Poly relationships - need some input please

[BonBon1976]

First off, I am inquiring in the hopes to help a friend through a rough time. I have never been in a poly relationship and am stumbling a bit I think, trying to help her.
I can see a bit of her self esteem weakening and she is coming to me for emotional support - I want to have some idea of what poly can be when it works etc. I know she really wants to make this work.

She is in a relationship where she is considered the main partner, there is another lady that is on the outskirts of the relationship - a play partner if you will. She is having a hard time finding her way through being ok with the playing moving further along than what was originally discussed.

I feel like the man in the relationship - who I have to say has always been upfront with her- is sort of enjoying the jealousy and not helping her through it as well as he could be. Either because he enjoys the feeling that she is jealous of him or he just isn't good at explaining things to her.

So if there is anyone on here in a successful poly relationship, that doesn't mind sharing their experiences please pm or comment here. I could really use the help.

Thank you, BB

 

[FireKrystals]

In my opinion, if she is not comfortable with it moving forward from what was previously agreed,a new agreement needs to be discussed. In any relationship, all the parties involved need to know what all the others think and feel and lines need to be set. Total open communication and agreement between all is needed, otherwise jealousy, distrust,and hurt will breed. I think the three of them need to sit down and discuss exactly what they want, need, and expect and be on the same wavelength. If they can't do it nicely, maybe a mediator should get involved. That is my advice to bring to her. A sit down with her, the guy, and the play toy and an "airing out"if you will

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

BonBon I agree there eventually needs to be a sit down discussion between all three of the participants.

However, prior to that sub#1 needs to get her Dom to sit down with just her and fully explain to her exactly where he thinks she will stand within the new relationship and how the whole thing will work. Once they reach an agreement then would be the time to have the three way discussion to make sure there is no disagreement or misunderstanding between the three.

Mike

 

[BonBon1976]

In my opinion, if she is not comfortable with it moving forward from what was previously agreed,a new agreement needs to be discussed. In any relationship, all the parties involved need to know what all the others think and feel and lines need to be set. Total open communication and agreement between all is needed, otherwise jealousy, distrust,and hurt will breed. I think the three of them need to sit down and discuss exactly what they want, need, and expect and be on the same wavelength. If they can't do it nicely, maybe a mediator should get involved. That is my advice to bring to her. A sit down with her, the guy, and the play toy and an "airing out"if you will

Hi,thank you for your response- yes they had discussed the situation and she had met the other lady. BUT at the time is was supposed to end at a certain point and a bunch of titles were thrown around (number one, main partner, top, bottom etc etc) and she seemed to be ok with it.

I have tried to tell her in a gentle way that she needs to sit down and talk to him, not when she is upset but when she is calm and can be rational. However like any relationship her feelings are involved and I don't know how to tell her what the "poly" thing should be. I think the jealousy is coming from her inexperience and some insecurity. I will take this advice and share it with her.
**I realise to a certain extent these things are different for each and every relationship.

BB

 

[BonBon1976]

BonBon I agree there eventually needs to be a sit down discussion between all three of the participants.

However, prior to that sub#1 needs to get her Dom to sit down with just her and fully explain to her exactly where he thinks she will stand within the new relationship and how the whole thing will work. Once they reach an agreement then would be the time to have the three way discussion to make sure there is no disagreement or misunderstanding between the three.

Mike

Thank you for the response, great advice. I agree and hope they can sit down again and come to some agreement now that things have changed. Hopefully they can make this work and I will pass this along as well.

BB

 

[knot_sweet]

Is your friend also involved in BDSM with her husband?
If she's not then that does raise some questions about whether there is some extra, unexpected emotional attachment that has come about from her husband playing outside the marriage.
BDSM can be quite emotionally as well as physically intensive and sometimes it can be easy to cross a million lines before you know it.
If she is involved in BDSM with her husband, perhaps she's feeling a little left out or even worried that her husband might like the other lady's submissive style better than hers.
Insecurity in new poly relationships is common, and the only way to deal with it is open communication between all parties.

I was involved in a poly relationship, and one of the things I found hardest in the begining and towards the end was the insecurity. Not that my partner didn't love me or care about me, but that I might be lacking somehow compared to the other women in his life. It didn't help that he kept his relationships very very private. I didn't fel like I could talk to him about the other women in his life. That's one of the man reasons I ended up leaving.

I don't know if that's helpful at all or not, but I do hope your friend will be ok.

