The ghosts in the room

[Bramblethorn]

It's true, sex work can mean many things, but what it is in essence is (talking about some form of intercourse, not "just talking" or not just stripping, for money): open your mouth, legs, ass, let a man/woman do what they want, and get paid. Lather, rinse, repeat. That's it in its essence. It does not have to be anything more. it does not have to, and usually does not, involve your personhood, mind, emotions, anything.

You sound very sure of this. Care to tell us how you know?

 

[karaline]

I would say something intelligent and considered about the sex work industry but you guys seem have every possibly view point covered and very articulately. but I wanted to thank Bramblethorn for posting the link, it was very beautiful and moving, and sad. I'd never heard of her before I read this I'm glad I have she sounds like she was an amazing woman, what a tragedy that she felt like she couldn't carry on.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

Unfortunately, the parents of that university student (a year or two ago) who blew the whistle and admitted she paid for her education 'on her back', did not see fit to reveal their feelings on the subject, as I can recall.
Perhaps the papers were a little reticent or afreared to ask.

Still a whore, though, surely ? I wonder more about what her future husband might feel.
[Yes, that may be a bit mean, but its not an uncommon view, even in these more liberated times.]

Relationships are very hard to maintain when you're a stripper. I can't imagine it being any easier for a prostitute. Most people cannot curb their jealousy. I've seen fights break out between dancers and their visiting boyfriends, who knew of the dancers' occupation, and the fight was usually the result of the boyfriend not being able to handle "seeing it" for themselves. As I mentioned before, there was another girl who kept her side occupation a secret from her husband. As for myself, I dated two people during my time as a dancer, both of which were other dancers. They didn't work out because the relationships basically amounted to all of us trying to fill a void, and little else.

I imagine it has to be frustrating for a SO who is feeling horny to have their sex-worker girlfriend/boyfriend come home and not be in the mood because she/he had a sex-marathon earlier that day. There would have to be a great degree of love, trust, and understanding to live that lifestyle, and some go through it every day.

In Char's case, her only "no-go" when it comes to paid sex is anal. Why? She saves it for her husband. Brandi Love, the porn star, has her husband either participate in or film a lot of her videos for her own website. She is also dedicated to educating others on the swinger lifestyle.

Like any relationship, it takes the right person, and a lot of commitment, to make things work. Unfortunately for those in the sex industry, the pool of "fish" is a lot smaller, thanks in part because of social stigmas.

It's true, sex work can mean many things, but what it is in essence is (talking about some form of intercourse, not "just talking" or not just stripping, for money): open your mouth, legs, ass, let a man/woman do what they want, and get paid. Lather, rinse, repeat. That's it in its essence. It does not have to be anything more.

A prostitute has a say in what she will and will not do. Some won't do anal. Some won't do anything but missionary. Almost all refuse to be tied up, for obvious reasons. However, if you have a specific "need", there's probably someone out there willing to do it, for the right price. Specifics are agreed upon beforehand, and expectations are/should be made clear.

I have no delusions about most sex for pay encounters amounting to a money exchange and a quick, emotionless fuck. But "most" does not equal "all".

 

[Carnal_Flower]

No. Id probably just roll my eyes. Yeah, uh huh.

I mean, its not much different than you see with "normal" young women's behavior. They sleep with a guy and often cant distinguish between being used for sex and being wanted as a gf.

See: Amy Schumer. Girl has a one night stand. Its hot. The guy's all luuuuved up cause he just had an orgasm, there's some cuddling involved. Next day she's all excited telling her friends and googling him. He's forgotten instantly about it and is home scratching his nuts watching football.

Pretty common scenario. Pretty common cliche, but no less true. Apparently,.the Cinderella Complex applies to sex workers, too.

But it really MEANT something!

Uh huh. From who's perspective? YOU may have and may still enjoy believing you weren't only a cum dumpster for him,.but what was/is his view?

Of course men get all luuved up and squishy when they're getting a guaranteed orgasm. Don't confuse that with something else.

Of course anyone can enjoy anything. Not saying they cant or dont. But I tend to see it from the Amy point of view.

Does this then mean that if your supposed daughter, who attends college and maintains grades and has a career in mind, tells you that she's a call girl/stripper/escort/sex worker on the side and really actually finds a level of enjoyment in her work... that you would shun her and think of her as a cum guzzling whore? If she attempted to tell you that it wasn't as soulless as you try to make it out to be, would you dismiss her and everything she said because you already have it made up in your mind that all sex workers are phonies and lowlifes? Do you tell her how sickening she is? That no matter what she "imagines" or "romanticizes", she's just a cum dumpster for hire?

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I get that, but I think you avoided the question. Would you present sex work to her as an option along with any other life choice-college, whatever. Yes you'd "support" her in whatever life choice,.but is sex work something you'd like to be on the table for her? Like, will girls someday tour brothels along with colleges providing it was legal?

There are a lot of factors here so let me break it down for you.

