Sci-Fi/Fantasy Chain Story Idea

[RedHairedandFriendly]

A couple of concerns about this...Does it mean that if someone tries to "wish the gneie free" they would automatically jump?
Also I mentioned in Ch 6 that she doesn't know what would happen if someone tried to wish for something that "unknowingly" would change the course of the future...Wouldn't she have had people try to wish for things that broke the rules before that? If so Laresa should have known what would happen...

You bring up a good point and one that needs to be addressed. She would have made the connection by now, she's not an air head, so suddenly being lifted from her Master/Mistress would be obvious because they asked for something she couldn't give. Perhaps, staying with lieing is the best way, that and it being stolen or taken. . .

Then again the "alter Major historical events" has already been broken (or at elast bent) so it might be something we need to discuss...(Sorry Tsernac, but a lot of the wishes mentioned in passing in Chapter 3 are major history/world altering events)

I guess we have to see Major as Our Major events? Tseranc dealt in the future so what was major we don't know. . .Hmmmm. . . thinking here. . .pardon the smoke.

 

[Tseranc]

mwahaha, the rule breaker is in the house!

Well, when I originally wrote the story (and havign read everythign else so far I'm feeling more and more like the weakest link) I'm not sure the historical events thign was really a firm rule yet, but I'll not rest on such a weak excuse.

Instead I ahve a slightly better one. To him it was not historical. He didn;t wish for napoleon to win, or hitler to never have been born, those would be historical from his perspective. The idea that the future cannot be changed kinda defeats the purpose of a genie, does it not? Your own future is changed and in a great way.

And, thus far I believe that Alex was the most into the future character...so maybe he is the last, or close to it, and Laressa doesnt have much more future beyond her as a genie after him to have effected?

*braces self for the flaming *

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

double post

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

mwahaha, the rule breaker is in the house!

Well, when I originally wrote the story (and havign read everythign else so far I'm feeling more and more like the weakest link)

*SLAP* YOU are not the weakest link. . .We have NONE OF THOSE HERE! *SLAP AGAIN* Grrrrrrrr

I'm not sure the historical events thign was really a firm rule yet, but I'll not rest on such a weak excuse.

Instead I ahve a slightly better one. To him it was not historical. He didn;t wish for napoleon to win, or hitler to never have been born, those would be historical from his perspective. The idea that the future cannot be changed kinda defeats the purpose of a genie, does it not? Your own future is changed and in a great way.

And, thus far I believe that Alex was the most into the future character...so maybe he is the last, or close to it, and Laressa doesnt have much more future beyond her as a genie after him to have effected?

*braces self for the flaming *

I understand what you are saying. For him it was his life and how things played into it. So did he mess with history? I see he created history as all our characters are doing. So from your perspective I can see where he did not break the rules.

 

[deathlynx]

Well, when I originally wrote the story (and havign read everythign else so far I'm feeling more and more like the weakest link) I'm not sure the historical events thign was really a firm rule yet, but I'll not rest on such a weak excuse.

Dun worry...actually when I'd written Chapter 6 I hadn't gotten a chance yet to read yours...So I can completely understand the feeling there...

Instead I ahve a slightly better one.
1) To him it was not historical.
2) And, thus far I believe that Alex was the most into the future character...so maybe he is the last, or close to it, and Laressa doesnt have much more future beyond her as a genie after him to have effected?

*braces self for the flaming *

Not from me certainly...Always willing to discuss/debate historical paradox...

I'm not so sure about #1...After all, how do we deal with somone in Nazi Germany getting a hold of the ring and wishing for Hitler's death...It wouldn't be historical for him/her but we certainly view it as such...As would Laresa since she's been beyond that time...Heavy paradox here...

#2 isn't bad at all...So long as she's not omniscient, she's only limited by how far she's gone into the future...Here's it's a question of her, rather twisty, 4th dimensional progression taking presidence over the more solid one...So long as she doesn't do something to alter her own past (including the major history she's encountered, like America's existance so her master can be President) it's fair game...It's still a little iffy but certainly not out of the question...In fact it ties into #3 a little here but without the question of removing the false wish/disappearance problem...

Of course the third possibility requires us not to have her disappear with a failed wish...The third possibility is the "meant to be" theory...Almost predestination...He was able to wish for the cure for cancer, presidency, etc. because it was going to happen to him...it was the right time...Although I don't come right out and say it in Chapter 6 this is the principal she was suggesting...Either the wish would be granted, or it wouldn't...

Those are my thoughts...

