Presented the opportunity....

[Netzach]

I have never been raped or seen rape. My guess would be that watching it in a movie is different from watching something real. I don't know if I would be turned on at some level or not. I will say that I have an issue (generally, not referring to this thread) with people who do not have healthy boundaries between fantasy and reality, so I can see that if that line were blurred, that might turn me off more than the images turn me on. So I guess my point is that even if rape in the abstract turns you on, plenty of other things can turn you off even moreso without it even being a matter of political correctness or whatever. Possibly an instinct for self-preservation or something.

This is a stellar point. People are turned on or off by the most random things at times - some people can't get into it if she's got on the wrong color stockings or if his dick is a certain shape, let alone the presence of rape verite and criminal activity - I can't fully explain WHY the same things that turn on other people turn me off and vice versa, no matter what we're talking about.

 

[eastern sun]

But you see, I was not talking about the reasons why you might want to watch such video, I was commenting on people that have blurred boundaries between fantasy and reality.

Then I misunderstood your original post. I thought that both you and Aquila were saying that anyone (which includes me) who might want to watch a video of an actual rape was blurring the boundaries between reality and fantasy.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I might not like whatever turns you on, I might find it scary or sick or disgusting; and its my right to do so. I am not publicly judging you for it though, I was trying to define what kind of person may be the one that doesnt have clear idea about difference between fantasy and reality. In my opinion.

this reality v. fantasy tangent is confusing to me. i thought this discussion was about the reality of rape, not some fantasy ideal of it. i do not understand play "rape," or those who are aroused by such, any more than i understand those who wish to beat or be beaten only because they and their partner find it sexually arousing. call me a buzzkill, but i just do not grok the need for the fun and games tinge to everything.

the very idea of watching a "simulated" or play "rape" scene gets me yawning. i would find it ridiculous, silly, juvenile, stupid. it is the reality of someone truly being violated, degraded, spirit-crushed that i would wish to see.

 

[eastern sun]

it is the reality of someone truly being violated, degraded, spirit-crushed that i would wish to see.

And it's the fear and need to survive (or not) that catches me.

 

[ownedsubgal]

And it's the fear and need to survive (or not) that catches me.

yes, that too. the moment of surrender, of giving up and letting go, accepting one's cruel fate...that is the sweet spot to my dark/cold side.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Real rape? No, no interest in seeing it, and don't even get me started on how I feel about those who commit it and think it is cool or fun. F, for all his seriously sadistic tendencies, and ability to switch off his feelings in many situations, is also not in the least turned on by it, quite the opposite and very stubborn about even considering the idea. One thing I have found with growing older is that there are things which could be tolerated before, even if not supported or agreed with, which now have a definite switch off button, and at times can bring out a reaction like waving a red flag to a bull. I do think perhaps it might serve to change some peoples thoughts about wanting to watch it, and even contemplating enjoying it, if they themselves (or someone close to them) were raped. As some have pointed out, fantasy and consent are far different animals to non-consensual rape, either by a stranger or someone you know....it would be so nice if the legal system, especially lawyers and courts, began to appreciate this fact of life before fucking over survivors of rape time after time.

Catalina

 

[StrayKat]

And it's the fear and need to survive (or not) that catches me.

Now I dont want to get into another misunderstanding, but is it seeing somebody else struggle for their life something that excites you?
May I ask, out of curiosity, did you ever experience something like that personally? Or on wider range, around you, war from first hand for example?

 

[eastern sun]

Now I dont want to get into another misunderstanding, but is it seeing somebody else struggle for their life something that excites you?
May I ask, out of curiosity, did you ever experience something like that personally? Or on wider range, around you, war from first hand for example?

Yes. Yes. No, I have never been in the middle of a war, nor would I like to be.


edited to add: Please do not take this any further, StrayKat. If you don't want to believe me, then just let it go.

 

[Netzach]

If sexuality was something I got to pick and choose along the lines of political correctness and political affiliation I'd probably never fuck anyone again, because most people do not pass my purity tests, eventually. If you're a woman who's letting some guy ball her, politically I'd ask you if you have a freaking death wish. Then I'd return to the real world in which most people are turned on by things and people which aren't always great for them and we all deal.

When I'm fucking I'm not weighing every fuck against how it looks or feels to every woman who's ever been raped, every man who was ever beaten up by his parents for real with a belt, I'm gratifying the impulses of my sexual attraction - if you want to bring that kind of scrutiny, then bring it to the WHOLE scene.

