Pixar

[Safe_Bet]

I've seen every one of the aforementioned 'cartoons' (I prefer 'Animated Features', but I digress) plus dozens more and enjoyed them all thoroughly. Comparing Pixar with Dreamworks fr' instance is comparing apples and oranges or rather comparing Jack Kirby's style to John Romita, Russ Heath or Steve Ditko's. They're in the same gente, but that's about it.

In re: 'Images' in animated features, never forget they're escapist fantasies, not indoctrination films to encourage feminist sensibilities or political correctness. They're fun and that's enough. All this 'body image', one's place in society and male oppression crap belongs somewhere else, not in animated features. They're meant to entertain.

Comic books and 'graphic novels' have already climbed on the PC bandwagon with minority, gay and 'strong women' characters which hasn't detracted from the story lines one iota, but a lot of them are aimed at teens and adults. I've seen children as young as 5 in animated feature audiences, let them have fun, not be indoctrinated in today's version of what's right and wrong about society.

But dude they already ARE being indoctrinated through those venues. It's just that you happen to agree with what was/is being produced so to you it's fine. For some of us have a few animated/cartoon/comic book heroines who didn't end up in the arms of a big brave man, marrying a freakin prince or always being the "helpless, screaming blonde getting carried away by the bad guy" would have been fantastic. You might call it PC but for me it would have been refreshing "equal time".

'Sides, how in the hell would it have hurt anybody if Wonder Woman would have been a way cool Amazon dyke instead of marrying some douche named Steve???

 

[PayDay]

Also pretty sick of people comparing it to 'How to train your Dragon' which was typical Dreamworks shit. And 'the hunger games' (ooh! Katniss had a bow and arrow, this new chick has a bow and arrow! BRAVE must be ripping it off!)

Pixar is quite good at what they do. I have always been a fan of Mosters, Inc., but I still think they pale in comparison to the 2d Don Bluth films.

Don't forget about 20th Century Fox Animation, they made Robots.

Also, the bow and arrow is a marketing technique when used in any form of media by a lead character. Period.

When used as a weapon by a character, it forces you to assume that they have the skill to accurately hit a target. This in turn makes you assume they have practiced in it, and have invested endless amounts of time in it's use and dedication.

Writing a lead character with a bow and arrow is simply a cheap way to show that they are special and dangerous while still holding on to an air of innocence since they are not covered in blood from hacking people up and not everyone can shoot a bow and arrow.

Not to mention, it is insanely easier to write a paragraph about slowly aiming a single arrow than it is to write a swordfight. Guaranteed time killer and padding to the writing.

For instance, let's use the Hunger Games: "I have hunted to survive my whole life, but since there are no guns, I use a bow and arrow to kill things and feed my family. This in turn gives me a natural ability to kill everyone if I am 'accidentally' drawn into the hunger games, and you will belive this shitty plot more."

It's also a cheap way to make a non-dangerous character dangerous. For instance, the 'townsfolk army' of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Three cut scenes and they are deadly.

...and let's not forget the 'this situation is impossible but the bow and arrow will save me when I make an impossible shot" moment, which I guarentee you is in this Brave movie.

It's just a marketing tactic that simplifies writing at the same time, like setting an unchaste romance in Victorian times, or making the bad guy smoke, or using a homosexual male as a loving caring friend to the heartbroken female.

It's just the same old shit.

Oh, for Christ's sake, they're propaganda! Get over your bitterness at those who point this out. I mean, come on, Lovecraft, you can't have it both ways. Time and again you criticize rapes stories here--why? They're stories about fictional characters.

I totally agree with you, except for the 'blame the media for bad female role models' and that 'women have no role models' etc.

All Lovecraft is trying to say (I think) is: "Blame the parents, not the media the kids are watching."

It's madness to think that in a world where The Simpsons or Family Guy exists that a parent would naturally trust commercial animation to educate their child. If a parent was smart enough to show their kids some history (in print or video), female role models abound.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Pixar is quite good at what they do. I have always been a fan of Mosters, Inc., but I still think they pale in comparison to the 2d Don Bluth films.

Don't forget about 20th Century Fox Animation, they made Robots.

Also, the bow and arrow is a marketing technique when used in any form of media by a lead character. Period.

