Polyamory

[graceanne]

*hugs for bunny and syd*

i don't have a lot of words of wisdom other than if you're hearing something in your head stop a minute to listen and figure out who the voice sounds like. chances are it will, literally, sound like someone else (like your mom, mother in law, sister, sister in law, dad, etc)

 

[Homburg]

Now, I'm not sure if this has been covered in this thread already (and I'm too impatient to read the whole thing and find out), but I just wanted to get all of your opinions on relationships where one member is polyamorous and the other is monogamous. Recipe for eventual disaster? Think it can work? Long term? Short term? Any and all thoughts on the subject are welcome and appreciated.

It depends. And, yeah, I know, that's always the answer.

It depends on how serious mono the mono person is and how seriously poly the poly person is. If the mono person is okay with the poly person having other stuff going on, but not having anything else going on themselves, no sweat. If the poly person is cool with keeping things exclusive out of respect for the mono partner, no sweat.

But if poly is hard-wired core to the poly partner's sexuality and existence, and the mono person simply cannot in any way deal, there is trouble ahead.

In my own situation, neither viv nor MIS are particularly poly. What makes it work is neither are 100% gotta-be mono. It also helps that they are honestly really good friends too. In our case, the working model is "polyfidelitous triad", meaning there's three of us here, and that's it.

 

[Homburg]

You're right; it's not that I want to go shout from the rooftops that I'm kinky and poly and oh-God-look-how-cool-I-am.

I'm really envious of you, H. I wish my triad could be like yours. I just don't see it happening. I will always have to live separate from them. It'll always be visits here, even though it's hard to "visit" a place that feels like home.

Change your perspective. You aren't visiting. You're coming home. Your apartment is what you visit. Home really is where the heart is.

I don't want to parade around and draw attention to myself. I just want this to be my life and fuck everyone else if they don't like it. I don't want to be the awkward single person who spends every holiday alone. I want to be able to go places with my owner people and not have to hold back. I don't mean I want them to lead me around on a leash or be able to obviously kiss and grope them in public. That's not my style. It's just...hell, I'm afraid to even meet their friends because I am afraid I will embarrass them by the fact that it's obvious when I look at them that I think the sun rises and sets in them.

Wait, you don't want a husband and kids, but you don't want to be the single person? Erm, cognitive dissonance. If your life is where you want it to be, what do the holidays matter? And insofar as friends are concerned, it would depend. Your friends are cool with your choices. Do they have friends that are cool with their choices? If so, those are the friends to hang out with. And when you do, you are adult, professional, educated BB.

Compartmentalisation.

There is no situation in public where you will be able to act exactly how you wish. The core of the Social Contract is that you give up certain freedoms to enjoy the benefits of living in society at large. So you can't just run around naked at McDonalds becuase society isn't cool with that. Well, you apply that in levels to the rest of your existence as well.

And my family? Well, that's a hopeless cause right there. I can't even introduce them to my family as friends because my mom knows Master from another time and hates him.

*shrug* Family is weird. I am taking the long view with mine. Eventually, this will just be how things are. They'll get used to it.

I don't want to be that obnoxious, in-your-face person. I just want to not have to hide myself away like the madwoman in the attic all the time.

Meh. You can walk out on the street with no problem. You can hang out with them in public. You just have to put on your public face like you dod everywhere else.

And your attic sounds pretty darned comfortable for your temperment and needs.

But, unfortunately, choosing to go one's own way can be awfully lonely at times.

This I understand. I get away with it a bit more because I am already known to be essentially "eccentric", and no one that knows me is surprised to hear about my predilections. And I'm male and dominant. That helps too. MIS is in similar straits though.

It's odd. I've been able to tell all my friends, and none of them really batted an eyelash. My family has been kept clueless for reasons of my own personal sanity.

Because friends tend to self-select out of your life if they aren't cool with your core values and behaviour patterns. They obviously are, and you are not the sort of person to keep things really deep and secret.

 

[BiBunny]

I was going to try to explain, but then I realized it was too complicated and would just confuse everyone. Anyway, thanks for listening, everyone.

 

[00Syd]

WARNING!! Incredibly over-long post ahead! You don't have to read it! Really!



First off, let me just say thanks to everybody who responded. I really appreciate it. I also know that I didn't really go into much detail about the mechanics of my situation, so I'll do that now.

I knew that Seb was poly before we got together. He had actually just broken up with both of his (now ex) girlfriends really very soon before we got together. When we were talking about if we wanted to try a relationship, it was made clear that he was poly and that if I couldn't deal with that, this just wasn't going to work. Now, I had never done poly before, but I really thought that while I might not be able to deal with any other emotional relationships, I could totally be down for an open-type relationship, sex and play-wise. So, I told him that, and he was all "sweet, lets boogy" (I'm paraphrasing), and we got together and it was all good.

