"Starter" digital camera?

[glynndah]

L5P: Finally some advice I can understand! At the risk of setting off another barrage of shrapnel heading my way, *hides behind the couch*I think I'm going to go for a really cheap, throwaway model and see if I take more than 15 pictures or so a year. If I like the whole adventure, I can always trade up and I have several kidlets in the extended family who'd love a new toy.

But I am enjoying the pitched battles going on here, so please feel free to carry on as before.

 

[Texguy84]

L5P: Finally some advice I can understand! At the risk of setting off another barrage of shrapnel heading my way, *hides behind the couch*I think I'm going to go for a really cheap, throwaway model and see if I take more than 15 pictures or so a year. If I like the whole adventure, I can always trade up and I have several kidlets in the extended family who'd love a new toy.

Even if you get something cheap, try to stick with a name-brand camera company. Even the guy working the electronics section at Wal Mart warned me away from the Vivitars (good flashes, lousy cameras). Canon, Kodak, Sony, Nikon, Pentax, are all good brands to bet on for cameras.

But I am enjoying the pitched battles going on here, so please feel free to carry on as before.

Weeee! *grabs an empty Manachewitz bottle and leaps into the fray with a high-pitched battle squeal*

 

[TheCurious]

Well this thread popped back up into my "recent threads" panel so I'll throw in another vote for the D50.

Last saturday I shot a wedding using a Nikon D80 and a Nikon D50. Some of my favorite shots were of the Nikon D50 (which was functioning as a backup camera) that I tossed a $90 kick around macro/portrait lense I picked up off ebay on. The shots were gorgeous with the relatively fast lens.

The clients came by today to see the proofs. They loved them. Some of the ones I shot with a $500 camera with a $90 lens were the ones they wanted for their walls.

 

[footlongish]

What a stupid friggin post this has been !

First of all, buy what ever you want. I could care less WHAT you buy. What pisses me off is the idiot statements being made about cameras and photography.

Secondly, all that technical jargon is there because it means something. When you buy a car, do you want to understand the difference between a 4 cylinder and a V8 ? Yep. So you learn something about the jargon ! If you want to make a good purchase you need to understand some camera jargon !

Thirdly, if you've never owned a digital camera and you don't know much about them, I don't think you should be giving advice ! And if I were looking for advice, I wouldn't be listening to people like that.

Next, I resent how people use these threads as forums to boast or say how much they know. So many times people have dragged this off topic, talking about how big their lens is or how big their equipment bag is. What a crock of BS ! Just because YOU need a DSLR, 3 lenses, a laptop, a flash and all your other equipment to get your shots, doesn't mean a newbie needs that ! So stop scaring him into thinking that he will.

And, if people are going to give advice about cameras to a newbie, get the friggin facts straight so the newbie isn't confused.

For instance:

Quote:
d) 90% of most point and shoot cameras can't take an external flash because they don't have a flash hotshoe. Which is one reason I think they are terrible for indoor photos, but that is another story.

Simple solution for that, actually. Just get a slave adaptor for the hotshoe flash. Here is one from Vivitar, that website has a bunch of other brands available, but they all go for around $30 it seems. Basically, when your on-camera flash goes off, the little light sensor on the adaptor detects it and triggers the flash it's attached to. Play with the flash and the manual settings on the camera to figure out how you need it set up to work.

Most point-and-shoot cameras I've seen include a standard tripod mount on the bottom (the little screw hole), so you can set up the flash on a special bracket that screws into the tripod mount for those times when you need the flash attached to the camera. It's a bit of fuss, but it works pretty well once you set it up. Here is a good example of one on eBay, for about $25 with shipping and handling.

