Story Discussion: June 24, 2009. "That'll teach you!" by jacks4u

[jacks4u]

Hi, all!

This is a first submission, but has not been posted yet, so the story will follow. I filed it under Humor and Satire, and is about 950 words, quite short by literotica standards.

I certainly hope you all enjoy reading it.

jacks4u

 

[jacks4u]

"That'll teach you", by jacks4u

I'm a reasonable guy, I think. In some ways, more than reasonable.

I work hard to keep a nice house in a fairly upscale neighborhood. Hard enough in fact, that Julia, my spouse of more than nine years, doesn't have to work at all. There's still a little left over to build a small savings account, as well as keep two nice cars and sizable IRAs for eventual retirement.

Julia is quite petite, standing just about five feet tall, with attractive curves in all the right places, and definitely more than a mouthful of hot, sweet breast.

Her flaming red hair is so sexy, and speaks more about her attitude and approach to life's problems. It certainly speaks volumes about her lovemaking and passion.

Just as fire consumes all it encounters, so too does Julia. In bed, or wherever we have sex, it is always hot! Often, she climaxes many times, and eventually leaves me exhausted, consumed by the fires that burn under that flaming red pussy hair.

It was a real surprise then, several months ago, when I discovered she was having sex with another guy. I'd found her cum soaked panties in the wash, the lucky guy's semen dried and stiff inside her red satin thong. It couldn't have been mine, we hadn't made love in several days, and that had been in the morning, before her shower. I didn't say anything, though, figuring she needed a little something extra now and then to tide her over until I could pay attention to her needs.

A week or so later, I was so horny and ready to rape her when she came home from her weekly shopping trip, but she was uncharacteristically tired, and didn't want to make love.

My kisses fell on dispassionate lips, her nipples flat, unresponsive to my caresses.

But Julia loved sucking my cock, almost as much as breathing. In our entire relationship, she had never left me horny, and not at least offered me a blow job.

Many mornings, I'd awaken to her lips wrapped around my morning wood, always swallowing my spunk and licking her lips clean, before kissing me good morning. She gave the most wonderful blow jobs, and seemed to relish, no, worship my better than average eight inches of man meat.

It was under these conditions, no sex at home, and my petite, though well endowed copper topped wife giving it all to some stranger, that I finally sought relief in whatever way I could.

I found a hooker, perhaps in a seedier part of town, but she was very cute - big tits falling all out of her too tight halter top, slender waist and hips that swung to and fro with her walk.

Her furry, full bush and untrimmed pussy felt quite different than my Julia's triangle shaped landing strip of flaming red hair. But that just added to my excitement.

The hooker's bleach blond head of long curls added some to my excitement also, as it bobbed up and down on my rock hard shaft. Only she didn't have the finesse my Julia did. I turned her over, and gave her all eight inches, until she squealed and I busted a nut, my spunk filling the end of the cheap condom she demanded I wear.

As I quietly pondered my situation, my cute little fire ball was off giving her new lover all of her attention. Several afternoons in a row she came home and just crashed without a word, other than the usual pleasantries.

My brief attempts at conversation were met with concise, generic answers. The second day was like this, “Hi, hon, do you have any bags in the car? I'll go get them.”

Her less than candid answer, “Oh, no bags, I didn't see anything I wanted,” left me feeling as though she was somehow skirting the truth.

It was that evening, I noticed these little critters crawling all over my pubes, and making my cock itch like a bad case of athletes foot! I was really glad that Julia hadn't wanted to make love, and was sweating bullets worrying about what to do about these fucking crabs!

By the third day of her extramarital sex binge I finally had a plan to fix everything - I'd show her!

That night, after she came home late and went right to bed, I climbed in the sack with her, and started feeling her up. I licked and kissed her small, hard nipples, nipping them every so often. Soon she was kneading my cock to life. I moved up and kissed her mouth and neck, nibbling on her earlobes and doing a duet for two tongues.

Her tongue chased after mine then mine after hers, Then I went back to her ample breasts, and those now so hard nipples.

I did all I could to keep her mouth from seeking out my crab infested cock!

Finally, I entered her and pounded her tight, dripping wet pussy, thrusting those little fucking chiggers into her flaming red triangle, until we both climaxed and fell asleep.

The next morning, I was up first and in the bathroom when I heard her start to stir.

"Bitch!" I yelled at no one in particular, from the bathroom, and continued to curse, “Mother fucking little bitches!”

Finally, she was standing in the bathroom doorway, rubbing the sleep from her eyes. "Your fucking boyfriend gave you the crabs to bring home to me," I lied, picking one of the little fuckers off my pubes, and flicking it her way.

My cute little fiery red head just stared at me with her hand over her mouth, her whole face as red as her hair.

 

[jacks4u]

What I want to know:

I'd like to know a few thing specifically:

1: Does first person, past tense really work here?

2: Is there enough description of Julia? ie could I have made her more real?

