Seriously

[Keroin]

Interesting replies.


Here's where I'm at. Life is too damn short, in my opinion. That doesn't mean I never take anything seriously or analyze my life, behaviour, relationship, etc, I just don't kid myself about the big picture.

As for my relationship, it "is". It is also ever-evolving, for the most part organically. I love and value my husband. Beyond that...? Well, my relationship with L is one aspect of my life - a fantastic aspect that enhances everything else, but one aspect nonethless. I also have my writing, my sports, travel, family and friends, causes that I'm passionate about, hobbies, etc, etc. I give more weight to some things and less to others but there's a nice balance all around.

For me, to focus almost exclusively on L and the BDSM dynamic between us, would mean taking away focus from all the other parts of my life that I love and enjoy. In the moment, the power dynamic between us can be all-consuming, outside of the moment, however, it becomes just another aspect of my life.

And frankly I don't care if anyone sees my BDSM as less BDSM-y than theirs, though I'm sure there are those who upon reading the above would be very dismissive of me.

 

[JMohegan]

Am I the only person here that translates "Play" as "engaging in BDSM-related activities?"

I ONLY play. I do not lifestyle. I am quite intent on my play, and it's extremely important to me-- keeps me sane and engaged. It's a requirement.

Sometimes play is frightening. Often it is dead serious. What it isn't, in my world at least, is permanent. And although I sometimes crush heavy on a play partner, I'm wierdly okay with that impermanence.

And that's what I have to say about that.

No, you're not the only one. I'd say that's the most commonly used translation of the word, in a kinky context.

I assume kinksters adopted the word "play" as a means to distinguish BDSM from abuse. While I understand the intent, and sometimes adopt the wording in general conversation with those who employ it, I'm personally way too literal to use the word with a partner when discussing activities that are passionate or intense. For example, "rape play" is a term I would never use to describe what happens when my most aggressive sexual being is unleashed.

 

[Cattypuss]

I am a strictly bedroom-only pyl and I have no problem with that. Some pyls are pyls through and through and it colours every aspect of their lives and I have no problem with that. Some pyls are somewhere in between and I have no problem with that.

When I'm in the process of being dommed I take it deadly seriously (just because that's the hottest dynamic for me). But at other times I don't take the fact that I can be dommed in the bedroom seriously at all.

To me it's just a kink. Just a way for me to have the hottest sex that I can have.

I am in a relationship with a man who's kinky as hell (kinkiest man I've ever known, in fact) but not particularly domly. He'll gladly inflict pain on me (I'm a masochist) but hasn't got a convincing domly bone in his body.

Do I miss having a lover who dominates me in bed? Who can do the domly mind-fuck on me? Hell, yes. Do I miss it enough to leave him or seek extras on the side? Hell, no.

 

[sb2009]

Interesting replies.


.

And frankly I don't care if anyone sees my BDSM as less BDSM-y than theirs, though I'm sure there are those who upon reading the above would be very dismissive of me.

The Black Leather True BDSM representatives will arrive shortly to rescind your membership card. They may use the brain-wipey thingy.

 

[JMohegan]

Interesting replies.


Here's where I'm at. Life is too damn short, in my opinion. That doesn't mean I never take anything seriously or analyze my life, behaviour, relationship, etc, I just don't kid myself about the big picture.

As for my relationship, it "is". It is also ever-evolving, for the most part organically. I love and value my husband. Beyond that...? Well, my relationship with L is one aspect of my life - a fantastic aspect that enhances everything else, but one aspect nonethless. I also have my writing, my sports, travel, family and friends, causes that I'm passionate about, hobbies, etc, etc. I give more weight to some things and less to others but there's a nice balance all around.

For me, to focus almost exclusively on L and the BDSM dynamic between us, would mean taking away focus from all the other parts of my life that I love and enjoy. In the moment, the power dynamic between us can be all-consuming, outside of the moment, however, it becomes just another aspect of my life.

And frankly I don't care if anyone sees my BDSM as less BDSM-y than theirs, though I'm sure there are those who upon reading the above would be very dismissive of me.

