The 10 Kinds of Trolls You Will Encounter When Talking About Mike Brown

[KingOrfeo]

From HuffPo:

Olivia Cole

The 10 Kinds of Trolls You Will Encounter When Talking About Mike Brown

Posted: 08/19/2014 5:53 pm EDT Updated: 08/19/2014 11:59 pm EDT

If you're paying attention to the events unfolding in Ferguson -- and by God, you better be -- then you probably already know there is a group of people in this country of ours who are determined to change the focus of the conversation about the killing of Mike Brown and the subsequent protests, attempting to shift the lens away from the Constitutional rights of U.S. citizens and the killing of a black teenager. If you're reading this, you probably already know the folks I'm talking about. But here they are. #Staywoke.

The Full-Blown Racist Troll
Block on sight. Some of them are friends of your Facebook friends -- block them. Some of them are your Facebook friends. Many of them are accounts like the one I have screenshotted below: anonymous and relying on blatantly racist language, such as blackface imagery, monkey references, use of the N-word, etc. These have exploded over the last week. We're talking hundreds. I've been using Twitter avidly for years and I can't recall ever seeing quite this much racist bile taking over an event-related hashtag (#Ferguson) as I have this week. Block them and report them for spam immediately.

The "Wait for Evidence" Troll
This troll may or may not be anonymous and pretends to be focused on respecting and upholding the law. "We don't know what happened yet," they say, "wait for evidence before you lambast an officer of the law." They pretend that things like racism, police brutality, police corruption, etc. don't exist and insist that if concrete evidence is released, they will be swayed to feel "sympathy" for Mike Brown. But they won't. When evidence arises, they find objection to its relevance or veracity. They then transform into The "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll, to follow.

The "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll
This troll (and the others as well) will go great lengths to justify the taking of black life. "He shouldn't have run," "he shouldn't have been sagging," "he shouldn't have been walking down the middle of the street," "he shouldn't have stolen something." These trolls come in all races and will insist that when a police officer (or a homeowner, or a security guard) assaults a person of color, that person must have done something to deserve it. The fact that Mike Brown was shot at least 6 times doesn't register as overkill, even when two of those shots were in the head. They will also extend effort to paint Ferguson as a ghetto, where this kind of thing happens all the time. Nope. Ferguson, Missouri had zero murders.

The "Police Are the Good Guys" Troll
These folks have a blissfully naïve version of police in their heads, the one fed to them since they were children that says police are the good guys and that no matter what they do, they must have had a reason. These people have no concept -- or pretend to have no concept -- of the depth of white supremacy and the way it is ingrained in every facet of our culture... even our police. Because they believe the police are always right -- and usually because they also believe that groups of black people are inherently violent -- they have no qualms about police dressed in military gear, sitting on tanks and tear-gassing American citizens. 'Murica. You may also hear these trolls say, "What about due process?" Well... we would proceed with due process. If they would actually arrest Darren Wilson. Which they haven't. So...

The "Violence Just Begets More Violence" Troll
These people are the riot-shamers. They roll out the word "looters!" at every chance and are not interested in the fact that only a small number of people at the protests have actively looted, or that Ferguson protestors actually locked arms to prevent said looting. These trolls hide behind anonymous accounts, they masquerade as sane coworkers, and they work for CNN and other major media outlets. They focus on the "unrest" in Ferguson and talk about it out of context in an attempt to 1) divert attention away from the killing of an unarmed black teenager and/or 2) disguise their lack of critical thought. As Mia McKenzie of Black Girl Dangerous said so well in this post:

"a community pushing back against a murderous police force that is terrorizing them is not a 'riot.' It's an uprising. It's a rebellion. It's a community saying We can't take this anymore. We won't take it. It's people who have been dehumanized to the point of rightful rage. And it happens all over the world. Uprisings and rebellions are necessary and inevitable, locally and globally. This is not to say that actual riots don't happen. White folks riot at sporting events, for example. Riots happen. But people rising up in righteous anger and rage in the face of oppression should not be dismissed as simply a 'riot.'"

