Should men expect monogamy from women?

[LMWM321]

2. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, women do not all lose their sex drive once they pass menopause. For some, their sex drive stays he same or increases in intensity. It may be her mind trying to prove to the woman that she's still desirable, but the condition is still there. For whatever reason, she's now free to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.

If the only sex a woman has come to expect from her husband, is that he engages in a little bit of foreplay, then climbs on her, jams his dick in her and pumps away....well, yeah, she's apt to lose all interest in sex. ..Because THAT kind of sex is apt to become quite unpleasant and perhaps even painful after menopause. ..But if her husband is and has always been a conscientious, unselfish lover., I think there's a very good chance she'll continue to want and enjoy sex because she knows her husband is going to make whatever adjustments necessary to make sex pleasurable.

As for your comment about hard-wiring. Sorry, but I don't buy it. As I've said in other threads, our "hard-wiring" is easily overridden by our cognition. As just one example: We naturally fear heights because we don't have wings and we injure easily if we fall from any height greater than five feet. Despite that fear, however, nearly all of us are quite comfortable boarding an airplane that cruises at 35,000 feet. Indeed, many of us (I call them lucky bastards) can get comfortable enough to sleep on them. It's our cognition that allows us to do this.

 

[MasterDarcy]

I do believe that women are hard-wired to seek out a husband who will provide for them and protect them. I also believe that men are hard-wired to impregnate as many women as possible. How influential that hard-wiring is in determining a person's conduct is subject to a lot of things.

Monogamy is in a married woman's best interests while she's in her childbearing and child rearing years. It's that way because when humans were evolving, lifetimes were short and having and raising children to adulthood was the only way a woman could pass on her genes.

Monogamy was not in the best interests for a man while he's young enough to be able to impregnate a woman. It's his only way of passing on his genes.

In today's world, things have changed, but not as much as some would believe.

It's still important for a woman to be in a monogamous relationship while she has children at home. That's no longer hard-wiring. It's just practicality. Once the kids are out on their own several things happen that should be considered mitigating circumstances.

1. Many women do not need a man's income to live comfortably. If she's self supporting, the risk of losing her husband is not a loss of financial security. It's just emotional security and that can be generated by a lover.
2. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, women do not all lose their sex drive once they pass menopause. For some, their sex drive stays he same or increases in intensity. It may be her mind trying to prove to the woman that she's still desirable, but the condition is still there. For whatever reason, she's now free to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.
3. Many men are not up to the task by the time their partner reaches that age, so to speak. Yes, monogamous couples can find ways around that issue, but for men, it's a sign that they aren't the man they once were and some stop trying. If the wife still has a need for intimacy, she might feel justified in seeking it with someone else.
4. Women are not more easily lured out of a monogamous relationship then men, but women do favor at least some form of romance in their lives while men favor willingness on the part of the woman. If the husband can't fulfill his wife's need for romance once in a while, she might seek that somewhere else. She doesn't have to actually have a sexual affair. Most of us have a "work spouse", the person we're closest to at work and with whom we share things we don't share with others. It's not a big step from that to sex if both people are willing for one of the above reasons.

In the end, I can't fault a woman for seeking a lover outside of her marriage any more than I can fault a man for doing the same thing. There are a lot of reasons, but I believe those reasons are the result of a marriage that probably shouldn't have happened to begin with.

What you're doing is generally reducing men to knuckledragging neanderthals who have no will of their own when it comes to sex.

I resent the implication.

It's the excuse that men use to sexually assault women:

"Was that wrong? I couldn't help it. It's in my genes to stick my penis in a vagina. It's not my fault, I'm doing what I'm 'hardwired' to do."

Personally, I'm single. I get hit on a lot, particularly online. However, I'm not some archetypal neanderthal who would sleep with anything in a skirt.

I have standards. That seems to be a dirty word these days.

Personally, it's hard enough for me to find someone who ticks all the boxes. So the odds of me being non-monogamous is nill.

The world has changed a lot.

In my travels I've met successful female therapists, Psychiatrists, neuro surgeons, NASA employees, self made millionaires, CEOs, etc.

All of the aforementioned didn't require a man to complete them or to make them happy or to pay for them, etc.

If people want to be in a poly relationship, more power to them. But it's nothing to do with being hot-wired. Humans aren't robots. Yes, they have set neural pathways, but they also have willpower and dignity, etc.

I'm out.

Nothing more has to be said.

Namaste.

 

[ronde]

What you're doing is generally reducing men to knuckledragging neanderthals who have no will of their own when it comes to sex.

I resent the implication.

It's the excuse that men use to sexually assault women:

"Was that wrong? I couldn't help it. It's in my genes to stick my penis in a vagina. It's not my fault, I'm doing what I'm 'hardwired' to do."

