Question for Dom/Dommes...curious mind wants to know

[tryn2Bgood]

How much value to you place on your pyl's submission to you?

I've read through a lot of threads here that discuss submission in various ways and seen many different views on submission in general...what it means to submit, varying degrees of submission, why someone likes to submit, submission is beautiful, etc.

I've seen a lot of personals looking for a submissive that will hand over control, follow rules obediently, and do x, y, and z as an expectation.

I'm not trying to discuss submission in general. Just wanting to know how valuable that submission is viewed as by the PYL. So, in terms of value, do you think submission is:

Automatic...that's what submissives want to do so it's not a big deal?

Equal to its counterpart...that's the part they're contributing to the relationship?

Expected...just a necessary component in the D/s dynamic, the role they're supposed to fill?

An earned privilege to receive built on trust...a rare gift to be treasured and cherished?

A breaking point...the result of your domination and control?

I'm looking for honest answers from Dom/Dommes, not the typical or correct reply you think you're 'supposed' to give. Don't know how successful this will be...

 

[HisArpy]

To begin with, this is the internet. Most of what you read won't be true. Especially when it comes to porn and BDSM.

Internet personals are no different when it comes to fake. The people who advertise there are, for the most part, just looking for a quick hookup or mindfuck. Or money.

True submission doesn't come from an ad on the internet. It doesn't come from the PYL setting arbitrary rules and terms and conditions. It doesn't come from force or manipulation.

Submission is more than letting someone do things to you mentally or physically or however it looks to an outsider. Submission is done by a specific person with a specific person for a specific set of reasons. What those reasons are depends on the people involved.

I keep saying this but for some reason people miss it when searching for answers into this lifestyle; it's a relationship. It has it's ups and down but it's equal in all things. I give, I get. SHE gives, SHE gets. It's equal. If it's not equal it's abuse. MY relationship looks like yours. Except mine tends to be a bit more demanding at times - from both of us. Trust me, neglecting a submissive partner doesn't mean they just pout and take it. They can make your life hell on earth until you remember your role in the relationship. Keep forgetting and neglecting, and you won't have a relationship because your partner will leave your undeserving ass behind.

It's a "big deal" as you say. Because the trust issue is a major factor. The trust is between THESE people and no others (well sometimes it is but that's a part of the relationship aspect). That the trust exists at all is a gift because it's fragile and needs attention and care.

Anyone who breaks a partner in a relationship, be it alternative or vanilla, is an asshole. Sometimes it happens accidentally and things either get patched up or they don't. But, if someone does it intentionally, that's wrong regardless of the type of relationship.

Last, BDSM or submission isn't THE relationship. It's only a part. How big a part depends on the people involved but the relationship is where it's at. Without the relationship aspect, you don't have anything. Period.

 

[ejredlady]

To begin with, this is the internet. Most of what you read won't be true. Especially when it comes to porn and BDSM.

Internet personals are no different when it comes to fake. The people who advertise there are, for the most part, just looking for a quick hookup or mindfuck. Or money.

True submission doesn't come from an ad on the internet. It doesn't come from the PYL setting arbitrary rules and terms and conditions. It doesn't come from force or manipulation.

Submission is more than letting someone do things to you mentally or physically or however it looks to an outsider. Submission is done by a specific person with a specific person for a specific set of reasons. What those reasons are depends on the people involved.

I keep saying this but for some reason people miss it when searching for answers into this lifestyle; it's a relationship. It has it's ups and down but it's equal in all things. I give, I get. SHE gives, SHE gets. It's equal. If it's not equal it's abuse. MY relationship looks like yours. Except mine tends to be a bit more demanding at times - from both of us. Trust me, neglecting a submissive partner doesn't mean they just pout and take it. They can make your life hell on earth until you remember your role in the relationship. Keep forgetting and neglecting, and you won't have a relationship because your partner will leave your undeserving ass behind.

