Stuck on a scene? Just plagiarize!

[SimonDoom]

Really? Isn't there some degree of latitude here?

I agree that blatant cut-and-paste copying of mass amounts of another author's work is unethical, but I frequently come across adjectives, descriptive phrases, or other pieces of work that I find inspirational and fitting to a section of a story that I am writing.

For example, if another writer describes a female character exactly as I envision one of my female characters looking, I see nothing wrong with "emulating" (not copying) that description. Rather than saying, "She had radiant blonde hair, a perfect ass, and tits to die for," I might write, "Her radiant blonde hair hung almost to her perfect ass in back and teasingly hid her bare 'to die for' breasts."

Where is the line drawn between inspiration and plagiarism?

That combination of adjectives and nouns is so non-unique that there's no problem. There's nothing wrong with saying to yourself, "I like the way that author used 'radiant' to describe blonde hair, and I'm going to do that, too."

I think this is a "know it when you see it" test. It's hard to put into words. The example you gave seems OK to me, but if you did too much of it or cribbed the words more exactly, I would consider what you did unethical, if perhaps not quite infringement.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I like this approach:

"know it when you see it

As long as it is being viewed on both sides by people with comparable ethics and integrity.

 

[SimonDoom]

I like this approach:

As long as it is being viewed on both sides by people with comparable ethics and integrity.

Do you have a better approach? Is there a clearer, more objective test? Feel free to share if you have it.

 

[8letters]

I tried searching on some phrases from that sex scene, and didn't find obvious hits in other Literotica stories. So I'd guess he isn't just copy-and-pasting the text from other stories. Probably best option is to ask him for clarification, which I will now do.

edit: noting that he hasn't posted since November, so may be a while before there's a reply, but I'll post here when I get one.

The scene I started with is on page 6 and page 7 of "A Girl Named Mitch Ch. 02" (link). I can't find the story I pulled the vibrator use from. Something "Angel" or "Devil"?

My sex scene is halfway down this page.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Do you have a better approach? Is there a clearer, more objective test? Feel free to share if you have it.

No, I think that yours is appropriate as long as reasonable people are involved. Intelligent people should be able to compare two works and determine if there was plagiarism or inspiration involved between the two.

 

[SimonDoom]

Rule of thumb, do not go in my garage and 'borrow' my lawnmower without asking. Leaving a note saying, " Dear neighbour, had to use your mower. Hope you don't mind," will not suffice.

Bad analogy. Better analogy: If I happen to walk by your garage and see a lawnmower in it, I don't have to ask your permission to build my own lawnmower based on ideas I get from looking at yours. Unless it's got a valid patent on it. Then I (may) have to get permission from the patent owner. Otherwise, fair game.

 

[NC_Coastal]

That's what one Literotica writer does!



Source post.

Plagiarism is the deadliest of sins.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

There is one more than seven deadly sins, They shalt not purloin other's works, plagiarism a one way ticket to writers hell.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think 8letters just sees this as a chance to link his story and get more clicks on it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The scene I started with is on page 6 and page 7 of "A Girl Named Mitch Ch. 02" (link). I can't find the story I pulled the vibrator use from. Something "Angel" or "Devil"?

My sex scene is halfway down this page.

Thanks for the link. I'll post some comparisons here. Paragraphs marked "Mitch" are from "A Girl Named Mitch", paragraphs marked "8letters" are from "Are My Brother And Sister Lovers?" I have bolded the shared content that I noticed.

Mitch:

I thought she was going to tease me more, and I wasn't sure if I could take it, but instead she just wrapped her arms round my thighs and lowered her mouth to my sex. Nothing in my life had prepared me for the intensity of this single sensation, and I almost screamed into the evening as I pushed against her mouth. Her tongue slipped inside me and swirled around for a second before moving slowly up through my cleft. It surrounded my clit just before her lips pulled it into her mouth, sucking steadily for a few moments before letting it pop free.

8letters:

She took my hand and guided me to lie down on my back on the bed. Once I did so, she climbed onto the bed between my legs and moved towards me. She wrapped her arms around my thighs and lowered her mouth to my sex. Pleasure surged to fill my body. I almost screamed as I pushed against her mouth. Her tongue slipped inside me and swirled around for a second before moving slowly up through my cleft. It surrounded my pearl just before her lips pulled it into her mouth, sucking steadily for a few moments before letting it pop free. I lay limp on the bed, overwhelmed by the pleasure.