And FWIW, my mommy hit me, we had no money, my only male role model was an alkie, I don't think he touched me, and I've never been shot at, merely held up with a knife. Do I still get to play? Have I won the right to enjoy my own cardboard stupid cutout versions of REALVIOLENCEtm? If you're on a comp and you're not living in a detention camp in Darfur we all have it pretty bougie western good.

 

[00Syd]

it is the reality of someone truly being violated, degraded, spirit-crushed that i would wish to see.

That's hot.

 

[StrayKat]

Yes. Yes. No, I have never been in the middle of a war, nor would I like to be.


edited to add: Please do not take this any further, StrayKat. If you don't want to believe me, then just let it go.

Nah, dont worry, I have no interest to take it any further. I wasnt doubting you in any way, sorry if you got such impression. I was just trying to compare experiences and I needed a bit more info for that. I dont want to talk about yours or mine any further either.
Thank you for answering.

 

[StrayKat]

Do I still get to play? Have I won the right to enjoy my own cardboard stupid cutout versions of REALVIOLENCEtm? If you're on a comp and you're not living in a detention camp in Darfur we all have it pretty bougie western good.

Just fyi I have been living in "western" part of the world last 8 years. In what circumstances I lived those 38 before that I am not going to discuss here, just take my word that some of them were a lot different from what average western people experience in life.
Maybe I dont need my *cardboard stupid cutout versions of REALVIOLENCEtm* because I damn well know what real violence is and I dont want to "play" it ever again. Your mileage may vary of course.

 

[MisterSir]

Not to be all "rah rah rah look at my omniscient morality license rabble rabble", but the idea that so many people would watch the hypothetical video (or even just not opposed to it) is quite concerning. OSG gets a pass on this because her sexual identity is not what many of us would call "normal" - not that that is a bad thing or that I am complaining about it or that I think I'm better or any of that bollocks - but that the rest of you don't have a problem with watching an actual rape occurring is, as I said, quite concerning.

Now commence the flames at my expense. If anybody wants some actual discussion, I'm here, but I expect at least enough to toast marshmallows on.

 

[intothewoods]

Not to be all "rah rah rah look at my omniscient morality license rabble rabble", but the idea that so many people would watch the hypothetical video (or even just not opposed to it) is quite concerning. OSG gets a pass on this because her sexual identity is not what many of us would call "normal" - not that that is a bad thing or that I am complaining about it or that I think I'm better or any of that bollocks - but that the rest of you don't have a problem with watching an actual rape occurring is, as I said, quite concerning.

Now commence the flames at my expense. If anybody wants some actual discussion, I'm here, but I expect at least enough to toast marshmallows on.

Who said they don't have a problem with watching an actual rape occurring? I don't think anyone said that exactly. Most, if not all, who said they would watch it (it being a video, and not anything anyone could stop, btw) said they would feel guilty about it.

 

[MisterSir]

Who said they don't have a problem with watching an actual rape occurring? I don't think anyone said that exactly. Most, if not all, who said they would watch it (it being a video, and not anything anyone could stop, btw) said they would feel guilty about it.

Point 1 - semantics. Like everybody else, I was talking about watching a video of the rape, not being there in person.
Point 2 - regardless of how guilty you felt afterward, you've still been given the opportunity to watch a woman be raped and accepted. That alone is what freaks me out a little.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Not to be all "rah rah rah look at my omniscient morality license rabble rabble", but the idea that so many people would watch the hypothetical video (or even just not opposed to it) is quite concerning. OSG gets a pass on this because her sexual identity is not what many of us would call "normal"

why is my "sexual identity" any more abnormal than that of anyone else here?

 

[MisterSir]

Because it's a long way from what I consider "normal" and my guess is the same applies to others. Note please that the next words following that were "not that that is a bad thing", but a mentality in which the concept of refusing sexual advances isn't foreign but doesn't exist is not exactly the most common thing in the world (note I'm going off something I remember reading from here in relation to you. If that's not that case, my bad. Also "identity" was a bad word to use, again).

 

[Primalex]

Not to be all "rah rah rah look at my omniscient morality license rabble rabble", but the idea that so many people would watch the hypothetical video (or even just not opposed to it) is quite concerning. OSG gets a pass on this because her sexual identity is not what many of us would call "normal" - not that that is a bad thing or that I am complaining about it or that I think I'm better or any of that bollocks - but that the rest of you don't have a problem with watching an actual rape occurring is, as I said, quite concerning.