I have a daughter, yes, who is six. I'm doing the best of my ability to raise her to be educated, and open minded. Our family structure requires being open minded. When she becomes of age, I will do everything in my power to assist her in making the right choices for herself.

Her college tuition is already paid for. Prostitution is illegal in Ohio. That gives her little incentive to get into sex work.

But let's back up. Let's say her tuition wasn't paid for, and we lived in Nevada.

I'm not one of those parents who will shelter her children from things in the world like they don't exist. When she becomes of age, I will explain to her that sex is a beautiful, wonderful thing, but it can also be dangerous. I will also explain that I used to be a stripper and tell her the reasons why I chose to do that, the benefits, and the negative aspects. I will also inform her of sex work, the pros and cons, the difference between legal and illegal sex work, and stress that her safty should be her number one priority in any job.

In the end, it falls on her to make the right choice for her. Being a parent is to protect and educate your kids and steer in the right direction, that direction being a good person and being a contribution to society. If she says, "Mom, I want to be a stripper," Or, "Mom, I want to work at a brothel," I would support her decision. I would then go with her to whereever she was considering, and help her make a safe, informed decision.

Edit: and on a side note, if she wanted to get into sex work while living in Ohio, I would discourage it because it is illegal and there are greater risks. If she came home one day and said "Mom, I'm a prostitute," I would love her the same as I always have.

 

[SecondCircle]

No one is saying that doesn't happen. Only that every single case isn't necessarily like that. There's too much generalization in what you're saying about this. Sure there's a small portion of truth in every stereotype, but to say all sex workers are THIS way, or that every single case of selling sex is soulless and mechanical, is just narrow thinking. Especially if someone on the inside is telling you that it's not always as soulless as you might think. Key words being "not always".

We pay for concerts and records, and sometimes the fame makes musicians sellouts. But just because the music is bought and sold doesn't mean all the emotion is just sapped out of it because it's bought and sold.

On another note, why is it when we throw in sex to any equation, it seems to cheapen the art to people? I've seen numerous people say what LC said. "It's sex, people." Or "it's an amateur porn site." Or "people just come here to get off." How in the nine hells can we honestly think that just because people are fucking that it makes what we do a back alley stroke fest? For instance when you tell someone you write fiction, they might admire that art form and that you do it. Mention that it's erotica, and suddenly it's just "sex stories". Stories here can have depth or not. People here come to read for not one reason, but a variety of reasons.

That's relative to this scenario with products we sell. Selling music doesn't mean it cheapens the overall emotion or art within the music. Nor does selling paintings, or sculpture, or stories.

But because of the jaded history of typical prostitution, we assume that selling sex in any form is just as cold and immoral as we've always thought? That no one in the world might enjoy doing this (brothels/exotic dancing/pornography) on some level, for whatever reason they do enjoy it?

Oh, but if anyone testifies that they did actually find a deeper somewhat enjoyable aspect to being a dancer, or pornstar, or brothel worker, we just pass that off as them being full of shit?

I daresay that we don't own that right to say what others honestly feel. If I were a 23 yr old woman working in the porn industry, and I were a sexual being who loved doing what others considered "filth" despite any cons in the profession, no one gets to tell me I'm full of shit about what I feel. Well, they can, but that doesn't make it true. No more than we can tell the woman in the OP's link that her experiences are false just because, "Hookers all fake it, everybody knows that. It's all fake. They're just whores in it for the money, and the guys that buy are pathetic."

Again, I think that's actually the point of what she's saying. That things aren't as cut and dry all the time like you would think from your living room. No one is actually trying to convince you that everyone in the profession is a "hooker with a heart of gold". Just that things aren't always as cold or degrading as common people would view it.

No. Id probably just roll my eyes. Yeah, uh huh.

I mean, its not much different than you see with "normal" young women's behavior. They sleep with a guy and often cant distinguish between being used for sex and being wanted as a gf.

See: Amy Schumer. Girl has a one night stand. Its hot. The guy's all luuuuved up cause he just had an orgasm, there's some cuddling involved. Next day she's all excited telling her friends and googling him. He's forgotten instantly about it and is home scratching his nuts watching football.

Pretty common scenario. Pretty common cliche, but no less true. Apparently,.the Cinderella Complex applies to sex workers, too.

But it really MEANT something!

Uh huh. From who's perspective? YOU may have and may still enjoy believing you weren't only a cum dumpster for him,.but what was/is his view?

Of course men get all luuved up and squishy when they're getting a guaranteed orgasm. Don't confuse that with something else.

Of course anyone can enjoy anything. Not saying they cant or dont. But I tend to see it from the Amy point of view.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Well, Ive never worked as a prostitute,.but I am female and heterosexual. That's enough qualification to have an opinion I think.


QUOTE=Bramblethorn;71759820]You sound very sure of this. Care to tell us how you know?[/QUOTE]

 

[SecondCircle]

I think we'd all want our kids to be astronauts if they could.

No one ideally takes their children to factories or construction sites either as the first option, but that doesn't really mean that those jobs are terrible or degrading in every way.