Mitch:

She alternated between the flat of her tongue and her soft lips, caressing up and down, sucking on my labia, flicking my nub, generally driving me insane. Nothing had ever felt so good, so intimate, and I surrendered myself to my lover on a deep, primal level.

8letters:

I heard Matthew doing something, so I looked over at him. He was still fully dressed and pulling something out of a drawer. And then Lizzy made a little circle with her tongue around my pearl, forcing Matthew out of my mind. I closed my eyes and focused on the pleasure Lizzy was giving me. She alternated between the flat of her tongue and her soft lips, caressing up and down, sucking on my labia, flicking my nub, generally driving me insane. Lizzy was far, far better than Suzette had ever been.

Mitch:

She was everywhere, but each time she came back to my little pearl she spent more time there, and after a bit it was the center of her attention, for which I was eternally grateful. I was soaring into the heavens. I grabbed my breast, squeezing and pinching, while my other hand reached down for Mitch. Her hand somehow found mine and our fingers intertwined. She sucked my clit into her mouth, and my body detonated in orgasm.

I cried out in one long tone, the volume rising and falling with each blissful pulse of joy. I collapsed back into our mattress, breathing heavily as my now super sensitive clit popped free from Mitch's mouth. She ran her fingers over my sex, me jerking with each aftershock.

8letters:

Lizzy said, "Take off your clothes." She must have been talking to Matthew. Then I heard a buzzing sound, and I felt something new pressing against my perineum. It was a vibrator, which was what Matthew must have gotten out of the drawer. I had never experienced a vibrator before. Lizzy played it over my labia, slipping it between them from time to time. What an amazing feeling. Nothing had ever felt so good. Meanwhile, Lizzy's mouth worked on my hard little nub at the top. Then Matthew surprised me by taking one of my nipples into his mouth and sucking on it. He pinched the other nipple and twisted it. It was too much. My body detonated in orgasm. I cried out in one long moan, the volume rising and falling with each blissful pulse of joy.

I collapsed back into the mattress, breathing heavily as my now super-sensitive pearl popped free from Lizzy's mouth. She ran her fingers over my sex, me jerking with each aftershock.

Mitch:

"Oh, wow, Mitch, that, I, oh, ooh!"

My lover's fingers circled my vagina for a moment before dipping inside, and an entirely new source of ecstasy began to flow through me. First one, then a second, curling up and caressing my front wall as her other hand feathered over my clit, rolling it between my swollen outer labia.

8letters:

"Oh, wow, Lizzy, that, I, oh, ooh!"

Lizzy pushed the vibrator deep into my pussy, and an entirely new source of ecstasy began to flow through me. Matthew continued to kiss, suck and bite on my breast. I could feel my juices flowing down my thighs. I used what little strength I had to reach up, grasp Matthew's head, and move it to my other breast. I had thought when I had orgasmed that my body had had all the pleasure it could take. But I wanted more now, and Matthew and Lizzy were giving it to me. She kept the vibrator moving side to side and up and down until I was gasping.



...okay, I've seen enough. That is way beyond what I'd consider acceptable, and I'm surprised I didn't pick up any of those common passages on the searches I did; I may have been unlucky in picking the wrong phrases to search for. [Edit: though I'm also finding that Google is not returning some pages with exact matches - even when I'm pasting directly from 8letters' story, the search doesn't always find that story.]

If somebody did this to one of my stories, I'd be reporting it.

 

[Voboy]

Yeah. I'm not impressed.

And anyone who uses "cleft," "sex," or "pearl" gets an immediate back-click from me, but that's just personal preference.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yeah. I'm not impressed.

And anyone who uses "cleft," "sex," or "pearl" gets an immediate back-click from me, but that's just personal preference.

Well....I'm guilty of one of the three.....

 

[ElectricBlue]

okay, I've seen enough. That is way beyond what I'd consider acceptable, and I'm surprised I didn't pick up any of those common passages on the searches I did; I may have been unlucky in picking the wrong phrases to search for.