(Keep in mind folks, that Seb is in NYC and I am in Boston for school, with occasional trips to NYC during the school year)

So, later on down the road, I'm stuck in Boston and Seb wants to go to a local NYC play party. I'm like, sure, that's cool. Then he tells me that he might play with this one particular lady at the party and his words felt like a punch to the gut. It hurt to think about him playing with someone else, the way he plays with me. I couldn't think about it. I was super nervous and scared that in the end I wouldn't be able to handle it. But I told him to go for it and just, you know, hit me up the next day.

So the next day we talk and everything is fine, I feel okay, I don't even mind him telling me what went down (although I wasn't super keen on hearing the details), and it makes me think that this is okay. My feeling alright the next day makes me feel like maybe I'm down for an open relationship after all, and that it might just take a little getting used to since I've never done anything like this before. A few days later, he gets photos from the party of him playing with that lady, and he wants to show me. The idea of looking at him playing with someone else is pretty scary, but I figure that since I could handle his playing at all, it would be fine. He shows them to me and at first I'm looking, cool, cool, but then it starts to hurt and I stop looking. I look into my lap, instead.

We, of course, talked about all of this. Seb made it clear to me that even if we did do a real poly thing, with other relationships, that that wouldn't make him feel any less strongly for me, or change the way he felt for me. But since I'm not comfortable with that, he assured me that he wouldn't get emotionally involved with anybody else, and promised me that he really would be able to control it. He told me that he would always ask before playing with anybody else, and make sure that I'm okay with it. He really reassured me, and made me feel like everything was going to be fine.

He played with a few other people at different times, and each time we tried something else, but every time it still hurt. One time we decided that he just wouldn't tell me about it after, but it still hurt. Another time we decided that the way for me to not feel jealous and hurt was for me to be there while they played, but it still hurt a lot, and I couldn't watch.

After a number of instances, and some real soul-searching, I've come to the conclusion that I'm just not poly, in any way, shape, or form. I almost feel like I still could be down for an open relationship, and that its something I just need to get used to, but based on past reactions, that's probably not true. Another aspect of this is that I have really no desire to play with or have sex with anybody but Seb. I also almost feel like if I found somebody else who I desperately wanted to play with and/or fuck, and then did, the entire problem would be solved. But I know that that's probably not true either.

There is a lot more that happened, and a lot more that I've been thinking about that's relevant, but this post is already way over-long, so I'll save the extra detail until it comes up in further conversation.

Syd, methinks that your gut reaction as described here is likely the most common result. Seems to me that poly is a state of mind as much as anything else and if all parties are not in a more or less similar state concerning poly, then it's just not likely to work.

That said, all relationships are somewhat different just because all people are somewhat different. So there may well be lots of anecdotal evidence out there to suggest otherwise.

What matters most, it seems to me, is how you think that you would respond. And let that be the guide to your decision making.

So far, I'm responding pretty oppositely to the way I want to respond. Besides this one thing, our relationship is so good, and is going so well, and the idea that this could ruin everything is devastating. I'm really willing to have a little bit of hurt now and again, rather then lose such a wonderful relationship.

I went to this class on poly and open relationships a little while ago, and somebody asked about this exact situation, and could it work? The presenter said that it could, but didn't go into detail how. I've been thinking about it pretty non-stop since, though it really only recently came to a head in my mind. It was the moment when I realized that I might not be able to handle an open relationship at all, and that I might actually just be purely monogamous, that I started to worry and become afraid.

ahhh well yes that is quite a bit different, but also commonplace. can it work out? sure. this is not something that i really like to reveal, and i won't dwell on it now because it still depresses and scares the crap outta me, but....i am in kind of this situation. about 2 years ago my Master started exploring the "idea" of poly. for the majority of that time i chose to take the route of denial...i simply would not take it seriously, and viewed his interests/relationships with other women as casual. because you see i can handle that just fine. i could handle him wanting to scrump and skullfuck a different cute subbie for every night of the week. what i cannot handle is him actually having any kind of significant emotional attachment to another person or wanting to be committed to another person. but, that is what eventually happened...he took another slave. it was never to be a live-in situation, and it was not a case of romantic love. still, he wanted to possess her, and he cared about her. that made it an absolutely emotionally and mentally devastating situation for me.

I've thought about how I would feel if this sort of thing happened. I can't even imagine it. It would kill me, emotionally.

<snip>
my heart is just not wired that way, i cannot share my heart with more than one and i do not want to share the heart of the one i love with anyone else. to me (and i realize poly-wired folks will disagree with this) it would feel like giving someone my whole self, and receiving only a piece of them in return.

I feel the exact same way. Seb explained to me how his loving somebody else would in no way diminish or change his love for me, and I logically understand, I really do get it, and I know that what he is saying is the truth. But despite that, I would still feel like a second fiddle, like I've been brushed aside, like I'm not enough, like hes tired of me, and on and on and on. (I've thought about this a lot.)

<snip>
i also was not able to grant my Master's desire of becoming "friends" with the other slave. that is all the relationship he wanted between us, nothing kinky or intimate, just to be friends. i was always cordial with her, but her very existence shattered my heart, so that is as far as it could ever go.