I get that, but I think you avoided the question. Would you present sex work to her as an option along with any other life choice-college, whatever. Yes you'd "support" her in whatever life choice,.but is sex work something you'd like to be on the table for her? Like, will girls someday tour brothels along with colleges providing it was legal?

 

[Handley_Page]

Throwaway line:-
Playboy has decided to be less obvious in its pictures
See here: http://www.playboy.com/articles/no-nudity-announcement

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I see your points and I agree.

If I have gone overboard and insisted on mentioning what can be a horrendous, ugly reality to prostitution, its because of my unease with the rebranding on blogs, twitter and FB,. The "escort" going home to ruminate on the deep meanings of the sex work she just performed could be just another Amy Schumer example. Like I said, I was not convinced. Does not mean anyone's experience is not genuine, etc etc

I think its worth noting at this point that acc to reports the blogger in question killed herself, and left "last words" on FB.
I am not saying this has anything to do with her work, but it DOES have to do with her social media construction, and Im sure they will become a part of the debate.

QUOTE=SecondCircle;71768056]No one is saying that doesn't happen. Only that every single case isn't necessarily like that. There's too much generalization in what you're saying about this. Sure there's a small portion of truth in every stereotype, but to say all sex workers are THIS way, or that every single case of selling sex is soulless and mechanical, is just narrow thinking. Especially if someone on the inside is telling you that it's not always as soulless as you might think. Key words being "not always".

We pay for concerts and records, and sometimes the fame makes musicians sellouts. But just because the music is bought and sold doesn't mean all the emotion is just sapped out of it because it's bought and sold.

On another note, why is it when we throw in sex to any equation, it seems to cheapen the art to people? I've seen numerous people say what LC said. "It's sex, people." Or "it's an amateur porn site." Or "people just come here to get off." How in the nine hells can we honestly think that just because people are fucking that it makes what we do a back alley stroke fest? For instance when you tell someone you write fiction, they might admire that art form and that you do it. Mention that it's erotica, and suddenly it's just "sex stories". Stories here can have depth or not. People here come to read for not one reason, but a variety of reasons.

That's relative to this scenario with products we sell. Selling music doesn't mean it cheapens the overall emotion or art within the music. Nor does selling paintings, or sculpture, or stories.

But because of the jaded history of typical prostitution, we assume that selling sex in any form is just as cold and immoral as we've always thought? That no one in the world might enjoy doing this (brothels/exotic dancing/pornography) on some level, for whatever reason they do enjoy it?

Oh, but if anyone testifies that they did actually find a deeper somewhat enjoyable aspect to being a dancer, or pornstar, or brothel worker, we just pass that off as them being full of shit?

I daresay that we don't own that right to say what others honestly feel. If I were a 23 yr old woman working in the porn industry, and I were a sexual being who loved doing what others considered "filth" despite any cons in the profession, no one gets to tell me I'm full of shit about what I feel. Well, they can, but that doesn't make it true. No more than we can tell the woman in the OP's link that her experiences are false just because, "Hookers all fake it, everybody knows that. It's all fake. They're just whores in it for the money, and the guys that buy are pathetic."

Again, I think that's actually the point of what she's saying. That things aren't as cut and dry all the time like you would think from your living room. No one is actually trying to convince you that everyone in the profession is a "hooker with a heart of gold". Just that things aren't always as cold or degrading as common people would view it.[/QUOTE]

 

[SecondCircle]

Aye, I don't think anyone HAS to buy every word of it, or even be convinced of any of the points made. We all see things different ways. Through the push and pull of discussion, we can come to a place where we consider alternative views, even if we believe differently.

But I think the point at hand was a glimpse into her world either way.

I see your points and I agree.

If I have gone overboard and insisted on mentioning what can be a horrendous, ugly reality to prostitution, its because of my unease with the rebranding on blogs, twitter and FB,. The "escort" going home to ruminate on the deep meanings of the sex work she just performed could be just another Amy Schumer example. Like I said, I was not convinced. Does not mean anyone's experience is not genuine, etc etc

I think its worth noting at this point that acc to reports the blogger in question killed herself, and left "last words" on FB.
I am not saying this has anything to do with her work, but it DOES have to do with her social media construction, and Im sure they will become a part of the debate.

QUOTE=SecondCircle;71768056]No one is saying that doesn't happen. Only that every single case isn't necessarily like that. There's too much generalization in what you're saying about this. Sure there's a small portion of truth in every stereotype, but to say all sex workers are THIS way, or that every single case of selling sex is soulless and mechanical, is just narrow thinking. Especially if someone on the inside is telling you that it's not always as soulless as you might think. Key words being "not always".

We pay for concerts and records, and sometimes the fame makes musicians sellouts. But just because the music is bought and sold doesn't mean all the emotion is just sapped out of it because it's bought and sold.

On another note, why is it when we throw in sex to any equation, it seems to cheapen the art to people? I've seen numerous people say what LC said. "It's sex, people." Or "it's an amateur porn site." Or "people just come here to get off." How in the nine hells can we honestly think that just because people are fucking that it makes what we do a back alley stroke fest? For instance when you tell someone you write fiction, they might admire that art form and that you do it. Mention that it's erotica, and suddenly it's just "sex stories". Stories here can have depth or not. People here come to read for not one reason, but a variety of reasons.

