


Please extend my sincerest apologies to your equine companion.


For a long damned time, Finland had (and may still) mandatory military service. If we had such a thing for militia service, perhaps the weak-boweled hoplophobes would have an opportuity to face their baseless fears and cultivate an appreciation for the awesome responsibility that being a US citizen conveys. Oh, and be less skeert of firearms.
 
Please extend my sincerest apologies to your equine companion.


For a long damned time, Finland had (and may still) mandatory military service. If we had such a thing for militia service, perhaps the weak-boweled hoplophobes would have an opportuity to face their baseless fears and cultivate an appreciation for the awesome responsibility that being a US citizen conveys. Oh, and be less skeert of firearms.
I'm torn. I am a big fan of some sort of service for all young people but not a fan of mandatory.

I'm not sure if it would do more harm than good, even though not much good is coming from not asking our youth to do something for their country instead of demanding that it do something for them other than simply see to security, foreign and domestic.
 
I'm torn. I am a big fan of some sort of service for all young people but not a fan of mandatory.

I'm not sure if it would do more harm than good, even though not much good is coming from not asking our youth to do something for their country instead of demanding that it do something for them other than simply see to security, foreign and domestic.


I agree, it's a stretch. Not sure entirely what it would look like. But I suspect that there is an upside that we don't have currently.
 
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