So, Virginity...

[Ropebunny]

"But at times in England, France, Germany, Spain, and America, red hair has been
unpopular and distrusted. At the height of Europe’s witch hunts in the 16th and 17th
centuries, many women suffered the shame and pain of being stripped, shaved, and
“pricked” by a witch hunter, endured torture, and were put to death, simply because
they were redheads-and preferably, young and attractive. The fear of red hair may
have stemmed from the belief that Judas, who betrayed Christ, was red-haired."

Cooper, Wendy. 1971. Hair: Sex, Society, and Symbolism. New York: Stein and Day. Cited by Heckett, Druann & Best, Amy. 1997. Ugly Duckling to Swan: Labeling Theory and the Stigmatization of Red Hair. Symbolic Interaction, vol.20, no.4 pp.365-384.


There. An excerpt from a reputable scholarly journal. If that can't convince you trolls nothing will.

 

[HussarVanburen]

"But at times in England, France, Germany, Spain, and America, red hair has been
unpopular and distrusted. At the height of Europe’s witch hunts in the 16th and 17th
centuries, many women suffered the shame and pain of being stripped, shaved, and
“pricked” by a witch hunter, endured torture, and were put to death, simply because
they were redheads-and preferably, young and attractive. The fear of red hair may
have stemmed from the belief that Judas, who betrayed Christ, was red-haired."

Cooper, Wendy. 1971. Hair: Sex, Society, and Symbolism. New York: Stein and Day. Cited by Heckett, Druann & Best, Amy. 1997. Ugly Duckling to Swan: Labeling Theory and the Stigmatization of Red Hair. Symbolic Interaction, vol.20, no.4 pp.365-384.


There. An excerpt from a reputable scholarly journal. If that can't convince you trolls nothing will.

I'll JSTOR the original journal article to see what historic source it cites.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I wish I could just find a Master and completely and fully give all that I am to him, but I am afraid that to go straight from nearly 100% pure and virginal to a BDSM lifestyle would be too daunting and would permanently alter my psyche. There is no doubt in my mind that I am sexually submissive.
So, I am not sure what steps to take. Suppose I do find a man I approve of and want to be with, but he find this... dirty, and undeniable part of myself intolerable? Is it possible to be in a happy, and somewhat vanilla relationship with a Dom that is content not to be 24/7? Won't that dominance leak into our personal lives as well? I have been... enjoying BDSM and bondage erotica for 2 years now, but as life starts to progress, I am needing some advice. And this isn't really the kind of thing I would bring up with my girlfriends at book club or at work. Any thoughts?

This is the original post.

HOW THE FUCK did we let the trolls sidetrack TMS's post into a "scholarly" argument over whether or not redheads were considered, in some society(ies), at some time(s), to be witches or that red hair was a sign of evilness, etc.?

Come on, people, don't let the trolls yank us off to unrelated not-even-tangents when someone is asking for advice!

 

[Primalex]

This is the original post.

HOW THE FUCK did we let the trolls sidetrack TMS's post into a "scholarly" argument over whether or not redheads were considered, in some society(ies), at some time(s), to be witches or that red hair was a sign of evilness, etc.?

Come on, people, don't let the trolls yank us off to unrelated not-even-tangents when someone is asking for advice!

And so you decided to add absolutely nothing helpful in this post? Are you a troll now?

 

[DomMCZ]

To Torturemesoftly

I know a little of how you feel. I am young dominate, new to all of this BDSM thing as well. I have know I was dominate for awhile, but am really just now getting in to discovering it more. Is hard to deal with when you don't know how your future partner may respond to it. Here is my advice. Talk about it with anyone you want to have romantic relationship with about it. Communication and trust are the key to ANY relationship. If you really want to be a submissive with someone you need to figure out to what degree you are willing to go. Are you wanting to be a full 24/7 submissive, are you wanting to keep it just role playing? are you wanting it to be during certain times only when you are alone together? I know since you are trying to figure out all about this and get your head around going into it you probably don't know the answer to those questions. My advice is do some research and find the answers to those questions. Fet life is a good place to start. Also, this blog:

http://fortheloveofasub.tumblr.com/

is another great source for information (thank you to a new found friend for sharing it with me btw).