A control-based relationship, and a full & vibrant life of work, sports, travel, family, friends, are not mutually exclusive.

This is how misunderstandings and assumptions of derision or superiority happen on the board. Someone says something like: "You love and trust your partner completely, you're totally committed to him, you must be a slave!" And the clear implication is that those who don't ID as slaves must somehow love or trust their partners less, or be less committed to their relationships. Which is nonsense.

 

[midwestyankee]

The Black Leather True BDSM representatives will arrive shortly to rescind your membership card. They may use the brain-wipey thingy.

I've heard about those four B, D, S, and M. They wear identical black suits and you're in deep shit when they put their sunglasses on, right?

 

[CutieMouse]

See now I have no idea how/where I fall on the spectrum [again], because I care way more about a guy's life than how skilled the "community" thinks he is. And I see dating advice at Fet saying "meet at a much for your first date so you can know you're safe!" and think "WTF? Why would I gauge someone off their behavior in a fishbowl? And I don't go to munches, so doing that just to date doesn't make sense..."

But at the same time, if a guy can't give off a certain vibe/grasp how I operate re: this whole control/power thing, I'm not interested.

Whiiiiiiiich is probably why I suck so much at dating. lol

 

[JMohegan]

And frankly I don't care if anyone sees my BDSM as less BDSM-y than theirs, though I'm sure there are those who upon reading the above would be very dismissive of me.

I am "less BDSM-y" than a lot of people. I don't mind saying it, and I don't mind if people see me that way, because I do not see "BDSM-y" as a qualitative trait.

The real problem is that a lot of people do see "BDSM-y" as a qualitative trait. Reflective of superior creativity, sexual energy, trust in & dedication to a partner, and spectacular communication skills.

It's that total failure to understand or acknowledge how non-kinky people could possibly be creative, sexually energetic, etc., from which BDSM snootiness springs forth.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think one distinction to make is between taking one's bdsm activities (i.e., play) seriously and taking one's bdsm-y self-identity seriously.

My guess is that many of the folks who seem to have the attitude that Keroin described in her first post fall into the latter category. Their seriousness about their ID can bleed into their utter seriousness for their activities. Then when they get into a forum discussion their attitude may appear to be like the gamers that ravenwind described.

I take everything in my life seriously except myself.

Note to JM: I liked your inclusion of "competitiveness" in your post. I think that competitiveness is common among those who take their IDs very seriously and that may also contribute to their sense of being superior to others.

Now, before I confuse anyone...when I talk of bdsm-y identity, I'm referring to folks who seem to draw most of their self-worth from the bdsm part of their lives. I see that a fair amount in people I've met via fetlife and at local kinky dinners and munches. They're not bad people but they're drawing more of their self-worth from the nature of their sex and relationships than I do. Others, even those who live what we might call a 24-7 bdsm life don't seem to take as large a portion of their self-worth from their bdsm activities. Not sure how much sense I'm making on my first cup of coffee here, but the difference I'm trying to draw has to do with what's behind the outward attitude.

 

[midwestyankee]

I am "less BDSM-y" than a lot of people. I don't mind saying it, and I don't mind if people see me that way, because I do not see "BDSM-y" as a qualitative trait.

The real problem is that a lot of people do see "BDSM-y" as a qualitative trait. Reflective of superior creativity, sexual energy, trust in & dedication to a partner, and spectacular communication skills.

It's that total failure to understand or acknowledge how non-kinky people could possibly be creative, sexually energetic, etc., from which BDSM snootiness springs forth.

This is a good articulation of the notion of what's behind the outward attitude that I was getting at just now in my post.

 

[DVS]

As someone else has already said, this is seen in many areas, not just BDSM relationships. I am mostly a player, bedroom fun and all that. I'll go for a long weekend session like someone else might go camping. I look forward to it, and once it's over, I look forward to the next one.

I might have been into the 24/7 thing at one time, but it takes two to tango and I never found that second person to dance with. Some of the 24/7 crowd assume they are the real deal and people like me are somehow less. But not all 24/7 people are like that. Just like some people like me assume the 24/7 crowd is stuck up and don't play.