3: I know the narrator/husband has little or no description, is this a problem?

4: There was little dialog, would more have been effective. If so, where?

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?

6: were there any problems that I haven't specifically asked about?
(grammar, spelling, word choice, etc...)

You might be able to tell from my questions, I'm not looking to be molly-coddled, am not thin skinned, and am seriously looking for honest critique, to help me grow as a writer.

Direct specific and to the point is appropriate here, though I'll take whatever critique you have to offer.

Thanks in advance,

jacks4u

 

[manyeyedhydra]

The punchline got a little titter from me. The rest of the story felt a little flat though.

Julia isn't a strong character. I think it's because you've got too much telling rather than showing. Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 would have been better off him describing a recent bout of sex with Julia. You can sneak in all the descriptive stuff about her hair, etc, while describing the sex. That way we can see why he thinks she's hot and it's more interesting than reading a flat list of attributes.

Same for his other activities. There isn't much humour outside of his audacious blaming of her for his indiscretions. The whole story feels like it's just a setup for the final paragraph. It's good that it gets there quickly, but there's not much to it.

Maybe you could make more of his sessions with the whore. He picked up crabs from her so there's got to be more potential for some gross out humour there.

 

[driphoney]

It takes a lot of courage to post a first story here, so thanks for sharing. As I usually say, I'm extremely under-qualified to critique and prefer to read the excellent feedback given here by other authors. However, I like the discussion thread, and it seems to be dying, so I try to participate when a story comes along I feel I might be able to comment on. Such as it's worth.

1: Does first person, past tense really work here?
Yeah, that's fine. For some reason beginner writers are encouraged to write in third person, and I'd love to know why. I find it more of a struggle.

2: Is there enough description of Julia? ie could I have made her more real?
I agree with Manyeyedhydra, 'sneak' it in during activity. I'll take as much or as little description as a writer gives me and enjoy it, if it's sprinkled in. But, personally, I prefer the writer to trust me. I don't need all the description handed on a platter. My mind likes to fill in. Do you ever notice in a story how some writers actually give you very little physical description, but, by the end, you've completely constructed the character, and you love her/him?

3: I know the narrator/husband has little or no description, is this a problem?
Thinking this through, here are my thoughts: When a story is told in first person, it's as if the writer is sitting across from me telling what happened. When my friends and family tell me their stories, they don't ever describe themselves physically. They describe in detail how they feel, but not how they look, they don't care and I already know. So, when the narrator of a story self-describes I find it off-putting, especially when he seems to be bragging about his 8 in. dick. First, it doesn't feel real, so it suspends my believability, and when shoving my mind back into the story, I now like the narrator less, the little braggart!


4: There was little dialog, would more have been effective. If so, where?
Yes. Oh, yes. This is just my opinion, and as you can see by my own writing, I have a long way to go as a writer, so bear this in mind as I ramble on here. To me your story feels more like a letter of events, or a somewhat detailed outline. To flesh it out, breathe life into it, you would need to add a lot of story which would include dialogue. Usually, unless the writer is cunning and talented and tricks me with their talent, I want to see some dialogue by the fourth paragraph. I really loved your title and first two paragraphs. Maybe you could take that bit, open a fresh page, then blow-by-blow think through what your male character is doing. Describe that along with his feelings. The wife needs to appear soon. And they need to talk. We don't need to know every minute of life, but we need to be in the room with them during the high points. We need to 'watch' it.

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?
I was too busy being grossed out.

6: were there any problems that I haven't specifically asked about?
(grammar, spelling, word choice, etc...)
For me, there is no erotic sex. The first described sex isn't erotic because it's short and the wife takes all the heat out of it, then the next two encounters have people catching crabs. Sort of a nightmare there, don't ya think? I don't know if there's a 'market' for this type of sex on Lit, but if so ... go for it!

Well, there ya go.

 

[jacks4u]

The punchline got a little titter from me. The rest of the story felt a little flat though.

Glad you enjoyed the punch line. I have been fortunate enough to discover the writer's exercises in the AH forum, but sadly, not before penning this story. Hopefully, with diligent study, and application of what I learn here and there, future stories will be markedly different.

Julia isn't a strong character. I think it's because you've got too much telling rather than showing. Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 would have been better off him describing a recent bout of sex with Julia. You can sneak in all the descriptive stuff about her hair, etc, while describing the sex. That way we can see why he thinks she's hot and it's more interesting than reading a flat list of attributes.

The physical attribute stuff comes from a few stories I've read right here, on lit. I was consciously trying to avoid dimensions, but somehow, I missed the boat entirely.

Same for his other activities. There isn't much humor outside of his audacious blaming of her for his indiscretions. The whole story feels like it's just a setup for the final paragraph. It's good that it gets there quickly, but there's not much to it.

yea, I did write the story as a setup for the final paragraph. Actually, to be honest with myself, I didn't pay as much attention to the details as I should have, and was instead focused on getting to the end. This is definitely something I can take to other stories. Thank you for being honest with me here.