It's a "big deal" as you say. Because the trust issue is a major factor. The trust is between THESE people and no others (well sometimes it is but that's a part of the relationship aspect). That the trust exists at all is a gift because it's fragile and needs attention and care.

Anyone who breaks a partner in a relationship, be it alternative or vanilla, is an asshole. Sometimes it happens accidentally and things either get patched up or they don't. But, if someone does it intentionally, that's wrong regardless of the type of relationship.

Last, BDSM or submission isn't THE relationship. It's only a part. How big a part depends on the people involved but the relationship is where it's at. Without the relationship aspect, you don't have anything. Period.

I think you're spot on!

 

[SalvDali]

Hisarpy hits the nail on the head.

D/s was something I always craved but never had a name for the feelings or desires until recently. I have been with my wife since 1998. D/s for less than a year. It is not something I ever expect but something I feel like I earn. She trusts me enough to give me control. She knows I don't just think about me and that I will always try to make decisions that are best for us.

As far as value. It means everything to me. She means everything to me. It's like proposing and being told yes. The connection we made when we found our place in D/s is unreal. For both of us it was like something was always missing but you couldn't place your finger on it until we found it.

Several months ago I was having a time accepting this was really what she wanted. Partly because I had found something that made me so happy I feared losing it . Like she had read my mind one night. Her head was on my chest and she looked up at me " This is us now right? Are you as happy as I am?" I felt like we fell in love all over again. Her submission is HER. She is my world and means everything to me.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

To begin with, this is the internet. Most of what you read won't be true. Especially when it comes to porn and BDSM.

Internet personals are no different when it comes to fake. The people who advertise there are, for the most part, just looking for a quick hookup or mindfuck. Or money.

True submission doesn't come from an ad on the internet. It doesn't come from the PYL setting arbitrary rules and terms and conditions. It doesn't come from force or manipulation.

Submission is more than letting someone do things to you mentally or physically or however it looks to an outsider. Submission is done by a specific person with a specific person for a specific set of reasons. What those reasons are depends on the people involved.

I keep saying this but for some reason people miss it when searching for answers into this lifestyle; it's a relationship. It has it's ups and down but it's equal in all things. I give, I get. SHE gives, SHE gets. It's equal. If it's not equal it's abuse. MY relationship looks like yours. Except mine tends to be a bit more demanding at times - from both of us. Trust me, neglecting a submissive partner doesn't mean they just pout and take it. They can make your life hell on earth until you remember your role in the relationship. Keep forgetting and neglecting, and you won't have a relationship because your partner will leave your undeserving ass behind.

It's a "big deal" as you say. Because the trust issue is a major factor. The trust is between THESE people and no others (well sometimes it is but that's a part of the relationship aspect). That the trust exists at all is a gift because it's fragile and needs attention and care.

Anyone who breaks a partner in a relationship, be it alternative or vanilla, is an asshole. Sometimes it happens accidentally and things either get patched up or they don't. But, if someone does it intentionally, that's wrong regardless of the type of relationship.

Last, BDSM or submission isn't THE relationship. It's only a part. How big a part depends on the people involved but the relationship is where it's at. Without the relationship aspect, you don't have anything. Period.

Okay. First of all, that is the answer I was expecting to get. The kind someone might be proud to shout from a rooftop. Secondly, I didn't want to discuss D/s in general, nor am I trying to understand the BDSM lifestyle. I just wanted honest answers to a specific question.

I've heard all of the views I gave as an example expressed by different people. There is no right or wrong answer...just interested in what response a Dom/Domme would give if asked. I assume the part I bolded was your answer to the question.

Just to comment on the rest of your post - online personals 'might' be frauds or out for a quick thrill. They also 'might' be a way to meet other people with similar interests.

"True submission doesn't come from an ad on the internet" - that's debatable.

"Submission is done by a specific person with a specific person for a specific set of reasons." - the 'specific' in that statement can be pretty inclusive. Anyone could be that person with another person for any number of reasons..."depending on the people involved."