Not all guys are going to want your submissiveness and that is ok. If you truly want to find a dominating man then that is where the communication comes in, if they are not into, but you know that you are then don't be afraid to walk away from the relationship. Do not sell yourself short for something you do not want or for someone that will not love or accept that side of you. If you know you are submissive then accept that and begin searching for things about sD/s relationships. Find answers to questions that you have about what being a submissive is and what you would want in a dominating master. Only then will you be able to find what you seek.

If you would like to talk to me more,and I do mean talk not cyber sex, feel free to add me on yahoo DomMCZ and I will be more than willing to talk with you if you would like.

To the other responders
I know I will probably be hated for this, but I have decided that I do not care. Please explain to me when has it become acceptable for GROWN adults to come on here and act like little children and get into a pissing/ego war over what somebody said? Like really people? This young women put her thoughts of what she is going through out there seeking help, seeking advice and what does she get? A few good/decent responses and then a war of words for a full 2 to 3 pages of responses. Please explain to me how that HELPS HER? Because from where I sit it doesn't help her at all. Not everyone on here is going to post something you agree with, that is the real world we live in, someone, in fact probably ALL of you will not like what I am saying. You do not agree with something that someone says that is fine, but that does not give you the right to turn a place where a young women that was asking for help and advice into your personal ego war over words. You have a problem with something someone says take it else where, start a new thread just to bash the person, send them a PM, but do not do it where a person needs good advice. Because now instead of getting solid, good, decent advice, now she is having to sit here and read through all this shit from everyone and is probably feeling even more lost, lonely, and confused wondering if she will ever find an answer to her question.

Yeah great job all of you once it turned into a war of egos you really helped her out, way to go. *sarcasm*

 

[satindesire]

To the other responders
I know I will probably be hated for this, but I have decided that I do not care. Please explain to me when has it become acceptable for GROWN adults to come on here and act like little children and get into a pissing/ego war over what somebody said? Like really people? This young women put her thoughts of what she is going through out there seeking help, seeking advice and what does she get? A few good/decent responses and then a war of words for a full 2 to 3 pages of responses. Please explain to me how that HELPS HER? Because from where I sit it doesn't help her at all. Not everyone on here is going to post something you agree with, that is the real world we live in, someone, in fact probably ALL of you will not like what I am saying. You do not agree with something that someone says that is fine, but that does not give you the right to turn a place where a young women that was asking for help and advice into your personal ego war over words. You have a problem with something someone says take it else where, start a new thread just to bash the person, send them a PM, but do not do it where a person needs good advice. Because now instead of getting solid, good, decent advice, now she is having to sit here and read through all this shit from everyone and is probably feeling even more lost, lonely, and confused wondering if she will ever find an answer to her question.

Yeah great job all of you once it turned into a war of egos you really helped her out, way to go. *sarcasm*

Way to follow your own advice, broseph. *sarcasm*

 

[Ropebunny]

Way to follow your own advice, broseph. *sarcasm*

 

[satindesire]

They're OBVI new here.

 

[lissa808]

Having been very involved with a BDSM couple that was in a TPE relationship when I was vey young, although not a virgin, I would say it definately affected me and the way I viewed my sexuality, my views of "right and wrong" about sex. It's good to talk to people that are like minded before jumping into anything

 

[sweetstalker]

I sympathize so completely with TortureMeSoftly because I have actually lived this same scenario.

My one recommendation may be lame to the hardcore BDSM folks out there, but a somewhat subtle way to bring up such a discussion with a potential partner could be buying the Fifty Shades Trilogy and let him see you read it or leave it within sight. It's a common enough book that it's not expensive (not a horrible read btw, just in case you haven't read it yet) and if your potential partner, or PP from now on, does see it and comment you can always brush itoff with- "Oh well I've heard about it so much on the news/online/from friends that I had to see what the fuss was about. I've already read a few pages and found a few interesting things." Then gauge PP's reaction. Curiosity or genuine interest is a good sign. If he shows disgust, well obviously it's a no-go. Now if you decide you like PP enough to forego the chance to experience BDSM as part of your relationship, then just brush it off and say you read it because a friend recommended it. That way you can get an idea without outright stating your sexual preferences to someone you're not yet involved with. .