I knew when I posted that a compact camera doesn't have a hotshoe that someone was going to say this. The problem with using an external flash like this is that there is no way for a compact camera to automatically meter the exposure. Yes, it can be done manually, but we are giving advice to a NEWBIE. Do you think a NEWBIE is going to screw around with adjusting the flash power and manually compensating the camera exposure ? NO. SO WHY FRIGGIN MENTION IT ? IT IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION FOR A NEWBIE. And if you do mention this sort of thing to a newbie, tell him the whole story so that he doesn't go buy the flash and the flash bracket and then finds that he doesn't know how to use it !

Second point about this, people are knocking the DSLR suggestion because its too big. But somehow putting a friggin flash bracket on the camera isn't too big ? WTF ?

Here is another great example.

Quote: ... but I do know that the kit lens for my own Canon (an older 35-85) is loud when autofocusing, and feels very cheaply made...

Reply:
Modern (D)SLR lenses are virtually silent. Some kit lenses might feel a bit cheap but they work well.

Reply:
Modern DSLRs sound like a chimpanzee beating an intern with a frying pan once you compare them to a digital point-and-shoot or a Rangefinder camera (of course, good Rangefinders, such as the Leica M6, are ridiculously expensive, but they're so quiet, you can barely hear the shutter go off while holding the camera to take the picture.)

The poster tells us that lenses are noisy. I reply back that the new ones are pretty much silent. Then he changes the friggin topic to say that an SLR sounds like a monkey with a frying pan. OF COURSE ! ITS A FRIGGIN SLR ! But that wasn't the original question ! Is there any way to make a point with someone like this ? Sheesh ! Of course he has to drag high end exotic cameras into the fray as well.

Is the shutter slap of an SLR so loud and annoying that they are useless ? Especially since people with silent compact cameras generally turn the "beep" on so they know the picture was actually taken ?

You guys want to make fun of my posts, FINE. I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing with a people that have never owned a god damn digital camera !

The OP wanted advice. Here is my spiel. Buy a decent friggin camera ! 5 years down the road you will thank yourself. End of story.

Albert Einstien said it best...

A photograph never grows old. You and I change, people change all through the months and years, but a photograph always remains the same. How nice to look at a photograph of Mother or Father taken many years ago. You see them as you remember them.

The question you need to ask yourself when you buy that camera is how good do you want mother and father to look when you look at their picture many years from now ?

 

[Texguy84]

Last saturday I shot a wedding using a Nikon D80 and a Nikon D50. Some of my favorite shots were of the Nikon D50 (which was functioning as a backup camera) that I tossed a $90 kick around macro/portrait lense I picked up off ebay on. The shots were gorgeous with the relatively fast lens.

The clients came by today to see the proofs. They loved them. Some of the ones I shot with a $500 camera with a $90 lens were the ones they wanted for their walls.

Something else to consider, older camera lenses (such as the Pentax Screwmount stuff) often sells for much less than newer versions. You could get a very nice lens such as the Pentax Super Multi Coated Takumar 50mm 1/1.4 lens for around $100 or less, then use a $20 adaptor to use it on your modern day DSLR. It won't have all the fancy automatic functions that newer lenses do (no autofocus, for example), or even the few automatic ones it has built in (you'll have to stop it down manually), but these old lenses can take some very nice photos, equivilant to some of the much more expensive modern day lenses, and for a huge bargain.

Plus, added benefit, the old Pentax screwmount lenses work with the outstanding old Asashi Pentax Spotmatics, a line of very good, and very reliable old school film SLR cameras from the 60's.

 

[footlongish]

Not to sell Nikon here, but a new Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 coated autofocus prime lens can be bought for about $75. Sharp as a tack. Great for portraits of say, Mother and Father.

 

[Texguy84]

Thirdly, if you've never owned a digital camera and you don't know much about them, I don't think you should be giving advice ! And if I were looking for advice, I wouldn't be listening to people like that.

Know of anyone in particular here who fits that description?