The Concern Troll
These are among the more passive aggressive trolls you will encounter. They not only target victims like Mike Brown with statements like "I wish he hadn't stolen those cigars: he might be alive," but target the community as well, saying things like "Should they really be out there protesting with little kids? I worry about that kind of parenting."

Let me make one thing clear in case you weren't sure: these people aren't worried about the children of Ferguson. They're not actually "concerned" at all," despite their title. These people employ words like "worry" and "I wish" and "concern" to communicate their disapproval of black people doing anything besides playing the Martin Baker role. If they were actually concerned, they would see the images of police with hidden badge numbers, tear-gassing eight-year old girls, and be concerned about the escalation of violence police in Ferguson are responsible for.

The "But What About Black on Black Crime!" Troll
Yes, 85 percent of violent crime against black people is perpetuated by other black people. But guess what? The exact same is true for violent crime committed against white people: the vast majority of those crimes are committed by other white people. People who use the term "black on black crime" either 1) work for Fox News, 2) are seeking to portray black people as violent and out of control, and/or 3) seek to portray black people as only caring about black lives when there is a way to blame white people. Let's run that back: 1) If they work for Fox News...you already know. 2) If we're going to make sweeping statements about people being violent and out of control, perhaps we should focus on young white males. 3) Anyone who would fit with #3 is not interested in facts, otherwise they would be aware of the vast number of organizations and movements to end gun violence in black neighborhoods... spearheaded by black people. The real motivation behind this troll (and all of them really) is to distract from the matter at hand, and that's that an unarmed black teen is dead.

The "Don't Make This A Racial Issue!" Troll
These are the pearl-clutchers. "This could have happened to anyone! Let's not make this a racial issue and instead focus on getting this cop off the street!" Yes, we should focus on getting this cop off the street, but we must also focus on the conditions that made this killing possible, and that is one of racism, white supremacy, and police violence that has been being built and rebuilt since the birth of this country. No, this wouldn't have just happened to anyone. A black male is killed by police every 28 hours in America. This is a racial issue.

These trolls will also accuse you of being racist for talking about racism and start quoting to you all the times black people perpetuated "reverse racism" against white people. Suggested action? Block and keep it moving.

The Misinformation Bots
These are particularly dangerous and I have seen a lot of them in the past week. I won't speculate on where they come from -- although I have a fairly good idea -- but their sole purpose is to spread misinformation about Mike Brown and Darren Wilson, targeting people tweeting under the #Ferguson and #MikeBrown hashtags and sending them to false articles on homemade websites about alternate eyewitnesses that saw Brown attack Wilson, etc. Don't engage with these people: they likely get paid for it. Report them as spam and, you guessed it: keep it moving.

The "I Wish We Could All Just Get Along" Troll
These trolls might mean well. They might. But that doesn't mean they're not trolls. You post/tweet an article and they tweet back, "This is all really bad, but I wish this wasn't happening. Can't we all just get along?" They're trolling you. We all wish we could get along. But right now a boy is dead and is receiving no justice by the system that supposedly exists to protect him. Injecting Pollyanna-isms aren't helping anyone. If you really want to help and the frontlines aren't for you, just donate to the Michael Brown Memorial Fund. And stay out of the way.

This isn't an exhaustive list. When a black person is killed in America, trolls come out of the woodwork in an attempt to justify or distract from the taking of that life. After finishing this post, I'm not even sure "troll" is the right word, but I'm not sure if I have a better one either. Weights, perhaps. Cinder blocks shackled to the rising tide of Americans who want better, believe in better; who see the killing of another black kid in America and say "enough." These people are not merely trolls. "Troll" implies something harmless, a faceless entity in the underbelly of the Internet. These people are not harmless. They are part of the problem. Unfortunately I don't have a solution for the problem they pose: they are not interested in self-education. They are not interested in empathy. They are not interested in challenging the worldview that has tucked them in at night and told them the police are here for our protection and that black people deserve what they get. They are interested only in standing very still, while the rest of us move forward. All I can say is this: move on without them. Block, report, and move on without them. Even when they're friends.

 

[Dream59]

Or the we can do anything we want as long as we scream murder loud enough, whether it is true or not does not matter. Troll.