I think I would react the same way.

The funny thing is, the only time Seb ever played with anybody else and I was really pretty okay with it, was when it was a mutual friend. I was able to hang around and have fun with the both of them because she was my friend and I enjoyed her company, and I thought it was fun seeing her get all tied up, and I got to tickle her after. I even helped tie her up, in a really minimal way, and it was alright.

every other girl I didn't know and wasn't friends with first. I am able to be cordial with them, but no matter how hard I try, I just cannot be that friendly. I just can not make myself like them. I know that this is really stupid, jealous silliness, but I can't help it.

so emotionally we are in a weird place now...i feel a certain distance between us, because now i know he is capable of deeply caring for more than one, while i am not. but like we have done for 9 years, we are persevering.

We are in sort of a weird place, too. We both know that we need to talk about it, but we just haven't. We've really been kind of ignoring it, which is the worst way to deal with the problem. The next time I see him I want to try to bring it up, because we really, really do need to talk about it, even though I'm kind of scared of what will happen if we do.

so can it work? yes, but not without sacrifice on someone's part. whether or not one is willing to make that sacrifice or can live with that sacrifice, is the question.

Yeah... This is what we need to figure out, and I knew, I KNEW, that it would come to one of us making a sacrifice. Honestly, its probably going to be me.

*hugs for bunny and syd*

Thanks

It depends. And, yeah, I know, that's always the answer.

It depends on how serious mono the mono person is and how seriously poly the poly person is. If the mono person is okay with the poly person having other stuff going on, but not having anything else going on themselves, no sweat. If the poly person is cool with keeping things exclusive out of respect for the mono partner, no sweat.

But if poly is hard-wired core to the poly partner's sexuality and existence, and the mono person simply cannot in any way deal, there is trouble ahead.

In my own situation, neither viv nor MIS are particularly poly. What makes it work is neither are 100% gotta-be mono. It also helps that they are honestly really good friends too. In our case, the working model is "polyfidelitous triad", meaning there's three of us here, and that's it.

I'm always convincing myself that I'm less mono than I know I am. That's a problem. I really need to just accept myself and the way I'm wired. I keep convincing myself that I can do things that I can't, that I can deal with stuff that I'm not okay with, and its really a big part of the problem. If I can't even be honest about my own self, how the hell can we ever come to a solution when we do finally talk about it?

 

[rida]

I was going to try to explain, but then I realized it was too complicated and would just confuse everyone. Anyway, thanks for listening, everyone.

If I may leave my two yen, for what I understand of your struggle with the whole situation.

Homburg-sama words are spot on when it come to the distinction between escape and compartmentalization. The latter is something that all have to do, one degree or another, to live in society.

But what I perceive as being your struggle is that you want to be able to live with them. Under the same roof and not going back and forth. You are wishing for your arrangement to feel more stable.

I may be out of my mark, as I do not know what your Owner's feeling and attitude toward the poly arrangement is, but do you resent them for the hurt you feel that it will never be under the same roof as Homburg's triad is? And why do you think you will embarrass them if your love for them shows in front of their friends? Is perhaps the fact that they even more then you want to keep the situation "secret" that bothers you?

As I said, I might be totally off. And if so I apologize.

As for your family, I'm 41 and still get worked up in a huff trying to not disappoint an hyper critical and passive aggressive mother that I know loves me to pieces but still cannot believe I'm really happy in my marriage. She probably would have no problem with knowing that I have boyfriends but she would have a stroke if she knew that Hubby is my Dom and what that entitles (now if I was the Domme... perhaps she would approve ...lol)

 

[intothewoods]

Bunny - maybe you are just trying to wrap your head around what your future will be. If you reject traditional marriage and kids, for example, then the question becomes what do you want for your life. And that's such a wide open question (that need not be immediately answered, of course!) that I think it can be a little overwhelming.

Funny, I present a somewhat normal family picture, with the exception of coparenting with the ex (though that's becoming more common, but anyway), but I sometimes leave social occasions with other parents and think, gah, I gotta get the fuck out of here! I just think your head might be grappling with how everything in your life fits together and that's pretty darn normal.

Syd - Do you play with other people? With friends? Some things make me jealous and some don't. Do you want to play with other people? I think it's important to think through your feelings and not make a rash judgment. On this subject, I have thought that I knew what I wanted many times and then surprised myself.

 

[00Syd]

Syd - Do you play with other people?

No.

With friends?

No. But most of my kinky friends all play with each other, and they all seem to always be having so much more fun than me, but when I think about playing with any of them it just seems awkward. So, yeah, no, but sometimes I wish that I did. Which is silly.

Some things make me jealous and some don't. Do you want to play with other people?

Yes, but only because I think playing with other people will make me stop being jealous when Seb plays with other people. I don't actually have any real desire to play with anybody else. But, who knows? Maybe I'll come across somebody one day that I just have to bone, and then I will, and I'll magically stop being jealous, and we'll live happily ever after. It could happen.