I don't mind the point of view that people who would watch this should be <whatever>, but your reasoning here is funny.

"Because osg is a sick perv, it's okay that she behaves like one. But that the rest here behaves like a sick perv, is concerning."

Rephrased:
It's okay when a male rapist rapes a woman, after all he is a rapist, but it's totally wrong when a guy rapes a woman.

 

[Primalex]

why is my "sexual identity" any more abnormal than that of anyone else here?

*comforts* You are the queen of the pervs, didn't you know?

 

[eastern sun]

Not to be all "rah rah rah look at my omniscient morality license rabble rabble", but the idea that so many people would watch the hypothetical video (or even just not opposed to it) is quite concerning. OSG gets a pass on this because her sexual identity is not what many of us would call "normal" - not that that is a bad thing or that I am complaining about it or that I think I'm better or any of that bollocks - but that the rest of you don't have a problem with watching an actual rape occurring is, as I said, quite concerning.

Now commence the flames at my expense. If anybody wants some actual discussion, I'm here, but I expect at least enough to toast marshmallows on.

The original question was "would you want to watch a video of an actual rape?" Wanting to watch a video does not necessarily mean watching a video.

(I also don't understand the logic behind singling osg out for a pass.)

 

[MisterSir]

I really should have kept my mouth shut, shouldn't I? I apologise, no offense was meant to anybody. I'm just going to leave now before I dig right through to the centre of the Earth.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't mind the point of view that people who would watch this should be <whatever>, but your reasoning here is funny.

"Because osg is a sick perv, it's okay that she behaves like one. But that the rest here behaves like a sick perv, is concerning."

Rephrased:
It's okay when a male rapist rapes a woman, after all he is a rapist, but it's totally wrong when a guy rapes a woman.

Exactly.

Point 1 - semantics. Like everybody else, I was talking about watching a video of the rape, not being there in person.
Point 2 - regardless of how guilty you felt afterward, you've still been given the opportunity to watch a woman be raped and accepted. That alone is what freaks me out a little.

Ok. Of the things that bother me in this world, a person deciding to watch a video of a terrible act is not that high on the list. To each his own. Given how many people are attracted to salacious everything, I have a hard time being that troubled by most people who have posted here.

 

[intothewoods]

why is my "sexual identity" any more abnormal than that of anyone else here?

Would you prefer life choices? Circumstances? Regardless, if wanting to watch a rape video is morally repugnant, then I don't see how it matters.

 

[ImOnIt]

Im pretty sure that MrSir. was implying that he was uneasy about people with 'standard' arousal triggers watching a rape video. " I ... am concerned about people watching an actual rape occuring... but perhaps it is more complicated".

Here meaning, observing a recording of an actual rape.

Here we have a big moral grey area about observing evidence of things that have occured that are distasteful - ie. camera footage of carcrash, accident, injury, suicide, rape, etc.

The standard reaction is ingrained strongly, and discussion of complicated topics like this take a measure of good faith and patience.


EDIT for lateness.

 

[Netzach]

Just fyi I have been living in "western" part of the world last 8 years. In what circumstances I lived those 38 before that I am not going to discuss here, just take my word that some of them were a lot different from what average western people experience in life.
Maybe I dont need my *cardboard stupid cutout versions of REALVIOLENCEtm* because I damn well know what real violence is and I dont want to "play" it ever again. Your mileage may vary of course.

I have no doubt about your experiences and the awfulness thereof, but then what brings you to SM? You're telling me you don't want to "play" violence, but as far as I'm concerned if you're putting up a cute whip weilding pixie and talking about the desire to dominate other women, you are in the club.

I'm asking this in earnest. If you have NO interest in anything which is redolent of violence or power imbalance because you've been there, done that, why go there at all?

Or are you like the rest of everyone else and you can't decide what makes you hot based on what's politically dear to you? In a way it's far more perverse for people who have been heavily oppressed in some fashion to want to re-enact any level of it, than it is for the comfortably unaware to dabble. You want to chide people for knowing better it seems, wouldn't you most of all?

The last time I had this conversation it was with a Women's studies prof who at least professed no personal interest in SM. Not someone who does some SM but then critiques the sexual impulses of others who are bent, because they're more bent.