Maybe you could make more of his sessions with the whore. He picked up crabs from her so there's got to be more potential for some gross out humor there.

I never thought about that!


In all, thank you for taking the time to read and tell me your thoughts on this story.

 

[jacks4u]

It takes a lot of courage to post a first story here, so thanks for sharing. As I usually say, I'm extremely under-qualified to critique and prefer to read the excellent feedback given here by other authors. However, I like the discussion thread, and it seems to be dying, so I try to participate when a story comes along I feel I might be able to comment on. Such as it's worth.

From where I'm at, everyone here knows at least as much as I do about writing good stories, and most know a whole lot more. In any case, a reader knows what (s)he likes and dislikes, and I value the opportunity to hear that feedback.

1: Does first person, past tense really work here?
Yeah, that's fine. For some reason beginner writers are encouraged to write in third person, and I'd love to know why. I find it more of a struggle.

It just seemed to me that this was the voice that this story should be told in.

2: Is there enough description of Julia? ie could I have made her more real?
I agree with Manyeyedhydra, 'sneak' it in during activity. I'll take as much or as little description as a writer gives me and enjoy it, if it's sprinkled in. But, personally, I prefer the writer to trust me. I don't need all the description handed on a platter. My mind likes to fill in. Do you ever notice in a story how some writers actually give you very little physical description, but, by the end, you've completely constructed the character, and you love her/him?

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I've read extensively, mostly Sci-fi classics, and enjoyed the vast majority. In all, I've never, except here on literotica, read a story that described a person in dimensions. Oh, on occasion, an author would describe some physical attribute or other in detail. Robert A. Heinlein linked one character's general mood to the erectness her nipples, if I recall correctly. Even that was never quantified, though. Usually it was all slipped in slowly, to allow the reader to build his or her own mental image. I should be so lucky as to attain even a portion of that skill and ability!

3: I know the narrator/husband has little or no description, is this a problem?
Thinking this through, here are my thoughts: When a story is told in first person, it's as if the writer is sitting across from me telling what happened. When my friends and family tell me their stories, they don't ever describe themselves physically. They describe in detail how they feel, but not how they look, they don't care and I already know. So, when the narrator of a story self-describes I find it off-putting, especially when he seems to be bragging about his 8 in. dick. First, it doesn't feel real, so it suspends my believability, and when shoving my mind back into the story, I now like the narrator less, the little braggart!

Perhaps this error is in my slightly antiquated view of marital relations. I was trying to express that even though the narrator was ok with his wife screwing around on him, it wasn't because he was somehow incapable of physically satisfying his spouse. I was trying to show that he was ready, willing, and able to send her to that happy place, but that he was perhaps more into satisfying himself than her. Thus the petulance and attitude at the end of the story.

Actually, disliking the narrator is perfectly acceptable. Personally, I find his actions horrifying, though to my warped sense of humor, kind of funny.

I will, however, keep in mind that self describing should be done with much more care, if at all.

4: There was little dialog, would more have been effective. If so, where?
Yes. Oh, yes. This is just my opinion, and as you can see by my own writing, I have a long way to go as a writer, so bear this in mind as I ramble on here. To me your story feels more like a letter of events, or a somewhat detailed outline. To flesh it out, breathe life into it, you would need to add a lot of story which would include dialogue. Usually, unless the writer is cunning and talented and tricks me with their talent, I want to see some dialogue by the fourth paragraph. I really loved your title and first two paragraphs. Maybe you could take that bit, open a fresh page, then blow-by-blow think through what your male character is doing. Describe that along with his feelings. The wife needs to appear soon. And they need to talk. We don't need to know every minute of life, but we need to be in the room with them during the high points. We need to 'watch' it.

I knew something was wrong here, but for the life of me, couldn't figure out what. Thank you so much for pointing me in this direction.

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?
I was too busy being grossed out.

I know this is a topic that is not universally humorous, and as manyeyedhydra pointed out, there seem to be areas of opportunity, where I might add some sort of sick/twisted (or not) humor, to round it out a bit.

6: were there any problems that I haven't specifically asked about?
(grammar, spelling, word choice, etc...)
For me, there is no erotic sex. The first described sex isn't erotic because it's short and the wife takes all the heat out of it, then the next two encounters have people catching crabs. Sort of a nightmare there, don't ya think? I don't know if there's a 'market' for this type of sex on Lit, but if so ... go for it!

hmmm. I never thought about it like that. I honestly hadn't thought about who might want to actually read this.

Now it comes back to me - from a 'creative writing' class I took about 10 years ago - rule #1 - know your audience.

Well, there ya go.

Thank you very much for your time, honest evaluation of my story, and the thoughtful comments. You have given me much to think about, and I sincerely appreciate that.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Jacks,

I found this an effective little piece, but now that I read your questions I have to wonder if it affected me in the manner you intended? I can see the satire part, but not the humor.