I knew when I posted that a compact camera doesn't have a hotshoe that someone was going to say this. The problem is using an external flash like this is that there is no way for a compact camera to automatically meter the exposure. Yes, it can be done manually, but we are giving advice to a NEWBIE. Do you think a NEWBIE is going to screw around with adjusting the flash power and manually setting compensating the camera ? NO. SO WHY FRIGGIN MENTION IT ? IT IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION FOR A NEWBIE. And if you do mention this sort of thing to a newbie, tell him the whole story so that he doesn't go buy the flash and the flash bracket and then finds that he doesn't know how to use it !

Second point about this, people are knocking the DSLR suggestion because its too big. But somehow putting a friggin flash bracket on the camera isn't too big ? WTF ?

Hey, you're the one telling them to buy the camera with the eighty bajillion options on it. As for whether the P&S can meter the flash automatically, I dunno, can they? I've never tried. I'm not entirely sure how metering for a point and shoot works, or even if they all work the same, but I have seem various people wandering around with a large external flash attached to a small point-and-shoot camera.

And I'll admit, this makes the camera very bulky, but also gives a nice handhold to grip it by if the camera is too small for you. And the big problem I had with the DSLR suggestions was cost, not size.

You guys want to make fun of my posts, FINE. I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing with a people that have never owned a god damn digital camera !

Actually, the "I'm not gonna post in this thread anymore" line sounds vaguely familiar... can't think of who said it here though... *shrug*

Yaknow, I've been keeping the kid gloves about your posts until now, but since you bring it up... spelling and punctuation. Get to know them, and become intimate with them as if they were your lovers. Your posts will be taken more seriously if you don't mix up your tenses and add extraneous spaces before punctiation (ie: "god damn digital camera !" would be a bit more coherent as "God damned digital camera!").

Also, every time you type in all caps (LIKE THIS OMGWTFBBQDSLR!), your percieved IQ level drops in the eyes of most folks reading your posts. All we ever see of you is what you present in these posts, and what we're seeing is akin to a screaming 12 year old who has just been told he can't have any cookies.

And as has been said before, a little more civility towards your fellow posters may be in line. When you consistently reply to peoples' posts in a condescending and hostile manner, they're just inspired to needle you right back. If you don't have anything nice to say in a post, hit Alt-Left or Alt-F4, it makes no difference to me which you choose.

The OP wanted advice. Here is my spiel. Buy a decent friggin camera ! 5 years down the road you will thank yourself. End of story.

Albert Einstien said it best...

The question you need to ask yourself when you buy that camera is how good do you want mother and father to look when you look at their picture many years from now ?

Fair enough question, and something for the OP to take into consideration when she makes her decision. Nobody here (or hardly anybody, in any case) has suggested that she should buy a bad camera, or even a low-quality one. Some low-cost ones, and by today's standards, low-performance, sure, but not low quality.

Out of curiosity, where did the Einstein quote come from? Haven't heard it before, and can't find it online (but my Google-fu has been a bit weak tonight).

 

[Texguy84]

Not to sell Nikon here, but a new Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 coated autofocus prime lens can be bought for about $75. Sharp as a tack. Great for portraits of say, Mother and Father.

Oi, need to start hitting preview before I hit reply. Where do you find that lens for $75? Sounds a bit cheap for a modern autofocus lens. Maybe the primes are just that much cheaper than the zooms. *shrug* I've been considering getting a 50mm prime lens for my Canon Rebel, to partially replace the 35-85 zoom that's been annoying me lately.

 

[TheCurious]

Oi, need to start hitting preview before I hit reply. Where do you find that lens for $75? Sounds a bit cheap for a modern autofocus lens. Maybe the primes are just that much cheaper than the zooms. *shrug* I've been considering getting a 50mm prime lens for my Canon Rebel, to partially replace the 35-85 zoom that's been annoying me lately.

I checked it out... $100-115 or so brand new online... $75-100 on ebay. A really good deal given the quality of the lens.

 

[Texguy84]

I checked it out... $100-115 or so brand new online... $75-100 on ebay. A really good deal given the quality of the lens.