I've been a musician for over 40 years, now and I've seen it in that industry, too. When first starting out and playing in local bands, there were those who had the expensive equipment and those who couldn't afford it. Those with the expensive equipment looked down on those with the less expensive stuff, as if they weren't serious about their craft. The music was the same, the talent was the same, but because they had the expensive stuff, they were more devoted.

It spilled over into the industry, too. If someone wanted to sign you, if you didn't have the expensive stuff, look the part with long hair and stylish clothes, you somehow didn't have the necessary drive. There were a lot of bands that had less talent, but because they had the good stuff and looked like rock stars everybody thought they were stars. Somehow, the necessary talent fell to the side.

Shit, I've even seen it in my friends. I bought a cordless drill a while back and a friend saw it. He said, "oh, you've got a small one. You should see mine." Then he went on to explain to me how his was not only larger, but would do most anything, just short of washing the dishes. Frankly, my drill isn't small. But, when I was purchasing it, I wanted to drill holes and drive in screws with it without a lot of bulk I didn't need. I had no intention of splurging for the top of the line model or even the brand that the "pros" use. I can't wait until it gets a little old and someone who just purchased the latest model informs me of that fact.

Why do people act this way? I don't know. I think it's a certain personality, because everybody isn't that way. Some just like to have the best stuff, the largest drill and fastest car. It could be that they didn't suck on their mother's tits enough when they were babies. I hear mother's milk does a lot for someone, and if you're deprived of it, you suffer in adulthood.

 

[sb2009]

Because i'm a dirty lurker at times, I read in some of the "serious" forums on Fetlife and sometimes I have to shake my head and say "ok, that works for them, doesn't mean it's better or worse than what you do sillly girl."

The Masters and Slaves forum there is sooo serious and it's fascinating reading LOL

 

[eastern sun]

Here's where I'm at. Life is too damn short, in my opinion. That doesn't mean I never take anything seriously or analyze my life, behaviour, relationship, etc, I just don't kid myself about the big picture.

As for my relationship, it "is". It is also ever-evolving, for the most part organically. I love and value my husband. Beyond that...? Well, my relationship with L is one aspect of my life - a fantastic aspect that enhances everything else, but one aspect nonethless. I also have my writing, my sports, travel, family and friends, causes that I'm passionate about, hobbies, etc, etc. I give more weight to some things and less to others but there's a nice balance all around.

For me, to focus almost exclusively on L and the BDSM dynamic between us, would mean taking away focus from all the other parts of my life that I love and enjoy. In the moment, the power dynamic between us can be all-consuming, outside of the moment, however, it becomes just another aspect of my life.

By the way, for the record, I don't hold the view that any form of sexuality is more or less than any other. I do think people take it more or less seriously, though

I wanted to comment and say that I have never been balanced. My sexuality in its heightened forms (meaning most aroused) is obsessive and all-encompassing. I do sacrifice lots of things - things I can also become obsessed about - to engage completely with my sexual relationship(s). Hence, the on and off quality to it. Not moment by moment in a day, but years by years.

Coping with my tendency to become imbalanced has been the story of my life. And because sometimes I have greedily hoarded fool's gold thinking I'd get rich, I've learned to be more careful in following my sexual impulses before I end up poverty stricken with hands full of dust.

 

[Keroin]

See now I have no idea how/where I fall on the spectrum [again], because I care way more about a guy's life than how skilled the "community" thinks he is. And I see dating advice at Fet saying "meet at a much for your first date so you can know you're safe!" and think "WTF? Why would I gauge someone off their behavior in a fishbowl? And I don't go to munches, so doing that just to date doesn't make sense..."

But at the same time, if a guy can't give off a certain vibe/grasp how I operate re: this whole control/power thing, I'm not interested.

Whiiiiiiiich is probably why I suck so much at dating. lol

Re: the bold.

I don't see this as any different than any mainstream traits though. A man who doesn't make me laugh or grasp my need for frivolity is a man I wouldn't be interested in. A man who has no desire to "go outside and play" is a man I wouldn't be interested in. And so on.