That's relative to this scenario with products we sell. Selling music doesn't mean it cheapens the overall emotion or art within the music. Nor does selling paintings, or sculpture, or stories.

But because of the jaded history of typical prostitution, we assume that selling sex in any form is just as cold and immoral as we've always thought? That no one in the world might enjoy doing this (brothels/exotic dancing/pornography) on some level, for whatever reason they do enjoy it?

Oh, but if anyone testifies that they did actually find a deeper somewhat enjoyable aspect to being a dancer, or pornstar, or brothel worker, we just pass that off as them being full of shit?

I daresay that we don't own that right to say what others honestly feel. If I were a 23 yr old woman working in the porn industry, and I were a sexual being who loved doing what others considered "filth" despite any cons in the profession, no one gets to tell me I'm full of shit about what I feel. Well, they can, but that doesn't make it true. No more than we can tell the woman in the OP's link that her experiences are false just because, "Hookers all fake it, everybody knows that. It's all fake. They're just whores in it for the money, and the guys that buy are pathetic."

Again, I think that's actually the point of what she's saying. That things aren't as cut and dry all the time like you would think from your living room. No one is actually trying to convince you that everyone in the profession is a "hooker with a heart of gold". Just that things aren't always as cold or degrading as common people would view it.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Rozalin_0123]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/2981279...e-tragically-dies-after-mental-health-battle/

Carnal_Flower appears to be right in that she took her own life. The article contains excerpts from her Facebook right before her death. Very sad.

Even she acknowledged the dangers of prostitution. Being attacked, always having to watch your back from mentally ill clients, the police, and society at large. Over a long period of time, I could see it developing into some form of PTSD like she claimed.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

I get that, but I think you avoided the question. Would you present sex work to her as an option along with any other life choice-college, whatever. Yes you'd "support" her in whatever life choice,.but is sex work something you'd like to be on the table for her? Like, will girls someday tour brothels along with colleges providing it was legal?

I didn't think I avoided it. To be blunt, I'd like to see prostitution legalized and regulated to the extent that the state of Nevada has done. It is a system that has been proven effective. That way, if she does decide to get into prostitution, a decision that at some point will be beyond my control, then she would at least be better protected. As things stand currently, no, I wouldn't encourage it because of the dangers and I don't encourage illegal behavior.

Stripping is legal, and yes, I would tell her it is an honest living as long as you keep it honest. However, it certainly wouldn't be my first choice for her. I think every good parent wants to see their child be better than themselves.

 

[Bramblethorn]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/2981279...e-tragically-dies-after-mental-health-battle/

Carnal_Flower appears to be right in that she took her own life. The article contains excerpts from her Facebook right before her death. Very sad.

Even she acknowledged the dangers of prostitution. Being attacked, always having to watch your back from mentally ill clients, the police, and society at large. Over a long period of time, I could see it developing into some form of PTSD like she claimed.

Noting: In 2012, Pippa was violently attacked by a former client, a paroled rapist in an Adelaide apartment.

In South Australia, brothels are criminalised. If she'd been living in NSW, Victoria, or Queensland, she'd have had the choice of working on premises with safety in numbers :-/

But I'll let Grace have the last word:

If the work stress isn’t enough, people will blame any mental health issues on your job. Psychiatrists, psychologists and counsellors will project their own sex industry judgements upon you so that work is the issue, but the myriad of problems you face as a complex human being outside of work is irrelevant. Obviously sex work is the problem. Be prepared for people implanting false memories of sexual abuse, over complicating family relationships and heightening or rehashing any child or adult trauma. YOU ARE THE VICTIM. You don’t know your own mind obviously do you?

 

[DirtyAllie]

People in this thread are reading and posting with their porn goggles on.

The woman in the article complained of PTSD and killed herself.

Oh, so sexy.

For over a decade I have treated women and teen age girls who have been abused in one way or another and I have dealt with many ex prostitutes from the age of 14(yes isn't that sexy) up to early forties.

I have worked with pimped street walkers and women who worked alone out of their house and a couple who were in brothels in other states-and well run ones by their standards-

No one is happy, no one is normal. They all suffer from PTSD or at the least low self esteem, self loathing, disgust at what they did and why...etc...

JUst working with them for six years burnt me out. Now I do it three nights a week as a volunteer and work with a different type of issue during the day now.

The happy hooker is an erotica trope.

And sorry Rozalin your alleged years of swinging from a pole don't make you the expert on how glorious and happy escorts are and how them and their johns 'bond' and are all just having a a 'moment'

For me, people thinking prostitution is sexy in real life are the same people who think non consent is sexy in real life.

Know why men think hooking is sexy? Because it degrades women. "look at this whore sucking my dick for money"

So not surprised on a site where misogyny thrives to see a bunch of people glamorizing sex workers.

