Poly relationships - need some input please

[Bramblethorn]

Maybe if B's life were so inextricably tangled up with A's, then perhaps B should've thought about that before he/she started the whole relationship with C thing?

In the case I'm thinking of, she did. (Well, it's a bit more complicated than that - both the disability and the jealousy showed up gradually, and when she started the relationship with C = me, she probably didn't realise just HOW dependent she was going to be on A. But if I went into all the details we'd be here all night...)

At the start of the relationship, all of us concerned discussed things extensively. A assured us that he was okay with things and, not being mind-readers, we took him at his word. Even if we were mind-readers it probably wouldn't have helped; AFAIK he believed it himself.

With the benefit of hindsight, it would have been really lovely if we'd anticipated the possibility that A was being dishonest with himself and unable to tell us the truth because he didn't know himself. And the possibility that B would become sicker and more dependent on him, to the point where separating was no longer a viable option. And in particular, how those two scenarios might interact with one another.

But without the benefit of hindsight, you never know exactly how things are going to turn out - and if you want CERTAINTY that things will never go wrong, you're going to spend your life celibate. (And without making some of those mistakes, you'll probably never get the life experience required to avoid making mistakes...)

That's the point I'm trying to make. Too many people jump into this shit without thinking or by thinking, "Well, if I don't like it, I'll just tell my partner to dump the other person."

They do, and it sucks, and they shouldn't do that. But not everybody who gets into that dilemma got there by "not thinking" or by callousness. Even careful people with the best of intentions make mistakes.

 

[Netzach]

Again, I value communication, but it's not one-size fits all.

There are times when I absolutely bitch about A to B and B to A, and times when I go sulk until I don't anymore and I think people DO get into trouble when absolutely everyone has to know every shred of discontent with everyone else.

That's what works for me anyway, or does NOT.

 

[CutieMouse]

Again, I value communication, but it's not one-size fits all.

There are times when I absolutely bitch about A to B and B to A, and times when I go sulk until I don't anymore and I think people DO get into trouble when absolutely everyone has to know every shred of discontent with everyone else.

That's what works for me anyway, or does NOT.

Pretty much.

[BTW, The Men™ have the same first names.]

I discuss things with J, because J asks. The other J, however, doesn't ask, and doesn't necessarily want to know how things are going with J unless it's something I feel like mentioning.

One of them isn't involved with anyone else; his choice. The other... knowing his history, and him, I've always [correctly] presumed other women were around. He chooses to not discuss it out of concern for me, in spite of my open acknowledgement that it would be foolish of me to expect monogamy.

Like I said, a 3 minute discussion, owning our emotions, and we found our own ways back to center again.

 

[Netzach]

Pretty much.

[BTW, The Men™ have the same first names.]

I discuss things with J, because J asks. The other J, however, doesn't ask, and doesn't necessarily want to know how things are going with J unless it's something I feel like mentioning.

One of them isn't involved with anyone else; his choice. The other... knowing his history, and him, I've always [correctly] presumed other women were around. He chooses to not discuss it out of concern for me, in spite of my open acknowledgement that it would be foolish of me to expect monogamy.

Like I said, a 3 minute discussion, owning our emotions, and we found our own ways back to center again.

I have always thought XX XY and XY is a little different from XX XX XY or XX XX XX for this kind of reason. XY's don't want to process everything down to its smallest iota. I'd be pissed if things were being rubbed in my face, but T manages to kiss and tell in ways that don't make me insecure. I WISH M would gtfo and get a boyfriend again, it's overdue.

Basically I like a lot of alone time. That might be another thing that predisposes a person, stereotypes about greed and voraciousness aside.

 

[BiBunny]

Basically I like a lot of alone time. That might be another thing that predisposes a person, stereotypes about greed and voraciousness aside.

That really makes a lot of sense. Hmm....

 

[Wyldfire]

This has been a great read for me. And as a few of you have repeatedly said, not all poly relationships are anywhere near the same. I am in a poly family, and can't imagine not being with my loves.

We all live in one house, the kids (yes we all have kids in this) know we are all equally parents (yeah, they have indeed tried the well Momma Kitty said we could go kind of thing. He stepped on it hard and made it clear that wouldn't happen again.), each of us girls have done an agreed on time as a legal wife to him, and in about six months they will be divorcing and we will all be back to our equalibrium.

It's wierd but it works for us.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I have always thought XX XY and XY is a little different from XX XX XY or XX XX XX for this kind of reason. XY's don't want to process everything down to its smallest iota. I'd be pissed if things were being rubbed in my face, but T manages to kiss and tell in ways that don't make me insecure. I WISH M would gtfo and get a boyfriend again, it's overdue.

Basically I like a lot of alone time. That might be another thing that predisposes a person, stereotypes about greed and voraciousness aside.

I have never been monogamous by nature. I've been monogamous due to outside influences, and it diminishes me.

