Richmond

[Homburg]

Calling me disingenuous and then saying you respect my skills is not "consolation," no.

Insulting me is not something I appreciate, and refusing to back up your assertion is not something I respect.

There are around 150 replies in this thread, and somewhere about 2000 replies in the other thread. I am not interested in parsing 350+ posts to prove an assertion of opinion to you or anyone.

As to my other point, well, we've had this discussion before. No reason to rehash it. If it insults you, I will have to live with that. I'm not going to apologise for calling it how I see it. The ingenuous man avoids straw men, among other things.

Cheers.

 

[Homburg]

But I'm not weird. Lots of people are uncomfortable with displaying a symbol that has some negative association with it without any hint of reflection.

Most people are not introspective enough to reflect on such things.

 

[JMohegan]

There are around 150 replies in this thread, and somewhere about 2000 replies in the other thread. I am not interested in parsing 350+ posts to prove an assertion of opinion to you or anyone.

As to my other point, well, we've had this discussion before. No reason to rehash it. If it insults you, I will have to live with that. I'm not going to apologise for calling it how I see it. The ingenuous man avoids straw men, among other things.

Cheers.

LOL @ this.

Yes, I'm aware that criticizing my posting style is what you do when you disagree with the substance of my remarks.

 

[Homburg]

Yes, I'm aware that criticizing my posting style is what you do when you disagree with the substance of my remarks.

Yep, and you act wounded and insulted at first, then devolve into this. We've played these roles before.

 

[JMohegan]

Yep, and you act wounded and insulted at first, then devolve into this. We've played these roles before.

HAHAHA!

Oh, fuck, Homburg, for god's sake! You can't possibly expect me to take you seriously with this shit.

 

[intothewoods]

I was google searching defense of the confederate flag, and came across this.

 

[WriterDom]

I found this interesting. As founder of the KKK I guess Forrest is a little tainted, but militarily he was a genius.



When the Civil War began, Forrest offered freedom to 44 of his slaves if they would serve with him in the Confederate army. All 44 agreed. One later deserted; the other 43 served faithfully until the end of the war. Although they had many chances to leave, they chose to remain loyal to the South and to Forrest. Part of Forrest's command included his own Escort Company (his "Special Forces"), made up of the very best soldiers available. This unit, which varied in size from 40-90 men, was the elite of the cavalry. Eight of these picked men were black soldiers and all served gallantly and bravely throughout the war. All were armed with at least 2 pistols and a rifle. Most also carried two additional pistols in saddle holsters. At war's end, when Forrest's cavalry surrendered in May 1865, there were 65 black troopers on the muster roll. Of the soldiers who served under him, Forrest said of the black troops: Finer Confederates never fought.

 

[WriterDom]

I was google searching defense of the confederate flag, and came across this.

The flag was a big part of my state flag since before I was conceived. While I was on the side to remove it, how am I supposed to hate something that flew at every school and governmental building almost my entire life?

I've never owned one. Would never display one. My flag is your flag.

 

[Homburg]

HAHAHA!

Oh, fuck, Homburg, for god's sake! You can't possibly expect me to take you seriously with this shit.

That's about half the reason for what I'm saying. I'm tired of the bickering, so why not?

 

[Homburg]

I was google searching defense of the confederate flag, and came across this.

Interesting article. I'd actually heard of that speech before. Stephens was a Georgian, and thus a deep south guy. He was wound up in the causes that motivated the deep south. I think I've mentioned before that there was a conceptual line between the deep south and the border states. That may be "lost cause" influence in my historical study background, not sure. But I've read articles in essays that talked about the difference in motivation, and I want to say that I've mentioned that previously.

I don't hold to the Lost Cause. I think it is romanticised BS. But I also do not hold to the single-issue slavery interpretation either. The clearest source I can offer, and I have no links as I read them in book format, were letters from confederate soldiers (the rare literate enlisted and those from officers) to family and friends, and how they spoke about war. I'm sure they're likely available somewhere on the net. As I'm equally sure searches would produce letters extolling the wonders of slavery and how it needs to be protected.

The primary issue I have with the whole argument is that wars are in no way simple things. You don't send 620,000 men to their deaths for simple reasons. Wars are complex affairs that have multiple smaller reasons. Alexander Stephens, Jefferson Davis, and their planter ilk might have gone to war solely to defend slavery, but Lee and Jackson went to war to defend Virginia, and most of those soldiers on the front lines were there likewise to defend their state, town, and land. This is not "Lost Cause" talking. This is complex realisation that war, much like history, is not a black and white field.

And while I do not disagree with the substance of the article, I also recognise that speeches made in Georgia in the 1860's were different animals from speeches given in Kentucky. No internet back then, no phones. Communication took forever, and a politician could safely make different speeches in different states because he knew that the content of that speech was not terribly likely to make it across the region or country. The fact that Stephens' speech is not more well known speaks to how it was not given in more locations. Or, if you're paranoid, that the "Lost Cause" revisionists hid every other reference to it. *shrug*

Even Forrest was complex, as WD showed. From what I recall, he left the Klan and later denounced them for their violent ways.

At its' core, and this explanation has come up before in these threads, the flag often represents the proud military history and tradition of this region. The South has regional pride, offensive as it may be to some. Every region has its' own version. Here, pride is felt over the military tradition, hospitality and friendliness, beautiful surroundings, food, etc. Other places pride themselves on other things *shrug*

 

[WriterDom]

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/charts/Army-recruits-total-and-per-1000-youth-by-state-2005.html