My guess is you don't suck at dating. My guess is that you know, very specifically, what you desire in a mate and you value yourself enough to just not "settle" for someone who is only "sort of" what you're looking for. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Keroin]

Because i'm a dirty lurker at times, I read in some of the "serious" forums on Fetlife and sometimes I have to shake my head and say "ok, that works for them, doesn't mean it's better or worse than what you do sillly girl."

The Masters and Slaves forum there is sooo serious and it's fascinating reading LOL

I'll have to pop on and read some time. I've been to Fetlife once. Had no desire to return.

 

[Keroin]

The real problem is that a lot of people do see "BDSM-y" as a qualitative trait. Reflective of superior creativity, sexual energy, trust in & dedication to a partner, and spectacular communication skills.

It's that total failure to understand or acknowledge how non-kinky people could possibly be creative, sexually energetic, etc., from which BDSM snootiness springs forth.

This strikes me as true.

I have a hard time understanding the annoyance with the "Ooo, I've been such a naughty boy/girl, I need to be punished" posters/threads. There are a plethora of posts and threads here that I know, from a glance, I have no interest in and skip over. Thus far, my eyeballs have not fallen out of my head and I haven't broken any dinner plates over it.

I mean football? Who would waste their time talking about such a silly sport on a BDSM forum?

 

[00Syd]

This is how misunderstandings and assumptions of derision or superiority happen on the board. Someone says something like: "You love and trust your partner completely, you're totally committed to him, you must be a slave!" And the clear implication is that those who don't ID as slaves must somehow love or trust their partners less, or be less committed to their relationships. Which is nonsense.

It's that total failure to understand or acknowledge how non-kinky people could possibly be creative, sexually energetic, etc., from which BDSM snootiness springs forth.

Yes and yes. Spot on.

I think one distinction to make is between taking one's bdsm activities (i.e., play) seriously and taking one's bdsm-y self-identity seriously.

My guess is that many of the folks who seem to have the attitude that Keroin described in her first post fall into the latter category. Their seriousness about their ID can bleed into their utter seriousness for their activities. Then when they get into a forum discussion their attitude may appear to be like the gamers that ravenwind described.

I take everything in my life seriously except myself.

Note to JM: I liked your inclusion of "competitiveness" in your post. I think that competitiveness is common among those who take their IDs very seriously and that may also contribute to their sense of being superior to others.

Now, before I confuse anyone...when I talk of bdsm-y identity, I'm referring to folks who seem to draw most of their self-worth from the bdsm part of their lives. I see that a fair amount in people I've met via fetlife and at local kinky dinners and munches. They're not bad people but they're drawing more of their self-worth from the nature of their sex and relationships than I do. Others, even those who live what we might call a 24-7 bdsm life don't seem to take as large a portion of their self-worth from their bdsm activities. Not sure how much sense I'm making on my first cup of coffee here, but the difference I'm trying to draw has to do with what's behind the outward attitude.

And I think that this is pretty spot on, too. It's not like every 24/7 uber-slave defines themselves ONLY as an uber-slave. The most slavey-type slave that I know defines herself by her job, her hobbies, and her interests as well as her dynamic with her mister. They are both so down to earth, and laugh about their dynamic all the time. them. They've been some of the few intensely-M/s folks that I feel comfortable asking questions about M/s stuff with.

 

[Keroin]

I wanted to comment and say that I have never been balanced. My sexuality in its heightened forms (meaning most aroused) is obsessive and all-encompassing. I do sacrifice lots of things - things I can also become obsessed about - to engage completely with my sexual relationship(s). Hence, the on and off quality to it. Not moment by moment in a day, but years by years.

Coping with my tendency to become imbalanced has been the story of my life. And because sometimes I have greedily hoarded fool's gold thinking I'd get rich, I've learned to be more careful in following my sexual impulses before I end up poverty stricken with hands full of dust.

This is relevant to me. The times in my life (certain periods of the late teens/early twenties) when I've let myself become sex-centric have always been the times when I was most unhappy in all the other areas of my life. I made poor decisions, I neglected people who were important to me, my judgment was impaired. I figured out pretty quickly that balance wasn't about taking the fun out of my life, it was about increasing my overall happiness.