Yeah, looks like the Canon EF 50mm F/1.8 prime lens goes for similar prices on the Bay. Definitely worth looking into, especially if I can find one of the older ones with the metal body.

 

[SweetErika]

SweetErika, please step back a bit. I know you mean well but I think you're right in the path of the swinging weaponry. Those battle axes have a wicked trajectory. I'm trying to just let them all fight it out now. I'll come back later and sweep up, if necessary.

Thanks for the concern, Glynndah, but I've been around awhile and wouldn't have said anything had footinhismouth not started unwarranted attacks on those who were giving you good advice (like get the best camera in you budget and something that will be easily portable and versatile). He'll join my ignore list shortly if he continues on this path, and doesn't matter enough for any reply to bother me.

Have you looked at any cams yet? I bet if you do that and let us know which ones you're considering, the knowlegable folks here will help you pick the best of the lot, regardless of its cost. Even if you're not making a huge investment, you might as well get the most for your money and be as happy as possible with what you get, right?

 

[5pintshefound]

sheesh! go to bed, and a war breaks out.... again..

Erika thanks for sticking up for me.. im glad at least 1 person understood what i was trying to post...


footlongish--- you really do sound like a petulant 8 year old. not a noteworthy trait for sure..... and why is it, that you have to be so rude?? i mean, seriously????
its quite obvious to everyone here, that you know alot about the techie end of photography. good for you. im sure that was many years of learning.. but just because some of us dont have the same knowledge of the technicalities? doesnt mean that we dont have just as much to input as you do. Do you speak to everyone this condiscending? or just us deviants on Lit??

L5P---I LOVE YOU... AND THE KIDS IN YOUR ADHD BRAIN TOO!

Glynndah--im curious to see what cameras youve looked @ in person also?!

TexGuy-- the 35-88 thats annoying you... what brand is it??? i have a 28-80 tamron, that i hate also.. personally that size range is a bit of a pain in the ass for me...

oh, and whoever said that the lenses arent loud??? was that you footlongish??? i beg to differ.. my xt runs some lenses much louder than others.. tamron especially... when i still had a tamron 70-300, it was loud enough that i could use auto focus when trying to get some birds that were far away, as soon as they heard that whir of it, they flew...


anyway.. thats my latest addition to the war...ahem.. i mean thread

~5PHF

 

[Texguy84]

5Pints: Well, I think it's the kit lens that came with the camera. So it says Canon, but a Tamron sales rep I talked to a while back said that the kit lenses are made by all sorts of companies, including Canon and Tamron.

 

[5pintshefound]

5Pints: Well, I think it's the kit lens that came with the camera. So it says Canon, but a Tamron sales rep I talked to a while back said that the kit lenses are made by all sorts of companies, including Canon and Tamron.

wierd.. when i bought mine, i got it from a seller on ebay... cametaauctions.. absolutely EXCELLEnt cust.svc.. i got 2 tamron lens {didnt like either--very cheaply made} only 1 isstill 'surviving' the other {70-300} died-- a 12 inch fall did it in, broke a wheel inside


i like sigma myslef.. but i cant afford a true canon lens...lol.. who knows.. im sure theyre worth their weight in gold... but not in the budget till i start getting paid more often...
lol

~5PHF

 

[Texguy84]

i like sigma myslef.. but i cant afford a true canon lens...lol.. who knows.. im sure theyre worth their weight in gold... but not in the budget till i start getting paid more often...
lol

~5PHF

Heh, probably true. Might be too that the Tamrons you got were very cheap. The high-end stuff their sales rep was showing me looked pretty nice. Even had a special ring for rotating the filter ring for when you use polarizing filters with a lens hood.

 

[Mr_Mrs_Angel]

Well being a semi-Pro photographer I feel I should say something about all this.

First of all make sure you get to play with whatever you choose in store as you really need to like the feel of it!!