If somebody did this to one of my stories, I'd be reporting it.

More than enough. Case closed, I'd say. The writer had a good reputation, now he's got another one. How foolish can you be?

 

[Euphony]

[visual aid]

Thank you for doing the work here. Curiosity was high but an easier form to compare made for a better understanding of goings on.

 

[SimonDoom]

Thanks to Bramblethorn for doing all that work to show the comparison. I was thinking about trying it but I'm sure it would have taken me three times as long.

This is clearly wrong, in my opinion. It's not a close call. It would have been fairly easy to take the source material, mix it up a bit, change things around, alter some words, and make it perfectly OK. But the author did not do that. This is just wholesale lifting of chunks of text.

Unlike Voboy, I have no problem with "sex," "cleft," or "pearl," so I don't fault the author for borrowing/using those terms, but the way in which this was done is not appropriate.

 

[KeithD]

Won't go further to add to the piling on, but, yes, I see that as plagiarism.

 

[GinnyPPC]

If somebody did this to one of my stories, I'd be reporting it.

I'd be livid if that was my work stolen. I have lost all respect for 8letters. I've seen classmates in graduate school get expelled for this level of plagiarism.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For example, if another writer describes a female character exactly as I envision one of my female characters looking, I see nothing wrong with "emulating" (not copying) that description. Rather than saying, "She had radiant blonde hair, a perfect ass, and tits to die for," I might write, "Her radiant blonde hair hung almost to her perfect ass in back and teasingly hid her bare 'to die for' breasts."

Where is the line drawn between inspiration and plagiarism?

I would consider that example to be over the line. Not a long way over, but over.

Here's a litmus test: if one reads the two, side by side, is it obvious that the writer of one passage has read the other?* In this case, I'd say yes. There are probably a million stories out there starring a blonde woman with a great ass and great tits, but how many would use the same specific combination of "radiant blonde", "perfect ass", "to die for"? Any one of them would be unremarkable, two might be coincidence, but all three? Even if the two of you were looking at the exact same picture of the exact same woman, it's unlikely that you'd hit on the same word choices to that degree.

*or other similar connection - sometimes the answer turns out to be "both of them copied off a third thing".

 

[TadOverdon]

"My body detonated in orgasm?"

Okay, so I've written worse. It's not even close.

 

[lovecraft68]

Thanks for the link. I'll post some comparisons here. Paragraphs marked "Mitch" are from "A Girl Named Mitch", paragraphs marked "8letters" are from "Are My Brother And Sister Lovers?" I have bolded the shared content that I noticed.

Mitch:

I thought she was going to tease me more, and I wasn't sure if I could take it, but instead she just wrapped her arms round my thighs and lowered her mouth to my sex. Nothing in my life had prepared me for the intensity of this single sensation, and I almost screamed into the evening as I pushed against her mouth. Her tongue slipped inside me and swirled around for a second before moving slowly up through my cleft. It surrounded my clit just before her lips pulled it into her mouth, sucking steadily for a few moments before letting it pop free.

8letters:

She took my hand and guided me to lie down on my back on the bed. Once I did so, she climbed onto the bed between my legs and moved towards me. She wrapped her arms around my thighs and lowered her mouth to my sex. Pleasure surged to fill my body. I almost screamed as I pushed against her mouth. Her tongue slipped inside me and swirled around for a second before moving slowly up through my cleft. It surrounded my pearl just before her lips pulled it into her mouth, sucking steadily for a few moments before letting it pop free. I lay limp on the bed, overwhelmed by the pleasure.

Mitch:

She alternated between the flat of her tongue and her soft lips, caressing up and down, sucking on my labia, flicking my nub, generally driving me insane. Nothing had ever felt so good, so intimate, and I surrendered myself to my lover on a deep, primal level.

8letters:

I heard Matthew doing something, so I looked over at him. He was still fully dressed and pulling something out of a drawer. And then Lizzy made a little circle with her tongue around my pearl, forcing Matthew out of my mind. I closed my eyes and focused on the pleasure Lizzy was giving me. She alternated between the flat of her tongue and her soft lips, caressing up and down, sucking on my labia, flicking my nub, generally driving me insane. Lizzy was far, far better than Suzette had ever been.