 

[deathlynx]

*SLAP* YOU are not the weakest link. . .We have NONE OF THOSE HERE! *SLAP AGAIN* Grrrrrrrr

Must agree! The creativity you showed with her creation is absolutely wonderful! I scored it high for a reason! No berating yourself! It was early in the series and we were still getting settled...

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

He was able to wish for the cure for cancer...

You scared me... I had to rush to his story and see if he cured cancer... LOL

My chapter says she can't.

Here are the things Teseranc listed. . .

Laresa thought back to the wonders this man had done for her body, and the events he had thanked her for; saving the Red Wood Forest from logging, his election to Governor, providing a functional healthcare system that was later adopted by all 51 states, election to President, ending the war on terror, and now providing food for all the World's people with an international organization that worked.

 

[Guest]

Dun worry...actually when I'd written Chapter 6 I hadn't gotten a chance yet to read yours...So I can completely understand the feeling there...


Not from me certainly...Always willing to discuss/debate historical paradox...

I'm not so sure about #1...After all, how do we deal with somone in Nazi Germany getting a hold of the ring and wishing for Hitler's death...It wouldn't be historical for him/her but we certainly view it as such...As would Laresa since she's been beyond that time...Heavy paradox here...

#2 isn't bad at all...So long as she's not omniscient, she's only limited by how far she's gone into the future...Here's it's a question of her, rather twisty, 4th dimensional progression taking presidence over the more solid one...So long as she doesn't do something to alter her own past (including the major history she's encountered, like America's existance so her master can be President) it's fair game...It's still a little iffy but certainly not out of the question...In fact it ties into #3 a little here but without the question of removing the false wish/disappearance problem...

Of course the third possibility requires us not to have her disappear with a failed wish...The third possibility is the "meant to be" theory...Almost predestination...He was able to wish for the cure for cancer, presidency, etc. because it was going to happen to him...it was the right time...Although I don't come right out and say it in Chapter 6 this is the principal she was suggesting...Either the wish would be granted, or it wouldn't...

Those are my thoughts...

Oh shit, are we getting into fate and karma and stuff?

By the way, I opened up the universe for Laresa stories at the other site I post at so those of you who want can post under your own name. One of my laresa stories there gets about 1500 posts for every chapter I add to it, which means people have that chance to check out your story when they finish mine. It's up to all of you, Red knows the website if you are interested.

 

[Tseranc]

Well, also I think (and i may have been to vauge in y chapter) but he did not just "wish for their to be no more world hunger", but with her help, came up with a plan that worked and was adopted for that problem...and the mirical was all the world leaders agreeing to it....so he basically used her for political gain, with good intentions (making this by far the most mythical of chapters LOL).

Never really just had her snap her fingers to zap a long term event into place, but worked at it in little steps to look natural, and last well past him. And we've already pointed out a great huge grey area in the whole wishign for small stuff that might somehow eventually alter big events.

and he didnt cure cancer i dont think - so everyone can still die of that in the future - so wear your sunblock!!!

 

[Darkniciad]

Time is one piece. Therefore, if Laresa would have tried to assassinate Hitler, it would not work. In the future, pretty much the entire world is affected by Hitler, and that breaks the rules.

Even though it hasn't happened - actually it has. That's the way I look at it. Time is a continuous flow with an ultimate outcome that can't be drastically altered. A ripple can hit it every so often and not break down the natural order, but something like Hitler, or saving the Hindenburgh, or preventing 9/11 just will not work. It would disrupt the entire flow of time and break down all the other natural rules that are attached to it.

That's why Laresa has this rule, and why it is stated the way it is. Famke was never in the dark ages prior to encountering Laresa, but only a single viking directly encountered her there. Thus, only the smallest ripple hits the flow of time. Pretty much every wish granted is a ripple in the flow of time. Laresa only has so much ability to do so, and that is likely the basis for nearly all of her rules. They don't come from some mystical source, they're coming directly from the laws of the universe itself.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

They don't come from some mystical source, they're coming directly from the laws of the universe itself.

My chapter though states that these rules were written down from those long dead to all of us, meaning those that created her.

 

[Darkniciad]

My chapter though states that these rules were written down from those long dead to all of us, meaning those that created her.

But Those beings have obviously written those rules knowing what can and cannot be done. Odds are they've experimented with disasterous results.

I pretty much see the universe taking steps to "eliminate" little problems that can destroy it. Somebody tries to pull something that will alter the flow of time that much, they simply get tossed out of the flow of time and cease to exist. Odds are, that has happened with one of the mythical creators, and they experimented until they found the limits.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

But Those beings have obviously written those rules knowing what can and cannot be done. Odds are they've experimented with disasterous results.