As stated pay a little more and stick with named brands!! Personally Fuji is top of my list for compact digital as the picture quality is very good Pentax is a very close second, however Canon Nikon and all the others are also special in thier own way.

DO NOT BUY SONY!!! over priced and TBH crappy quality

And Finally spend a little more than you planned to as its always worth the extra as has been stated the better you get now the happier you will be with those pictures in years to come, I look back at my first digital images and shudder in horror at how bad they are compared to now!!


Oh and for the record I have the Canon 30D with an assortment of lenses including the as stated amazing 50mm f1.8 Prime, cheap as chips for the image quality.


Above all get something this weekend and start to learn how to use it you will not be sorry you spent a little more and followed all the good advice on here

If you do go for a D-SLR remember a cheaper body and expensive lenses is MUCH MUCH better than dear body and cheap lenses

 

[footlongish]

Hey, you're the one telling them to buy the camera with the eighty bajillion options on it.

What is the deal about buying a camera with "too many" options ? Buy a camera that has an Auto mode. Put it in Auto and fire away. As you get to be a more sophisticated user, use the options.

As for whether the P&S can meter the flash automatically, I dunno, can they? I've never tried. I'm not entirely sure how metering for a point and shoot works, or even if they all work the same, but I have seem various people wandering around with a large external flash attached to a small point-and-shoot camera.

No, a point and shoot can't meter an optically slaved flash. Not automatically anyway. And there are a couple different ways that cameras meter flash and some of them (ie if they preflash) will outright NOT work with an optically slaved flash.

Personally, I won't take indoor photos without an external flash. Generally, built in flashes give hard shadows, highlights, poor skin tones and red eyes. So any camera I would consider has to have a hotshoe to use an external flash. There are only a couple compact cameras that do, one being the Canon G6/G7.

oh, and whoever said that the lenses arent loud??? was that you footlongish??? i beg to differ.. my xt runs some lenses much louder than others.. tamron especially... when i still had a tamron 70-300, it was loud enough that i could use auto focus when trying to get some birds that were far away, as soon as they heard that whir of it, they flew...

How old is your lens ? Ever heard of USM (Ultra Sonic Motor) ? Most new lenses have them.
Nikon calls them "Silent Wave" for "super quiet operation.
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2149

 

[lost5pints]

How old is your lens ? Ever heard of USM (Ultra Sonic Motor) ? Most new lenses have them.
Nikon calls them "Silent Wave" for "super quiet operation.
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2149

with considerable regret me and 5PHF are not currently in the tax bracket for those lenses at this time .....eventually these will be an option....but as a amateur working towards pro we start with what we can afford.....a good portion of the USM lenses for a canon run between 500-1400 dollars on ebay.....with a large number of them ranging much more.....not what i would recomend for the family photographer that is worried if she will take more than 15 pics a year....

Glynddah.....addendum to my last....get the camera that feels good.....that is in your budget....megapixels and Brand Name make a difference in the long run....you will probably find yourself taking far more photos once you get compfortable.....have fun with whatever you pick.....

 

[footlongish]

"with considerable regret me and 5PHF are not currently in the tax bracket for those lenses at this time"

I'm on a budget too.

I was referring to USM as a technology, not as a part of the Canon brand, but I didn't make that clear, did I ? Me bad.

Lens cost is one of the main reasons I shoot Nikon. I think generally Nikon lenses are about the same quality and HALF the price. (I'm sure a Canon guy will disagree with this and maybe rightfully so, I'm not sure.)

I buy most of my lenses used and I've never had a bad one. I paid $225 for the Nikkor 18-70 I have and it was like new. It has a Silent Wave motor. The new Nikon 18-135 is supposed to be pretty sharp and its $425 brand new.

 

[glynndah]

Thanks, everyone, for the great advice and entertainment. I'm glad to see the sniping has calmed down for the moment and the swords have all been sheathed. I'm going shopping sometime this week for a camera based on your recommendations. Wish me luck.