1: Does first person, past tense really work here?
Yes, I think it was the absolutely the right choice.

2: Is there enough description of Julia? i.e. could I have made her more real?
It really depends on what you had in mind. If your plan was to show how superficial the narrator is, the descriptions were a clever way to accomplish this.

3: I know the narrator/husband has little or no description, is this a problem?
Not at all.

4: There was little dialog, would more have been effective. If so, where?
More, please!

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?
Aside from the narrator imagining that I cared how big he was, I didn't find anything humorous about this tale.

This revelation suggested he was ever so shallow: I didn't say anything, though, figuring she needed a little something extra now and then to tide her over until I could pay attention to her needs. At first, I had a difficult time believing his reaction, but then I decided he might view his wife to be nothing more than a provider of sex. If so, then his attitude and behavior were both suddenly plausible.

The part that really made me cringe was this snippet: I busted a nut, my spunk filling the end of the cheap condom she demanded I wear. So he wouldn't have worn a condom otherwise? To me, that says he's ok with giving his wife a lot more than just lice!

I really disliked the narrator- and I mean that in a good way! Isn't it amazing how he seems so satisfied with his absurd little triumph? Great job showing us a real loser inadvertently revealing himself through his own words.

Of course, her behavior is also far from noble, but he appears to have her trapped financially, so I can see why she might not imagine herself able to just leave him.

For me, you subtly revealed a couple and their hollow relationship and the more I think about them, the more melancholy their story becomes.

Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Penelope Street]

The punchline got a little titter from me.

Glad you enjoyed the punch line.

I think I missed the punchline!

In any case, a reader knows what (s)he likes and dislikes, and I value the opportunity to hear that feedback.

Well said!

 

[michchick98]

I'd like to know a few thing specifically:

1: Does first person, past tense really work here?

In this instance, I don't think this story could've been told in third person. I've read good stories written in first person and good ones written in third. It's all in how the writer conveys his/her "message" that makes the story enjoyable.

2: Is there enough description of Julia? ie could I have made her more real?

"Show don't tell" is good in any story. However, if you get right down to actual physical description (she had nice 34C breasts, etc) it can be a deterrent. At least for me. Leave something to the reader's imagination. Describing her appearance in so far as body shape or hair color is always a good thing, it allows the reader to picture the character in his/her mind.

That being said, I think you did well with her description.

3: I know the narrator/husband has little or no description, is this a problem?

I have to agree with DH on this. If someone were telling me this story, I'd already know what he looked like so him describing himself wouldn't be necessary. However, it does go back to the show, don't tell theory. Perhaps a segment where he was vainly admiring himself in the mirror and describing to the reader how he saw himself would've helped. Just my opinion.

4: There was little dialog, would more have been effective. If so, where?

I'm a big believer in use of lots of dialogue. It can often help tell the story, no matter the point of view. So yes, I would've liked to have seen more dialogue. This read more as an essay or transcript than a story.

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?

I'm not a big fan of "gross-out humor" so I didn't really find it all that humorous. The end left me hanging a bit as well. Perhaps more of the reaction of Julia after he flicked the crabs at her or get into more depth about her extra marital affair, or his.

Perhaps even describing the hooker in this story as one who was past her time but out to make a few bucks to supplement her retirement or something? Well, yeah, more gross out humor, but it'd be humorous to me in the aspect that all the husband could find was an "old hag" to slake his lust and exact his revenge against his cheating wife.

6: were there any problems that I haven't specifically asked about?
(grammar, spelling, word choice, etc...)

The only problem I do have is the fact that he contracted crabs from the hooker, but he was wearing a condom when he screwed her. I think even cheap condoms would stop such an infestation, wouldn't they? Although, I can't speak from experience on this.

You might be able to tell from my questions, I'm not looking to be molly-coddled, am not thin skinned, and am seriously looking for honest critique, to help me grow as a writer.

Direct specific and to the point is appropriate here, though I'll take whatever critique you have to offer.

All in all, the story, for its context, was well written. I did, as I said, find the ending a bit lacking, and gross-out humor isn't my thing, but if others like it, well I think you've accomplished what you set out to do.

Thanks for sharing and thanks for the opportunity to edit.

 

[jacks4u]

Life's road bumps.

I'm still here, reading all of these good comments, and learning, trying to somehow adjust the way I write. Nay! Adjust the way I think while writing!.

Life has, however, thrown up a slight bump in my road, nothing new, or adverse. It's just that my time will be, for a few days, divided between this discussion and the fact that I must help my oldest son move to a new house.

I suppose I was blindsided by my wife on this. or maybe I was just preoccupied to the point of distraction.


Penny, I've read your comments about 5 times now. I'm really struggling with the complete polarization of responses. And flattered that this story would elicit such emotion from some readers.