 

[Loverskitten]

Often the fantasy of such things is much better than the reality.
Maybe poly isn't for your friend at all. Maybe she was only doing it to please him. She can continue, but it probably won't get easier, especially if he's already crossing lines.

Personally, I don't think it makes one "insecure" if they don't want to watch their man fuck another woman.

Just a thought.

 

[Bramblethorn]

She is in a relationship where she is considered the main partner, there is another lady that is on the outskirts of the relationship - a play partner if you will. She is having a hard time finding her way through being ok with the playing moving further along than what was originally discussed.

I feel like the man in the relationship - who I have to say has always been upfront with her- is sort of enjoying the jealousy and not helping her through it as well as he could be. Either because he enjoys the feeling that she is jealous of him or he just isn't good at explaining things to her.

So if there is anyone on here in a successful poly relationship, that doesn't mind sharing their experiences please pm or comment here. I could really use the help.

I've been in a mostly-successful poly relationship for somewhere over ten years, FWIW...

Like Loverskitten said, some people simply aren't suited for poly. It doesn't make them bad people or less "evolved", it's just a matter of "people are different". Unfortunately not everybody figures this out before getting into a poly situation - I've seen people who had convinced themselves intellectually that poly made sense, and couldn't admit to themselves that emotionally they weren't okay with it. ("Oh, sure, I'm fine with you going out with X... only today's not good... tomorrow's my birthday... Tuesday I was hoping we could see a movie together, just the two of us... Wednesday would be good, oh wait, that's when your study group meets. Pity your calendar's so full, hey?")

That said, even when people are emotionally suited to poly, dishonesty will make anybody feel insecure and uncomfortable. The emphasis should not be on what he actually did, but on the fact that he broke an agreement.

 

[the captians wench]

Just like any relationship, some times it evolves into something you weren't expecting. That's the time to renegotiate the situation.

When I became involved with a couple, it was clear from the beginning that if at any time the wife was uncomfortable everything would stop. I also had certain rights that I could expect. For example, if I was jealous for some reason, that was mostly on me to handle, I was free to talk about it, but I knew there were going to be limits on my comfort from them, but if she was jealous, he would pour a lot more energy into making her comfortable but again, it was ultimately up to her to deal with her jealousy.

But all poly relationships are different. Some work on a #1, #2 status, and others there is no "primary" relationship.

If she can't talk it out, there will always be problems. It is her responsibility to say "hey, I'm not comfortable with this" in a non confronting way.

It has been my experience though that putting limitations on outside relationships doesn't always work. And once communication breaks down it can turn into a very ugly beast.

 

[Netzach]

What wenchie said. Totally. Relationships are different, this is why I think my nest of iniquity works:

Fucking/SM/Sexuality is not a game of croquet with genteel rules you can pull out of context. You cannot make deals with people on how they're going to feel in the moment. If you can't handle the possibility that your partner of X years may come home and say "I'm sorry but this great new thing is where I should be now, it's over..." then you are not cut out for opening your relationship. I think. Frankly everyone should be capable of handling that possibility period, but I'm pretty ruthless about relationships and reality. Rules have never stopped this from happening in the course of humanity.

To me, if you have to "score" what your partner can and can't do or feel, you're probably not cut out for opening your relationship.

There's nothing insecure about not wanting to watch your man fuck another woman. There IS something insecure about saying it's OK when it's killing you inside just to keep him at any cost. JMO.

You can't MAKE people do things. He's going to do whatever he's going to do, and that includes cheat if/when he feels walls closing in so tight that he can't breathe if he's found this great new thing and she suddenly pulls the plug on it and says "no you can't."

She has to decide whether the new givens are mostly good or mostly bad for her, and no one else.

If you're in a mostly good situation, you accept the other person AS THEY ARE. That's grown up love.

If you're in a mostly bad situation, you move on. It's been great, and you tried and tried, but you can't, sorry.

I do think communication is important, but not always the answer. Sometimes the answer is a serious tea time of the soul between you and yourself. This may be the first-line part of solving this.

Another thing: I was the jealous OMG DYING INSIDE party in a relationship with another woman. She had the insight to stick to her guns and be "I'm very sorry you're feeling that way, but this is how it is" about the whole thing. God I hated her for it, BUT...but...
it was only through being miserable for a short while that I decided to give up on being miserable, it was only through being jealous and figuring out for myself how stupid I was being (not because I was being jealous but because for me, personally, it was totally stupid.) It was NOT her job to salve my feelings by doing what I wanted, or by not-being herself. It was on me to grow the fuck up a little.