In any case, that's how it worked for me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You've been here a lot longer than me. I'm trying to think if it's been the other way while I've been here. I don't think so.

I don't think it has anything to do with how long anyone has been here, more about reading what is posted...a quick cruise through the discussions will find a multitude of threads, and also comments in other threads, dedicated to questioning those who choose a 24/7 lifestyle over a part- time thing (and not in an exploratory interested knowledge sharing way which is always OK), and declaring how people who claim to live 24/7, TPE are just plain lying as it is not possible. For that matter who says that everyone has to be a fun loving, party animal to be considered OK? Wasn't me, but the discussion seems to keep going back to this idea that 24/7 people don't have fun or laughter in their lives, and as such, this makes them less than OK and fair game...at least this is the way I am feeling it, perhaps because I am tired of going down this track every few months where those who do not choose 24/7, set themselves up as experts and judges on it based on their assumed view, but don't anyone dare challenge it or you are obviously proving them right!!

This thread once again seems to keep going back to a set view of people who are 24/7 in that it is assumed for the most part they look down on others, don't have an ounce of fun to the point of my being questioned about if and how I am playful, and comparisons from those who are not 24/7 where they assume 24/7 means the people involved do not have an interest in anything else in life ....once again, a huge misconception I grew tired of explaining a long time ago, and yes, which has been explained by many more times than I care to count and yet we keep going back to this fantasy porn image.... And this has all been delivered with a sense that it is 24/7 people who are the problem, while those feeling victimised are completely innocent, caring people, and yet we did not start this discussion. Funny thing is, on this forum at least, those who are 24/7, and even more so TPE, are the minority by far, so I am not getting why some of the majority feel so discriminated against when they are the ones posting the most, opening the most threads, and putting across their viewpoints most, and tossing around accusations.

People choose to believe what they want, and they choose to live how they want. Whether someone has fun as understood by Joe Bloggs or not shouldn't really concern anyone other than those in the relationship. This constant comparison and measuring of who is better, or who is nicer or more entitled is a big part of why I have no interest in going to munches and hanging out with other people who share this sexuality choice, or consider themselves as part of 'the scene'. For us it is about how we choose to live our life, how we feel about it for us, and how it affects us and our lives and really isn't anyone else's business, just as their choice is not ours and does not have to affect us...we aren't in a relationship with them. For us, our relationship choice is not about how we measure up against anyone else, or finding like minded people to compare notes with and play with, in fact it wouldn't matter to us if we were the only humans on the planet who lived this way, it is about how we live and find joy in each other, not how others feel about us...and yes, though some might fall over in shock, we also do other things like walking, writing, photography, art, work, reading, crafts, shopping, exercising, family dinners, pampering our pets, and breathing, just not all with whip in hand and clad from head to toe in leather!! Shock horror!!!

 

[Netzach]

Well, here's an analogy, related to the stunt world.

There were a small group of A-list performers who liked to refer to themselves as "truebloods" (long before the TV show). They were consummate professionals who also had fun but where to most the job was the job was the job...they LIVED it. No problem with that, at all. It helped make them who they were. The problem was that they often made it clear that anyone who didn't share their attitude and belief were somehow "less".

I worked and trained my ass off and took my job very seriously while I was doing it. But I never kidded myself that it was anything more than a job.

Been there, looked around, talked to the locals, bought a postcard and left before it killed me.

 

[Netzach]

I agree with you about the moments in real life. Those moments are downright surreal.

I'm talking more about the conversations on the forum, in which I take myself and my circumstances very seriously because I am trying to talk about something I perceive as rocky and unsettling on a good day.

And I will admit, even I think I need to lighten up. It's just a comment on where I think some of the "seriousness" comes from.

I've seen the same in you when certain topics are raised around dominance issues. Sometimes it just feels dangerous not to get serious.

I'm not that frothy in discussions, it's true. I guess to me "serious demeanor" is kind of ingrained like it is for CM and my idea of play extends to a lot of things other people would actually find very dull - I'm cool with that.