Of course D/s is a relationship. There are a million different kinds of relationships, BDSM or otherwise. That doesn't mean it has to be a serious, long term, or even primary relationship. I agree that trust is important.

I could also argue that some people 'want' to be forced to submit...

I don't want to get into what is or isn't a 'real' submissive or a 'true' Dom. That's another discussion entirely. Whether someone is a strict, gentle, daddy, good, bad, part-time, or online Dom isn't the issue. And not all Doms have the same motivations, or views of submission, as everyone else. That's the purpose of my question...to get different views. I do appreciate your view as much as any others. Thanks!

 

[tryn2Bgood]

As far as value. It means everything to me. She means everything to me. It's like proposing and being told yes.

*****

Her submission is HER. She is my world and means everything to me.

Your response sounded entirely genuine to me. The part I quoted was an awesome answer. And I'm glad you found such happiness in your lives together!

 

[dawn_of_night]

Yes. This is a totally agreeable concept.
Proposing to her or him... And getting a yes...
It's a light in a dark room.
It's air when I can't breathe.
It's the pi of my circle.... So yea. Very well said.

 

[HisArpy]

Okay. First of all, that is the answer I was expecting to get. The kind someone might be proud to shout from a rooftop. Secondly, I didn't want to discuss D/s in general, nor am I trying to understand the BDSM lifestyle. I just wanted honest answers to a specific question.

I've heard all of the views I gave as an example expressed by different people. There is no right or wrong answer...just interested in what response a Dom/Domme would give if asked. I assume the part I bolded was your answer to the question.

Just to comment on the rest of your post - online personals 'might' be frauds or out for a quick thrill. They also 'might' be a way to meet other people with similar interests.

"True submission doesn't come from an ad on the internet" - that's debatable.

"Submission is done by a specific person with a specific person for a specific set of reasons." - the 'specific' in that statement can be pretty inclusive. Anyone could be that person with another person for any number of reasons..."depending on the people involved."

Of course D/s is a relationship. There are a million different kinds of relationships, BDSM or otherwise. That doesn't mean it has to be a serious, long term, or even primary relationship. I agree that trust is important.

I could also argue that some people 'want' to be forced to submit...

I don't want to get into what is or isn't a 'real' submissive or a 'true' Dom. That's another discussion entirely. Whether someone is a strict, gentle, daddy, good, bad, part-time, or online Dom isn't the issue. And not all Doms have the same motivations, or views of submission, as everyone else. That's the purpose of my question...to get different views. I do appreciate your view as much as any others. Thanks!

Parsing it down to various sentences doesn't help. The relationship dynamic is different for everyone so all we can speak to are generalities. However, there are some hard limits everyone has to respect.

Force is ILLEGAL. Consent to be used is not force. It is not illegal to consent to rough treatment or what appears to be force from the outside looking in. However, for one person to do that to another without consent is force. See above for how that is viewed by society.

Abuse is wrong. Dominance is not abuse. It is an assertion of will, usually over one who submits to it. Notice I said will, not force or control.

I believe, at the basic level, all dominants view the world the same way. Some have stronger motivational energies, but all dominants want to be on top of the heap. We are the same. How we achieve our goals might be different, but we are the same.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Parsing it down to various sentences doesn't help. The relationship dynamic is different for everyone so all we can speak to are generalities. However, there are some hard limits everyone has to respect.

Force is ILLEGAL. Consent to be used is not force. It is not illegal to consent to rough treatment or what appears to be force from the outside looking in. However, for one person to do that to another without consent is force. See above for how that is viewed by society.

Abuse is wrong. Dominance is not abuse. It is an assertion of will, usually over one who submits to it. Notice I said will, not force or control.

I believe, at the basic level, all dominants view the world the same way. Some have stronger motivational energies, but all dominants want to be on top of the heap. We are the same. How we achieve our goals might be different, but we are the same.