When used as a weapon by a character, it forces you to assume that they have the skill to accurately hit a target. This in turn makes you assume they have practiced in it, and have invested endless amounts of time in it's use and dedication.

Writing a lead character with a bow and arrow is simply a cheap way to show that they are special and dangerous while still holding on to an air of innocence since they are not covered in blood from hacking people up and not everyone can shoot a bow and arrow.

Not to mention, it is insanely easier to write a paragraph about slowly aiming a single arrow than it is to write a swordfight. Guaranteed time killer and padding to the writing.

For instance, let's use the Hunger Games: "I have hunted to survive my whole life, but since there are no guns, I use a bow and arrow to kill things and feed my family. This in turn gives me a natural ability to kill everyone if I am 'accidentally' drawn into the hunger games, and you will belive this shitty plot more."

It's also a cheap way to make a non-dangerous character dangerous. For instance, the 'townsfolk army' of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Three cut scenes and they are deadly.

...and let's not forget the 'this situation is impossible but the bow and arrow will save me when I make an impossible shot" moment, which I guarentee you is in this Brave movie.

It's just a marketing tactic that simplifies writing at the same time, like setting an unchaste romance in Victorian times, or making the bad guy smoke, or using a homosexual male as a loving caring friend to the heartbroken female.

It's just the same old shit.




I totally agree with you, except for the 'blame the media for bad female role models' and that 'women have no role models' etc.

All Lovecraft is trying to say (I think) is: "Blame the parents, not the media the kids are watching."

It's madness to think that in a world where The Simpsons or Family Guy exists that a parent would naturally trust commercial animation to educate their child. If a parent was smart enough to show their kids some history (in print or video), female role models abound.

I never noticed that before, and you are right, but I don't think you should just dismiss it as shit.

Just because something is a cliche, doesn't mean it's bad. Sometimes they become cliche's for a reason.

 

[PayDay]

Ugh. Masked Hatred. Booooooo.

But dude they already ARE being indoctrinated through those venues. It's just that you happen to agree with what was/is being produced so to you it's fine. For some of us have a few animated/cartoon/comic book heroines who didn't end up in the arms of a big brave man, marrying a freakin prince or always being the "helpless, screaming blonde getting carried away by the bad guy" would have been fantastic. You might call it PC but for me it would have been refreshing "equal time".

'Sides, how in the hell would it have hurt anybody if Wonder Woman would have been a way cool Amazon dyke instead of marrying some douche named Steve???

For one, if Diana of Themyscira married an Amazon and it somehow made it to print, William Marston would have been drug out into the street, flogged, tarred, feathered, and then shot before being disposed of in the nearest recepticle. The building that housed Detective Comics would have been set ablaze shortly thereafter. Society as a whole, at that time, would have never accepted it, and in turn, there would not be the character there is today.

The character is written as a boost towards equality, and a slap in the face to ignorance. Show some respect.

Second, Wonder Woman never married Steve Trevor in the original story line. All she ever did was save his whiney ass until he 'acted like a typical male' and then got killed.

...and then who did she go for first? Hmmm? Superman, and he wasn't even human, nor her boss in the Justice League.

Steve Trevor was written to show the opposite points of view on equality between men and woman, often illustrating the worst case scenario of inequality. He was neccessary to educate people on the strength of the opposite sex.

Check the back issues, Wonder Woman has never, ever given up one sliver of an iota of strength towards a man unless it was for the sake of her country, or unless a man snucked her, because that's the type of character she is written to be. In comic book form, she has never been weak, or even put in a spot other than 'Diana is in charge of the situation and one of the most powerful humans on Earth.'

So what is the harm "if Wonder Woman would have been a way cool Amazon dyke instead of marrying some douche named Steve???"

I'd say: "Quite a lot."

Art imitates life. There are still more men that like women, and more women that like men. There are still more heterosexual couples that want to get married than any other form of life parnership.

Narrowing the audience for something as groundbreaking as Wonder Woman based on sexual orientation would be stupid.

I think many of the people on this board should stop yelling a metaphor of "Everyone in the universe needs to stop buying and owning dogs or else! Because I am allergic and do not like them!" and learn to be a little more patient with the majority.