I have two step daughters in their twenties. I cannot imagine how heart broken I would be and scared for them if they went into any form of the sex industry. I imagine if people in this thread could stop thinking about the erotica version of sex workers long enough to think of their daughters/sisters/wives in that situation for real things might change

But on a site where burn the bitch stories are considered hilarious and sex trafficking is glorified as being sexy(you know women drugged, abducted, raped for life, that's sexy) I would expect no different than to see a thread filled with men who think a woman sucking and fucking for money is sexy and women with such low self esteem they look for a way to make it that way

And of course we have a couple of the greatest voices in erotica in this thread and we all know one thing about them. They know everything. Not only writing erotica, but everything about sex in general.

I have two degrees and work in a field full of this, but don't listen to me about the lasting effects of prostitution, the ex stripper and her fans no better.

Then again the guy they all worship over in the cabin has the lowest opinion of women of any author I've seen here and I imagine spending a lot of time with that would make a woman think whoring is sexy because I'm sure he-and the many many many men like just like him-maybe the entire general board here-think its as it should be.

There is nothing sexy about this and if any man here really thinks there is, then I feel bad for the women in your lives and if you're a woman who think its is -in reality not works of fiction-then go get help, you need it.

 

[lovecraft68]

^^^^

Wasting time. If they listened to that angle they would have to admit they're wrong and hence acknowledge they really don't have a great opinion of women, subliminal or blatant

And you'll never see that.

Misogynists mostly deny what they are and cowardice goes hand in hand with that type of person, and seeing admitting reality is other than what they what they want it to be takes spine. Misogynists are invertebrates as are the women here so beat down by them that they need to fawn over them and convince themselves acting like a degraded whore is sexy.

You know like a dying women eating out of a dog dish and barking is sexy.

Look at the source on things like this.

Now let's go get breakfast and laugh about them.

 

[DirtyAllie]

^^^^

Wasting time. If they listened to that angle they would have to admit they're wrong and hence acknowledge they really don't have a great opinion of women, subliminal or blatant

And you'll never see that.

Misogynists mostly deny what they are and cowardice goes hand in hand with that type of person, and seeing admitting reality is other than what they what they want it to be takes spine. Misogynists are invertebrates as are the women here so beat down by them that they need to fawn over them and convince themselves acting like a degraded whore is sexy.

You know like a dying women eating out of a dog dish and barking is sexy.

Look at the source on things like this.

Now let's go get breakfast and laugh about them.

As long as you're buying and its not out of a dog bowl.

 

[lovecraft68]

As long as you're buying and its not out of a dog bowl.

You're the one with two degrees, you buy moneybags. I'm just here because I move all your junk around all the time.

 

[Handley_Page]

People in this thread are reading and posting with their porn goggles on.

The woman in the article complained of PTSD and killed herself.

Oh, so sexy.


Know why men think hooking is sexy? Because it degrades women. "look at this whore sucking my dick for money"

I rather think that should be the other was round: "look at this whore sucking my money for dick"

No, I am not trying to be clever or even particularly humourous.

I can sympathise with a woman whose live is so low that the only way she can eat or even live, is on her back. I think that it's rather sad (as well as reputed to be dangerous).
But if some young woman wants to make a few thousand buck relatively quickly, (such as the afore-mentioned student) we should make sure that we treat each case on its merits and not smear all for the few.


And I think Roz has a point; a properly regulated legal brothel is a much better, and safer, idea.
And the government can enjoy the procedes of the Tax.

 

[SecondCircle]

Welcome to the discussion Allie. If we can try to keep this a discussion and not a flame war, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

In response to what you've brought to the table, again no one is saying there isn't a darker more wretched side of selling sex... prostitution specifically. I don't think anyone here doesn't acknowledge that. And yes, as you've told us, the tragedies that can come from the world of prostitution can include sexual abuse, rape, drug abuse, underage trafficking, disease, and a number of other very terrible things.

But not in every single case.

And what is being illustrated in the OP is not an attempt to glorify every single case across the board. It's NOT trying to say "Because of this ONE account, all prostitution is awesome and should be okay."

The original post merely illustrates that not every encounter is soulless and without depth.

It's merely showing us that in some cases like with this woman, she thought of her work in a better light, and found things about it that she thought were beautiful in their own way. She chose to do it, willingly, and on some level enjoyed various aspects of it.

And what that is telling us, is that the "profession" itself doesn't have to be what it has winded up being so many times over. Yes there are very tragic cases resulting from prostitution. But she's not a 14 yr old girl. She doesn't do it to support a drug habit. She doesn't get smacked around by a pimp. She doesn't feel mistreated or abused. She isn't raped and overpowered by the men. She's trying to illustrate that it's not always the wretched side. That at least with her, she doesn't experience what we typically think of or see or associate with prostitution.

And yes she committed suicide... but as Bramble linked, you can't just look at someone and take a face value reason of why they committed suicide. "She's a hooker. That's why she killed herself. Her pain had to only be related to that."