Clearly I did not do a good job explaining myself. Maybe I should have said 'consentual force'...I would never condone rape or abuse. But there is a difference in freely submitting to someone and being forced to submit...consentually. For some people that's what works for them. Obviously you would not be the type of Dom to find yourself in that type of relationship. But it does exist. And it's not abusive or illegal. And it doesn't make that Dom an asshole.

I did not know that all dominants view the world the same way. I do know that all submissives don't view the world the same way. I guess submission is just much more complex than dominance. Apologies if I offended you with my lack of knowledge.

 

[HisArpy]

Clearly I did not do a good job explaining myself. Maybe I should have said 'consentual force'...I would never condone rape or abuse. But there is a difference in freely submitting to someone and being forced to submit...consentually. For some people that's what works for them. Obviously you would not be the type of Dom to find yourself in that type of relationship. But it does exist. And it's not abusive or illegal. And it doesn't make that Dom an asshole.

I did not know that all dominants view the world the same way. I do know that all submissives don't view the world the same way. I guess submission is just much more complex than dominance. Apologies if I offended you with my lack of knowledge.

Here's the thing. You came to ask a question. You got answers, Yet now you are trying to tell us what our relationships consist of and what the parameters are while professing to not know anything,

Away with you.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Here's the thing. You came to ask a question. You got answers, Yet now you are trying to tell us what our relationships consist of and what the parameters are while professing to not know anything,

Away with you.

No, I am absolutely not trying to tell 'anyone' what their relationship should consist of, or the parameters. To be honest, that's what I felt you were doing in your original post. (Kind of a 'this is how it works' attitude - with no room for variation. You subsequently did state "We are all the same" in regards to dominants, but maybe i misunderstood.) I was simply trying to point out that there are MANY different types of relationships, even within D/s. My opinion is that none of them are the exactly the same.

I also said I did appreciate you sharing your view...I wasn't being sarcastic. That I don't completely agree with everything you said doesn't mean I was challenging your view...just expressing a different one.

The question asked was meant to provoke some thought, not start a debate. If you ask a submissive "why do you like submitting?", some of them can't answer that...they don't know 'why', they just know that they do. Or they can't find words to describe it. Others can tell you exactly why. It's harder to describe because it revolves around feelings.

The question posed to Doms/Dommes isn't really a simple one. Sure, there are cookie cutter answers, but if you go deeper there should be a more individualized response. It doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. Why would it? Maybe some dominants never really thought about the value of their sub's submission. Maybe it is sort of expected with the dynamic they've created. Maybe it's taken for granted in the whole scheme of things, even unintentionally. Or it just became the status quo. Maybe it's wondrous, amazing - treasured every single time. And maybe it takes "making your life a living hell", as you said, to be reminded of that value before they "leave your undeserving ass".

Yes, it is a relationship, but I think the one thing that remains a constant between the different types of relationships is the importance and ability to trust each other. (Of course there are limits. Of course they shouldn't be crossed. Communication is good. Know your partner well. Respect each other - those are more like instructions. You can't tell someone what to like or how to feel, which is the individual type of answer I was looking for.)

Regardless, maybe the question is too difficult to answer. I did say I wasn't sure how successful the results would be...

 

[extreme_hetro_sex]

For me, domination is like an urge. It’s like a thirst that should be satisfied. I think some Subs also have a similar urge. They want to submit without any explanation or reason. We are all mentally different. Our thought process are different too so you can’t explain someone’s behavior. I don’t think you can categorize everything. Nature doesn’t work that way. Everything is not black or white. There are also various shades of black and white.

 

[MeekMe]

I'm not a dom, but if I was I would hold submission at high value and expect it. By expect I mean that if someone were to want a d/s relationship with me, submitting would have to happen. I'm far too lazy to make someone submit and also if they didn't want to submit, why the fuck did they agree to do it? I expect people to follow through with what they say they will do and that includes submission. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[dawn_of_night]

This is rather off topic but don't you feel that goes the other way also? Because as a s-type don't you also expect the D-type that requested your submission to step up and follow thru and do as promised?
I guess what I'm really saying is i agree.
As a switch, I value your dominance/submission to me... just as much as I would hope you value my submission/Dominance to you.