I think it's important to think through your feelings and not make a rash judgment. On this subject, I have thought that I knew what I wanted many times and then surprised myself.

Yes, I'm trying very hard to think it all through. That last whole bunch of weeks I've really been going through every situation, every feeling, and thinking about them, and trying to figure out some conclusion so that I can start working on a solution. But there are just too many conflicting feelings and situations and outcomes and whathaveyou.

I'm afraid that I'll come to a conclusion, and say that I know what I want, and then act accordingly, only to realize that well, I do want that, but only in this, this, and that situation. Or something like that. I still feel like I could get into an open relationship type thing, but I can't tell whether that means that I really could get into that and just need to overcome something that I haven't yet figured out, or if I just want to get into that and am deluding myself. Its all very confusing and roundabout.

Thank you for responding

 

[rida]

So far, I'm responding pretty oppositely to the way I want to respond. Besides this one thing, our relationship is so good, and is going so well, and the idea that this could ruin everything is devastating. I'm really willing to have a little bit of hurt now and again, rather then lose such a wonderful relationship.

I went to this class on poly and open relationships a little while ago, and somebody asked about this exact situation, and could it work? The presenter said that it could, but didn't go into detail how. I've been thinking about it pretty non-stop since, though it really only recently came to a head in my mind. It was the moment when I realized that I might not be able to handle an open relationship at all, and that I might actually just be purely monogamous, that I started to worry and become afraid.
*snip*
I feel the exact same way. Seb explained to me how his loving somebody else would in no way diminish or change his love for me, and I logically understand, I really do get it, and I know that what he is saying is the truth. But despite that, I would still feel like a second fiddle, like I've been brushed aside, like I'm not enough, like hes tired of me, and on and on and on. (I've thought about this a lot.)
*snip*
The funny thing is, the only time Seb ever played with anybody else and I was really pretty okay with it, was when it was a mutual friend. I was able to hang around and have fun with the both of them because she was my friend and I enjoyed her company, and I thought it was fun seeing her get all tied up, and I got to tickle her after. I even helped tie her up, in a really minimal way, and it was alright.
*snip*
Yeah... This is what we need to figure out, and I knew, I KNEW, that it would come to one of us making a sacrifice. Honestly, its probably going to be me.
*snip*
I'm always convincing myself that I'm less mono than I know I am. That's a problem. I really need to just accept myself and the way I'm wired. I keep convincing myself that I can do things that I can't, that I can deal with stuff that I'm not okay with, and its really a big part of the problem. If I can't even be honest about my own self, how the hell can we ever come to a solution when we do finally talk about it?

Hope you don't mind I've snipped and bolded some parts of your post.

At the end, like with any issue in any relationship, is coming down to:
what you cannot compromise on
what you can or a willing to put up with
and
is it worth it in the long run

From the snipped above it seems that even thou logically you understand the truth in Seb's words, that you are not second best just because he wants (or need) someone else, your heart does not believe it. Ask yourself why you cannot believe it. And if it is because that the way your heart works, than you'll have to accept it and decide if the hurt you feel each time is worth it to you.

From the fact that you said you did not have problem when it was a friend, there are instances when it does not hurt. Ask yourself why and see if you both can find a workable way to incorporate your monogamy and his polyamory.

All relationships are balancing acts. Some have to balance unusual things.

 

[EmpressFi]

Syd

*hugs*

reading your latest post brought me back to a very shameful and painful memory. I was a few months pregnant and Malin had arranged for his girlfriend to come visit. We'd had plenty of visits where our SO would visit and we'd just sleep in the guest room. I knew there was a problem, brewing in my head, during my SO's last visit but I pushed it away as a hormonal worry. I missed Malin. I loved Master deeply and treasured each moment together, but felt incomplete without Malin.

Then came the visit. It started off ok, but all day long I had this sinking, sick feeling in my stomach. The closer we got to bed time, the more upset and irrational I became. I ended up storming to bed early. I just couldnt sit there and wait for the end of the evening. I put on my headset so that I wouldnt hear them in the next room, but it wasnt enough. Malin heard me crying and came up to check on me. I was so embarrassed. If he'd heard me, so had she. But it didnt stop me from saying that it was my issue that it was killing me to think that she'd be in "MY SPOT" in my bed, that someone else would lie next to him. But I was still giving him his night because it was my issue.

When I heard their footsteps on the stairs, I started crying again. He came in and said that she told him she couldnt sleep in our room, not knowing how I felt. I felt like shit for that. I couldnt figure out what was wrong, other than hormones.

They didnt have another visit.

Neither did Master and me.

I waited for a few weeks after the baby to see if my feelings would change back. They didnt. But Malin still felt/feels the same. Our relationships ended before we had to confront my feelings of jealousy or unease. Malin's SO decided that she wasnt comfortable with her fiance being poly and that it wasnt fair for her to keep Malin if she made him give up his other girlfriends. Master and I ended a month or so later because in addition to not feeling poly, I stopped feeling submissive

I say all of this to say, that if Malin came to me tomorrow and said he really wanted to be with someone, that he cared for them, I'd probably try to find a way to work through it. But I dont know that it would work. And Malin wouldnt ask me to be someone I'm not just to fulfill his needs.