Personally, I'm single. I get hit on a lot, particularly online. However, I'm not some archetypal neanderthal who would sleep with anything in a skirt.

I have standards. That seems to be a dirty word these days.

Personally, it's hard enough for me to find someone who ticks all the boxes. So the odds of me being non-monogamous is nill.

The world has changed a lot.

In my travels I've met successful female therapists, Psychiatrists, neuro surgeons, NASA employees, self made millionaires, CEOs, etc.

All of the aforementioned didn't require a man to complete them or to make them happy or to pay for them, etc.

If people want to be in a poly relationship, more power to them. But it's nothing to do with being hot-wired. Humans aren't robots. Yes, they have set neural pathways, but they also have willpower and dignity, etc.

I'm out.

Nothing more has to be said.

Namaste.

You have entirely missed the points I was attempting to make after you read the first two sentences. If you do some research into the psychology of human behavior, you will realize that I barely scratched the surface of evolutionary traits passed down through humanity over the ages.

All I was saying is that evolution hardwired us to behave in a way to further the human species. To totally ignore how we evolved is folly. The traits instilled in us are there from birth, always have been, and always will be, just as are the traits of fear of heights, fear of snakes, fear of predators, and fear of small, dark spaces. All are survival traits and we all have them to some extent as well as others. If not from evolution, how did we learn those traits?

All I attempted to do was explain why some women might seek monogamy at during their childbearing years but change their mind once those years are behind them. I did not state that all men today roam the wilds of bars in an attempt to impregnate as many women as possible. When we roamed the land in small bands, lives were short and the gestation period of humans is relatively long. Raising a child to adulthood was iffy at best. Pregnant women could not hunt or do much of anything once half-way through the gestation period, and after the child was born, spent a significant amount of time raising that child to relative self-sufficiency. It was advantageous to a woman to mate with a man who would care for her through those years. It was the only way she could increase the odds of passing on her genes. It was advantageous to a man to impregnate as many women as possible to pass along his genes. I did not say he would do so and then abandon the woman to her fate. There have been and still are many cultures where men have multiple wives.

At no point did I say that those traits overpower any logical reasoning, learned behavior, or any other modification of evolutionary traits. I did not say those traits are present to such a degree that they dictate everything we do. Humans have evolved over the ages to understand that we can abandon those traits in order to conform with the rules and standards imposed by the society of the time in which we lived. To believe otherwise is to believe that human mind is not sufficiently intelligent to moderate basic instinct to something socially and morally acceptable. That most of us do is testimony to the fact that we control our own destiny, not the vestiges of survival instincts we've carried since time began. In times of great stress though, those survival instincts can and often do rise to the surface and dictate our actions.

 

[4yourpleasureiam]

No. My mother taught me that men should respect the wife's rights and she also related this to my bride.

 

[PleasureTime01]

I don’t feel anyone has any right or control over someone else’s body.

So no, definitely not.

 

[BInowGay]

And miss out on all those threesomes? I don't think so

 

[Ellewrites]

I think the world is an easier place if people are non monogamous. I think people are built to have long term partners for child rearing, shared goals, companionship, love. But sex? Nah. I think humans have a much higher drive to sleep around than most people think.

 

[ibshy2003]

Do you have any reason to think that your ex wife would have gone along with this?

Like, 20 years later why do you think she would not just be a cheater?

I believe it’s naïve for a husband to be married for many years. And believe his wife has not had a sexual relationship with anyone else. Women are hit on all the time it’s only a matter of time. Before they decide to have a sexual relationship outside of the marriage if the man is happy with his wife, he’s better off with a don’t ask don’t tell policy.

 

[MaturemanAJ]

No. My mother taught me that men should respect the wife's rights and she also related this to my bride.

And for you a different set of rules?

 

[4yourpleasureiam]

And for you a different set of rules?

Yes

 

[MaturemanAJ]

Yes

Well if you agree with it then it's fine.
Not many Mom's of boys I know would give that arrangement the thumbs up

 

[Nellie60]

I believe it’s naïve for a husband to be married for many years. And believe his wife has not had a sexual relationship with anyone else. Women are hit on all the time it’s only a matter of time. Before they decide to have a sexual relationship outside of the marriage if the man is happy with his wife, he’s better off with a don’t ask don’t tell policy.

Women are hit on constantly throughout time true.

Even if the sex is great at home eventually she may get up meeting someone who maybe more compatible for whatever reason and the sex is also wonderful.