"a community pushing back against a murderous police force that is terrorizing them is not a 'riot.' It's an uprising. It's a rebellion. It's a community saying We can't take this anymore. We won't take it. It's people who have been dehumanized to the point of rightful rage. And it happens all over the world. Uprisings and rebellions are necessary and inevitable, locally and globally. This is not to say that actual riots don't happen. White folks riot at sporting events, for example. Riots happen. But people rising up in righteous anger and rage in the face of oppression should not be dismissed as simply a 'riot.'"

 

[RobDownSouth]

Or the we can do anything we want as long as we scream murder loud enough, whether it is true or not does not matter. Troll.

"a community pushing back against a murderous police force that is terrorizing them is not a 'riot.' It's an uprising. It's a rebellion. It's a community saying We can't take this anymore. We won't take it. It's people who have been dehumanized to the point of rightful rage. And it happens all over the world. Uprisings and rebellions are necessary and inevitable, locally and globally. This is not to say that actual riots don't happen. White folks riot at sporting events, for example. Riots happen. But people rising up in righteous anger and rage in the face of oppression should not be dismissed as simply a 'riot.'"

It's gonna be admittedly hard to classify the sort of trolling you're doing.

 

[unregistered]

 

[dan_c00000]

Then we have the overarching mega troll on the left, fostering, demanding, and instituting the massive straitjacket of political correctness, that has been over the civil society that brings all this shit on in the first place.

That's funny coming from a proven liar and coward. Tell you what vette. You're a big tough marine. Why don't you get out of your trailer park and go walk through the Hunts Point and see what happens when you talk shit.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Then we have the overarching mega troll on the left, fostering, demanding, and instituting the massive straitjacket of political correctness, that has been over the civil society that brings all this shit on in the first place.

Political correctness did not kill Mike Brown.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Then we have the overarching mega troll on the left, fostering, demanding, and instituting the massive straitjacket of political correctness, that has been over the civil society that brings all this shit on in the first place.

That's not even remotely true.

 

[zipman]

From HuffPo:

Olivia Cole

The 10 Kinds of Trolls You Will Encounter When Talking About Mike Brown

Posted: 08/19/2014 5:53 pm EDT Updated: 08/19/2014 11:59 pm EDT

If you're paying attention to the events unfolding in Ferguson -- and by God, you better be -- then you probably already know there is a group of people in this country of ours who are determined to change the focus of the conversation about the killing of Mike Brown and the subsequent protests, attempting to shift the lens away from the Constitutional rights of U.S. citizens and the killing of a black teenager. If you're reading this, you probably already know the folks I'm talking about. But here they are. #Staywoke.

The Full-Blown Racist Troll
Block on sight. Some of them are friends of your Facebook friends -- block them. Some of them are your Facebook friends. Many of them are accounts like the one I have screenshotted below: anonymous and relying on blatantly racist language, such as blackface imagery, monkey references, use of the N-word, etc. These have exploded over the last week. We're talking hundreds. I've been using Twitter avidly for years and I can't recall ever seeing quite this much racist bile taking over an event-related hashtag (#Ferguson) as I have this week. Block them and report them for spam immediately.

The "Wait for Evidence" Troll
This troll may or may not be anonymous and pretends to be focused on respecting and upholding the law. "We don't know what happened yet," they say, "wait for evidence before you lambast an officer of the law." They pretend that things like racism, police brutality, police corruption, etc. don't exist and insist that if concrete evidence is released, they will be swayed to feel "sympathy" for Mike Brown. But they won't. When evidence arises, they find objection to its relevance or veracity. They then transform into The "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll, to follow.

The "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll
This troll (and the others as well) will go great lengths to justify the taking of black life. "He shouldn't have run," "he shouldn't have been sagging," "he shouldn't have been walking down the middle of the street," "he shouldn't have stolen something." These trolls come in all races and will insist that when a police officer (or a homeowner, or a security guard) assaults a person of color, that person must have done something to deserve it. The fact that Mike Brown was shot at least 6 times doesn't register as overkill, even when two of those shots were in the head. They will also extend effort to paint Ferguson as a ghetto, where this kind of thing happens all the time. Nope. Ferguson, Missouri had zero murders.