Sheri, please forgive me, for not mentioning the fast and efficient job of editing that you did, in the intro to this thread. You did, quite literally, pull my fat out of the fire. Thank you

 

[michchick98]

Sheri, please forgive me, for not mentioning the fast and efficient job of editing that you did, in the intro to this thread. You did, quite literally, pull my fat out of the fire. Thank you

The thanks for editing isn't necessary but appreciated. Glad I could help. Have fun helping your son move.

 

[driphoney]

Penny, I've read your comments about 5 times now. I'm really struggling with the complete polarization of responses. And flattered that this story would elicit such emotion from some readers.

So true! Penny's comments have given me something to think about, too. Maybe I read the story completely wrong. Maybe I was being too shallow of a reader, not looking at the subtleties, or maybe the obvious.

I love this thread!

 

[jacks4u]

Hi Jacks,

I found this an effective little piece, but now that I read your questions I have to wonder if it affected me in the manner you intended? I can see the satire part, but not the humor.

Not too surprising, I expected different readers to have different experiences with this story, There's a lot of controversy built into it. from his attitude toward extramarital sex, to her reaction to what the reader knows is a false accusation

1: Does first person, past tense really work here?
Yes, I think it was the absolutely the right choice.

I was somehow nervous about this, but could find no other voice that fit.

2: Is there enough description of Julia? i.e. could I have made her more real?
It really depends on what you had in mind. If your plan was to show how superficial the narrator is, the descriptions were a clever way to accomplish this.

I'm not entirely sure I had a concrete goal for his character's personality, except that he would never be able to stand on some sort of moral high ground.

I'd started with the end of the story, the situation where he wrongly accuses her and more importantly, her boyfriend, of being dirty, bad people. But in fact the reader knows differently.

then I built the characters toward that end

4: There was little dialog, would more have been effective. If so, where?
More, please!

I actually removed a short scene, prior to my first, failed submission. That scene was near the beginning, around the third or fourth paragraph. It had her asking about taking a job, perhaps to help financially.

My purpose there was to show how bored she was with her life. But between her request and his noncommittal response, I just couldn't seem to work out the dialog. I now see that removing it was a big mistake, instead I should have 'worked through the burn' and tried harder to make that right.

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?
Aside from the narrator imagining that I cared how big he was, I didn't find anything humorous about this tale.

I think it was important to the narrator, For his character to be measured by the size of his member. This guy really is a sleaze bag. I didn't consciously plan him as such, but for me, the humor is the situation, at the end where he's trying to pull her back into the fold, so to speak.Throughout the story his actions are more centered on his sexual gratification, his needs.

I personally wonder, if Julia were allowed to tell her story, whether he (the narrator) is really acting in his own best interest

This revelation suggested he was ever so shallow: I didn't say anything, though, figuring she needed a little something extra now and then to tide her over until I could pay attention to her needs. At first, I had a difficult time believing his reaction, but then I decided he might view his wife to be nothing more than a provider of sex. If so, then his attitude and behavior were both suddenly plausible.

Again, this guy really was not intended to be the kind/loving husband he really thought he was. I wasn't consciously steering him in this direction. It does seem to me now that he is an 'unreliable narrator', in that he had no problem lying to himself, his cheating wife, and to some extent his audience.

The part that really made me cringe was this snippet: I busted a nut, my spunk filling the end of the cheap condom she demanded I wear. So he wouldn't have worn a condom otherwise? To me, that says he's ok with giving his wife a lot more than just lice!

The point I was trying to make here, was his indignation at having to wear something akin to a rubber dish glove, as opposed to a surgical glove – the prior allows for almost no feeling, the later designed to minimize the loss of feeling and sensation, rather than him being willing to catch the never-get-overs, and transmit them to his spouse, or others. I'm not sure I wanted to make him that much of an ass.

Hmmm more room for improvement here, as well.

I really disliked the narrator- and I mean that in a good way! Isn't it amazing how he seems so satisfied with his absurd little triumph? Great job showing us a real loser inadvertently revealing himself through his own words.

So, you did find the humor? Only you didn't think it particularly funny or laughable.

Of course, her behavior is also far from noble, but he appears to have her trapped financially, so I can see why she might not imagine herself able to just leave him.

Again, I had removed a scene where she was expressing just that. My failing here was two fold 1) I couldn't figure out the dialog to my satisfaction, and 2) I removed it rather than find a solution.

This story suffered immensely from that deletion..

For me, you subtly revealed a couple and their hollow relationship and the more I think about them, the more melancholy their story becomes.

Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Take Care,
Penny

Thanks for all your thoughtful comments, for reading my story, and for really forcing me to examine my motives and goals with this story – Perhaps I should have done some of this before actually writing it...

Jacks4u

 

[jacks4u]

"Show don't tell" is good in any story. However, if you get right down to actual physical description (she had nice 34C breasts, etc) it can be a deterrent. At least for me. Leave something to the reader's imagination. Describing her appearance in so far as body shape or hair color is always a good thing, it allows the reader to picture the character in his/her mind.