 

[MeekMe]

This is rather off topic but don't you feel that goes the other way also? Because as a s-type don't you also expect the D-type that requested your submission to step up and follow thru and do as promised?
I guess what I'm really saying is i agree.
As a switch, I value your dominance/submission to me... just as much as I would hope you value my submission/Dominance to you.

I expect everyone to follow through with their agreements regardless of label. This goes for myself as well. I try not to enter into agreements I don't feel confident I can fulfill.

 

[dawn_of_night]

If only everyone had the same mindset.

Thanks for sharing

 

[Iamsubmissive]

I'll jump in to post an answer for a Dom friend of mine...he doesn't have a Lit account. I've seen him treat some girlfriends/subs with reverence and others with a more casual respect. So I asked him about the value thing. He said it depends on the sub...he values their submission depending on how much they value it themselves. If it's a girl who would willingly submit to anyone, then it's not a very 'treasured' thing. If it's something special that he's earned, then it's worth a lot more. Might not be the 'popular' answer, but it does make sense I guess. I'd also like to add that he's a really great guy...appreciates life and treats all women with great respect, so it's not like he's an asshole or anything...

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to answer. Glad to get a few opinions. Thanks!

 

[Nezhul]

Automatic...that's what submissives want to do so it's not a big deal?

Equal to its counterpart...that's the part they're contributing to the relationship?

An earned privilege to receive built on trust...a rare gift to be treasured and cherished?

I'd say these three, to varying degrees.

Naturally, no one will submit to me just because I exist - I need to be able to offer something to her that will make her want to play this game to me.

It's also automatic to a point with most submissives. Sure, I guess there are those who do it just because their partner wants it. But most submissives, I feel, are actually seeking to submit, so it's their own desire that would drive them to try and submit on their own, even with a non-dominant partner.

And lastly it's definitely a way to contribute to the relationship. There's no way around it.

Now...
How important it is for me in general? It is a great gift to have, that's what I'll say. If someone wants to submit to you it says many things and opens many doors.
I want my partner to be submissive. That's how I'm wired. But I would say that I have a really low satisfaction threshold on this front.
What I mean is that I don't dream of a 24/7 submission with complete obedience. For me, casual submission that happens in bedroom is quite enough. Everything above that comes as a bonus, a jackpot for me - I would absolutely LOVE to have a master-slave relationship where I can call all the shots and she accepts it all without question, where I could punish her for any mistakes and train her to be better. I'd love that. I'd treasure that. But it's not necessary for me to be happy.

 

[Primalex]

How much value to you place on your pyl's submission to you?

This is a fairly difficult question to answer, if you want to read more than truism.

 

[tryn2Bgood]

Now...
How important it is for me in general? It is a great gift to have, that's what I'll say. If someone wants to submit to you it says many things and opens many doors.
I want my partner to be submissive. That's how I'm wired. But I would say that I have a really low satisfaction threshold on this front.
What I mean is that I don't dream of a 24/7 submission with complete obedience. For me, casual submission that happens in bedroom is quite enough. Everything above that comes as a bonus, a jackpot for me - I would absolutely LOVE to have a master-slave relationship where I can call all the shots and she accepts it all without question, where I could punish her for any mistakes and train her to be better. I'd love that. I'd treasure that. But it's not necessary for me to be happy.

That was a good answer. And I like how you list the things you would LOVE but with a 'take what I can get' attitude. It's...realistic, I guess would be a good description. Thanks for the input!

 

[tryn2Bgood]

This is a fairly difficult question to answer, if you want to read more than truism.

Yes, but that's kind of why my expectations were fairly low in regards to the responses I might get...too much trouble to explain more than the obvious. It's okay though...I'd rather hear 'no comment' than a thoughtless one.