The "Police Are the Good Guys" Troll
These folks have a blissfully naïve version of police in their heads, the one fed to them since they were children that says police are the good guys and that no matter what they do, they must have had a reason. These people have no concept -- or pretend to have no concept -- of the depth of white supremacy and the way it is ingrained in every facet of our culture... even our police. Because they believe the police are always right -- and usually because they also believe that groups of black people are inherently violent -- they have no qualms about police dressed in military gear, sitting on tanks and tear-gassing American citizens. 'Murica. You may also hear these trolls say, "What about due process?" Well... we would proceed with due process. If they would actually arrest Darren Wilson. Which they haven't. So...

The "Violence Just Begets More Violence" Troll
These people are the riot-shamers. They roll out the word "looters!" at every chance and are not interested in the fact that only a small number of people at the protests have actively looted, or that Ferguson protestors actually locked arms to prevent said looting. These trolls hide behind anonymous accounts, they masquerade as sane coworkers, and they work for CNN and other major media outlets. They focus on the "unrest" in Ferguson and talk about it out of context in an attempt to 1) divert attention away from the killing of an unarmed black teenager and/or 2) disguise their lack of critical thought. As Mia McKenzie of Black Girl Dangerous said so well in this post:



The Concern Troll
These are among the more passive aggressive trolls you will encounter. They not only target victims like Mike Brown with statements like "I wish he hadn't stolen those cigars: he might be alive," but target the community as well, saying things like "Should they really be out there protesting with little kids? I worry about that kind of parenting."

Let me make one thing clear in case you weren't sure: these people aren't worried about the children of Ferguson. They're not actually "concerned" at all," despite their title. These people employ words like "worry" and "I wish" and "concern" to communicate their disapproval of black people doing anything besides playing the Martin Baker role. If they were actually concerned, they would see the images of police with hidden badge numbers, tear-gassing eight-year old girls, and be concerned about the escalation of violence police in Ferguson are responsible for.

The "But What About Black on Black Crime!" Troll
Yes, 85 percent of violent crime against black people is perpetuated by other black people. But guess what? The exact same is true for violent crime committed against white people: the vast majority of those crimes are committed by other white people. People who use the term "black on black crime" either 1) work for Fox News, 2) are seeking to portray black people as violent and out of control, and/or 3) seek to portray black people as only caring about black lives when there is a way to blame white people. Let's run that back: 1) If they work for Fox News...you already know. 2) If we're going to make sweeping statements about people being violent and out of control, perhaps we should focus on young white males. 3) Anyone who would fit with #3 is not interested in facts, otherwise they would be aware of the vast number of organizations and movements to end gun violence in black neighborhoods... spearheaded by black people. The real motivation behind this troll (and all of them really) is to distract from the matter at hand, and that's that an unarmed black teen is dead.

The "Don't Make This A Racial Issue!" Troll
These are the pearl-clutchers. "This could have happened to anyone! Let's not make this a racial issue and instead focus on getting this cop off the street!" Yes, we should focus on getting this cop off the street, but we must also focus on the conditions that made this killing possible, and that is one of racism, white supremacy, and police violence that has been being built and rebuilt since the birth of this country. No, this wouldn't have just happened to anyone. A black male is killed by police every 28 hours in America. This is a racial issue.

These trolls will also accuse you of being racist for talking about racism and start quoting to you all the times black people perpetuated "reverse racism" against white people. Suggested action? Block and keep it moving.

The Misinformation Bots
These are particularly dangerous and I have seen a lot of them in the past week. I won't speculate on where they come from -- although I have a fairly good idea -- but their sole purpose is to spread misinformation about Mike Brown and Darren Wilson, targeting people tweeting under the #Ferguson and #MikeBrown hashtags and sending them to false articles on homemade websites about alternate eyewitnesses that saw Brown attack Wilson, etc. Don't engage with these people: they likely get paid for it. Report them as spam and, you guessed it: keep it moving.

The "I Wish We Could All Just Get Along" Troll
These trolls might mean well. They might. But that doesn't mean they're not trolls. You post/tweet an article and they tweet back, "This is all really bad, but I wish this wasn't happening. Can't we all just get along?" They're trolling you. We all wish we could get along. But right now a boy is dead and is receiving no justice by the system that supposedly exists to protect him. Injecting Pollyanna-isms aren't helping anyone. If you really want to help and the frontlines aren't for you, just donate to the Michael Brown Memorial Fund. And stay out of the way.