 

[00Syd]

Hope you don't mind I've snipped and bolded some parts of your post.

At the end, like with any issue in any relationship, is coming down to:
what you cannot compromise on
what you can or a willing to put up with
and
is it worth it in the long run

From the snipped above it seems that even thou logically you understand the truth in Seb's words, that you are not second best just because he wants (or need) someone else, your heart does not believe it. Ask yourself why you cannot believe it. And if it is because that the way your heart works, than you'll have to accept it and decide if the hurt you feel each time is worth it to you.

From the fact that you said you did not have problem when it was a friend, there are instances when it does not hurt. Ask yourself why and see if you both can find a workable way to incorporate your monogamy and his polyamory.

All relationships are balancing acts. Some have to balance unusual things.

Yes, that's true. Thanks for that

You are framing the situation in a way that I haven't yet, and it's given me more to think about. I'm now trying to compile a great list of things that I need to bring up when I talk to Seb about all of this. Your post will really help. Thanks again.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Yes, but only because I think playing with other people will make me stop being jealous when Seb plays with other people. I don't actually have any real desire to play with anybody else. But, who knows? Maybe I'll come across somebody one day that I just have to bone, and then I will, and I'll magically stop being jealous, and we'll live happily ever after. It could happen.

Do you think an underlying reason you could play with other people is to make Seb jealous? Make him feel the way he's made you feel?

 

[00Syd]

Syd

*hugs*

reading your latest post brought me back to a very shameful and painful memory. I was a few months pregnant and Malin had arranged for his girlfriend to come visit. We'd had plenty of visits where our SO would visit and we'd just sleep in the guest room. I knew there was a problem, brewing in my head, during my SO's last visit but I pushed it away as a hormonal worry. I missed Malin. I loved Master deeply and treasured each moment together, but felt incomplete without Malin.

Then came the visit. It started off ok, but all day long I had this sinking, sick feeling in my stomach. The closer we got to bed time, the more upset and irrational I became. I ended up storming to bed early. I just couldnt sit there and wait for the end of the evening. I put on my headset so that I wouldnt hear them in the next room, but it wasnt enough. Malin heard me crying and came up to check on me. I was so embarrassed. If he'd heard me, so had she. But it didnt stop me from saying that it was my issue that it was killing me to think that she'd be in "MY SPOT" in my bed, that someone else would lie next to him. But I was still giving him his night because it was my issue.

When I heard their footsteps on the stairs, I started crying again. He came in and said that she told him she couldnt sleep in our room, not knowing how I felt. I felt like shit for that. I couldnt figure out what was wrong, other than hormones.

They didnt have another visit.

Neither did Master and me.

I waited for a few weeks after the baby to see if my feelings would change back. They didnt. But Malin still felt/feels the same. Our relationships ended before we had to confront my feelings of jealousy or unease. Malin's SO decided that she wasnt comfortable with her fiance being poly and that it wasnt fair for her to keep Malin if she made him give up his other girlfriends. Master and I ended a month or so later because in addition to not feeling poly, I stopped feeling submissive

I say all of this to say, that if Malin came to me tomorrow and said he really wanted to be with someone, that he cared for them, I'd probably try to find a way to work through it. But I dont know that it would work. And Malin wouldnt ask me to be someone I'm not just to fulfill his needs.

There was one instance when Seb and I were talking about all of this, and I was trying really, really hard to describe how I felt. I was trying to explain how even though it makes me feel like shit when he's with somebody else, I just cannot, no matter how crappy it makes me feel, tell him that I don't want him playing with other people because I'd feel like the stereotypical bitch wife who doesn't let her husband jerk off, or go play poker with the guys, or whatever else. I don't want to tell him that he can't do something that's just so... not a big deal. I could be crying and crying and feeling awful and I'd still tell him to go on, don't not play with her on my account, etc.

And your feeling of not wanting her in "your spot" on the bed, I totally feel that. I don't want anybody on "MY SPOT," either. It really kills me, too. The only problem is that I feel like "my spot" extends to way more places then just the bed. There is "my spot" on Seb's rope, "my spot" on his lap, "my spot" in his hands, "my spot" at the end of his floggers, "my spot" in the crook of his arm, and I don't want anybody else in "my spot!" Its MINE!

So. Yeah. I think we can relate to each other.

I feel really awful feeling so possessive.

 

[00Syd]

Do you think an underlying reason you could play with other people is to make Seb jealous? Make him feel the way he's made you feel?

No, not at all. I know that he wouldn't be jealous, and I don't want to make him feel jealous or bad in any way, anyway.

But I do feel like if I played with somebody else I would maybe "get it" and then not be jealous anymore. The only problem is that I don't have any desire to play with anyone else.