This is what Bramble posted that Grace said:

"If the work stress isn’t enough, people will blame any mental health issues on your job. Psychiatrists, psychologists and counsellors will project their own sex industry judgements upon you so that work is the issue, but the myriad of problems you face as a complex human being outside of work is irrelevant. Obviously sex work is the problem. Be prepared for people implanting false memories of sexual abuse, over complicating family relationships and heightening or rehashing any child or adult trauma. YOU ARE THE VICTIM. You don’t know your own mind obviously do you?"

Does this not speak volumes about how she views her work?

That's the point. She's telling you it's not like that for her. But people take the negatives that do happen with prostitution, and automatically assume that that's her life too.

But I'm sure some would still cross their arms and say she's brainwashed by the pimp daddy that smacks her around and abuses her like in every other case. That she's lying, and glamorizing what she does, that she's trying to convince herself falsely that she's not a victim when she really is like all the other cases. That it's the drugs talking.

She sounds pretty coherent about her situation to me. She sounds intelligent and thoughtful. And she was trying to show us things in a different light that we don't get to see often.

No one is denying the realities of what can and does happen daily associated with prostitution. No one is trying to say that we should push to sell our daughters into sex slavery. No one is condoning the abuse of women or men for that matter. No one is romanticizing the darker cases of abuse and pain. No one is supporting rape or mistreatment of anyone. No one views women or men as a lesser human being here to be used for sex. And again, no one is trying to say that all cases of prostitution are wonderful and filled with unicorns and rainbows.

A glimpse into a woman's work of prostitution was given, and it was her testimony that tried to shed light on the work she did from a different perspective. And rather than brand her "slut" or "clueless victim" or "just like the rest", we stopped to consider what she was telling us in that link with her stories. We considered that things are not always the way they seem.

I understand that after what you've seen, that's not an easy thing to consider. And no one says you have to. I would only ask that we look deeper before we readily judge anything, even this woman who didn't want to be thought of as just another hooker.

People in this thread are reading and posting with their porn goggles on.

The woman in the article complained of PTSD and killed herself.

Oh, so sexy.

For over a decade I have treated women and teen age girls who have been abused in one way or another and I have dealt with many ex prostitutes from the age of 14(yes isn't that sexy) up to early forties.

I have worked with pimped street walkers and women who worked alone out of their house and a couple who were in brothels in other states-and well run ones by their standards-

No one is happy, no one is normal. They all suffer from PTSD or at the least low self esteem, self loathing, disgust at what they did and why...etc...

JUst working with them for six years burnt me out. Now I do it three nights a week as a volunteer and work with a different type of issue during the day now.

The happy hooker is an erotica trope.

And sorry Rozalin your alleged years of swinging from a pole don't make you the expert on how glorious and happy escorts are and how them and their johns 'bond' and are all just having a a 'moment'

For me, people thinking prostitution is sexy in real life are the same people who think non consent is sexy in real life.

Know why men think hooking is sexy? Because it degrades women. "look at this whore sucking my dick for money"

So not surprised on a site where misogyny thrives to see a bunch of people glamorizing sex workers.

I have two step daughters in their twenties. I cannot imagine how heart broken I would be and scared for them if they went into any form of the sex industry. I imagine if people in this thread could stop thinking about the erotica version of sex workers long enough to think of their daughters/sisters/wives in that situation for real things might change

But on a site where burn the bitch stories are considered hilarious and sex trafficking is glorified as being sexy(you know women drugged, abducted, raped for life, that's sexy) I would expect no different than to see a thread filled with men who think a woman sucking and fucking for money is sexy and women with such low self esteem they look for a way to make it that way

And of course we have a couple of the greatest voices in erotica in this thread and we all know one thing about them. They know everything. Not only writing erotica, but everything about sex in general.

I have two degrees and work in a field full of this, but don't listen to me about the lasting effects of prostitution, the ex stripper and her fans no better.

Then again the guy they all worship over in the cabin has the lowest opinion of women of any author I've seen here and I imagine spending a lot of time with that would make a woman think whoring is sexy because I'm sure he-and the many many many men like just like him-maybe the entire general board here-think its as it should be.

There is nothing sexy about this and if any man here really thinks there is, then I feel bad for the women in your lives and if you're a woman who think its is -in reality not works of fiction-then go get help, you need it.

 

[SecondCircle]

Is there always just negativity and outright malice in everything you say?

Have a seat. Discuss shit with me. Double shot just to get kill the taste buds. We'll talk about the OP's topic all day.

But if you're just here to slap fight, name call, and spook everyone out with tales of the "ominous secret society", then save it. It isn't relevant to this discussion, it's a tired topic that everyone is sick of seeing, and most everyone would ignore the shit anyway. No one ever wins. And it's fucking stupid.

^^^^

Wasting time. If they listened to that angle they would have to admit they're wrong and hence acknowledge they really don't have a great opinion of women, subliminal or blatant

And you'll never see that.

Misogynists mostly deny what they are and cowardice goes hand in hand with that type of person, and seeing admitting reality is other than what they what they want it to be takes spine. Misogynists are invertebrates as are the women here so beat down by them that they need to fawn over them and convince themselves acting like a degraded whore is sexy.