And we all have fantasies we may end up making it a reality and unfortunately cheating is one of them.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

When you enter a relationship, it's a bit like signing a contract—not with a fancy pen and a notary public, but with a series of shared understandings and unspoken promises. Mutual trust is the cornerstone of this agreement. It's the belief that your partner has your back, that they'll be there through thick and thin, and that they'll respect the boundaries you've both set.
This trust isn't a one-way street; it's a two-way motorway. Both partners implicitly or explicitly agree to a certain level of commitment, and upholding that commitment is a sign of respect for the other person's feelings and for the relationship itself. When that promise is broken, it can be a seismic event, shattering the very foundation of the bond you've built together.
Ultimately, fidelity, like any other aspect of a healthy partnership, is a choice that's made by two people. It's not a duty imposed on one person, but a shared responsibility based on honesty, open communication, and respect.

 

[MaturemanAJ]

W

Women are hit on constantly throughout time true.

Even if the sex is great at home eventually she may get up meeting someone who maybe more compatible for whatever reason and the sex is also wonderful.

And we all have fantasies we may end up making it a reality and unfortunately cheating is one of them.

You ok if husband does?

 

[old_hippy_46]

I believe it’s naïve for a husband to be married for many years. And believe his wife has not had a sexual relationship with anyone else. Women are hit on all the time it’s only a matter of time. Before they decide to have a sexual relationship outside of the marriage if the man is happy with his wife, he’s better off with a don’t ask don’t tell policy.

I get things backwards a lot. I would expect my wife to have sex with othet men

I believe it’s naïve for a husband to be married for many years. And believe his wife has not had a sexual relationship with anyone else. Women are hit on all the time it’s only a matter of time. Before they decide to have a sexual relationship outside of the marriage if the man is happy with his wife, he’s better off with a don’t ask don’t tell policy.

I get things backwards a lot. I would expect my wife to have sex with other men. Someone mentioned that women get hit on a lot, so I would suspect the right guy says the right things to her and she accepts his advances. Just being realistic here.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

I get things backwards a lot. I would expect my wife to have sex with othet men

I get things backwards a lot. I would expect my wife to have sex with other men. Someone mentioned that women get hit on a lot, so I would suspect the right guy says the right things to her and she accepts his advances. Just being realistic here.

You have an astonishingly high opinion of women. Where do you get your education? Or to put it another way, do you read anything other than short stories in the “Loving Wives” section?
By the way, just in case no one has told you yet, porn is not a documentary of actual events.

 

[GoodnessO]

You have an astonishingly high opinion of women. Where do you get your education? Or to put it another way, do you read anything other than short stories in the “Loving Wives” section?
By the way, just in case no one has told you yet, porn is not a documentary of actual events.

Check out his profile. His education includes the Summer of Love, in San Francisco. You say, he's got an ASTONISHINGLY high opinion of women. But you're being sarcastic?? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a high opinion of women.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

Check out his profile. His education includes the Summer of Love, in San Francisco. You say, he's got an ASTONISHINGLY high opinion of women. But you're being sarcastic?? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a high opinion of women.

Sarcasm? What, who, me?
As I have already emphasised elsewhere, it is extremely unlikely that, outside of pornography, a man would accidentally or intentionally touch a woman on the elbow and she would then immediately remove her clothing and ask the gentleman to impregnate her.
Conversely, I have never personally observed this happening either.
The more likely reaction is, "Would you please refrain from touching me? I do not find it pleasant at all, and your behaviour and appearance do not arouse me sexually in any way. Your personal hygiene also does not contribute positively to your appearance. Let me add that even if you share parts of its external appearance, I have serious doubts that your genitals resemble those of a donkey. By this I explicitly mean its cleanliness and size. Unlike you, donkeys are extremely clean animals."
Presumably, the woman expresses herself in a slightly more flowery and concise manner.

 

[GoodnessO]

Sarcasm? What, who, me?
As I have already emphasised elsewhere, it is extremely unlikely that, outside of pornography, a man would accidentally or intentionally touch a woman on the elbow and she would then immediately remove her clothing and ask the gentleman to impregnate her.
Conversely, I have never personally observed this happening either.
The more likely reaction is, "Would you please refrain from touching me? I do not find it pleasant at all, and your behaviour and appearance do not arouse me sexually in any way. Your personal hygiene also does not contribute positively to your appearance. Let me add that even if you share parts of its external appearance, I have serious doubts that your genitals resemble those of a donkey. By this I explicitly mean its cleanliness and size. Unlike you, donkeys are extremely clean animals."
Presumably, the woman expresses herself in a slightly more flowery and concise manner.

I presume you're referring to his stories... I don't believe I've read any of them, so my apology. I just think women deserve respect & freedom.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

I presume you're referring to his stories... I don't believe I've read any of them, so my apology. I just think women deserve respect & freedom.

Do they?
They don't have the brains to survive without regular fucking by a big cock.
Please, pretty please don't tell me that you still not get my sarcasm.

I'm sorry, my humour is an acquired taste, I'm afraid.

