Statutory Rape & Such...

[Native Alien]

Milo, I don't know if this helps any, but here in Ohio, or at least where I am, the statutory rape law is only good until the Female is 13, and then the most that they can get the guy for is contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

I would suggest that your "whoever" get in touch with a local cop and put it to him the same way that you posted it here.

The laws can and do change from county to county in some places.

Yes, I know, cite the source NA. This is because a friend just went thru this with her daughter. The guy was over 18 and the girl involved was 15 and ended up pregnant.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: dating a kid in highschool when you're an adult is wrong

Im so with delicious on this one...

Why would a 24 year old want to date...a child? The girl isnt even done maturing yet...who knows what she will want in a year or two...that age is so full of change....

why would her parents be ok with this?

As a parent who would "be OK with this" I'd say that some parents trust the way they raised their children and know just how mature they really are.

Some "children" have lived with a parent who is incapable or irresponsible and wound up running the household from the time they're 12 and are more mature at 16 than many 24 year-olds (and some 80 year-olds) will ever be.

EVERY circumstance is different and 16 is more than old enough to make "Adult Decisions" if a person has been given (or been forced into) responsiblity and taught to use good judgement.

Quite aside from the cultural prejudices of western society, a properly reared young woman is mature enough to be trusted out of box and WILL make decisions parents don't agree with -- parents then have a choice of loving and supporting them or castingthem out and ruining their relationship with their offspring.

I can think of a dozen reason why herparents should be "OK with this" and only ONE that they shouldn't -- the guy involved is an ass.

 

[Native Alien]

Very good point Weird Harold. Alot just totally depends on the young lady in question and how comfortable her parents are with the young man involved.

 

[Weird Harold]

... and how comfortable her parents are with the young man involved.

Nope, not even how comfortable they are with the young man -- he has to be a bonafide, prosecutable ASS before they should not be"allright with it."

My Eldest Daughter had one boyfriend I disliked intensely and told her he was banned from my house, but I did NOT tell her she couldn't date him. She dumped him the following week.

I don't know if she had sex with him or not and don't want to know -- that's her business and old news. I strongly suspect that she dumped him because he wouldn't take "no" for an answer and kept pressing her for sex.

(My younger daughter would have been told she could date a guy like that, but only at home when I was there (preferably cleaning my pistol,) because the younger daughter doesn't have the strength of will the elder daughter does.)

Parents who don't trust their daughters wind up grandparents by the time they're 35 or so. But they also have to know their daughters as well, and protect them when and as needed.

 

[Guest]

Weird Harold... just wanted to tell you that I think your posts on this topic have been brilliant. I want to say something corny and greatly appreciative but I cannot put it into words.
Thank you for posting .

 

[sheath]

There are actually several lines I would like to quote in this thread but it isn't worth it. I'm just feeling defensive because I've 'been there' and understand what it's like to have to face other people's ignorance. Hell, I'm still facing it.

Ignorance? Baby, I hear you.

When I was 16, I was dating a professor from a college near my high school. He was 38. We dated (and hell yes, slept together) for two years. I was engaged to him for the last six months of that relationship. Unfortunately, he passed away before I had the opportunity to spend the rest of my life with him.

Did anyone know? His coworkers did. The dean knew. Did they do anything about it? He did run into repercussions with his job, yes. He was a college professor, and our relationship did violate the ethics of the college, so that was a problem. Did we run into problems with the legal system? No. And we were lucky. Everyone who knew us knew that we were in love, and we were lucky that those around us recognized that I WAS mature enough to make that choice. It's a sad thing when the law places a limitation on AGE and does not take maturity into account. I was more mature at 16 then many people I have met who are twice that age.

Anyone who says that I wasn't ready for that man is dead wrong. That includes those who are mighty enough to place laws on paper that don't mean much of a damn when put into practice in real life.

So, in answer to your question, yes. Your friend could be considered a rapist, he could have to register as a sex offender, and he could have his life ruined because he has fallen in love with someone who is what someone up on Capitol Hill deems "too young". And of course, if he chooses to show that love in the most elemental of ways, he can wind up in prison.