You know like a dying women eating out of a dog dish and barking is sexy.

Look at the source on things like this.

Now let's go get breakfast and laugh about them.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

For over a decade I have treated women and teen age girls who have been abused in one way or another and I have dealt with many ex prostitutes from the age of 14(yes isn't that sexy) up to early forties.

I have worked with pimped street walkers and women who worked alone out of their house and a couple who were in brothels in other states-and well run ones by their standards-

No one is happy, no one is normal. They all suffer from PTSD or at the least low self esteem, self loathing, disgust at what they did and why...etc...

First, let me commend you for reaching out to those women in need. There are certainly many who suffer both emotionally and physically. They need all the help they can get.

But you are seeing those who want help. Not every sex worker, stripper, webcam girl, and porn star wants help. Not every sex worker, stripper, webcam girl, and porn star NEEDS help.

I remember while dancing that a woman would periodically show up to the club to hand out gift bags to all the dancers. These gift bags often contained body spray, snacks, coupons for formula, all kinds of things. Also in the bag was a card with a phone number in which they could call if they needed help. This woman, an ex-stripper, got out of what she claimed to be a horrible industry. She found God, and made it her mission to help other dancers in need. A commendable and honorable endeavor.

I, however, didn't want nor need her help. I was happy with what I was doing, as were many of the other girls. The club I worked for was nice, had great security, and I made an honest living that allow me to live comfortably. I didn't take offense to what she was doing, but I certainly didn't feel I was doing anything wrong either.

Not all cases are the same, for any profession. I'd bet plenty of police officers go through similar PTDS after years of apprehending criminals, putting their lives on the line, and seeing the raw ugliness of humanity. But I don't see society at large discriminating, shunning, belittling, police officers to the degree of prostitutes. If a police officer were to commit suicide, the news would say it was because he/she "couldn't deal with the stress of their profession," right? But then, who are those in the news to judge what goes through the mind of a police officer, or a prostitute for that matter?

Here's something you should read:

http://becauseimawhore.com/2012/01/28/so-youve-met-a-hooker/

The happy hooker is an erotica trope.

Tropes, like stereotypes, have to have at least a small bit of truth to them, otherwise, they wouldn't stick. Is every hooker happy? I don't think anyone could debate that. Is every hooker unhappy? Well, the OP certainly leaves some room for debate, as well as her colleagues' blogs and testimonials. It is a job, and like any job, there can be high points and low points. Some choose to dwell on the positive, because the negative is often too terrifying to think about.

And sorry Rozalin your alleged years of swinging from a pole don't make you the expert on how glorious and happy escorts are and how them and their johns 'bond' and are all just having a a 'moment'

I never claimed to be an expert. However, I don't think you being an alleged volunteer with "two degrees" who helps sex workers (but never got into any type of sex work yourself) makes you any more of an expert than myself. You've seen the bitter, ugly side of prostitution. That's about it. I've been propositioned (sometimes very generously, other times aggressively) on a weekly or even daily basis. I've had my share of gropers, pushers, drunks, stalkers, creepers, and the like. I've had chills running down my spine while walking to my car in a dark parking lot at 3 a.m. for fear of who may be lurking in the shadows.

Do you, personally, know what that's like?

But you know what I AM an expert in? MY emotions, MY feelings, and MY body. I know what I felt, and have good reason to believe some of the guys who watched me dance for them, no matter how much you or anyone else tries to convince me that I've been brainwashed.

For me, people thinking prostitution is sexy in real life are the same people who think non consent is sexy in real life.

Are you seriously saying that people who think prostitution is sexy also think rape is sexy? Wow... You're pairing consensual sex with rape. That doesn't even make sense!

And before you say it, yes, I'm aware that rape occurs within the sex industry. Did you read the link ^^up there^^ ? If you didn't, it at one point talks about you never know who you're truly speaking to until they tell you. They could be a prostitute. What's not in that article is that the same applies to rape victims. Who knows, maybe someone within this very thread is a rape victim. Or even a prostitute. All I'm saying is that you, Mrs. Volunteer-with-two-degrees, should be a bit more careful with what you say, because you know not to whom you speak.

Know why men think hooking is sexy? Because it degrades women. "look at this whore sucking my dick for money"

Because you, a woman, would know exactly what every man on the planet who has ever paid for sex thinks or feels. I can't even make a bold claim to know what even 1% of all women think, or even 1% of all strippers, let alone men.

I have two step daughters in their twenties. I cannot imagine how heart broken I would be and scared for them if they went into any form of the sex industry. I imagine if people in this thread could stop thinking about the erotica version of sex workers long enough to think of their daughters/sisters/wives in that situation for real things might change

I have stopped to think of my daughter. Read my response to Carnal_Flower's questions, which were good questions. When I advocate for prostitution to be legalized and regulated, I have my daughter, your step-daughters, and everyone else's daughter in mind. Because every prostitute is someone's daughter (or son). Since no one has come up with a way to stop prostitution completely throughout the history of, well... ever, I'd much rather see procedures put into place to better protect these individuals who decide to do this line of work. Procedures proven to work.