 

[CutieMouse]

<snippage>

Yes, but only because I think playing with other people will make me stop being jealous when Seb plays with other people. I don't actually have any real desire to play with anybody else. But, who knows? Maybe I'll come across somebody one day that I just have to bone, and then I will, and I'll magically stop being jealous, and we'll live happily ever after. It could happen.

Yes, I'm trying very hard to think it all through. That last whole bunch of weeks I've really been going through every situation, every feeling, and thinking about them, and trying to figure out some conclusion so that I can start working on a solution. But there are just too many conflicting feelings and situations and outcomes and whathaveyou.

<snippage>

Syd hon, I've seen you mention jealousy several times as if it's a bad thing, or something you can control, or something to just *poof* be done with... but it isn't. Jealousy is jealousy - a simple (yet complex) emotion. Nothing more. Jealousy isn't good or bad; how you react/interact with jealousy is.

What is the base of the jealousy? Fear? Replacement? Losing something that is *just you two*? Time? Energy? Drama? Even if you do figure out the triggers for the jealousy, it may always be there. Even if you mesh in every other way, you might not in this way. I reached a point where I realized I don't expect exclusivity; I do expect respect. So I defined what respect meant for me (in relationship terms), and went from there.

(BTW my poly issues [having done it before] are time and drama. LOL He keeps mentioning how hot it would be to add another woman, and I'm like mmm... yeah. As soon as you find someone as cool and drama free as me, and add a few extra hours to each day/magically slow down both of our schedules, dear. )

 

[00Syd]

Syd hon, I've seen you mention jealousy several times as if it's a bad thing, or something you can control, or something to just *poof* be done with... but it isn't. Jealousy is jealousy - a simple (yet complex) emotion. Nothing more. Jealousy isn't good or bad; how you react/interact with jealousy is.

What is the base of the jealousy? Fear? Replacement? Losing something that is *just you two*? Time? Energy? Drama? Even if you do figure out the triggers for the jealousy, it may always be there. Even if you mesh in every other way, you might not in this way. I reached a point where I realized I don't expect exclusivity; I do expect respect. So I defined what respect meant for me (in relationship terms), and went from there.

(BTW my poly issues [having done it before] are time and drama. LOL He keeps mentioning how hot it would be to add another woman, and I'm like mmm... yeah. As soon as you find someone as cool and drama free as me, and add a few extra hours to each day/magically slow down both of our schedules, dear. )

Yeah, a while ago I worked out all of the stuff that makes up my own jealousy and it is mostly fear. I'm terrified of losing Seb, either emotionally, physically, or both. I'm afraid that he won't need or want me anymore. I'm afraid that he'll become enamored with someone else and I'll fall by the wayside. I'm completely, utterly afraid. Terrified.

I know that jealousy is an emotion like any other, but its hard for me to treat it like one, you know? I'm just hoping I find a way to deal with it, or better understand it, or come to terms with it. I know that it might always be there, no matter what I do, but I want to be able to deal with it somehow. I wanna wrangle the motherfucker.

But yeah, thanks for your post That's all stuff I had thought about before, but needed to think about again.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Before I go ahead and change the subject a little, lemme give BiBunny a *biiiiig hug*

[topic change]

Now, I'm not sure if this has been covered in this thread already (and I'm too impatient to read the whole thing and find out), but I just wanted to get all of your opinions on relationships where one member is polyamorous and the other is monogamous. Recipe for eventual disaster? Think it can work? Long term? Short term? Any and all thoughts on the subject are welcome and appreciated.

My husband has no desire whatsoever to have sex with another woman. He also can not fathom being in love with anyone else but me. On the other hand I have been in love with one other person besides Daddy while I have been married. (also have had several sexual partner whom I wasn't in love with)

My husband can only do monogamy, while I am personally poly. Personally poly meaning it's ok for me but I may have a problem with him being poly if he chose to do that. I know how selfish that sounds. But for my husband I just know that he is incapable to be in love with two people. (for whatever reason I don't hae a problem with Daddy being poly, maybe because he was already married when I met him)

My husband and I have not had any problems at all. We have been together over 25 years. The marriage is as solid as ever. One of the reasons it works for us is that my husband has a wifesharing kink. Another of course is we are totally honest.

I belong to a wifesharing forum where for the most part the husband is monogamous and the wife has other sexual partners. Usually it is just sex though, though I personally know of a few where the wife is also in love with the other man. Everything is always out in the open and honest.

 

[rida]

Yes, that's true. Thanks for that

You are framing the situation in a way that I haven't yet, and it's given me more to think about. I'm now trying to compile a great list of things that I need to bring up when I talk to Seb about all of this. Your post will really help. Thanks again.

Glad it helped.
We often forget that at the end, mono or poly, kinky or not, it is a relationship and as such it has to fit and fulfill us at our core.
The hows and whats are just the details.

Yeah, a while ago I worked out all of the stuff that makes up my own jealousy and it is mostly fear. I'm terrified of losing Seb, either emotionally, physically, or both. I'm afraid that he won't need or want me anymore. I'm afraid that he'll become enamored with someone else and I'll fall by the wayside. I'm completely, utterly afraid. Terrified.