I say this because I'm also a virgin and have always had a possibly overly-healthy interest in sex and porn and erotica and by having frank conversations with my guy friends when I was younger- all of whom were ecstatic just to have a friend who wasn't ashamed and didn't shame them over sexual feelings- I used to feel safe with them. but later in college and meeting people for the first time, I realized that there are those who take your openness for discussion as an invitation to molest or harass you or shame you afterwards (or worse yet start telling your mutual contacts or spreading rumors) for your personal beliefs and opinions. I would hate to see this happen to you or anyone else.That's the bad side of talking about your likes and dislikes openly.

For someone who doesn't have personal experience to back up her stated "preferences" or to be able to say 100% certain whether you actually will enjoy a D/s relationship, part- or full-time what you're probably really curious about is whether your PP is interested in or willing to try BDSM in the bedroom, not even talking about a full-time D/s deal (which you've already given us to believe you are NOT crazy about that particular situation). So, tread lightly-while you have every right to your personal tastes so does your PP. It's possible he might despise BDSM or you will be very turned off by his unnamed fetish. Respect his right to say no to this, as you have the right to say yes or no to his particular wants.

And depending on your personality-Shameless types like me will just bring up my fetishes as regular conversation topics. Shy types may want the Fifty Shades gimmick or something else to hide behind if things with your PP don't work out as you wish.

Now if he's into it, talk about it, try things out (like role-play, giving "orders", light play- like spanking and tying up with loose scarves that can be slipped in a moment while giving the ILLUSION of bondage, etc. because you're probably not yet sure what your limits are so be careful!). Then if you both like that, THEN figure out how much of that you want in your life. Just the bedroom/during sex? Just the home between the two of you in your day-to-day relationship? Or 24/7 in public? Try it all little by little and if you find something you don't like, tell your PP and if you do like it, tell your PP. Trial and error, with lots of patience and understanding

I know I said alot, but I hope I gave you something to at least think about. Much luck!

 

[sweetstalker]

I sympathize so completely with TortureMeSoftly because I have actually lived this same scenario.

My one recommendation may be lame to the hardcore BDSM folks out there, but a somewhat subtle way to bring up such a discussion with a potential partner could be buying the Fifty Shades Trilogy and let him see you read it or leave it within sight. It's a common enough book that it's not expensive (not a horrible read btw, just in case you haven't read it yet) and if your potential partner, or PP from now on, does see it and comment you can always brush itoff with- "Oh well I've heard about it so much on the news/online/from friends that I had to see what the fuss was about. I've already read a few pages and found a few interesting things." Then gauge PP's reaction. Curiosity or genuine interest is a good sign. If he shows disgust, well obviously it's a no-go. Now if you decide you like PP enough to forego the chance to experience BDSM as part of your relationship, then just brush it off and say you read it because a friend recommended it. That way you can get an idea without outright stating your sexual preferences to someone you're not yet involved with. .

I say this because I'm also a virgin and have always had a possibly overly-healthy interest in sex and porn and erotica and by having frank conversations with my guy friends when I was younger- all of whom were ecstatic just to have a friend who wasn't ashamed and didn't shame them over sexual feelings- I used to feel safe with them. but later in college and meeting people for the first time, I realized that there are those who take your openness for discussion as an invitation to molest or harass you or shame you afterwards (or worse yet start telling your mutual contacts or spreading rumors) for your personal beliefs and opinions. I would hate to see this happen to you or anyone else.That's the bad side of talking about your likes and dislikes openly.

For someone who doesn't have personal experience to back up her stated "preferences" or to be able to say 100% certain whether you actually will enjoy a D/s relationship, part- or full-time what you're probably really curious about is whether your PP is interested in or willing to try BDSM in the bedroom, not even talking about a full-time D/s deal (which you've already given us to believe you are NOT crazy about that particular situation). So, tread lightly-while you have every right to your personal tastes so does your PP. It's possible he might despise BDSM or you will be very turned off by his unnamed fetish. Respect his right to say no to this, as you have the right to say yes or no to his particular wants.

And depending on your personality-Shameless types like me will just bring up my fetishes as regular conversation topics. Shy types may want the Fifty Shades gimmick or something else to hide behind if things with your PP don't work out as you wish.