 

[webber1998]

What a stupid friggin post this has been !

First of all, buy what ever you want. I could care less WHAT you buy. What pisses me off is the idiot statements being made about cameras and photography.

Secondly, all that technical jargon is there because it means something. When you buy a car, do you want to understand the difference between a 4 cylinder and a V8 ? Yep. So you learn something about the jargon ! If you want to make a good purchase you need to understand some camera jargon !

Thirdly, if you've never owned a digital camera and you don't know much about them, I don't think you should be giving advice ! And if I were looking for advice, I wouldn't be listening to people like that.

Next, I resent how people use these threads as forums to boast or say how much they know. So many times people have dragged this off topic, talking about how big their lens is or how big their equipment bag is. What a crock of BS ! Just because YOU need a DSLR, 3 lenses, a laptop, a flash and all your other equipment to get your shots, doesn't mean a newbie needs that ! So stop scaring him into thinking that he will.

And, if people are going to give advice about cameras to a newbie, get the friggin facts straight so the newbie isn't confused.

For instance:



I knew when I posted that a compact camera doesn't have a hotshoe that someone was going to say this. The problem with using an external flash like this is that there is no way for a compact camera to automatically meter the exposure. Yes, it can be done manually, but we are giving advice to a NEWBIE. Do you think a NEWBIE is going to screw around with adjusting the flash power and manually compensating the camera exposure ? NO. SO WHY FRIGGIN MENTION IT ? IT IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION FOR A NEWBIE. And if you do mention this sort of thing to a newbie, tell him the whole story so that he doesn't go buy the flash and the flash bracket and then finds that he doesn't know how to use it !

Second point about this, people are knocking the DSLR suggestion because its too big. But somehow putting a friggin flash bracket on the camera isn't too big ? WTF ?

Here is another great example.



The poster tells us that lenses are noisy. I reply back that the new ones are pretty much silent. Then he changes the friggin topic to say that an SLR sounds like a monkey with a frying pan. OF COURSE ! ITS A FRIGGIN SLR ! But that wasn't the original question ! Is there any way to make a point with someone like this ? Sheesh ! Of course he has to drag high end exotic cameras into the fray as well.

Is the shutter slap of an SLR so loud and annoying that they are useless ? Especially since people with silent compact cameras generally turn the "beep" on so they know the picture was actually taken ?

You guys want to make fun of my posts, FINE. I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing with a people that have never owned a god damn digital camera !

The OP wanted advice. Here is my spiel. Buy a decent friggin camera ! 5 years down the road you will thank yourself. End of story.

Albert Einstien said it best...



The question you need to ask yourself when you buy that camera is how good do you want mother and father to look when you look at their picture many years from now ?

======== > Ignore.....

 

[Eilan]

You guys want to make fun of my posts, FINE. I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing with a people that have never owned a god damn digital camera !

Now you know how some of us feel when you try to give relationship advice.

 

[Phoenix555]

I'd recommand a SONY DSC-V1(Cybershot), easy for a starter, handy indoors and outdoors.

 

[5pintshefound]

F-ish

if your goin to use a quote {especially from someone like Einstien} use the ENTIRE quote.. not just the part you can twist to fit you agenda

"A photograph never grows old. You and I change, people change all through the months and years but a photograph always remains the same. How nice to look at a photograph of mother or father taken many years ago. You see them as you remember them. But as people live on, they change completely. That is why I think a photograph can be kind."

http://www.heartquotes.net/Einstein.html


by looking @ the entire quote, we can see that einstien wasnt worrying about how technically savvy the camera is, but at how a photograph of people from years past, can be a kind way to remember them...
beautiful photographs can betaken on a shit camera... its all a matter of getting that perfect moment, sometimes its just a little easier with a camera with added bells and whistles.

~5PHF

 

[footlongish]

Do you have much of a personal vendeta against me, 5 ?