May I ask how about you? Do you think that someone could come along and catch your fancy to the point that Seb would became an after thought?

I know (heart and mind) that Hubby loving someone else, or being in love with someone else, does not take away anything from his love for me, nor makes him want to be with me any less.

And he knows that even if I love someone else, or I'm in love with someone else, it does not take away from my love for him nor from my desire to be with him.

The fact is that, not only I love him (and he loves me), we are also best friends, and partners in crime and there is nobody else in the world we'd rather be with. I would not mind being with someone else as well but only if it does not interfere with Hubby's and I relationship. Same for him.

Priority is always our relationship, and we both know that if any other relationship interferes with it and it cannot be worked out, it will have to be cut off.

 

[Homburg]

The funny thing is, the only time Seb ever played with anybody else and I was really pretty okay with it, was when it was a mutual friend. I was able to hang around and have fun with the both of them because she was my friend and I enjoyed her company, and I thought it was fun seeing her get all tied up, and I got to tickle her after. I even helped tie her up, in a really minimal way, and it was alright.

every other girl I didn't know and wasn't friends with first. I am able to be cordial with them, but no matter how hard I try, I just cannot be that friendly. I just can not make myself like them. I know that this is really stupid, jealous silliness, but I can't help it.

I think this is really important.

Seriously. You have identified a circumstance in which he has played with another woman and you were cool with it. The elements here include the fact that you were comfortable with the person before this event, and were present, and were involved. If you can point to a moment where it was cool, you've got something to work with.

Every relationship, and I do mean every single bleeding relationship, incorporates compromise. In this case, you have a moment, however specific, where it was cool. It might be very worthwhile to figure out what all made that moment cool, and include that in the discussion.

And it is not a matter of being that wife, or being demanding, or whatever. It is a matter of identifying your actual needs, not your wants, and working towards making sure those needs are met.

 

[BiBunny]

If I may leave my two yen, for what I understand of your struggle with the whole situation.

Homburg-sama words are spot on when it come to the distinction between escape and compartmentalization. The latter is something that all have to do, one degree or another, to live in society.

But what I perceive as being your struggle is that you want to be able to live with them. Under the same roof and not going back and forth. You are wishing for your arrangement to feel more stable.

Pretty much.

I may be out of my mark, as I do not know what your Owner's feeling and attitude toward the poly arrangement is, but do you resent them for the hurt you feel that it will never be under the same roof as Homburg's triad is? And why do you think you will embarrass them if your love for them shows in front of their friends? Is perhaps the fact that they even more then you want to keep the situation "secret" that bothers you?

As I said, I might be totally off. And if so I apologize.

I don't think I resent them, unless I have some crazy passive-aggressive feelings buried somewhere. It's as much my "fault" as theirs that we can't do the 24/7 live-in thing. Maybe it's just a "the grass is greener on the other side" kind of thing. I dunno.

I will say it does hurt that I can't have that, though. Maybe if I'm ever able to move to the same town as them, instead of 70 miles away, it'll be easier. Still not the same, I'm afraid, but easier.

As for your family, I'm 41 and still get worked up in a huff trying to not disappoint an hyper critical and passive aggressive mother that I know loves me to pieces but still cannot believe I'm really happy in my marriage. She probably would have no problem with knowing that I have boyfriends but she would have a stroke if she knew that Hubby is my Dom and what that entitles (now if I was the Domme... perhaps she would approve ...lol)

*Hugs* You'd think we'd both know better than to bother trying by now!

Bunny - maybe you are just trying to wrap your head around what your future will be. If you reject traditional marriage and kids, for example, then the question becomes what do you want for your life. And that's such a wide open question (that need not be immediately answered, of course!) that I think it can be a little overwhelming.

Oh, yes, I don't doubt that at all.

Everyone I know pretty much is already married, and many of them have kids. They've all got steady (if sucky) jobs and somewhere to live.

Then there's me, the somewhat nomadic phone sex operator who's trying to finish grad school. At least while you're still in school, you have an excuse not to know what the hell you're going to do next. But when I finish, then what? I have no clue.

I know what I don't want. I know what I'd like in an ideal world. But I don't know how to make any of that work in the real world. It's frustrating!

Funny, I present a somewhat normal family picture, with the exception of coparenting with the ex (though that's becoming more common, but anyway), but I sometimes leave social occasions with other parents and think, gah, I gotta get the fuck out of here! I just think your head might be grappling with how everything in your life fits together and that's pretty darn normal.

It's good to hear that I'm normal.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I'm always convincing myself that I'm less mono than I know I am. That's a problem. I really need to just accept myself and the way I'm wired. I keep convincing myself that I can do things that I can't, that I can deal with stuff that I'm not okay with, and its really a big part of the problem. If I can't even be honest about my own self, how the hell can we ever come to a solution when we do finally talk about it?

