That Pipeline

[4est_4est_Gump]

Wouldn't the Red-Green Brigade love that.



We know that they want to de-develop the United States.

A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States...,
John P. Holdren
White House Office of Science and Technology Director

 

[RobDownSouth]

The vocal opponents tipped their hand in their statement after Obama's statement. It was never about science or reason, it was all about symbolism.

BTW, have you been watching/reading the antics of the "Climate Change" crowd? The colder it gets the more panic stricken they're becoming. If it weren't so pathetic it'd be funny.

Ishmael

Yep, those of us who choose to exist in the reality-based world (as opposed to, say, you) certainly panicked when Senator James Inhofe brought a snowball onto the Senate floor recently.

Winter sure does disprove global warming, doesn't it?
*nods*

 

[Ishmael]

Wouldn't the Red-Green Brigade love that.



We know that they want to de-develop the United States.

A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States...,
John P. Holdren
White House Office of Science and Technology Director

Who's going to make the shit for the new buildings? Not us.

As far as who's going to be the workmen, I see hoards of newly minted Spanish speakers pulling sections of buildings up sand ramps on logs with ropes. Ahh, won't it be wonderful?

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Si...

 

[trysail]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...major-beneficiary-of-obama-s-keystone-xl-snub

ht tp://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-06/venezuela-seen-as-major-beneficiary-of-obama-s-keystone-xl-snub



Venezuela Seen as Major Beneficiary of Obama's Keystone XL Snub


by Pietro Pitts and Brian Wingfield
November 6, 2015

President Barack Obama’s rejection of TransCanada Corp.’s proposed Keystone XL pipeline could give Venezuela’s ailing economy a lifeline.

With the world’s largest oil reserves, the South American country produces heavy crude that’s similar in consistency to the one coming from Canada’s oil sands, and its economy relies largely on shipping it to the same U.S. Gulf Coast refineries that Keystone XL was meant to supply.

“The number one beneficiary of all this will be Venezuela and other suppliers of heavy oil that ship to the Gulf Coast by tanker,” IHS Energy Inc. Vice President Jim Burkhard said by e-mail.

Venezuela is facing an economic crisis as the price of crude, its main source of revenue, has plummeted by more than half since June last year to trade below $50 a barrel. The slump has caused a rift within the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, of which Venezuela is a member, as Saudi Arabia continues to pump crude from the ground at an unprecedented pace.

“Venezuela is facing what could end up being the largest external shock of its history,” Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Research analysts Francisco Rodriguez and Jane Brauer wrote in a Nov. 4 note to clients.

The nation has reacted to the crisis through a combination of import cuts and asset depletion and may further curb imports, they said.

Petroleum Income

Venezuela is more reliant than ever on petroleum earnings, which account for 95 percent of export income and almost half of government revenues, according to the country’s foreign ministry.

Venezuela’s Oil Minister Eulogio Del Pino last month said the country was exporting around 2.4 million barrels a day. Of that total, 1.3 million are destined for China and India. In August, Venezuela sent an estimated 935,000 barrels a day of oil to the U.S., according to EIA data.

Keystone XL, rejected Friday by Obama, would have spanned 1,179 miles (1,897 kilometers) from Alberta through three states -- Montana, North Dakota, and Nebraska -- before connecting to an existing pipeline network feeding crude to the Gulf refineries.

Obama, siding with an assessment from the State Department, said the Keystone XL project isn’t in the U.S. national interest and that it "would not make a meaningful long-term contribution to our national economy." He said it wouldn’t lower domestic gasoline and wouldn’t bolster U.S. energy security.

“This decision puts to shame Venezuela’s allegations that Obama is waging an economic war on Venezuela," Carlos Rossi, president of Caracas-based consulting firm EnergyNomics, said in a phone interview. "If Obama wanted to wage an economic war on Venezuela, approving this pipeline would have been an excellent way to do it. ”


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[4est_4est_Gump]

I think that analysis is flawed since Buffet has purchased the BNSF to import the oil:

http://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/04/canadian-oil-rides-south-even-without-keystone-pipeline.html

 

[Ishmael]

I think that analysis is flawed since Buffet has purchased the BNSF to import the oil:

http://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/04/canadian-oil-rides-south-even-without-keystone-pipeline.html

"Both" is an option as well. The ghost of Hugo haunts Obama as much as Buffets donations sustain him.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

His transformative model is clearly Venezuela sans oil revenues, you know, to save the world, to save the [starving] children...



Venezuela is kinda close to the equator.

President Obama wants to be the Great Equator!

 

[thør]

Some say it's uneconomic to mine the tar sands, now.

 

[trysail]

Some say it's uneconomic to mine the tar sands, now.

That's possible. However, as acknowledged, that assertion also ignores the violently cyclical nature of petroleum prices. You, as well as anyone around here, understands that this is a very, very long term business— one where it is not impossible for a decade to pass between initial investment and subsequent revenue.