Now if he's into it, talk about it, try things out (like role-play, giving "orders", light play- like spanking and tying up with loose scarves that can be slipped in a moment while giving the ILLUSION of bondage, etc. because you're probably not yet sure what your limits are so be careful!). Then if you both like that, THEN figure out how much of that you want in your life. Just the bedroom/during sex? Just the home between the two of you in your day-to-day relationship? Or 24/7 in public? Try it all little by little and if you find something you don't like, tell your PP and if you do like it, tell your PP. Trial and error, with lots of patience and understanding

I know I said alot, but I hope I gave you something to at least think about. Much luck!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I sympathize so completely with TortureMeSoftly because I have actually lived this same scenario.

My one recommendation may be lame to the hardcore BDSM folks out there, but a somewhat subtle way to bring up such a discussion with a potential partner could be buying the Fifty Shades Trilogy and let him see you read it or leave it within sight. It's a common enough book that it's not expensive (not a horrible read btw, just in case you haven't read it yet) and if your potential partner, or PP from now on, does see it and comment you can always brush itoff with- "Oh well I've heard about it so much on the news/online/from friends that I had to see what the fuss was about. I've already read a few pages and found a few interesting things." Then gauge PP's reaction. Curiosity or genuine interest is a good sign. If he shows disgust, well obviously it's a no-go.

"Disgust" is ambiguous. It could mean that they're revolted by the idea of BDSM, but there are a lot of enthusiastic BDSMers who really dislike how that particular book depicts BDSM.

Unfortunately I can't suggest a good alternative off the top of my head - there are books which IMHO do a better job at portraying BDSM, but I can't think of any that would be as easily recognised as 50SoG.

 

[satindesire]

"Disgust" is ambiguous. It could mean that they're revolted by the idea of BDSM, but there are a lot of enthusiastic BDSMers who really dislike how that particular book depicts BDSM.

Unfortunately I can't suggest a good alternative off the top of my head - there are books which IMHO do a better job at portraying BDSM, but I can't think of any that would be as easily recognised as 50SoG.

When Someone You Love Is Kinky: http://www.amazon.com/When-Someone-You-Love-Kinky/dp/1890159239

Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns: http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-S...1&keywords=screw+the+roses+send+me+the+thorns

The Ultimate Guide to Kink: http://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-Guide-Kink-Erotic/dp/157344779X/ref=pd_sim_b_4

The New Bottoming Book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Bottoming-Book-Janet-Hardy/dp/1890159352/ref=pd_sim_b_5 (I highly recommend this book)

The New Topping Book: http://www.amazon.com/New-Topping-B...81624990&sr=1-1&keywords=the+new+topping+book (I highly recommend this book as well)

 

[Bramblethorn]

When Someone You Love Is Kinky: http://www.amazon.com/When-Someone-You-Love-Kinky/dp/1890159239

Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns: http://www.amazon.com/Screw-Roses-S...1&keywords=screw+the+roses+send+me+the+thorns

The Ultimate Guide to Kink: http://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-Guide-Kink-Erotic/dp/157344779X/ref=pd_sim_b_4

The New Bottoming Book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Bottoming-Book-Janet-Hardy/dp/1890159352/ref=pd_sim_b_5 (I highly recommend this book)

The New Topping Book: http://www.amazon.com/New-Topping-B...81624990&sr=1-1&keywords=the+new+topping+book (I highly recommend this book as well)

Those are good references on kink; I have four of them. But I think Sweetstalker was talking about using 50SoG as a conversation-starter that leaves space for deniability - "me, kinky? I'm just reading it to see what all the fuss is about". Once I pull out one of those, I've pretty much irrevocably tagged myself.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Those are all now-to books, not fiction-for-pleasure books. (how-to-for-pleasure, for sure)

The only other thing I can think of is the Sleeping Beauty books but damn. Deniability has gone screaming out the door!

 

[Torinona]

Late to the party, just now reading through this thread...

... but simply had to say that CutieMousie's take on the OP's submission...

"Take the labels off things, and explore. Learn to say "I'm interested in X..." and see where things lead. Learn to talk about sex. Learn to be okay in your body. Learn to ask for what you want, and accept both "Hell yes!" and "Fuck no!" And realize that this sexual development stuff never really ends. (Says the woman in her 40s, still working through sexual development stuff."