I have recently found myself in a poly relationship, such as it is-- the woman whom I've mentioned who is now in chemo. And one reason I felt okay committing to her in any way was because I know she has a primary who is reliable. Because I don't feel that I am reliable enough to be the one and only for anyone at this time-- aside from my preferences.

As it happens, the guy and I like each other a hella lot-- he and I have playdates where we recalibrate his old table saw and make toys out of plexiglass and build stuff. Now that she's ill, we check in with each other a lot, offer emotional support.

I've always held that your secondaries had better respect your primary relationship, even if they don't like the person in question. I've dropped people who couldn't respect my husband, back when we were together.

It's marvelous how often someone comes in that can not only respect the other partner but positively like them. And now that I'm the secondary, I'm amazed how often my lovers's partners are entirely admirable people. But then-- I'm willing to see them that way in the first place.

 

[desertslave]

Mine was an XY+XY and XX. I think that's fundamentally different from the get-go because XY's are just different. I had a friends-with-benefits relationship with an XX at the time and it was all just fine.

I had an XX+XY and XX thrown at me and responded poorly because it was done dishonestly. I tried to figure out WTF was wrong with me and realized that I just couldn't get past the dishonesty. My ex lied to me to the point where I didn't believe him if he said the sky was blue so it's a very sore point for me. Note: (riffing on Bramblethorn's point) striving to be honest with oneself is just as important as being honest with others--even if you don't especially like what you see.

 

[the captians wench]

Bunny, I see your point, I really do, and I can see how not having any one relationship be a primary would be ideal, I haven't found one in my life though.

My first experience with poly relationships was with a M/s couple. Their household was kind of "free love" feeling. There were two males who each identified as domanit and one female slave who was the property of one of the males. The second male was permitted to play with the female, and the female was allowed to do minimal things with others outside of the house. Her owner was free to do what he wanted with whom ever he wanted. But it was always the understanding that she was first girl. She didn't feel like she had a right to limit what her master wanted to do, but she needed some afermation that it was she that he would come home to at the end of the day.

The other two poly type relationships I've been involved with have been similar with the exception that one was open on both ends. I went into every single one of these knowing that I would be secondary, that my feelings would only be considered after those of the primary relationship and if my involvement with any of them caused stress to the primary relationship I would be removed. It didn't make it any easier to deal with the pain of that possibility and it probably limited my relationship with one of the women because I was always afraid of saying the wrong thing, pissing her off, and her playing the primary card.

I've had to re-evaluate my relationship and my involvement with these relationships many times. It can be very lonely, and at times the hurt can feel overwhelming, but the bad hasn't out weighed the good. It works for me at this point in my life, and I'm letting myself be happy.

I don't think I could be in a relationship where I didn't have a defined place. I need to know my ranking with that person, in some way. I often wish that wasn't the case, but I've learned to accept my quarks.

 

[BiBunny]

This has been a great read for me. And as a few of you have repeatedly said, not all poly relationships are anywhere near the same. I am in a poly family, and can't imagine not being with my loves.

We all live in one house, the kids (yes we all have kids in this) know we are all equally parents (yeah, they have indeed tried the well Momma Kitty said we could go kind of thing. He stepped on it hard and made it clear that wouldn't happen again.), each of us girls have done an agreed on time as a legal wife to him, and in about six months they will be divorcing and we will all be back to our equalibrium.

It's wierd but it works for us.

So fucking jealous. I want this. So bad.

Bunny, I see your point, I really do, and I can see how not having any one relationship be a primary would be ideal, I haven't found one in my life though.

My first experience with poly relationships was with a M/s couple. Their household was kind of "free love" feeling. There were two males who each identified as domanit and one female slave who was the property of one of the males. The second male was permitted to play with the female, and the female was allowed to do minimal things with others outside of the house. Her owner was free to do what he wanted with whom ever he wanted. But it was always the understanding that she was first girl. She didn't feel like she had a right to limit what her master wanted to do, but she needed some afermation that it was she that he would come home to at the end of the day.

The other two poly type relationships I've been involved with have been similar with the exception that one was open on both ends. I went into every single one of these knowing that I would be secondary, that my feelings would only be considered after those of the primary relationship and if my involvement with any of them caused stress to the primary relationship I would be removed. It didn't make it any easier to deal with the pain of that possibility and it probably limited my relationship with one of the women because I was always afraid of saying the wrong thing, pissing her off, and her playing the primary card.

I've had to re-evaluate my relationship and my involvement with these relationships many times. It can be very lonely, and at times the hurt can feel overwhelming, but the bad hasn't out weighed the good. It works for me at this point in my life, and I'm letting myself be happy.

I don't think I could be in a relationship where I didn't have a defined place. I need to know my ranking with that person, in some way. I often wish that wasn't the case, but I've learned to accept my quarks.

Like I said, I know the way I feel about things is not the usual poly party line. It doesn't usually fly with either poly people or BDSMers. I just know that after years of being considered a lesser-than or an also-ran and years of being treated as if I were not good enough, I started to believe it myself.