I don't think that life should always stay in people's comfort zones, and this is the way out-of-comfort-zone looks. If she HAD stopped to process my bad feelings and communicate and hand hold every second I never would have - grown the fuck up a little, actually.

Don't white-knight your friend at this time, yanno? I totally get that it's easy to do - I mean be supportive, but don't make up her mind for her that this guy is a shitheel. Ask her the "mostly good or mostly bad?" question if anything.

 

[BonBon1976]

Thank you all, some great advice again. I have copied and pasted a lot of the text to share with her.

These are just really great responses that are well thought out and I think they will all help her, so thank you all again for taking the time to post them. Thank you for the PM's too. Any more that get posted I will surely pass on.

BB

 

[BonBon1976]

Netzach

"Don't white-knight your friend at this time, yanno? I totally get that it's easy to do - I mean be supportive, but don't make up her mind for her that this guy is a shitheel. Ask her the "mostly good or mostly bad?" question if anything."
--------------------
YES! totally agree, I have been doing this. It is not my relationship, so I have kept my personal opinions of it out of the fray. This is why I asked for outside advice. I have just been pointing out that this is her relationship and she needs to talk to him more if she feels uncomfortable etc. I will admit I have mentioned that the way he keeps bringing up the other girl to her is a little inconsiderate- the timing and what he says about her- not the fact he talks about her at all.

Thanks again, BB

 

[the captians wench]

Netzach

"Don't white-knight your friend at this time, yanno? I totally get that it's easy to do - I mean be supportive, but don't make up her mind for her that this guy is a shitheel. Ask her the "mostly good or mostly bad?" question if anything."
--------------------
YES! totally agree, I have been doing this. It is not my relationship, so I have kept my personal opinions of it out of the fray. This is why I asked for outside advice. I have just been pointing out that this is her relationship and she needs to talk to him more if she feels uncomfortable etc. I will admit I have mentioned that the way he keeps bringing up the other girl to her is a little inconsiderate- the timing and what he says about her- not the fact he talks about her at all.

Thanks again, BB

Ya know, this brings to mind another point. It's been my experience that people in poly or open relationships tend to be side swiped by NRE (new relationship energy). They never expect it, it seems, but it's bound to come up.

You have a new plaything or girl friend or boyfriend or what ever the relationship is, the newness of it all makes it exciting. You go through all of the wooing stages, just as you have in any other relationship. And if you''re not the one having all of these "OMG this is so wonderful" feelings, you see it all happening and you think "well he doesn't text me all day long, and he doesn't hold hands with me when we go shopping" and it hurts. It's going to hurt. It will eventually pass, but in the mean time you have to decide if you can manage the hurt or not.

Think about it, if you had something really great going on in your life, wouldn't you want to share that with your partner?

Also, it's very hard to close the door once you've opened it. Usually a lot easier than it was to open it in the first place.

 

[BiBunny]

First of all, everything Netzach said.

Ok, now I'm going to take a totally different tack than pretty much everybody when it comes to the subject of poly relationships, and it may piss some people off. If it does, so be it.

I think that if you (general) have to stick that number one, number two, "I'm more important than you and always will be, ne-ne-na-ne-ne" bullshit into any poly relationship, then you do NOT need to be doing it. It's not the relationship Olympics, where someone has to get the gold, someone has to get the silver, someone has to get the bronze, and so on. You are dealing with real goddamn people with real goddamn feelings. How would you feel if you were being constantly reminded that you'll always come in second place? How would you feel if you always had a "You're not really important" sign hanging over your head?

Once you agree that you will do the poly thing, I also think it's selfish for you to decide to back out of it at a later date. It's not like deciding you don't want to eat Italian for dinner anymore. Other people are not your sex dolls, to be picked up and put down as you please. Knowing that you could be ousted at any moment, should some jealous asshole change his/her mind about whether or not you're "allowed" (what a fucking word) into the relationship, does not make for a stable, secure, and happy relationship.

Again, how would you feel if someone did that shit to you? Like Netz says, if you can't handle the heat, don't go in the kitchen to begin with. Once you're there, it's WRONG to trifle with someone else's feelings because you're having second thoughts about what you agreed to do in the first place.

The Golden Rule works just as well for poly relationships as it does for anything else.

 

[the captians wench]

Bunny, I just want to snuggle you up.