The law sucks, and it should be changed. But hey, since that won't happen until doomsday, I would just advise your friend to keep it all under wraps. If her parents are okay with it, then by all means, express the way he feels. And if someone does have the temerity to report him? Then stand up for himself! Go to court and fight it tooth and nail. It takes only one good case and one judge of conscience to start changing the way the legal system works.

My two cents...

S.

 

[lovechild27]

Maybe I was raised with different morals and ideas...why is it so hard to belive that other people see this as odd?

I could argue but I wont...I merely asked a question....I dont understand how someones parents would be so supportive of a relationship like this.

Amazing how narrow minded some people are in their open mindedness....

 

[Guest]

Sheath, I'm so sorry that tragedy cut your relationship short... but, in the long run, it seems that the age of consent seems to keep going up rather than down. I just think it's horrible that so many people can have their lives destroyed just for being in love with someone who doesn't meet their state's age requirements. Thank you for posting though... always good to know I'm not the only one who has been in the situation.

"Maybe I was raised with different morals and ideas...why is it so hard to belive that other people see this as odd?"
It isn't at all hard for me to believe that other people see this as odd... I've been getting abused by people for years because I'm dating an older guy so obviously something is 'odd'. I won't even get into what my boyfriend has been put through. I don't understand why it's so hard for other people to see that love knows no age limit. If two people are mature and on the same level then why shouldn't they be able to date?

"I merely asked a question....I dont understand how someones parents would be so supportive of a relationship like this."
And your questions have been answered.

"Amazing how narrow minded some people are in their open mindedness...."
I haven't been narrowminded. I've been explaining a situation that I am familiar with.

 

[Native Alien]

"Maybe I was raised with different morals and ideas...why is it so hard to belive that other people see this as odd?"

I really don't think that this has anything to do with how you were raised. It is the ability to accept the fact that number of years we have been alive has nothing to do with who we are at any one given point in our lives.

That includes making the decision to have sex and with whom. When I decided that sex was what I wanted and I decided that I was ready for it, I did it. Yes, I chose an older man. Why, because the boys my age did nothing for me. They had virtually no experience sexually, didn't know what the word love meant, and were less mature than my youngest brothers.

 

[Guest]

Why, because the boys my age did nothing for me. They had virtually no experience sexually, didn't know what the word love meant, and were less mature than my youngest brothers.

Exactly... when I was 15 and started dating my older guy... the only other options were immature little boys who thought a good time was taking you out on the weekend and throwing up on you after they drank their father's beer . I wanted someone who was over the 'drugs are grand - lets experiment phase!' because I was never into that. And a younger guy simply has no idea how to treat a girl or what I need emotionally or physically... they're too busy going through puberty and, once again, 'experimenting'.

 

[MiloDRemix]

Heh, I love you, Tania. It's always been so much fun watching you rip out the hearts of younger men. You just have that one look... the 'if you come near me I'm going to castrate you because you are unworthy' look. Makes my little heart flutter something fierce .

And in reply to everything that has been said while I was missing in action... for those of you who do not understand how a 16 year old could date a 20something year old... it's only because you've never been in the situation. Live and let live.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

Love builds bridges.

Good point, Jack... it wasn't at all uncommon for very young girls to marry men 3+ times their ages if you look back. And, well, I just love the 'love builds bridges' bit . I wish my love for Chris would build a bridge of understanding in his family...

 

[Weird Harold]

Maybe I was raised with different morals and ideas...

...

I could argue but I wont...I merely asked a question....I dont understand how someones parents would be so supportive of a relationship like this.

First, I don't think You were raised with ideas and morals that are all that much different than those I was raised with. However, at nearly 54 years of age, I've had lots of opportunity to test those morals and ideas against against the real world and especially reality of being a parent and grandparent.

Second, if you'll point out what you didn't understand about my reasons for being supportive of my daughter's sexual freedom, I'll try to clarify it for you.

Every parent's reasons are going to be different, but it all boils down to actually knowing the people involved instead of relying on an arbitrary, age-basd standard of maturity.


