Seriously

[ecstaticsub]

everyone has different rules. I would never question why someone chooses to do or not do something. If I invited someone to an event (or to the movies or bowling) and they said "No thank you" I would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS inquire why they chose to decline my invite.

And if anyone ever asks me to explain myself if I say I can't do anything...honestly? They are on my list of people.I.don't.want.to.be.around. I'm really fucking weird about being asked why I a not available for something. So that in and of itself would piss me off ;-)

Now, no one has ever said to me directly that I'm not a twoo sub. But there have been plenty of threads on Fetlife (not in Manwhores ROFL) where there have been indirect stabs at those less than true submissives. And the very reason I don't post in the "Submissive Women" forum is because, in my own humble opinion, the frequent posters there have huge sticks up their bums and would suck the fun out of anything.

Which really, is how I interpret this whole thing - that even as fucking awesome as BDSM is, there are tons of wet blankets who can suck the fun out of it fast!

Yeah, which is why I tend to stay spend 90% of my time on Fet in HM. No drama, all fun.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't agree. At least to me being submissive means submitting--as in submitting to the rules set by your PYL. A student can be a student even if they cheat. How can a submissive be a submissive if they don't lie about following rules?

Unless the people you're talking to never submit to their partners at all, then it seems that so long as they are the submissive partner in a D/s relationship, then they are still a submissive. They may well be a dishonest and untrustworthy submissive, but it seems harsh to ban them from the club for even several transgressions.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think it has anything to do with how long anyone has been here, more about reading what is posted...a quick cruise through the discussions will find a multitude of threads, and also comments in other threads, dedicated to questioning those who choose a 24/7 lifestyle over a part- time thing (and not in an exploratory interested knowledge sharing way which is always OK), and declaring how people who claim to live 24/7, TPE are just plain lying as it is not possible. For that matter who says that everyone has to be a fun loving, party animal to be considered OK? Wasn't me, but the discussion seems to keep going back to this idea that 24/7 people don't have fun or laughter in their lives, and as such, this makes them less than OK and fair game...at least this is the way I am feeling it, perhaps because I am tired of going down this track every few months where those who do not choose 24/7, set themselves up as experts and judges on it based on their assumed view, but don't anyone dare challenge it or you are obviously proving them right!!

This thread once again seems to keep going back to a set view of people who are 24/7 in that it is assumed for the most part they look down on others, don't have an ounce of fun to the point of my being questioned about if and how I am playful, and comparisons from those who are not 24/7 where they assume 24/7 means the people involved do not have an interest in anything else in life ....once again, a huge misconception I grew tired of explaining a long time ago, and yes, which has been explained by many more times than I care to count and yet we keep going back to this fantasy porn image.... And this has all been delivered with a sense that it is 24/7 people who are the problem, while those feeling victimised are completely innocent, caring people, and yet we did not start this discussion. Funny thing is, on this forum at least, those who are 24/7, and even more so TPE, are the minority by far, so I am not getting why some of the majority feel so discriminated against when they are the ones posting the most, opening the most threads, and putting across their viewpoints most, and tossing around accusations.

People choose to believe what they want, and they choose to live how they want. Whether someone has fun as understood by Joe Bloggs or not shouldn't really concern anyone other than those in the relationship. This constant comparison and measuring of who is better, or who is nicer or more entitled is a big part of why I have no interest in going to munches and hanging out with other people who share this sexuality choice, or consider themselves as part of 'the scene'. For us it is about how we choose to live our life, how we feel about it for us, and how it affects us and our lives and really isn't anyone else's business, just as their choice is not ours and does not have to affect us...we aren't in a relationship with them. For us, our relationship choice is not about how we measure up against anyone else, or finding like minded people to compare notes with and play with, in fact it wouldn't matter to us if we were the only humans on the planet who lived this way, it is about how we live and find joy in each other, not how others feel about us...and yes, though some might fall over in shock, we also do other things like walking, writing, photography, art, work, reading, crafts, shopping, exercising, family dinners, pampering our pets, and breathing, just not all with whip in hand and clad from head to toe in leather!! Shock horror!!!

This thread aside, I really haven't found that. And I don't have a dog in this fight. My D/s dynamic is perhaps more fluid or easygoing than others here, but it's also 24/7 in the sense that the dynamic is always there. I guess when I think about regular and longtime posters here, it seems to me that they're primarily 24/7.

Why not ask if she rakes her own lawn, or if she's worried about the debt situation in Spain?

Keroin, the entire first page of this thread is filled with people making a distinction between taking the BDSM dynamic seriously, and the capacity to have a playful good time.