Syd, you DO need to learn to accept yourself just as you are, monogamous and all. it does not say anything negative about your character, your submissiveness, or the depth of your love if you simply cannot handle a relationship that involves other people. you stated that you all discussed this before forming a commitment, you knew he was poly and made clear to you that it was something you would have to deal with. you figured that maybe, just maybe, you could tolerate sex and play with others, kept to the casual level, but never full blown polyamory. he accepted this. and that right there i think is where the problem really starts...from the very start the both of you are denying your true needs and natural inclinations to some extent.

if someone says to me, "i'm poly," i do not take that to mean they want a sexually open relationship. i take that to mean that emotionally they are wired to love and be committed to more than one person at a time. that he is sacrificing that for you is both good and bad. good, because it makes things much more tolerable for you, but bad because it is not free and how long can one really live that way?


"But I do feel like if I played with somebody else I would maybe "get it" and then not be jealous anymore." --this is just not true. first, i think you realize that deep down you are not wired for even a sexually open relationship. even in the one not so negative experience you recount, you were only "pretty okay" with it. second, there is a tremendous difference between being sexually open and being poly. i have not one polyamorous bone in my body, the very concept is antithetical to my nature, however i am very much wired for sex with multiple partners. likewise, my Master having sex or doing anything physical with others has zero effect on me emotionally. but him caring for someone else, wanting to control someone else...that is something i still cannot comprehend in my heart and likely never will, because it is just not in me.

 

[BiBunny]

What OSG said.

Really, poly is not for everyone. Actually, it's not for most people. I'm not saying that make myself sound all awesome because I can pull it off, either. I AM wired this way, and it's hard for me sometimes. I can only imagine how rough it'd be on someone who's not naturally inclined towards poly. I don't think I could put myself through that, were it me.

Syd, I'll tell you something that I don't normally mention in hopes that it'll make you feel better.

I have a Master, a Mistress, and a Kitty. Master and Mistress are occasional swingers. By "occasional swingers," I mean they're not really into the whole swing lifestyle thing, but they'll play with other couples sometimes in a no power exchange kind of way. Kitty, of course, plays with whoever she wants and sometimes gets involved with others relationship-wise as well. It wouldn't even bother me if Master and/or Mistress ended up in serious relationships with others, in a kinky, non-power-exchange kind of way.

I don't have a problem with any of these things, aside from getting pouty every now and then that I wasn't around for the swingeriffic fun.

But the thought of my owners taking another pet? No. I can't even think about it.

I look at M/s/s relationships and wonder how they do it. I can handle being one of many relationships. I can handle being one of many that my SOs play with. But there is no way in hell I could handle another submissive in our relationship. None.

Sometimes, I think I *might* be able to handle a male sub/pet/slave. Well, as long as they didn't mind if I tortured him, too. (The whole sadomasochistic pet thing.) It might be fun, but I'm not sure if I could do it or not. But another female sub/pet/slave? No.

My owners. MINE. Hands off.

See? Even poly people can be weird about certain things. Don't be so hard on yourself, doll.

 

[jenniferbaby]

I'm wondering people's take on this. I haven't gone through the whole of this thread so if it has been addressed before, sorry about the repeat.

There seem to be two types of people with primary relationships who seek romantic and sexual relationships outside the primary one. There are those who are satisfied with their primary relationship and their desire for secondary relationships implies no dissatisfaction or insecurity about the primary one. There are also those who are not satisfied with their primary relationship, but for whatever reasons they won't leave it and decide to seek secondary relationships.

The first type of person is obviously poly and prefers that lifestyle, and may or may not choose to maintain their primary relationship if it somehow went sour. I'm wondering if the second type of person can be defined as poly and if they would choose secondary relationships if the primary one was satisfactory. I guess the question is, does the desire for multiple romantic/sexual relationships make a person poly, or does the reason behind that desire make a person poly?

 

[intothewoods]

<snip> I guess the question is, does the desire for multiple romantic/sexual relationships make a person poly, or does the reason behind that desire make a person poly?

Good question. I was listening to a Dan Savage podcast recently, and he said (to someone mono), it's not that you never have desires for other people, it's that you choose not to act on them (or act on them by going outside of the bounds of your relationship). While some people might be mono because they've never considered anything else, others are self-aware about their choice. I have found that for myself it makes more sense to think of it in terms what makes sense in my life rather than as a deep burning question of identity. That's just me though.

 

[rida]

*snip*does the desire for multiple romantic/sexual relationships make a person poly, or does the reason behind that desire make a person poly?

The way I define poly is not "the desire for multiple romantic/sexual relationships" but as "the emotional and mental wiring that allows to love and be in love with multiple persons/partners at the same time"

The fact that the feeling are acted upon or not and why, is not, for me, the defining point.

As for the above question .... good question!

Surely the "reasons" are more a defining element than the desire itself. Someone can desire multiple partners without necessarily being poly nor a cheater (see swinger, swapper, wifeshare, cockhold, open relationships, etc).