I pretty much see the universe taking steps to "eliminate" little problems that can destroy it. Somebody tries to pull something that will alter the flow of time that much, they simply get tossed out of the flow of time and cease to exist. Odds are, that has happened with one of the mythical creators, and they experimented until they found the limits.

Gottcha. . .

 

[deathlynx]

But Those beings have obviously written those rules knowing what can and cannot be done. Odds are they've experimented with disasterous results.

I pretty much see the universe taking steps to "eliminate" little problems that can destroy it. Somebody tries to pull something that will alter the flow of time that much, they simply get tossed out of the flow of time and cease to exist. Odds are, that has happened with one of the mythical creators, and they experimented until they found the limits.

I'm a little lost here...Are we talking divine beings? If so, then the counter argument is that gods can alter the universe at will...

Either way it could just as easily be that, while sometimes they had disasterous effects (like blowing themselves up) sometimes things just don't work...Sorta like us humans doing the same thing...I'd think if they discovered that they could cease to be then they would stop attempting altogether...

 

[Darkniciad]

I'm not really thinking divine... more along the lines of wizard/scientist/shaman types. They can never fail to keep playing around with the "why" until they know. Even if a few dozen people die horrible tragic deaths in the process.

"We shall remember him and the knowledge he provided.

Clean up in lab 8! Bring lots of mops!"

I personally don't see anything having control of the universe, not even divine beings. I see them as born from the universe, and *SHE* has ultimate control of everything.

I'm a little lost here...Are we talking divine beings? If so, then the counter argument is that gods can alter the universe at will...

Either way it could just as easily be that, while sometimes they had disasterous effects (like blowing themselves up) sometimes things just don't work...Sorta like us humans doing the same thing...I'd think if they discovered that they could cease to be then they would stop attempting altogether...

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

The "people" in Laresa that wrote her rules, were in my thinking as I created Ch. 9, were the ones that "sacrificed" her. Perhaps not the same ones, but those type of folk, the elders, wiseman, yes, shamans, medicine men, whatever you want to call them. Once they learned what actually became of thier people they stopped the practice of sacrifice and began to look for them, trying to find a way to free them, this opened up the group of watchers. . .

 

[deathlynx]

The "people" in Laresa that wrote her rules, were in my thinking as I created Ch. 9, were the ones that "sacrificed" her. Perhaps not the same ones, but those type of folk, the elders, wiseman, yes, shamans, medicine men, whatever you want to call them. Once they learned what actually became of thier people they stopped the practice of sacrifice and began to look for them, trying to find a way to free them, this opened up the group of watchers. . .

Ooooh! Nice transition there! So where are we on the rules and whatnot?

Incidentally it might be interesting to have multiple groups of people creating genies through the same (roughly) means across the world, unknown...and now the watchers (how does "Society of Djiin" sound?) are trying to catalog those as well? The ancient Aztec genies are more agressive because the sacrifices weren't willing? It could add more racial diversity to the genies we will now be coming across, now that we've opened the subject to multiples throughout the world...

Oh, a final question...can one wish to become a genie? I don't remember if this has been asked before...If they can will both imediately shift in time/space?

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Ooooh! Nice transition there! So where are we on the rules and whatnot?

Incidentally it might be interesting to have multiple groups of people creating genies through the same (roughly) means across the world, unknown...and now the watchers (how does "Society of Djiin" sound?) are trying to catalog those as well? The ancient Aztec genies are more agressive because the sacrifices weren't willing? It could add more racial diversity to the genies we will now be coming across, now that we've opened the subject to multiples throughout the world...

Oh, a final question...can one wish to become a genie? I don't remember if this has been asked before...If they can will both imediately shift in time/space?

Society of Djiin sounds fine to me, we are still covering rules as we write stories, but they are updated.

As far as wishing to be a genie. . .I know in 9 - Horace says no more were created. Edited to add. . . but you mean the one about her and the lies. I say the lies is the only way to lose her outside of losing the ring itself as was described before.

I don't think one could wish to be a genie. The sybolicness of it would get lost in my opinion. But again this is up to the group, not just me.

 

[deathlynx]

As far as wishing to be a genie. . .I know in 9 - Horace says no more were created. Edited to add. . . but you mean the one about her and the lies. I say the lies is the only way to lose her outside of losing the ring itself as was described before.

No more were created than what? I think you mentioned something about a master with a hundred genies or some such (too lazy to open the draft and see ), but is he including the Djiin and their method or the potential around the world?