That being said, I think you did well with her description.

Thanks for the kind words here. I did struggle somewhat to get the right balance, but still, I think i could have done a lot better.

I have to agree with DH on this. If someone were telling me this story, I'd already know what he looked like so him describing himself wouldn't be necessary. However, it does go back to the show, don't tell theory. Perhaps a segment where he was vainly admiring himself in the mirror and describing to the reader how he saw himself would've helped. Just my opinion.

Another idea I'd never thought of! Thank you.

I'm a big believer in use of lots of dialogue. It can often help tell the story, no matter the point of view. So yes, I would've liked to have seen more dialogue. This read more as an essay or transcript than a story.

I now understand fully, this is a big failing of this story. And I fear, a shortcoming of mine. I'll have to work extra hard to overcome this.

I say this, because, in my mind I often picture myself or someone else saying some thing, but rarely do I hear, in my mind's ear, a response. and almost never a full fledged conversation with my imagination.

I'm not a big fan of "gross-out humor" so I didn't really find it all that humorous. The end left me hanging a bit as well. Perhaps more of the reaction of Julia after he flicked the crabs at her or get into more depth about her extra marital affair, or his.


Perhaps even describing the hooker in this story as one who was past her time but out to make a few bucks to supplement her retirement or something? Well, yeah, more gross out humor, but it'd be humorous to me in the aspect that all the husband could find was an "old hag" to slake his lust and exact his revenge against his cheating wife.

Lol! More great ideas. Perhaps I penned this story a bit too soon. Or maybe just rushed through it, without much thought to 'fleshing out' the story. More food for thought. I do appreciate the honest feedback here.

The only problem I do have is the fact that he contracted crabs from the hooker, but he was wearing a condom when he screwed her. I think even cheap condoms would stop such an infestation, wouldn't they? Although, I can't speak from experience on this.

'Crabs' are actually similar to head lice, in that they live in pubic hair. If Julia had been clean shaven, down 'there', there would have been no point at all to the story, because she could not have gotten them from any one. This is why I wrote the hooker with a 'full bush'.

If you really want to know my one experience with pubic lice, PM me, and I'll tell you the whole story

All in all, the story, for its context, was well written. I did, as I said, find the ending a bit lacking, and gross-out humor isn't my thing, but if others like it, well I think you've accomplished what you set out to do.

Thanks for sharing and thanks for the opportunity to edit.

Thank you! for the wonderful comments, and insight into how I could better my story, and even enhance my writing abilities.

And thanks again, for the speedy and accurate edit - It seemed to me, that I'd no more than hit the 'send', then went to check the forums, and discovered your PM that it was done. I was truly amazed!

 

[jacks4u]

Accepted!

As a short aside, this story has been accepted, and can be found _here_

What I find interesting, is the two comments left thus far are diametrically opposed, and both differ from anything we've been discussing

 

[Penelope Street]

Penny, I've read your comments about 5 times now.

That's at least four times too many.

The first thing I noticed about this story was the sloppy narration style, especially the reliance on exposition, but also what I took to be a lack of focus and the inclusion of extraneous information. I kinda filed it all under 'novice writer' until I got to the line I mentioned earlier: I didn't say anything, though, figuring she needed a little something extra now and then to tide her over until I could pay attention to her needs. That's where I stopped and gave it some more thought because, to me, his attitude is just so far out there in Loserland. I began to wonder if the sloppy storytelling might be intentional and ever so appropriate- why would a total loser tell his story with anything resembling artfulness?

So I started reading it again with that in mind. When I did that, the line about him taking care of her financially jumped right out at me. Sure, he's still bragging, but it was no longer extraneous bragging. Did I read too much into it? It really depends on what you meant to accomplish with that line.

In the big scheme of things, it sounds as if I more or less pictured the characters you intended to create. The principal issue seems to be that I took their situation seriously and found it tragic rather than humorous.

It does seem to me now that he is an 'unreliable narrator', in that he had no problem lying to himself, his cheating wife, and to some extent his audience.

Yes, I'd say he's unreliable, but I don't really think he's lying- he's just giving us his warped version of the truth.

The point I was trying to make here, was his indignation at having to wear something akin to a rubber dish glove, as opposed to a surgical glove – the prior allows for almost no feeling, the later designed to minimize the loss of feeling and sensation, rather than him being willing to catch the never-get-overs, and transmit them to his spouse, or others. I'm not sure I wanted to make him that much of an ass.

So cheap is the operative word in that sentence? Too funny- that went right over my head. So did she insist he wear the cheap condom instead of a good one? If so, why?

This guy really is a sleaze bag.

Ok, now that I understand there's a sensation difference for men and he just wants a better condom, I guess I can downgrade him from conscienceless scum to run-of-the-mill sleeze bag.