The acceptance of Human equality has steadily increased over time in our society. Be patient, and continue the work of education.

 

[PayDay]

I never noticed that before, and you are right, but I don't think you should just dismiss it as shit.

Just because something is a cliche, doesn't mean it's bad. Sometimes they become cliche's for a reason.

You shouldn't assume that that has not occured to me.

 

[Safe_Bet]

For one, if Diana of Themyscira married an Amazon and it somehow made it to print, William Marston would have been drug out into the street, flogged, tarred, feathered, and then shot before being disposed of in the nearest recepticle. The building that housed Detective Comics would have been set ablaze shortly thereafter. Society as a whole, at that time, would have never accepted it, and in turn, there would not be the character there is today.

The character is written as a boost towards equality, and a slap in the face to ignorance. Show some respect.

Second, Wonder Woman never married Steve Trevor in the original story line. All she ever did was save his whiney ass until he 'acted like a typical male' and then got killed.

...and then who did she go for first? Hmmm? Superman, and he wasn't even human, nor her boss in the Justice League.

Steve Trevor was written to show the opposite points of view on equality between men and woman, often illustrating the worst case scenario of inequality. He was neccessary to educate people on the strength of the opposite sex.

Check the back issues, Wonder Woman has never, ever given up one sliver of an iota of strength towards a man unless it was for the sake of her country, or unless a man snucked her, because that's the type of character she is written to be. In comic book form, she has never been weak, or even put in a spot other than 'Diana is in charge of the situation and one of the most powerful humans on Earth.'

So what is the harm "if Wonder Woman would have been a way cool Amazon dyke instead of marrying some douche named Steve???"

I'd say: "Quite a lot."

Art imitates life. There are still more men that like women, and more women that like men. There are still more heterosexual couples that want to get married than any other form of life parnership.

Narrowing the audience for something as groundbreaking as Wonder Woman based on sexual orientation would be stupid.

I think many of the people on this board should stop yelling a metaphor of "Everyone in the universe needs to stop buying and owning dogs or else! Because I am allergic and do not like them!" and learn to be a little more patient with the majority.

The acceptance of Human equality has steadily increased over time in our society. Be patient, and continue the work of education.

"Be patient" is the banner catchphrase of straight/white/male entitlement, dude.

Why the fuck do I have to wait patiently for some entitled str8 white man to give me the equality that is my RIGHT and which he has always enjoyed?

"Be patient" is nothing less than code speak for "When we damn well feel like giving it to you!" (which is usually never BTW, until we drag your asses into court and demand it!).

 

[Cruel2BKind]

To quote the King...

"We don't want freedom fed to us in teaspoons over the next, one hundred and fifty years!"


But also, Wonder woman in the early years was a contradiction. When she joined the justice league they made her a secretary.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/super secretary 1.jpg


Not only could she not go to war with them, but she couldn't continue her secret-identity job as a nurse, which saved actual lives and everything.

 

[lance gt]

"Be patient" is the banner catchphrase of straight/white/male entitlement, dude.

Why the fuck do I have to wait patiently for some entitled str8 white man to give me the equality that is my RIGHT and which he has always enjoyed?

"Be patient" is nothing less than code speak for "When we damn well feel like giving it to you!" (which is usually never BTW, until we drag your asses into court and demand it!).

Fuck you, you fucking dyke. I have had enough of this str8 white male bullshit. No mention of str8 white females, or str8 black males or females. They make decisions too, but it's just white males you go after. Get off your pathetic soapbox and accept facts as they are. Change comes slow and never easily. People don't like change and the last thing they like is a mouthy cunt like you putting everyone down.

You're an extremely small minority making a shitload of noise, that everyone blocks out. You want to be heard and respected and given equality? Then learn to stop biting the hand that feeds you and learn to teach them how to accept it.

I support the GLBT movement and know the difficulties faced by them. People like you make the cause harder to accept, because of your hatred for men. Suck it up, sunshine, you wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for us, so fuck off.

Want to know the difference between a lesbian and a dyke? A lesbian has made a decision about her sexuality and accepts everyone and their choices. A dyke feels all men should be castrated. or kept for sperm production and hate them for who they are. Sound familiar, Dyke?