And then you popped on and explained that you can't do the control thing more extensively, because you want to have a full life!

I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to help you see this from the other side. Catalina is right. This is exactly the flip side of the "oooh, I'm a slave because I love and trust my partner so completely" nonsense.

Good point, and I agree that this is the flip side.

 

[00Syd]

Unless the people you're talking to never submit to their partners at all, then it seems that so long as they are the submissive partner in a D/s relationship, then they are still a submissive. They may well be a dishonest and untrustworthy submissive, but it seems harsh to ban them from the club for even several transgressions.

Hmm.

A person can be submissive, and still be a dishonest person. Hmm. Yeah. I don't see why not. A person can have the urge to submit, they can have "typical submissive personality traits," and still be dishonest, or be immoral, or whatever. Submission doesn't bestow sainthood upon a person (exaggeration, yeah, duh).

But I guess that depends on your definition of submissive, huh?

ETA: Or like, I guess, maybe it only impacts level of submissiveness when they are dishonest to their dominant? Would it change their submissive-status if they are honest with their dominant, but dishonest with others?

I don't know. IMO, how honest someone is doesn't have much to do with how submissive they are, since what makes someone submissive (IMO) is their relationship dynamic with another.

Ah. Who knows. Whatever.

I should be doing homework right now anyway.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hmm.

A person can be submissive, and still be a dishonest person. Hmm. Yeah. I don't see why not. A person can have the urge to submit, they can have "typical submissive personality traits," and still be dishonest, or be immoral, or whatever. Submission doesn't bestow sainthood upon a person (exaggeration, yeah, duh).

But I guess that depends on your definition of submissive, huh?

Yes it does depend on a definition. I just know that if being anything demanded perfection at that thing, or even at the core of it if not the whole thing, then few of us could ever be anything.

 

[lovebound]

Yes it does depend on a definition. I just know that if being anything demanded perfection at that thing, or even at the core of it if not the whole thing, then few of us could ever be anything.

Being a bad submissive doesn't make one any less of a submissive. Being a bad girl makes me no less of a girl.

But the latter's off topic.

 

[sb2009]

i r doin' it rong.

 

[00Syd]

When someone (who is submissive) does something detestable, I don't say "Wow, what a bad submissive," I say "wow, what a bad person."

*shrug*

 

[lovebound]

When someone (who is submissive) does something detestable, I don't say "Wow, what a bad submissive," I say "wow, what a bad person."

*shrug*

But are they a bad person or are they badly behaved/brought up/conditioned?

New can of worms, comin' up

 

[teknight]

I love how these threads always wind up getting so teknical...but I'm gonna keep the tek outta this one....for now.

 

[00Syd]

I love how these threads always wind up getting so teknical...but I'm gonna keep the tek outta this one....for now.

Ooh so ominous

 

[lovebound]

I love how these threads always wind up getting so teknical...but I'm gonna keep the tek outta this one....for now.

Oh, please don't.

 

[teknight]

Ooh so ominous

Surely you mean o-minus?

Oh, please don't.

I smell the potential for a bribe. What's it worth to you, seriously?

 

[lovebound]

I smell the potential for a bribe. What's it worth to you, seriously?

(Thick Chinese accent)
I give you reaaaal good deal. Very good price!! Nobody else get good deal like this!
(/end accent)

A smile

 

[Stella_Omega]

When someone (who is submissive) does something detestable, I don't say "Wow, what a bad submissive," I say "wow, what a bad person."

*shrug*

ditto.

Or I say; "See? Subs, they're all the same you can't trust a one of them."

never...

But are they a bad person or are they badly behaved/brought up/conditioned?

New can of worms, comin' up

We tend to use "bad person" as a shorthand for "badly brought up/behaved/condtioned."

And speaking as someone who is dealing with a really bad person right now? I have no idea why she's this bad, and I don't care. I just want her rendered harmless as soon and as permanently as possible.

 

[lovebound]

And speaking as someone who is dealing with a really bad person right now? I have no idea why she's this bad, and I don't care. I just want her rendered harmless as soon and as permanently as possible.

sounds just mildly threatening

 

[Stella_Omega]

sounds just mildly threatening

I would think that really bad person might give you the hint that I am responding to a threat.

 

[Keroin]

And speaking as someone who is dealing with a really bad person right now? I have no idea why she's this bad, and I don't care. I just want her rendered harmless as soon and as permanently as possible.

I know a guy who knows a guy...but you never heard that from me.

You don't even know me, got it?

 

[teknight]

I know a guy who knows a guy...but you never heard that from me.