I didn't consciously plan him as such, but for me, the humor is the situation, at the end where he's trying to pull her back into the fold, so to speak.

I thought it an interesting moment when he refers to her in such a possessive manner right at the end- but I'm still missing this punch line?

Thanks for all your thoughtful comments, for reading my story, and for really forcing me to examine my motives and goals with this story.

You're welcome.

 

[Raine D8]

Hi Jack. You said, "I'm not looking to be molly-coddled, am not thin skinned, and am seriously looking for honest critique, to help me grow as a writer."

I have read your story (once and a half) and have read the critical responses. Before I post my critique, I need to know one thing: are you attempting to write satire or another form of comedy? I felt you were attempting satire, and my critique is based on that assumption. However, if you were attempting another form, my critique would be useless to you as it is, and I'd have to reassess and look at the story differently to give you my best assessment.

While I await your response ... something I loved: Your description of the hooker: "big tits falling all out of her too tight halter top, slender waist and hips that swung to and fro with her walk." Wonderfully evocative, Jack.

 

[jacks4u]

Originally posted by Raine D8
...Before I post my critique, I need to know one thing: are you attempting to write satire or another form of comedy? I felt you were attempting satire, and my critique is based on that assumption. However, if you were attempting another form, my critique would be useless to you as it is, and I'd have to reassess and look at the story differently to give you my best assessment.

Raine, Thank you for asking - I actually had to turn to Webster for a definitive answer! Dictionary(dot)com has this definition, which i suppose comes closest to my original intention.

1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
3. a literary genre comprising such compositions.​

My apologies to all! Somehow, I seem to have asked completely the wrong question:

5: Did you find it humorous, at all? I know some people just have a knack for making people laugh at things that really suck. I'm not one of those, and really have to work at it. Did I fail in this?​

I have been accused of having an extremely 'dry' sense of humor. Perhaps this is one example of exactly how dry...

While I await your response ... something I loved: Your description of the hooker: "big tits falling all out of her too tight halter top, slender waist and hips that swung to and fro with her walk." Wonderfully evocative, Jack.

Thank you for the compliment! I really did try to place myself in his character, and describe her as he would have seen her, at the moment. Is this how 'good' writers pen such wonderful stories, as to capture the imagination and attention of a reader, and hold it there for the entire work?

I Hope this answers your question,

Jacks

 

[michchick98]

I now understand fully, this is a big failing of this story. And I fear, a shortcoming of mine. I'll have to work extra hard to overcome this.

I say this, because, in my mind I often picture myself or someone else saying some thing, but rarely do I hear, in my mind's ear, a response. and almost never a full fledged conversation with my imagination.

In reference to using dialogue to tell a story: As I said, I'm a firm believer in lots of dialogue. In my opinion, it makes the characters more real when the reader sees them interacting.

And also as I said, dialogue can help tell the story. I've found many times when I'm stuck or stalled in the "narration" (either first person or third person) that I'll take my characters and put them into a conversation. This way they're telling the story and it helps the story move along.

Writing dialogue can be tricky, especially with all the different dialects in the English language. A good way to learn how to write dialogue effectively is to listen to the people around you. Listen to how they say their words. Listen to how they emphasize (or not) each syllable.

Not trying to sound crazy, but when I'm trying to work out a conversation between characters, I'll have them "speaking" in my head. They'll have their conversation in my mind, then I write it the way I hear it.

Here are a few excellent resources on writing dialogue:

Dialogue: The Eternal Problem
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=266154

How To Make Characters Talk
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=8982

Let The Characters Do The Talking
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=122987

Basically, people these days don't say: "I will look into the matter when he is available" but rather: "I'll look into the matter when he's available." Contractions in modern day speech are your friends! If you're writing a historical piece, it's hard to get the dialogue right, but if you read any amount of historical novels (romance or otherwise) you can get a good idea of how the characters speak.

And I'm rambling on....sorry. Anyway, I hope this helps with your next story, at least as far as using dialogue goes.

Lol! More great ideas. Perhaps I penned this story a bit too soon. Or maybe just rushed through it, without much thought to 'fleshing out' the story. More food for thought. I do appreciate the honest feedback here.

Perhaps maybe do a follow up from Julia's point of view. That'd be a good challenge (a man writing in first person from the woman's point of view) and it would give you the opportunity to expand on the story if you so desire.

If you really want to know my one experience with pubic lice, PM me, and I'll tell you the whole story

I really do hope you're kidding here. Please don't expect a PM from me. I'll settle for the fact you're knowledgeable about the topic and leave it at that.

Thank you! for the wonderful comments, and insight into how I could better my story, and even enhance my writing abilities.

And thanks again, for the speedy and accurate edit - It seemed to me, that I'd no more than hit the 'send', then went to check the forums, and discovered your PM that it was done. I was truly amazed!

You're welcome. I knew you wanted to go next and I had the time so it was no trouble to get it back to you quickly. Glad I could help.