I don't think one could wish to be a genie. The sybolicness of it would get lost in my opinion. But again this is up to the group, not just me.

True, but that could also prove to be a hinderence that leads to character develpement...Think Disney's where Jafar doesn't understand the symbolism and doesn't think of the consequences...Not a big deal to me either way, just a thought that occurred to me that we hadn't dealt with (to my knowledge) that may become more important with a group searching out genies...They'd likely know all the ways genies could/could not be created...

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

No more were created than what? I think you mentioned something about a master with a hundred genies or some such (too lazy to open the draft and see ), but is he including the Djiin and their method or the potential around the world?

What? . . .I don't know. . . I hadn't written a what answer.

True, but that could also prove to be a hinderence that leads to character develpement...Think Disney's where Jafar doesn't understand the symbolism and doesn't think of the consequences...Not a big deal to me either way, just a thought that occurred to me that we hadn't dealt with (to my knowledge) that may become more important with a group searching out genies...They'd likely know all the ways genies could/could not be created...

I thought of Jafar also. . .again, we can leave it up to the group. I'm versitle and can and will write whatever works for everyone.

 

[Darkniciad]

I'd say we should stick to the one group of Djinn, created by the single tribe in Ch. 03 It fits in better with Red's latest chapter and what she brings out IMO.

As to wishing to be a genie, I'd say no meself. While it would provide a good storyline, it would be a one trick pony. We couldn't really do it too many times without it feeling odd, and if we give them that capability, many Masters are probably going to think of it down through the years... It also smacks a bit *too* much of Aladdin to me.

:: Wiping away sweat :: Getting good reactions to Blinding White. Was scared to death trying to follow up Outlaw *laugh*

No more were created than what? I think you mentioned something about a master with a hundred genies or some such (too lazy to open the draft and see ), but is he including the Djiin and their method or the potential around the world?


True, but that could also prove to be a hinderence that leads to character develpement...Think Disney's where Jafar doesn't understand the symbolism and doesn't think of the consequences...Not a big deal to me either way, just a thought that occurred to me that we hadn't dealt with (to my knowledge) that may become more important with a group searching out genies...They'd likely know all the ways genies could/could not be created...

 

[Tseranc]

wow, we get kinda deep in this, almost forgot what forum i was reading - philsophical debate or a genie LOL

Anyway on the issue of time - i find it difficult, and almost depressing to think of time as an inmovable contrct, destined to follow a preset path. Also that would, i think, defeat the idea and grandure that most people have romantisized about genies.

Genies have been passed down, from culture to culture with certain common, reoccuring themes - the bad, evil man having too much power (which means thats power he can actually use and thus be a menacing threat to us all - spooky) and the unlikely hero gaining the power to stop evil. Genie's are power over the previous destiny of your life, no matter what side of good or evil (or what kinda karma you wanna collect) you are.

I personally think the history rule should be applied only to history as is writen from the masters/mistresses point of view. We as writers living in the now can keep our past secure- even write in how laressa 'created' what we now know as the past (an original idea of this chain story if i am not mistaken).

but, thats just me 8^)

 

[deathlynx]

I'd say we should stick to the one group of Djinn, created by the single tribe in Ch. 03 It fits in better with Red's latest chapter and what she brings out IMO.

Works for me...Then again pretty much anything does so long as we're not stepping on our own feet

As to wishing to be a genie, I'd say no meself. While it would provide a good storyline, it would be a one trick pony.

I dunno...like the Watchers (or Horace) even a one time plot point could reappear as a recurring antagonist/protagonist...But at the same time I can understand the potential issues...especially if we start introducing too many subplots later in the series...

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Works for me...Then again pretty much anything does so long as we're not stepping on our own feet

What do you mean by that? Curious not critisizing. . . how would we step on our own feet?

I dunno...like the Watchers (or Horace) even a one time plot point could reappear as a recurring antagonist/protagonist...But at the same time I can understand the potential issues...especially if we start introducing too many subplots later in the series...

I still stand by not wanting them to wish it, but again I want the others opinions too. Everyone is important in this work.

 

[deathlynx]

What do you mean by that? Curious not critisizing. . . how would we step on our own feet?

Things like contradicting something that has previously been written...but I have faith in everyone...we're foing pretty well about keeping consitant...

I still stand by not wanting them to wish it, but again I want the others opinions too. Everyone is important in this work.

I'll abstain from the vote as it doesn't matter much to me either wich way...If forced to vote (go ahead, twist my arm, I go that way sometimes ) I'd probably vote "no wishing"...