Is sex work what I want for the daughters of the world? Of course not! Nor do I want them to all be factory workers, coal miners, or do nothing more than a "McJob". I want them safe, secure in themselves, and not looked down upon.

But on a site where burn the bitch stories are considered hilarious and sex trafficking is glorified as being sexy(you know women drugged, abducted, raped for life, that's sexy) I would expect no different than to see a thread filled with men who think a woman sucking and fucking for money is sexy and women with such low self esteem they look for a way to make it that way.

For the record, I have high self esteem. There is nothing I can't do that I set my mind to. How do you think I went from being a stripper to being the CFO for a manufacturing corporation making 180k a year? You know nothing about me, just like I know nothing about you. I could just as easily say that you have low self esteem for staying married to an ex-convict prone to violent behavior. I also could, just as easily, say you're just LC posting on his wife's account after the ass-chewing I gave him. (The speech patterns and grammatical errors are oddly similar.)

See how prejudices work?

And of course we have a couple of the greatest voices in erotica in this thread and we all know one thing about them. They know everything. Not only writing erotica, but everything about sex in general.

No, your husband knows everything. He can look into the future, duh!

Since you brought it up, when did your husband become a "bestselling" author? Bestselling according to whom? Hypocrites much? At least I, and most authors here, understand what marketing is.

But none of this is relevant to the topic, so any further prodding from you or your husband will be ignored.

I have two degrees and work in a field full of this, but don't listen to me about the lasting effects of prostitution, the ex stripper and her fans no better.

Did your studies of those two degrees include anything on how not to use derogatory remarks, especially towards someone who could have came to you for guidance once upon a time?

Then again the guy they all worship over in the cabin has the lowest opinion of women of any author I've seen here and I imagine spending a lot of time with that would make a woman think whoring is sexy because I'm sure he-and the many many many men like just like him-maybe the entire general board here-think its as it should be.

Again, not relevant to the topic. But I'd like to point out, once again, that authors are not the characters they create. If they were, Stephen King must fantasize about killing little children while wearing a clown costume.

There is nothing sexy about this and if any man here really thinks there is, then I feel bad for the women in your lives and if you're a woman who think its is -in reality not works of fiction-then go get help, you need it.

With "help" like yours, I think I'll pass.


Since you're hung up over the ugliness of the sex industry, and that I'm "glamorizing" it because of my "low self esteem", how about you make a new topic about how horrible it is? I'd love to share just how cruel of a world it can be which some of these women live in. I've seen it for myself, just as you have, albeit from a different perspective. I'll be there, I promise.

But I'm not going to do it here in this thread, because that's not what the topic is about. It's about a woman, a prostitute, who shared her experiences with the world in hopes that somebody would listen. She had a passion for what she did, and we should recognize that passion as her own, even if you don't agree with it. The reasons for taking her own life are hers and hers alone.

Let us remember a life that could have maybe, just maybe, been preserved if we, as a society, opened our minds and hearts to change our way of thinking.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

You know what?

I think the only thing worse for you than people thinking you were a dumb ho for being a stripper, is not caring that you ever were.

Don’t care. Don’t care that you stripped, don’t care that you still pole dance for exercise. Don’t care how much money you make. Don’t care and never wanted to know this much about your personal life.

I, for one, have been truly enlightened on this thread. I’ve gone from thinking prostitution was inherently horrific to seeing it for what it really is: a McJob. Neither good, nor bad, just: uninteresting. I’ll even go on the record for that with sex work as a whole. Trading money for sex is: boring to think about, boring to talk about. I’ve learned a valuable lesson.

 

[SecondCircle]

You know what?

I think the only thing worse for you than people thinking you were a dumb ho for being a stripper, is not caring that you ever were.

Don’t care. Don’t care that you stripped, don’t care that you still pole dance for exercise. Don’t care how much money you make. Don’t care and never wanted to know this much about your personal life.

I, for one, have been truly enlightened on this thread. I’ve gone from thinking prostitution was inherently horrific to seeing it for what it really is: a McJob. Neither good, nor bad, just: uninteresting. I’ll even go on the record for that with sex work as a whole. Trading money for sex is: boring to think about, boring to talk about. I’ve learned a valuable lesson.

Very well then.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

You know what?

I think the only thing worse for you than people thinking you were a dumb ho for being a stripper, is not caring that you ever were.

Don’t care. Don’t care that you stripped, don’t care that you still pole dance for exercise. Don’t care how much money you make. Don’t care and never wanted to know this much about your personal life.

I, for one, have been truly enlightened on this thread. I’ve gone from thinking prostitution was inherently horrific to seeing it for what it really is: a McJob. Neither good, nor bad, just: uninteresting. I’ll even go on the record for that with sex work as a whole. Trading money for sex is: boring to think about, boring to talk about. I’ve learned a valuable lesson.

Sorry for boring you.