 

[PennLady]

Why the fuck do I have to wait patiently for some entitled str8 white man to give me the equality that is my RIGHT and which he has always enjoyed?

Then go write your own comic book (or novel or whatever).

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Safe_bet?

I think you would like Cyber-six. Give it a look-see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3eQrxlU-pw

 

[Safe_Bet]

Fuck you, you fucking dyke. I have had enough of this str8 white male bullshit. No mention of str8 white females, or str8 black males or females. They make decisions too, but it's just white males you go after. Get off your pathetic soapbox and accept facts as they are. Change comes slow and never easily. People don't like change and the last thing they like is a mouthy cunt like you putting everyone down.

You're an extremely small minority making a shitload of noise, that everyone blocks out. You want to be heard and respected and given equality? Then learn to stop biting the hand that feeds you and learn to teach them how to accept it.

I support the GLBT movement and know the difficulties faced by them. People like you make the cause harder to accept, because of your hatred for men. Suck it up, sunshine, you wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for us, so fuck off.

Want to know the difference between a lesbian and a dyke? A lesbian has made a decision about her sexuality and accepts everyone and their choices. A dyke feels all men should be castrated. or kept for sperm production and hate them for who they are. Sound familiar, Dyke?

Then go write your own comic book (or novel or whatever).

My, my, my... How very condecendingly entitled white/str8/male (at least one of you) of you both.

BTW, "bites the hand that feeds you"? Seriously??? Do you have ANY idea how dispicably condecending saying demeaning tripe like that is? Kinda blows your wannabe metro, sensitive man thing right out of the water, dude and replaces it with scummy chauvinistic, homophobic pig.

 

[PennLady]

My, my, my... How very condecendingly entitled white/str8/male (at least one of you) of you both.

I'm female.

My point was, if you don't like what's out there, then go create what it is you want. Got that advice in my Science Fiction class in college, and it's pretty good stuff, I think.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

My, my, my... How very condecendingly entitled white/str8/male (at least one of you) of you both.

BTW, "bites the hand that feeds you"? Seriously??? Do you have ANY idea how dispicably condecending saying demeaning tripe like that is? Kinda blows your wannabe metro, sensitive man thing right out of the water, dude and replaces it with scummy chauvinistic, homophobic pig.

Poke a fluffy puppy hard enough and he'll bite and growl. You should be worried about the big dogs, like LJ

http://www.puppy-training-solutions.com/image-files/growling-dog1-e.jpg

http://lifeasahuman.com/files/2010/05/aggress1.jpg

 

[lance gt]

My, my, my... How very condecendingly entitled white/str8/male (at least one of you) of you both.

BTW, "bites the hand that feeds you"? Seriously??? Do you have ANY idea how dispicably condecending saying demeaning tripe like that is? Kinda blows your wannabe metro, sensitive man thing right out of the water, dude and replaces it with scummy chauvinistic, homophobic pig.

And who do you think cares what you have to say? Come and ask all the str8 white males to accept you and your bullshit and see what they say. No one in their right mind will ever agree with anything you have to say and tell you where to go.

It doesn't matter what topic the thread is about, you invariably turn it into your own soapbox to bash men, str8 white men to be exact. Want equality in the world, be a human being first. People generally accept their own, before they accept an outsider.

Want to be part of the big picture, stop throwing paint on the canvas and ruining it.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Poke a fluffy puppy hard enough and he'll bite and growl. You should be worried about the big dogs, like LJ

http://www.puppy-training-solutions.com/image-files/growling-dog1-e.jpg

http://lifeasahuman.com/files/2010/05/aggress1.jpg

Nope. Even poked fluffy puppies don't respond to comments like I made to PayDay with ad homenim attacks like "Fuck you, you fucking dyke" and by mouthing condecending shit like "don't bite the hand that feeds you" like gays, people of color and women are some kind of inferior animal.

Nope, at best he's a homophobic, racist misgnomist in sheep's clothing.

 

[lance gt]

Nope. Even poked fluffy puppies don't respond to comments like I made to PayDay with ad homenim attacks like "Fuck you, you fucking dyke" and by mouthing condecending shit like "don't bite the hand that feeds you" like gays, people of color and women are some kind of inferior animal.

Nope, at best he's a homophobic, racist misgnomist in sheep's clothing.