I'm glad that you have found peace with it. In my experience, it diminished me. I've seen it diminish lots of other people as well. The fact that nobody EVER talks about it because "ZOMG, the 'primary relationship' must be preserved at all costs, blah, blah, bullshit, blah, blah!!!!!" adds to the alienation that a lot of so-called "secondaries" feel.

But I suppose expecting it to be otherwise means expecting people to grow the hell up, own their feelings, and deal with them like adults, rather than playing out some manipulative bullshit psychodrama in order to get their own way. We all know that shit ain't gonna happen.

 

[BiBunny]

Also, lest I seem like nothing but a bitter, angry fat girl--which I am--here is the best thing about dealing with jealousy that I've ever read.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Also, lest I seem like nothing but a bitter, angry fat girl--which I am--here is the best thing about dealing with jealousy that I've ever read.

Interesting read, thank you for sharing.

Of course for it all to work the people involved actually have to communicate.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I would say I have a successful poly relationship. I have a husband who I live with and a dominant who lives a few hours away. Within the last 18 months my dominant started to casually date a single woman who quickly become much more than a FWB. She is now his lover and also his submissive.

My husband had a few episodes of insecurity when I first realized I was in love with my dominant. But with love and firm reassurance I was able to make him comfortable with the relationship. I have been married for over 20 years and with my dominant for over 7.

The addition of my dominant's lover was a little more difficult at first. There was a multitude of reasons for this with all 3 of us at fault, but we were all determined to find a way to make it work.

And it has. It is not perfect..yet. But it is on the right track. Our biggest issue is just being able to find the time to be able to talk things out. We each have children and work and family concerns that limit our time together.

What has helped me was to really try to put myself into each of their shoes and see the situation from their point of view. Not just hers, but his too.

We are still in the early stages of really getting comfortable with our poly family but it gets easier and more rewarding all the time. But it takes time. And it takes compromise. And most of all it takes lots and lots of communication.

 

[BiBunny]

Interesting read, thank you for sharing.

Of course for it all to work the people involved actually have to communicate.

Heaven forbid.

 

[eastern sun]

Also, lest I seem like nothing but a bitter, angry fat girl--which I am--here is the best thing about dealing with jealousy that I've ever read.

I also thought this was a great article, though I wanted to make a comment about this passage -

"As Shelly wrote elsewhere, behavior is an emergent phenomenon. You don't actually control your partner's heart by controlling his behavior. If your partner's heart is not really with your relationship, making rules won't protect your relationship; if your partner's heart is with your relationship, making rules to protect the relationship is unnecessary."

The author clearly states that making rules (i.e. if x makes me jealous, then no x allowed) does not actually address the underlying fears and insecurities that are the real threat to the relationship.

However, in a D/s or M/s context, I think it can be very helpful to establish rules (i.e. in x circumstance, y will occur) as partners are working through feelings of jealousy because "rules" and externalized authority structures are already part of the relationship's coping mechanisms.

I completely agree with the author that those rules can't fix problems in the relationship in the long term, but they can provide some security in a very complex emotional landscape to partners who have already found security in formal structures.

 

[the captians wench]

So fucking jealous. I want this. So bad.



Like I said, I know the way I feel about things is not the usual poly party line. It doesn't usually fly with either poly people or BDSMers. I just know that after years of being considered a lesser-than or an also-ran and years of being treated as if I were not good enough, I started to believe it myself.

I'm glad that you have found peace with it. In my experience, it diminished me. I've seen it diminish lots of other people as well. The fact that nobody EVER talks about it because "ZOMG, the 'primary relationship' must be preserved at all costs, blah, blah, bullshit, blah, blah!!!!!" adds to the alienation that a lot of so-called "secondaries" feel.

But I suppose expecting it to be otherwise means expecting people to grow the hell up, own their feelings, and deal with them like adults, rather than playing out some manipulative bullshit psychodrama in order to get their own way. We all know that shit ain't gonna happen.

I think that's really the key there, I'm a talker. It may take me a bit to get the nerve up to talk about something, but eventually I'll get it out. So I've been able to talk about how I feel about things, with him and with her though not together. They talk about them, and us, and I talk to each of them about us and all variations of us. Every one knows how I feel, and I how they feel, and if there is any question I can ask.

I had a relationship where I started to feel less than. My confidence was thrashed. But that relationship was very different. I never met her, and my existence was to be as invisible as possible. I didn't even "deserve" to be fucked by him. That one fucked me over.

If Mrs. were as able to talk about how she feels as I am, I think this whole thing would be a lot smoother, but she's not a talker. She's one of those people that tends to keep everything bottled up until it explodes out. So when she does talk, she attacks, and he's so used to her attacking, that he comes out fighting. It's weird. I can have a calm discussion about anything with either of them, but they don't seem to be able to do that with each other.

I think you're way of thinking is more "true" to the idea of poly, and most people just want "open".

I also think that if these two had ever made me feel like I wasn't valued, this wouldn't work, but they've always shown me that I am a valuable part of their lives. I may not play the same role as they do to each other, but I am important to them as much as they are important to me. Makes a world of difference.