You don't even know me, got it?

Ahh, yes. The Canuck Mafia. They're polite and bilingual.

 

[lovebound]

Ahh, yes. The Canuck Mafia. They're polite and bilingual.

And they always apologize afterwards.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And they always apologize afterwards.

"Have a nice day!"

 

[ecstaticsub]

Unless the people you're talking to never submit to their partners at all, then it seems that so long as they are the submissive partner in a D/s relationship, then they are still a submissive. They may well be a dishonest and untrustworthy submissive, but it seems harsh to ban them from the club for even several transgressions.

I don't expect someone who calls themselves submissive to be perfect. I sure don't consider myself the perfect submissive. But I try. That's the point. It's the people who think calling themselves submissive will get them more dates, or a certain man because they found out he was dominant. But they don't do anything submissive.

I'm not passing judgment on what makes a person worthy to be called submissive, I'm simply trying to explain something that annoys me.

It's not that big of a deal.

 

[rida]

It comes down to: there is the right way to do things and the wrong way to do things.

Now of course everybody believes that their is the right way and the others' are wrong.

And when the others, who believe their way is the right way, criticize somebody else way, somebody that believe his/her way is the right way, that somebody will view the criticism as a confirmation that they are right.

But don't be fooled ... they are all wrong as the only right way is my way .

Now humorous post aside, I noticed that it mostly come down to the fact that it is hard to empathize with ways that we do not understand or that would not fit our personality and life.

One put down too many and we became hypersensitive and see offensive statements were there is none intended.

Personally, I don't care if someone only likes to role-play D/s in the bedroom instead of living it as a calling 24/7 or viceversa. Your life, your choices. But I agree with ecstaticsub that if you call yourself submissive and don't submit (and I think that most of us will agree that willfully lying to your PYL and breaking rules behind his/her back does not constitute submitting), well I think you are not a submissive. Will not stop you from calling yourself such and mostly ignore you. But I will call on your misrepresentation if it is warranted in a discussion I participate.

Then again I have little free time and rarely bother using it for inconsequential matters.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't think it has anything to do with how long anyone has been here, more about reading what is posted...a quick cruise through the discussions will find a multitude of threads, and also comments in other threads, dedicated to questioning those who choose a 24/7 lifestyle over a part- time thing (and not in an exploratory interested knowledge sharing way which is always OK), and declaring how people who claim to live 24/7, TPE are just plain lying as it is not possible.

this most closely echoes my own sentiments on the matter. for almost as long as i've been in the M/s lifestyle at all, there has been no shortage of folks vehemently proclaiming that such a thing can't exist. i have also encountered plenty of folks who look down upon anyone claiming to live M/s or TPE or even a D/s relationship which is not based in kink and roleplay. and because we do actually socialize with others in the community, in our own fairly private way, we've had the unfortunate experience of meeting an individual or a couple for whom M/s really is just a kinky hot roleplay...no issue with that in itself, however the problem comes in when they play the game so well that we can't get a read on them until meeting them in person, when they are shocked and horrified to discover that we weren't playing the game along with them. that for us, this is just who we are, and our everyday reality. and over the years we've learned the reason that many people are not so open or clear about their less "serious" take on M/s, is because they assume that everyone else is coming from the same place.

so it seems that communication issues are the greatest hurdle to understanding and acceptance between the various points of the power exchange spectrum. and like CM, it irks me when people are super loose with terminology, and especially so when they expect everyone else to follow suit.

i definitely do not look down upon anyone, much less someone coming from a different point along the spectrum than myself. it's one reason why when communicating online i try to be careful/honest with my language. i don't claim the label of "BDSM" for instance, not because i find anything less about it, but because i recognize it's a completely different world and perspective. as for bedroom or part-time D/s folks, i see nothing wrong with that either and can certainly understand the appeal there. it's just not the same, and in online discussion especially it can sometimes get confusing as to exactly who's talking about, and from where. so again, just basic communication issues.

and yes, i probably do take certain things a bit more seriously than some. and that can make it a little difficult for me to relate to say those who are playful about the things which i find to be very much not. but i don't think that makes me a stick in the mud or dull, just different. and our differences make the world go round, i just wish we could all learn to communicate with each other a bit better.

 

[YourCaptor]

it irks me when people are super loose with terminology, and especially so when they expect everyone else to follow suit.

I'm pretty loose with terminology. None of it really describes what I'm all about, it only causes me time and trouble when I try to define it. So I just kind of try to hit the ball park, and understand it when others do the same.

I suppose it's the small talk of BDSM.