This isn't an exhaustive list. When a black person is killed in America, trolls come out of the woodwork in an attempt to justify or distract from the taking of that life. After finishing this post, I'm not even sure "troll" is the right word, but I'm not sure if I have a better one either. Weights, perhaps. Cinder blocks shackled to the rising tide of Americans who want better, believe in better; who see the killing of another black kid in America and say "enough." These people are not merely trolls. "Troll" implies something harmless, a faceless entity in the underbelly of the Internet. These people are not harmless. They are part of the problem. Unfortunately I don't have a solution for the problem they pose: they are not interested in self-education. They are not interested in empathy. They are not interested in challenging the worldview that has tucked them in at night and told them the police are here for our protection and that black people deserve what they get. They are interested only in standing very still, while the rest of us move forward. All I can say is this: move on without them. Block, report, and move on without them. Even when they're friends.

Yes, let's squash any possible other way of discussing the issue that doesn't conform to your way of thinking. Honestly, the attempt to limit the conversation to what you think is acceptable is as offensive as some of the worst examples above.

I believe in waiting for the evidence to be found in all cases. Our country was founded on basis of innocent until proven guilty. That doesn't mean that I don't know that know and acknowledge that racism exists, police brutality occurs or that some cops are corrupt.

 

[CeasarBoobage]

HuffPo has it's angle on everything, and so far they're marching right in line with the other large media markets that want to keep good ratings. They are so blindly on the side of "evil honkey cop executes poor gentle giant for walking" that it's pathetic.

HuffPo is no better than the trolls they're pretending to make fun of.

Where am I on this? Hell, I don't have access to 1/2 of what the cops and witnesses know. I'm not going to pull a knee-jerk reaction to this like 90% of the country is, and with the latest news coming out, it's looking worse and worse for the victim. Too bad the racists are accusing the cop based on his pigmentation levels, but it's politically correct since he's white.

 

[Skiddles2014]

Yes, let's squash any possible other way of discussing the issue that doesn't conform to your way of thinking. Honestly, the attempt to limit the conversation to what you think is acceptable is as offensive as some of the worst examples above.

I believe in waiting for the evidence to be found in all cases. Our country was founded on basis of innocent until proven guilty. That doesn't mean that I don't know that know and acknowledge that racism exists, police brutality occurs or that some cops are corrupt.

The "Wait for Evidence" Troll

 

[KingOrfeo]

HuffPo has it's angle on everything, and so far they're marching right in line with the other large media markets that want to keep good ratings. They are so blindly on the side of "evil honkey cop executes poor gentle giant for walking" that it's pathetic.

HuffPo is no better than the trolls they're pretending to make fun of.

Where am I on this? Hell, I don't have access to 1/2 of what the cops and witnesses know. I'm not going to pull a knee-jerk reaction to this like 90% of the country is, and with the latest news coming out, it's looking worse and worse for the victim. Too bad the racists are accusing the cop based on his pigmentation levels, but it's politically correct since he's white.

The "Don't Make This A Racial Issue!" Troll. Or perhaps the "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll.

 

[Sean Renaud]

HuffPo has it's angle on everything, and so far they're marching right in line with the other large media markets that want to keep good ratings. They are so blindly on the side of "evil honkey cop executes poor gentle giant for walking" that it's pathetic.

HuffPo is no better than the trolls they're pretending to make fun of.

Where am I on this? Hell, I don't have access to 1/2 of what the cops and witnesses know. I'm not going to pull a knee-jerk reaction to this like 90% of the country is, and with the latest news coming out, it's looking worse and worse for the victim. Too bad the racists are accusing the cop based on his pigmentation levels, but it's politically correct since he's white.

What has come out that looks bad for the victim?

 

[Phelia]

Yes, let's squash any possible other way of discussing the issue that doesn't conform to your way of thinking. Honestly, the attempt to limit the conversation to what you think is acceptable is as offensive as some of the worst examples above.