 

[subwannabe]

I can't help but think she is doing this more for him than for her. In my opinion, if that is the case, this is not going to work out long term. She needs to want to do this because she wants to do it, not because she wants to do it to make him happy.

 

[BonBon1976]

A lot of great ideas etc again, thank you all.

However I have to disagree that once you say you will try something new in a relationship, you are committed to stay in that relationship if you are unhappy. I think that this and other relationships are only as good as the commitment of all parties. I doubt any of the parties would be happy knowing one of the others was unhappy or want them to stay in that relationship if they were. It all comes down to everyone's personal opinions and I am glad that the people here are willing to share theirs. You all have been a big help already in relationships (poly or not) 101

BB

 

[BiBunny]

A lot of great ideas etc again, thank you all.

However I have to disagree that once you say you will try something new in a relationship, you are committed to stay in that relationship if you are unhappy. I think that this and other relationships are only as good as the commitment of all parties. I doubt any of the parties would be happy knowing one of the others was unhappy or want them to stay in that relationship if they were. It all comes down to everyone's personal opinions and I am glad that the people here are willing to share theirs. You all have been a big help already in relationships (poly or not) 101

BB

If someone's unhappy in a relationship, they're not bound to stay in it. However, if they're unhappy in a poly relationship that they agreed to, it's unfair to boot the third party out because somebody's got a bug up their ass, IMO. If you don't like it, YOU leave. Don't force someone else out because it wasn't what you thought it'd be.

/soapbox

 

[Netzach]

First of all, everything Netzach said.

Ok, now I'm going to take a totally different tack than pretty much everybody when it comes to the subject of poly relationships, and it may piss some people off. If it does, so be it.

I think that if you (general) have to stick that number one, number two, "I'm more important than you and always will be, ne-ne-na-ne-ne" bullshit into any poly relationship, then you do NOT need to be doing it. It's not the relationship Olympics, where someone has to get the gold, someone has to get the silver, someone has to get the bronze, and so on. You are dealing with real goddamn people with real goddamn feelings. How would you feel if you were being constantly reminded that you'll always come in second place? How would you feel if you always had a "You're not really important" sign hanging over your head?

Once you agree that you will do the poly thing, I also think it's selfish for you to decide to back out of it at a later date. It's not like deciding you don't want to eat Italian for dinner anymore. Other people are not your sex dolls, to be picked up and put down as you please. Knowing that you could be ousted at any moment, should some jealous asshole change his/her mind about whether or not you're "allowed" (what a fucking word) into the relationship, does not make for a stable, secure, and happy relationship.

Again, how would you feel if someone did that shit to you? Like Netz says, if you can't handle the heat, don't go in the kitchen to begin with. Once you're there, it's WRONG to trifle with someone else's feelings because you're having second thoughts about what you agreed to do in the first place.

The Golden Rule works just as well for poly relationships as it does for anything else.

Agree. Could not agree more. You have two choices in a relationship - stay or go.

Every single person gets to decide this. (I'm not going to get into TPE here)

You cannot decide to boot some other person. You can WISH you had that power of ultimatum, but always expect an ultimatum to go the other way on you. Always. This is not an episode of survivor.

 

[Netzach]

I can't help but think she is doing this more for him than for her. In my opinion, if that is the case, this is not going to work out long term. She needs to want to do this because she wants to do it, not because she wants to do it to make him happy.

I do a lot of things purely to make my partner happy that drive me up a wall. Like I said, grown up love. I do not do things that I feel truly diminish me as a person and make it hard to look in a mirror, that's the thing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think that if you (general) have to stick that number one, number two, "I'm more important than you and always will be, ne-ne-na-ne-ne" bullshit into any poly relationship, then you do NOT need to be doing it. It's not the relationship Olympics, where someone has to get the gold, someone has to get the silver, someone has to get the bronze, and so on. You are dealing with real goddamn people with real goddamn feelings. How would you feel if you were being constantly reminded that you'll always come in second place? How would you feel if you always had a "You're not really important" sign hanging over your head?

Agreed, with a caveat. Poly relationships often do require making choices between different partners' interests. Those choices usually WON'T prioritise all relationships equally, and for a lot of people it's helpful to understand this in advance rather than being blindsided when it happens. ("If X has to move away for work, I would move too" etc).

That said, "primary always takes precedence over secondary" is far too simplistic. If your live-in partner of 50 years is expecting you for a date night, and your girlfriend of 50 days is upset because her dad just died...