WTI (Cushing) is currently around $43.00/barrel. For the third quarter of this year, Canadian Oil Sands Ltd. realized a price of ~ C$60.00 (~USD 45.25 @ C$1.3256/USD)/barrel for its Synthetic Crude Oil. Syncrude estimates that its 2015 Operating Expenses will be C$40.56/barrel (USD 30.60 @ C$1.3256/USD).


Suncor claims that its Oil Sands cash operating costs for the first six months of 2015 were C$28.20/barrel (~USD 21.27).


In any consideration, it must not be forgotten that the Athabaskan Oil Sand reserves are enormous, step-scalable and are extremely long-lived reserves (ignoring the effect of price, for the moment) located in an allied, adjacent, politically secure country which has a history of respect for the rule of law.



​

 

[Hard_Rom]

What is the argument against it?
Why does it go all the way to the Gulf?
Why doesn't Canada build a refinery nearer the source?
Why can't it go to Illinois where there is already excess refining capacity?


Addendum: iMan said one of my posts was 'hogwash' and his words are hurtful.

I'm all for building of refineries in Canada. Stupid for us to ship oil south and then buy it back as gasoline. Refinery workers should be skilled and well paid to avoid accidents. Shipping lumber to China and getting back cheap furniture is different. Don't like it much but world economy allows us to ship raw material to third world country for processing and still save money.

A pipeline east west across Canada makes better sense. We have idle refinery capability on the east coast. Lots of Canadian jobs created. With current low oil prices we should add value here not in Texas.

Normally I am an environmentalist but maybe the sooner we run out of oil the better. Burn it all up. But only at a rate that the world can absorb and still heal the damage caused.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Saudis can still make a profit as low as 20$ a barrel. Russians at 40$. The west needs 60$. I think. Tar sands I think are upwards of 80$.

 

[trysail]

[...can still make a profit]...oil sands I think are upwards of 80$.

Not according to Syncrude or Suncor.


To repeat:
Syncrude estimates that its 2015 Operating Expenses will be C$40.56/barrel (USD 30.60 @ C$1.3256/USD).


Suncor claims that its Oil Sands cash operating costs for the first six months of 2015 were C$28.20/barrel (~USD 21.27).


​

 

[Hard_Rom]

I was using this graphic as my source.

http://makewealthhistory.org/2014/12/16/break-even-points-for-oil-producers/

Large oil producing countries also rely on oil to balance budgets. Oil companies may still make a profit but governments higher prices.

 

[thør]

Those trains are the safe way to go!

Put a local hire provision in the clean-up regs.

 

[trysail]

Our belief that crude oil from the Canadian oil sands benefits the U.S. economy is why we are in favor of the Keystone [XL] Pipeline. Some of our critics allege we will earn a $20 billion profit if the Keystone Pipeline is built, but that is pure fantasy.

We estimate that Keystone would increase the price we pay for Canadian crude by roughly $3 per barrel because it would lower transportation costs to destinations other than our refinery. Recently we have been buying roughly 240,000 barrels per day of Canadian crude to run in our Minnesota refinery. Our Canadian crude oil production has been less than 100 barrel per day. Thus, if Keystone had been in operation it would have lowered Koch Industries’ overall profits by $260 million per year.

For the pipeline to make even one dollar more profitable (let alone $20 billion)–rather than less profitable–we would have to increase our Canadian production more than two-thousand-fold–which is far beyond the realm of possibility.

-Charles Koch
​

​

 

[trysail]

Build the motherfucker.


Git 'er done !!



​

 

[Conager]

I wasn't thinking about the pipeline but I was just thinking what are oil stocks doing today? almost all drilling has been on private land with public lands opening back up theoretically under Trump that could get pretty both the cost of production the cost of transportation if there are wells located in areas that are more advantageous that way. Lower energy costs is good for manufacturing helps us be competitive worldwide.

Plus it'll fun be fun to watch Phrodeau have an apoplectic meltdown.

I hope somebody is short selling railroad stocks and T Boone Pickens.

 

[Lancecastor]

Canada is totally fucktarded for not producing our own refined hydrocarbons and polymers.

But yeah, build keystone as well...hell we sell to the chinks, should sell to our neighbors first.

 

[Conager]

Canada is totally fucktarded for not producing our own refined hydrocarbons and polymers.

But yeah, build keystone as well...hell we sell to the chinks, should sell to our neighbors first.

Fuckin' A right, eh?

 

[Lancecastor]

Totally.

 

[Conager]

Totally.

You speak passable 'Murican. Must be your father's influence. I sort of think of you as the Winston Churchill of Canada.

 

[Dribble]

Not all oil is created equally. Hummmm. If a refinery has a choice....refine good crude or tar sands, and both is the same price per barrel, which will they do? End of story.

 

[Lancecastor]

You speak passable 'Murican. Must be your father's influence. I sort of think of you as the Winston Churchill of Canada.

I once picked up a woman in vancouver; she played winston churchills best speeches on her stereo, loud, while we fucked.

 

[phrodeau]

I once picked up a woman in vancouver; she played winston churchills best speeches on her stereo, loud, while we fucked.

Your voice wasn't doing it for her, eh?