I do hope you will come to understand before you have daughter reaching puberty. I don't think that's a narrow-minded wish, BTW; it's simply a recognition of what my personal experience has shown to work best in dealing with teen-age daughters.

 

[Weird Harold]

So before people start thinking it is sick for a 24 yr old and a 16 year old look back into your own families. Love builds bridges.

Wise words from a wise man. Bravo!

 

[James G 5]

When I was 15 I may very well have been termed a child by certain state laws but I knew full well what I was doing and I still do. I'm the exact same person now that I was three years ago.

Without touching the rest of this argument, that statement is TRULY scary
3 years of your life have goen by without you growing or changing at ALL?
Especially such pivotal years as the end of your high school days?
Ouch............

 

[Guest]

Without touching the rest of this argument, that statement is TRULY scary
3 years of your life have goen by without you growing or changing at ALL?
Especially such pivotal years as the end of your high school days?
Ouch............

My ideals, morals, and plans for the future are the same... I'm sorry if that bothers you. High school was just something I had to survive through to move on with my life's dreams. Would it make you feel better if I worded it: I haven't changed in any way that makes me more qualified for a relationship than I was at 15? Because I can do that... I'm only here to please everyone else in the world.

 

[MiloDRemix]

Would it make you feel better if I worded it: I haven't changed in any way that makes me more qualified for a relationship than I was at 15? Because I can do that... I'm only here to please everyone else in the world.

Umm... ((tense pause)) Honey...? Are you snapping? ((pets)) I still love you...

James G 5, Nah she really hasn't changed that much over the last three years... and that's something we should all be grateful for. A better gal could not be found in this world.

 

[James G 5]

I will make this comment on the argument in general
Statutory rape laws exist for the same reason as seat belt laws

Yes, there are 15-17 yr old girls (and boys) who're mentally capable and emotionally mature enough to make the decision to commit to a relationship with someone older on a serious & physical/sexual level

Yes there are 23 year + old men or women who might genuinely find them attractive or fall in love with them

However MOST 15-17 year olds aren't that mature (heck, I think marriage should be illegal before age 25 for ANYONE) and most will grow & change a LOT between "now" and 30
And everyone knows people that age like to THINK they know everything, but generally grow out of it. The perceived maturity vs actual maturity, desire for rebellion, wish to feel or SEEM grown up, and general teenage angst combined with hormonal overdrive serve to render this age group susceptible to those who are out to prey on them

And a disproportionate number of men over 20 who get involved with younger girls do it because THEY are emotionally immature and unable to relate to women their age or unwilling to put the work in to it. One lady I work with had a child at 17 and another at 18 by 2 different men who're now both convicted sex offenders for sleeping with girls as young as 14 and 15 while well in to their 30's. These guys swore they always had feelings for the girls. *shrug* Most guys that age without issues WOULD choose older women. (NOTE, I am talking in generalizations here and about the MAJORITY of situations, not everyone or all situations or the people in this situation, who I do not know at all. Nor, given that my mom dated one ofher high school teachers who SHE pursued, do I feel ALL of this is guys out to exploit girls)
Additionally, a serious issue in several states (here in Florida included) in the welfare system is the number of underage girls who have children by absentee fathers. Statistcs show many of these absentees, often non-support payings ones, are over 30. This is not a minority issue but an issue across the welfare system. (Contrary to popular belief, there're a lot of non-minorities on the welfare rolls).

So what does all of this have to do with seatbelt laws?
They were passed to protect society from bearing the cost ofthe bad decisions of a group of people, those who drove without them and raised insurance costs for the rest of us
Statutory rape laws were passed to give us a mechanism protecting society at large from having young people exploited and costing society in any number of ways
They're applied selectively and often unfairly, for instance used as a club to "force" marriage
But they exist because of the bad people & bad cases, not the situations where everything is mutual and happy
So much as I love Sheath I have to disagree with changing the laws

UNLESS we implement MY idea of chemically sterilizing everyone at birth and then not reversing it until & unless they can prove they're in a sound relationship & capable or caring for a child
Then we just give kids good sex ed & free condoms and step out of the way......