Once you agree that you will do the poly thing, I also think it's selfish for you to decide to back out of it at a later date. It's not like deciding you don't want to eat Italian for dinner anymore. Other people are not your sex dolls, to be picked up and put down as you please. Knowing that you could be ousted at any moment, should some jealous asshole change his/her mind about whether or not you're "allowed" (what a fucking word) into the relationship, does not make for a stable, secure, and happy relationship.

This does suck, but in some situations it's the least bad option.

I was in a relationship with a lady whose partner had originally agreed to poly on the (mistaken) assumption that he'd be getting most of the action. When things turned out different, he got very insecure about it. He repeatedly told everybody involved that he was ABSOLUTElY FINE with his girlfriend seeing other people... but any time it happened, he turned into a seething ball of angst. I don't know if he ever deliberately sabotaged her relationships with others, but his subconscious did a good job of it.

My relationship with her gradually turned toxic, and fell apart in spectacular fashion. He wasn't the only reason for that, but it was certainly a major factor. If he'd simply said "I'm sorry, I thought I was going to be okay with this but I'm not" about three years earlier... I would have been upset, but in the long run it would have been a lot less painful. As it is, I'm still dealing with the fallout four years after that relationship finally ended.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If someone's unhappy in a relationship, they're not bound to stay in it. However, if they're unhappy in a poly relationship that they agreed to, it's unfair to boot the third party out because somebody's got a bug up their ass, IMO. If you don't like it, YOU leave. Don't force someone else out because it wasn't what you thought it'd be.

That's good as a general principle, but sometimes life is complicated.

eg: A and B have been living together for ten years. B is unable to work due to health issues, and is dependent on A for financial support etc. B starts up a long-distance relationship with C... and then A discovers that he's not comfortable with poly after all.

In that situation, all possible outcomes suck, but from where I stand "B and C break up" is probably the least sucky.

 

[CutieMouse]

I do a lot of things purely to make my partner happy that drive me up a wall. Like I said, grown up love. I do not do things that I feel truly diminish me as a person and make it hard to look in a mirror, that's the thing.

Yup; grown up love.

I stumbled across something a month or so ago, that was more of a gut punch than I expected; one of those intellect and emotion do not agree moments. So I said something, acknowledged the momentary insecurity, and made a point to say I knew it was my shit to deal with. (But wow was that a major "girl moment." LOL)

On his end, there was an equally surprising "gut punch" for feeling like he failed to protect me from unintended pain, and recognition that he needed to deal with his [emotional] shit over the situation, as well.

I'm not replaceable; neither is he. In spite of a few challenges, the good still far far outweighs the bad. If/when that balance shifts, we'll talk about it and find some sort of resolution, even if it means ending things. Life's too short, ya know?

 

[BiBunny]

That's good as a general principle, but sometimes life is complicated.

eg: A and B have been living together for ten years. B is unable to work due to health issues, and is dependent on A for financial support etc. B starts up a long-distance relationship with C... and then A discovers that he's not comfortable with poly after all.

In that situation, all possible outcomes suck, but from where I stand "B and C break up" is probably the least sucky.

Maybe if B's life were so inextricably tangled up with A's, then perhaps B should've thought about that before he/she started the whole relationship with C thing?

That's the point I'm trying to make. Too many people jump into this shit without thinking or by thinking, "Well, if I don't like it, I'll just tell my partner to dump the other person." But, again, we're not talking about throwing out an old t-shirt you don't wear anymore. We're talking about real people with real feelings, and Mr. and Ms. "ZOMG, I HAVE TO BE PRIMARY!!!!" tend to forget that and think it's ok to be a selfish cunt and shit all over everybody else because he/she is uncomfortable.

 

[desertslave]

I can't help but think she is doing this more for him than for her. In my opinion, if that is the case, this is not going to work out long term. She needs to want to do this because she wants to do it, not because she wants to do it to make him happy.

This!!! If she's not into poly (and not everyone is, clearly) it's simply not going to work. However, sometimes you really don't know until you try, so IMO there's no obligation to continue the new relationship or even the existing relationship if it's not working out.

The other aspect that I just have to jump up and down on is open, steady, honest communication. In a poly relationship it's absolutely essential that everyone be up front about what they might expect or anticipate getting out of the relationship, where the priorities are, what limits there are (another thing that's problematic until it's been tried), and what's going on. Sucking it up and/or sulking to oneself can be deadly to a poly relationship. If D/s is involved sometimes there needs to be a time set aside to be allowed to speak freely without the usual sense of control or...obligation in place.