This is such sage advice for anyone, at any age. I've had to not only learn and discover things about myself, sexually and otherwise, over literal decades, but also re-learn and re-discover them in various nuances and layers... and I am in my late 40s.

Tor

 

[satindesire]

Those are good references on kink; I have four of them. But I think Sweetstalker was talking about using 50SoG as a conversation-starter that leaves space for deniability - "me, kinky? I'm just reading it to see what all the fuss is about". Once I pull out one of those, I've pretty much irrevocably tagged myself.

Kinkiness is, a lot of times, just as much a part of our sexuality as being straight, gay, pan or bi.

If you have to deny such a huge part of your identity, you're in the wrong relationship.

 

[sweetstalker]

Kinkiness is, a lot of times, just as much a part of our sexuality as being straight, gay, pan or bi.

If you have to deny such a huge part of your identity, you're in the wrong relationship.

I would like to clarify that this deniability-clause I was offering is more in the case of- one she might actually care more about the other person in question than kinkiness, as TortureMeSoftly did seem to give off a certain virginal and innocent air.. It is actually possible that she might find herself satisfied in a 'vanilla' relationship and does deserve the chance to try it if she wants-after all any relationship is trial-and-error. She also might decide after the vanilla that it doesn't satisfy her and wants to leave. Or maybe not even try the vanilla and leave this person. And if she does I am certain she would prefer the CHANCE for deniability so that this other person won't have any stories to spread about her..after all she doesn't want to mention it "to the girls in bookclub" so probably wants to keep her personal tastes..well, personal.

I'm personally open about most of my tastes, but at the same time I believe anyone and everyone has the right to keep hush-hush in a very judgemental world.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Those are all now-to books, not fiction-for-pleasure books. (how-to-for-pleasure, for sure)

The only other thing I can think of is the Sleeping Beauty books but damn. Deniability has gone screaming out the door!

If it was more widely recognised, I'd suggest the Kushiel series. It has its flaws, but I think it does reasonably well at treating BDSM as something that happens within an ethical framework and doesn't need to be "cured". (There are several abusive and NC bits too, but at least Carey seems to know the difference.)

Unfortunately I had to give up reading because the storytelling went downhill, but that's another matter...

Kinkiness is, a lot of times, just as much a part of our sexuality as being straight, gay, pan or bi.

If you have to deny such a huge part of your identity, you're in the wrong relationship.

I tend to agree, but I think sweetstalker was talking about sounding out a potential partner before getting into a relationship. In that situation, I can see how it might be nice to find out whether they're kink-friendly before outing oneself.

In a pre-existing relationship, that's different. Being able to talk about what you want is an important skill, BDSM or not, and it's probably better to develop that skill rather than being subtle about it.

 

[sweetstalker]

"Disgust" is ambiguous. It could mean that they're revolted by the idea of BDSM, but there are a lot of enthusiastic BDSMers who really dislike how that particular book depicts BDSM.

Unfortunately I can't suggest a good alternative off the top of my head - there are books which IMHO do a better job at portraying BDSM, but I can't think of any that would be as easily recognised as 50SoG.

Those are good references on kink; I have four of them. But I think Sweetstalker was talking about using 50SoG as a conversation-starter that leaves space for deniability - "me, kinky? I'm just reading it to see what all the fuss is about". Once I pull out one of those, I've pretty much irrevocably tagged myself.

That's why I mentioned that alot of people might not enjoy that recommendation, but as Bramblethorn said, it's something more mainstream and widely-accepted. Btw the only person who would be offended by TortureMeSoftly's reading such a book would either be the "disgusted" person that she should avoid like the plague, or another person with BDSM interests who would probably recognize her interest in such a lifestyle and hopefully be willing to further educate and/or initiate her into what she wants.

Also, my choice of "disgust" has been used because the person who reacts so strongly- that is the type of person who will not compromise in any case. As long as a person is not FULLY against BDSM, I'm sure with alot of patience and communication TortureMeSoftly and her PP could come to an understanding, like the earlier examples I made in my original post.

 

[sweetstalker]

O_O my god Bramblethorn are you reading my mind? Thank you for so clearly stating what I've been trying to express. My thanks!