All IMHO of course

 

[James G 5]

My ideals, morals, and plans for the future are the same... I'm sorry if that bothers you. High school was just something I had to survive through to move on with my life's dreams. Would it make you feel better if I worded it: I haven't changed in any way that makes me more qualified for a relationship than I was at 15? Because I can do that... I'm only here to please everyone else in the world.

It doesn't BOTHER me
It's just uncommon
Life is all about growth & change and you made it sound as if you'd gone thru neither. *shrug*
I don't know you & could only question your words.

 

[MiloDRemix]

It doesn't BOTHER me
It's just uncommon
Life is all about growth & change and you made it sound as if you'd gone thru neither. *shrug*
I don't know you & could only question your words.

I'm going to get really defensive here in about three seconds ((takes deep breaths))... I told Tania just to stay off of this thread because it seems to only be upsetting her (she's very sensitive and passionate about certain things - you may have noticed) so I'm replying to you in her honor.

Anyhow, Tania went through more horror and trauma from age 7-14 than most people go through from the day they're born until the day they die. She had to grow up long before she ever made it to high school. And I'm really proud at how she has handled everything through the years. That's really all you need to know.

Moving on. Thanks for posting... hope you have a nice night... please don't irritate or insult my womens in the future, lol.

 

[James G 5]

I'm going to get really defensive here in about three seconds ((takes deep breaths))... I told Tania just to stay off of this thread because it seems to only be upsetting her (she's very sensitive and passionate about certain things - you may have noticed) so I'm replying to you in her honor.

Anyhow, Tania went through more horror and trauma from age 7-14 than most people go through from the day they're born until the day they die. She had to grow up long before she ever made it to high school. And I'm really proud at how she has handled everything through the years. That's really all you need to know.

Moving on. Thanks for posting... hope you have a nice night... please don't irritate or insult my womens in the future, lol.

There was no insult given or intended
I simply remarked that a life lived without change on a personal level is, to me, a sad thing
People get kinda hypersensetive around here

 

[Guest]

 

[MiloDRemix]

Milo, people have opinions dont get defensive. This is America for Gods sake,

I'm perfectly fine with the opinions of the people when they don't have anything to do with Tania, lol. And you really don't want to get me started on America...

 

[Pure]

Based on the quotes from the Wisconsin site,

I just had to know: What the f*** is sexual intercourse??


Legislative Council Note, 1981: Presently, [in sub. (5) (a)] the definition of "sexual intercourse" in the sexual assault statute includes any intrusion of any part of a person's body or of any object into the genital or anal opening of another person. This proposal clarifies that the intrusion of the body part or object may be caused by the direct act of the offender (defendant) or may occur as a result of an act by the victim which is done in compliance with instructions of the offender (defendant). [Bill 630-S]

If a guy or gal fingerf**** a date, there is 'sexual intercourse'-- in Wisconsin, at least!!

It follows that, with a minor, as far as *sexual intercourse* goes, if the man (adult) hold very still, and issues no instructions, and the young woman climbs on (mounts), there is no sexual intercourse!

Oh, and it's stated elsewhere that the above is *broadened* to include fellatio or cunnilingus.!

The definition of 'sexual contact' is also relevant, since the sexual assault law is based on 'sexual contact' OR 'sexual intercourse' -- i.e., doing one or the other in the absence of consent, or to someone who legally can't consent.




920.225- 5 b,c

b) "Sexual contact" means any of the following:
1. Intentional touching by the complainant or defendant, either directly or through clothing by the use of any body part or object, of the complainant's or defendant's intimate parts if that intentional touching is either for the purpose of sexually degrading; or for the purpose of sexually humiliating the complainant or sexually arousing or gratifying the defendant or if the touching contains the elements of actual or attempted battery under s. 940.19 (1).

{{Would it follows then that the man (adult) does NOT have sexual contact if he touches her (minor) solely for the purpose of gratifying her?}}


(c) "Sexual intercourse" includes the meaning assigned under s. 939.22 (36) as well as cunnilingus, fellatio or anal intercourse between persons or any other intrusion, however slight, of any part of a person's body or of any object into the genital or anal opening either by the defendant or upon the defendant's instruction. The emission of semen is not required.