Mitch:

She was everywhere, but each time she came back to my little pearl she spent more time there, and after a bit it was the center of her attention, for which I was eternally grateful. I was soaring into the heavens. I grabbed my breast, squeezing and pinching, while my other hand reached down for Mitch. Her hand somehow found mine and our fingers intertwined. She sucked my clit into her mouth, and my body detonated in orgasm.

I cried out in one long tone, the volume rising and falling with each blissful pulse of joy. I collapsed back into our mattress, breathing heavily as my now super sensitive clit popped free from Mitch's mouth. She ran her fingers over my sex, me jerking with each aftershock.

8letters:

Lizzy said, "Take off your clothes." She must have been talking to Matthew. Then I heard a buzzing sound, and I felt something new pressing against my perineum. It was a vibrator, which was what Matthew must have gotten out of the drawer. I had never experienced a vibrator before. Lizzy played it over my labia, slipping it between them from time to time. What an amazing feeling. Nothing had ever felt so good. Meanwhile, Lizzy's mouth worked on my hard little nub at the top. Then Matthew surprised me by taking one of my nipples into his mouth and sucking on it. He pinched the other nipple and twisted it. It was too much. My body detonated in orgasm. I cried out in one long moan, the volume rising and falling with each blissful pulse of joy.

I collapsed back into the mattress, breathing heavily as my now super-sensitive pearl popped free from Lizzy's mouth. She ran her fingers over my sex, me jerking with each aftershock.

Mitch:

"Oh, wow, Mitch, that, I, oh, ooh!"

My lover's fingers circled my vagina for a moment before dipping inside, and an entirely new source of ecstasy began to flow through me. First one, then a second, curling up and caressing my front wall as her other hand feathered over my clit, rolling it between my swollen outer labia.

8letters:

"Oh, wow, Lizzy, that, I, oh, ooh!"

Lizzy pushed the vibrator deep into my pussy, and an entirely new source of ecstasy began to flow through me. Matthew continued to kiss, suck and bite on my breast. I could feel my juices flowing down my thighs. I used what little strength I had to reach up, grasp Matthew's head, and move it to my other breast. I had thought when I had orgasmed that my body had had all the pleasure it could take. But I wanted more now, and Matthew and Lizzy were giving it to me. She kept the vibrator moving side to side and up and down until I was gasping.



...okay, I've seen enough. That is way beyond what I'd consider acceptable, and I'm surprised I didn't pick up any of those common passages on the searches I did; I may have been unlucky in picking the wrong phrases to search for. [Edit: though I'm also finding that Google is not returning some pages with exact matches - even when I'm pasting directly from 8letters' story, the search doesn't always find that story.]

If somebody did this to one of my stories, I'd be reporting it.

This is the best detective work since someone (cough cough) was bagged for commenting on their own stories.
I'm going to hire you next time I need a PI

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is the best detective work since someone (cough cough) was bagged for commenting on their own stories.
I'm going to hire you next time I need a PI

You're very kind, but with the two links provided, it was just about scrolling through them side by side. I'm still annoyed that I wasn't able to find the story through searching.

 

[lovecraft68]

"My body detonated in orgasm?"

Okay, so I've written worse. It's not even close.

I used to say "exploded into orgasm" kind of the same....sigh

 

[lovecraft68]

You have a lot of patience
What's crazy about this is it never would have come up if the author wasn't posting threads to go on and on about their process. A completely self inflicted wound.

 

[SimonDoom]

You have a lot of patience
What's crazy about this is it never would have come up if the author wasn't posting threads to go on and on about their process. A completely self inflicted wound.

There's no error like the unforced error.

 

[lilshymynx]

Thanks for your quick and thorough review of the stories, Bramblethorn.

For the record, I contacted 8letters directly about this as soon as I saw his post and gave him an opportunity to right the wrong. It was only after he did nothing that I came here.

This saddens me greatly as I've been a past beta reader for him, but it is what it is.

I breaks my heart when authors like FemmeyFemmeFemme quit writing here and remove their works because someone chose to steal them. It hurts even more to see of one your own do it.