I believe in waiting for the evidence to be found in all cases. Our country was founded on basis of innocent until proven guilty. That doesn't mean that I don't know that know and acknowledge that racism exists, police brutality occurs or that some cops are corrupt.

While the only thing I find remotely interesting about the OP is that it's a KingO c&p that came from somewhere other than Salon, I am intrigued by your response. What sort of evidence are you waiting for? I can understand a hesitance to make unsubstantiated or sensationalized claims, but I also think it's pretty clear that something is very wrong. We're talking about an unarmed teenager who was stopped for jaywalking and ended up dead on the pavement and riddled with bullets. I can't imagine a piece of evidence surfacing that mitigates how deeply fucked up that is. Of course, we filter everything through the lens of our own perception (and mine is freshly calibrated thanks to watching Eric Garner die on the street after an illegal police chokehold for LITERALLY NO REASON), but I think the Ferguson PD's response has also been a pretty clear bungle.

 

[CeasarBoobage]

There are a few things that appear to show the Gentle Giant (TM) teen wasn't simply murdered for jaywalking while trying to surrender.

1. He assaulted the cop in the car, breaking facial bones
2. He tried to wrestle the cops gun away inside the car
3. He left the cop car and started to flee, then doubled back in a run at the cop

I don't know all the facts, and unless you were personally there, I don't think you know all the facts either. All we have are scattered input from various sources, and many of these sources are highly biased. They range from "Brown was trying to kill the cop, the cop acted properly" to "racist white cop murders innocent black teen for jaywalking". The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Don't be a tool and buy into either mindset fully, as you will be wrong.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...o-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/u...n-was-killed-after-struggle-for-gun.html?_r=0

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ing-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/

 

[snugglestruggle]

While the only thing I find remotely interesting about the OP is that it's a KingO c&p that came from somewhere other than Salon, I am intrigued by your response. What sort of evidence are you waiting for? I can understand a hesitance to make unsubstantiated or sensationalized claims, but I also think it's pretty clear that something is very wrong. We're talking about an unarmed teenager who was stopped for jaywalking and ended up dead on the pavement and riddled with bullets. I can't imagine a piece of evidence surfacing that mitigates how deeply fucked up that is. Of course, we filter everything through the lens of our own perception (and mine is freshly calibrated thanks to watching Eric Garner die on the street after an illegal police chokehold for LITERALLY NO REASON), but I think the Ferguson PD's response has also been a pretty clear bungle.

It's false to assume an unarmed person is not dangerous or a threat to someone's life. It depends on their actions. Choosing poorly always has bad consequences for the public and for law enforcement.

 

[zipman]

While the only thing I find remotely interesting about the OP is that it's a KingO c&p that came from somewhere other than Salon, I am intrigued by your response. What sort of evidence are you waiting for? I can understand a hesitance to make unsubstantiated or sensationalized claims, but I also think it's pretty clear that something is very wrong. We're talking about an unarmed teenager who was stopped for jaywalking and ended up dead on the pavement and riddled with bullets. I can't imagine a piece of evidence surfacing that mitigates how deeply fucked up that is. Of course, we filter everything through the lens of our own perception (and mine is freshly calibrated thanks to watching Eric Garner die on the street after an illegal police chokehold for LITERALLY NO REASON), but I think the Ferguson PD's response has also been a pretty clear bungle.

When this case was first reported I read that he was running away and was shot in the back. The autopsy (evidence) shows that isn't the case. I simply prefer having all the facts before making a decision as to whether or not someone is guilty.

Whenever you have an unarmed person shot dead it certainly makes it seem as though the officer is guilty. However, the officer's testimony says that he Brown was rushing towards him which is the only way I can think of that he could have been shot on the top of the head.

I just prefer not to join the mob rushing to judgment and want to hear the results of the investigation. I realize that's not a popular position but that's okay.

 

[nowisthetime]

Great post, I think I have seen a span of all ten on GB from the same three or four posters.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll
This troll (and the others as well) will go great lengths to justify the taking of black life. "He shouldn't have run," "he shouldn't have been sagging," "he shouldn't have been walking down the middle of the street," "he shouldn't have stolen something."