 

[jacks4u]

Form Penny above:

That's at least four times too many.

Lol! but it took that many times for me to realize that I hadn't consciously defined the character's personalities. To that end, I really had to search my mind for what I'd really intended to accomplish with each passage. for instance...

The first thing I noticed about this story was the sloppy narration style, especially the reliance on exposition, but also what I took to be a lack of focus and the inclusion of extraneous information. I kinda filed it all under 'novice writer' until I got to the line I mentioned earlier: I didn't say anything, though, figuring she needed a little something extra now and then to tide her over until I could pay attention to her needs. That's where I stopped and gave it some more thought because, to me, his attitude is just so far out there in Loserland. I began to wonder if the sloppy storytelling might be intentional and ever so appropriate- why would a total loser tell his story with anything resembling artfulness?

So I started reading it again with that in mind. When I did that, the line about him taking care of her financially jumped right out at me. Sure, he's still bragging, but it was no longer extraneous bragging. Did I read too much into it? It really depends on what you meant to accomplish with that line​

.

The first two paragraphs were intended thus: "I'm a reasonable, responsible guy, trust me" and where he's talking about his house and car... "see how reasonable and responsible I am?"

When he starts telling of Julia's extramarital affair I'd intended it to be something like this: "I'm so reasonable, I can understand and even tolerate her screwing around on me." However, as I'd intended, that tolerance disappears when his own desires go unmet, and even, in the case of the hooker, come to bad ends.

In the end, I'd intended that no, really he was not a reasonable guy, but just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill jerk.

In the big scheme of things, it sounds as if I more or less pictured the characters you intended to create. The principal issue seems to be that I took their situation seriously and found it tragic rather than humorous.​

But alas, Our creator, in infinite wisdom, did not endow each with the same sense of humor.

So cheap is the operative word in that sentence? Too funny- that went right over my head. So did she insist he wear the cheap condom instead of a good one? If so, why?​

I've never actually been in a situation like this, so I was extrapolating. As I imagined her, I imagined she would trust the thick ones, they'd always kept her safe from "bad things"

I thought it an interesting moment when he refers to her in such a possessive manner right at the end- but I'm still missing this punch line?​

Not really a punch line, as in the finish of a good joke, more of a kicker, where he dashes everything to bits. See my reply to Raine D8's questions above. Clarity should follow.

Yes, it is an indictment against me and my knowledge of the form and goals of my story.

My regrets and sincere apologies

Jacks

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[Penelope Street]

Satire: a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.

This is more or less what I experienced.

"Show don't tell" is good in any story.

...

I'm a firm believer in lots of dialogue. In my opinion, it makes the characters more real when the reader sees them interacting.

I agree an active tale with explicit character interaction makes for more engaging reading, but is such a narrative actually less realistic? How many of us really tell stories in this fashion? I think most of us rely on exposition and paraphrasing when relating a personal experience.

I have been accused of having an extremely 'dry' sense of humor.

I've been accused of the same, but I've always kinda wondered if what they were really saying is, "I just don't get what you think is funny."

Yes, it is an indictment against me and my knowledge of the form and goals of my story.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. When you began this piece, did you just imagine your narrator and his situation and start writing without knowing for sure where the story would go or what you wanted to achieve with it?

Is this how 'good' writers pen such wonderful stories, as to capture the imagination and attention of a reader, and hold it there for the entire work?

If there was a single way 'good' writers penned wonderful stories, it'd be just too easy, wouldn't it?

 

[michchick98]

I agree an active tale with explicit character interaction makes for more engaging reading, but is such a narrative actually less realistic? How many of us really tell stories in this fashion? I think most of us rely on exposition and paraphrasing when relating a personal experience.

I've read lots of great stories on here that have had little or no dialogue. A story can be done and believable/realistic without dialogue, but in many cases, I'd prefer to see the characters interacting.

 

[Penelope Street]

I've read lots of great stories on here that have had little or no dialogue. A story can be done and believable/realistic without dialogue, but in many cases, I'd prefer to see the characters interacting.

I agree with you- I prefer to both read and write stories with lots of character interaction. It's just a subset of good old showing versus telling, isn't it? Of the great stories you mentioned above, how many would have been better still with additional interaction?

The question I was trying to raise is related to how and when telling might be preferable to showing. Driphoney mentioned that a person telling a story doesn't normally describe themselves because it isn't natural. I don't believe showing instead of telling to be a natural way to relate a story either, but most of us who've been writing for at least a few years have learned to relate stories in this manner- so much so that now it feels 'wrong' when we discover a story told in a different fashion.

I accept that I was being narrow-minded when I encountered the initial exposition within Jacks' story and immediately thought it to be a mistake. But was it? Would Jacks' story be even more effective with an a livelier voice or is the seemingly uncouth narrative better after all since it is more natural and because it directly reflects upon the uncouthness of the narrator?