But I'm talking about the place that power stuff holds in my life. And I'm comfortable with it being enjoyable for me whether personal or professional. I've kind of trimmed the fat of things that annoy me or tax me and for me, BDSM has to have pleasure. I've had enough of my BDSM fiber and greens and I'm going to live on dessert where this is concerned.

 

[ecstaticsub]

i take my submission seriously. I take my devotion, loyalty and obedience to my dominant seriously.

But we don't take life so seriously. He and I are both very active on Fetlife. We both flirt and tease around and have a good time. We don't go to munches or play parties because our relationship is more personal we don't put it out on display.


I don't care if people want to be bedroom only, or keep it to play parties, or do what ever they want.

But I expect people to let me do my relationship the way I want, also. It does drive me crazy when someone says they are submissive and their actions do not indicate their submission in the least. I keep my month shut and just move on. But when they start making fun of me or harassing me because they think I am too serious when I refuse to act a certain way--that annoys the hell out of me. There are lines I will not cross.

I also get peeved when people start in with the -you met on the internet and you don't into heavy masochistic play so therefor you don't know what true submission really is- I am slowly learning to just ignore people like that

My submission is 24/7. But I've got a busy life-a husband, 3 teenagers, work, elderly parents, a house etc. It is not difficult to do it all.

 

[Keroin]

This thread once again seems to keep going back to a set view of people who are 24/7 in that it is assumed for the most part they look down on others, don't have an ounce of fun to the point of my being questioned about if and how I am playful, and comparisons from those who are not 24/7 where they assume 24/7 means the people involved do not have an interest in anything else in life

Nowhere did I state, nor have I seen it stated here that all 24/7 people look down on others or have not even an ounce of fun. Nowhere.

And Cat, I asked those questions of you as a way of opening up discussion. No other reason. I didn't frame my question as "I believe you have no fun and aren't playful, is this true?". When someone interests me, I like to ask questions and find out more about them, if you interpreted this as some kind of attack, my apologies.

How you choose to live your life is your business and more power to you for choosing a path that fulfills you despite mainstream acceptance. I live my life how I see fit, too. I would put forth the idea that we should both be free to live as we see fit.

But I do observe and have questions based on my observations. Sometimes I put forth those questions here. Sometimes I learn a great deal from the answers I recieve. I find it a worthwhile process.

 

[Keroin]

It does drive me crazy when someone says they are submissive and their actions do not indicate their submission in the least.

See, this is the part I get stuck on. Why does it drive you crazy? How do they affect your life and your relationship with your PYL, which by all indications seem to be flourishing? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious.

I keep my month shut and just move on. But when they start making fun of me or harassing me because they think I am too serious when I refuse to act a certain way--that annoys the hell out of me. There are lines I will not cross.

Does this happen often? Can you give some sort of specific example?

 

[JMohegan]

Nowhere did I state, nor have I seen it stated here that all 24/7 people look down on others or have not even an ounce of fun. Nowhere.

And Cat, I asked those questions of you as a way of opening up discussion. No other reason. I didn't frame my question as "I believe you have no fun and aren't playful, is this true?". When someone interests me, I like to ask questions and find out more about them, if you interpreted this as some kind of attack, my apologies.

How you choose to live your life is your business and more power to you for choosing a path that fulfills you despite mainstream acceptance. I live my life how I see fit, too. I would put forth the idea that we should both be free to live as we see fit.

But I do observe and have questions based on my observations. Sometimes I put forth those questions here. Sometimes I learn a great deal from the answers I recieve. I find it a worthwhile process.

Why not ask if she rakes her own lawn, or if she's worried about the debt situation in Spain?

Keroin, the entire first page of this thread is filled with people making a distinction between taking the BDSM dynamic seriously, and the capacity to have a playful good time.

And then you popped on and explained that you can't do the control thing more extensively, because you want to have a full life!

I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to help you see this from the other side. Catalina is right. This is exactly the flip side of the "oooh, I'm a slave because I love and trust my partner so completely" nonsense.