No, I didn't read his stories. I was just referring to his incredibly stupid remark about women not having their own free will and dignity. Because that's what his remark is all about. Men having dignity and women not having it.
I mean, just because some wanker tired of his sexual relationship with Rosy Palm walks up to you, giving you the typical "I'm sorry I'm new in the area, where do you live?" approach doesn't mean that the female part of humanity is compelled to spread the legs in anticipation, right?
Yes, right. Because I am right

 

[GoodnessO]

I guess I'm not so jaded as that. And I just might wanna spread my legs for that cock. My hubby has become unable, & I have a very hungry kitty. No breeding for me, though. LOL.

 

[write_or_wrong]

As for your comment about hard-wiring. Sorry, but I don't buy it. As I've said in other threads, our "hard-wiring" is easily overridden by our cognition. As just one example: We naturally fear heights because we don't have wings and we injure easily if we fall from any height greater than five feet. Despite that fear, however, nearly all of us are quite comfortable boarding an airplane that cruises at 35,000 feet. Indeed, many of us (I call them lucky bastards) can get comfortable enough to sleep on them. It's our cognition that allows us to do this.

I have enjoyed reading your comments here and in other threads. But I have to take issue on your assertion that cognition can "easily" overcome hard-wiring. If that is generally true, how would you explain the myriad dependencies and addictions we see? If we know intellectually that being overweight shortens our life, why can't the higher power of cognition overcome our excessive appetite? Or encourage us to get more exercise? I was going to reference smoking, but that is probably more of a chemical addiction than gene-based hard-wiring.

I will come back to your example of acrophobia. I have it - even getting up on my roof is difficult. Movies that show people on ledges bother me. But I am not only a frequent air traveler, I have four pilot licenses and never fear looking out the window. In that case my cognition of aerodynamics seems to overcome what my eyes see. But that's because my eyes see what they think is simply a picture - two dimensional. When I am on a ladder, the view is three-dimensional. When I watch a movie with a guy on a ledge, it's also three-dimensionally because the director cleverly shows me the side of the building all the way from the guy's feet to the ground below where he would ... never mind, that's too gruesome for me to consider. But why can't my cognition say to me "Relax, it's only a movie; pieces of celluloid, or ones and zeroes in a digital file?" Instead, my spine tingles and sometimes I have to look away. Isn't that hard-wiring winning the battle?

 

[Statius]

When you enter a relationship, it's a bit like signing a contract—not with a fancy pen and a notary public, but with a series of shared understandings and unspoken promises. Mutual trust is the cornerstone of this agreement. It's the belief that your partner has your back, that they'll be there through thick and thin, and that they'll respect the boundaries you've both set.
This trust isn't a one-way street; it's a two-way motorway. Both partners implicitly or explicitly agree to a certain level of commitment, and upholding that commitment is a sign of respect for the other person's feelings and for the relationship itself. When that promise is broken, it can be a seismic event, shattering the very foundation of the bond you've built together.
Ultimately, fidelity, like any other aspect of a healthy partnership, is a choice that's made by two people. It's not a duty imposed on one person, but a shared responsibility based on honesty, open communication, and respect.

Seems obvious. Also seems odd you had to spell it out. Go figure. Pple here tho love splitting hairs and arguing.

 

[PierceDe]

If a person, man or woman, has agreed to monogamy then the person they've agreed with has a right to expect it.

Wise or realistic to expect it is another matter. I think a smart person should sum and weigh all the various factors that increase and decrease the likelihood their partner would cheat. Some things up the odds; is she a nurse or teacher? Does he travel for work? Were they promiscuous before (promiscuity is a habit and habits die hard)? Did her mom or his dad cheat? Siblings cheat? Friends cheat? You can never know-know, but you can bet.

 

[LMWM321]

But I have to take issue on your assertion that cognition can "easily" overcome hard-wiring. If that is generally true, how would you explain the myriad dependencies and addictions we see? If we know intellectually that being overweight shortens our life, why can't the higher power of cognition overcome our excessive appetite? Or encourage us to get more exercise?

Hi @write_or_wrong

As I see it, what you're describing - ie., addictions, and phobias, - are mental illnesses. ..And they are defined as illnesses precisely for the reason you describe - they cannot be overcome with mere cognition. And I'm not throwing shade on people who suffer from phobias and addictions; indeed, many of us do, including your's truly.

The point I was trying to make is that women tend to be more monogamous than men NOT because of an innate preference to be with just one person, but rather because of a deep-seated understanding that they are at MUCH greater risk of being physically assaulted by their hook-up once they are behind closed doors; they are more likely to be beaten or killed by their spurned husband if he finds out; AND they are more apt to be slut-shamed and shunned by family and friends if their affair is exposed. In short, pursuing sexual variety is far riskier for women. But if the risks were no greater for women than men, they would be just as unfaithful as men.