Right up until the "lay down and take it bitch or youz just a racist troll" bit...

Sorry KO they went full of shit at that point. If you get shot committing a heinous act against another person, you fucking deserved it.

Otherwise pretty much yea....

 

[Phelia]

There are a few things that appear to show the Gentle Giant (TM) teen wasn't simply murdered for jaywalking while trying to surrender.

1. He assaulted the cop in the car, breaking facial bones
2. He tried to wrestle the cops gun away inside the car
3. He left the cop car and started to flee, then doubled back in a run at the cop

I don't know all the facts, and unless you were personally there, I don't think you know all the facts either. All we have are scattered input from various sources, and many of these sources are highly biased. They range from "Brown was trying to kill the cop, the cop acted properly" to "racist white cop murders innocent black teen for jaywalking". The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Don't be a tool and buy into either mindset fully, as you will be wrong.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...o-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/u...n-was-killed-after-struggle-for-gun.html?_r=0

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ing-sharing-brown-doubled-back-toward-police/

Yeah, I'll pass on the "we don't know all the facts" lecture from the moron who selectively chooses which unsubstantiated, anonymously-sourced version of events to list as "fact."

It's false to assume an unarmed person is not dangerous or a threat to someone's life. It depends on their actions. Choosing poorly always has bad consequences for the public and for law enforcement.

Care to show me where I made that assumption?

But to your assertion, please explain how Eric Garner's "poor choices" (existing on a public street, I guess?) merited his "bad consequences" (the illegal chokehold that directly precipitated his death).

Thanks for the pointless input, though.

When this case was first reported I read that he was running away and was shot in the back. The autopsy (evidence) shows that isn't the case. I simply prefer having all the facts before making a decision as to whether or not someone is guilty.

Whenever you have an unarmed person shot dead it certainly makes it seem as though the officer is guilty. However, the officer's testimony says that he Brown was rushing towards him which is the only way I can think of that he could have been shot on the top of the head.

I just prefer not to join the mob rushing to judgment and want to hear the results of the investigation. I realize that's not a popular position but that's okay.

I've been around this crazy block long enough to know that you're an intelligent person who considers your opinions, and most of the time, I agree with them. No judgment here! I respect your ability to draw your own conclusions (not like the first ham sandwich with a keyboard I quoted). In this instance, your views differ from my own, and I'm just interested and trying to get perspective.

Anyway, I think we're having different conversations. I'm not even considering this in terms of whether the officer is "guilty" or not. I mean, he shot him. It's not up for debate. The contention point would be whether or not the circumstances justified that level of force, and my point is that I don't think that six bullets to the skull and torso is ever a justifiable level of force against an unarmed assailant. We're an advanced civilization. We put a man on the moon. I carry a magical computer that I control with a flick of my fingers with me everywhere I go. Surely we can find a way of subduing someone that does not involve a lethal spray of bullets. If the default reaction in police-civilian altercations is for the cop to shoot first and ask questions later, then I think it's time to step back and ask if they're being effective in their role of protecting the people.

At the end of the day, it's a polarizing event that's tragic and deeply sensitive on a number of levels. Like I said, we all have our lenses, and even your language betrays an us vs. them mentality. Putting everyone who disagrees with you in the box of a "mob rushing to judgement" reads, to me, as dismissive as the attitude you took issue with in your first post in this thread. I have applied my judgment to the situation and have readily admitted it, but I'm sure I'm just as anxious as you to hear the outcome of the investigation and am always willing to readjust my sails given new evidence.

And if we're avoiding rushing to judgment:

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating a wound at the top of Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”

From the forensic examiner.

 

[snugglestruggle]

While the only thing I find remotely interesting about the OP is that it's a KingO c&p that came from somewhere other than Salon, I am intrigued by your response. What sort of evidence are you waiting for? I can understand a hesitance to make unsubstantiated or sensationalized claims, but I also think it's pretty clear that something is very wrong. We're talking about an unarmed teenager who was stopped for jaywalking and ended up dead on the pavement and riddled with bullets. I can't imagine a piece of evidence surfacing that mitigates how deeply fucked up that is. Of course, we filter everything through the lens of our own perception (and mine is freshly calibrated thanks to watching Eric Garner die on the street after an illegal police chokehold for LITERALLY NO REASON), but I think the Ferguson PD's response has also been a pretty clear bungle.

It's false to assume an unarmed person is not dangerous or a threat to someone's life. It depends on their actions. Choosing poorly always has bad consequences for the public and for law enforcement.

Care to show me where I made that assumption?

But to your assertion, please explain how Eric Garner's "poor choices" (existing on a public street, I guess?) merited his "bad consequences" (the illegal chokehold that directly precipitated his death).

Thanks for the pointless input, though.

For the record I stated it's false to assume an unarmed person isn't dangerous or a threat, it depends on their actions. Clearly you've not been in very many fights. when someone that big puts their hands on you 6'4", 300lbs (not a fat out of shape 300lbs either) It's going to hurt. Fighting is not how it is in the movies, you get hit, it hurts. You get shot you bleed or die, It's not a videogame.

Conversely I've seen smaller guys beat the crap out of someone just using his fists, it depends on their skill, strength , their opponents ability. Which is why your view, no weapon = he wasn't dangerous or a threat is a false assumption.

Eric Garner, I actually wasn't referring to him but since you mention it ...I don't know what he was or wasn't guilty of but when the cops tell you to do something You shut the fuck up and comply. You don't have to like it and you can sue them afterwards but you comply. There were 6 cops that I could see on camera and they asked him more than once to comply.

Should they have jumped on him like a pack of lions and choked him? No but the fact remains he chose not to comply with a order from the police. They explained why he was being arrested at that point you say I want a lawyer and shut the fuck up. You don't try to win an argument with 6 cops.If he would have complied he'd be alive today, that's a fact.

 

[dolf]

The "Wait for Evidence" Troll
This troll may or may not be anonymous and pretends to be focused on respecting and upholding the law. "We don't know what happened yet," they say, "wait for evidence before you lambast an officer of the law." They pretend that things like racism, police brutality, police corruption, etc. don't exist and insist that if concrete evidence is released, they will be swayed to feel "sympathy" for Mike Brown. But they won't. When evidence arises, they find objection to its relevance or veracity. They then transform into The "Mike Brown Shouldn't Have [insert human action here]" Troll, to follow.

waiting for evidence is trolling? and, because they're waiting for evidence, they will transform into x troll if evidence appears?

I read no further than this and decided that it wasn't worth reading.

 

[Balladeer08]

So this is the Troll Booth?

 

[RobDownSouth]

waiting for evidence is trolling? and, because they're waiting for evidence, they will transform into x troll if evidence appears?

I read no further than this and decided that it wasn't worth reading.

The "wait for evidence" gambit is certainly trolling. There are two flavors of that here on Lit.

"Wait For Evidence - Vetteman flavor" simply indicates "It is unfair for you to discuss this matter until I have received suitable talking points and counter arguments from Fox and Friends"

"Wait For Evidence - Zipman/Ishmael flavor" is a rolling target where the goalposts are continually moved, as needed:

• Let's wait until the police finish their investigation
• Let's wait until the grand jury indicts
• Let's wait until the case goes to trial
• Let's wait until the jury give a verdict
• Let's wait until the Appeals courts have ruled
• Let's wait until the Supreme Court has ruled
• and finally...this again? This is OLD NEWS. It's time to move on

Unscrupulous police departments in America count on the Zipman/Ishmael demographic to help them out. It allows them to delay, defer and obfuscate an investigation, knowing the passage of time works to their favor. Usually...the Ferguson protests show the limits of this gambit.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Good fucking god.

The ten best responses to the fear and division of the Democrat party enumerated here in detail so that we know exactly which bogeymen they fear the most.

This author has done us a solid.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

waiting for evidence is trolling? and, because they're waiting for evidence, they will transform into x troll if evidence appears?

I read no further than this and decided that it wasn't worth reading.

Yes.

The first story told is the one they believe in the most. And any subsequent inconvenient facts that emerge will fall into one of the other nine categories. If you doubt the story, then you are some sort of inhumane monster.

So what if the documents are forged?

The story is True!
Dan Rather, former CBS News Anchor