Don't like it, grow a fucking dick then. Till then, shut the fuck up and stick your face back in some pussy. No one gives a shit about you. You speak like you're the national spokeswoman for lesbians everywhere. Guess what, they think you're a miserabe cunt. I just talked to my neighbour's daughter, who is a confirmed lesbian and her parents fly the GLBT flag alonside the Canadian flag. I told her about the things you go on about and even she said you're a fucking dyke and a disgrace to their cause. It's bitches like you who make it hard to get accepted and given what they ask for. As for your rights, you haven't got them, because you haven't presented a good enough reason to those in power and it isn't the str9 white male.

You're a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging dyke, nothing more. Go male bash somewhere else, cuz sunshine, you ain't making any friends here. BTW, the people who are making sure you have all those benefits you collect, are str8 white males and maybe you can see past your shit and realize that they are feeding you.

 

[Safe_Bet]

BTW, the people who are making sure you have all those benefits you collect, are str8 white males and maybe you can see past your shit and realize that they are feeding you.

Wow. Just wow.

I'm saving this... Just in case I ever need to show somebody what a bigoted asshole sounds like.

(BTW, I believe that you talked to your "fictional lesbian neighbor" about me almost as much as I believe SR really flew super secret spy planes. = you're both full of shit!).

 

[lance gt]

Wow. Just wow.

I'm saving this... Just in case I ever need to show somebody what a bigoted asshole sounds like.

(BTW, I believe that you talked to your "fictional lesbian neighbor" about me almost as much as I believe SR really flew super secret spy planes. = you're both full of shit!).

Believe what you want. Truth is the truth. You're a man-hating dyke and have issues with them, plain and simple. Even those that try and support you, you turn against them and wonder why you get no where.

Bigoted? Look who's talking about bigotry. Fucking hypocrite.

And just so we're clear, I think you're reprehensible for using Suzy's AV. She was a lovely person, who was well liked by pretty well everyone. All you've done is come in and disgrace her with how you act. She never acted like you in any way and never had issues with men. All you've done is bring shame to her memory. I wonder how proud she would be of you, coming in here and trashing all her friends? How very selfish and ignorant of you.

 

[lance gt]

As far as Disney/Pixar movies go, I still hold Toy Story as one of my faves. The characters were well played and for being their first, they did a damn good job on the animation.

 

[PennLady]

As far as Disney/Pixar movies go, I still hold Toy Story as one of my faves. The characters were well played and for being their first, they did a damn good job on the animation.

They did. I keep thinking I should watch The Incredibles again. I liked it on the first viewing, but it wasn't quite what I expected, so I should watch it again. As I should so many movies, animated or not.

 

[Derroreaper]

I think I liked WALL-E best, but I love things with a Sci-Fi theme

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I think I liked WALL-E best, but I love things with a Sci-Fi theme

I just watched that a few days ago!

I cried... I cried like a goddamn baby.

 

[lance gt]

I just watched that a few days ago!

I cried... I cried like a goddamn baby.

Damn, if Babe doesn't do that to me. It's that final scene where the crowd has mocked the hell out of Farmer Hoggit for using "Pig" as his entry. That moment when the gate clicks and the crowd cheers, gets me everytime. That'll do Pig, that'll do.

 

[PennLady]

I think I liked WALL-E best, but I love things with a Sci-Fi theme

WALL*E is wonderful, and another one I should see again. I think I liked the first half or so better (the on-earth stuff), but all around it was fun.

The movie that made me cry (really, just the one) was Whale Rider.

Damn, if Babe doesn't do that to me. It's that final scene where the crowd has mocked the hell out of Farmer Hoggit for using "Pig" as his entry. That moment when the gate clicks and the crowd cheers, gets me everytime. That'll do Pig, that'll do.

Babe is a great movie, too.

We have a collection of movies from Studio Ghibli, the Japanese studio that has put out Miyazaki's movies (Spirited Away, My Neighbor Totoro and more). There is a movie in there called Grave of the Fireflies which I cannot bring myself to watch. (Ebert has listed it as one of his Great Movies.) It's about a boy trying to survive with his little sister in WWII Japan.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

WALL*E is wonderful, and another one I should see again. I think I liked the first half or so better (the on-earth stuff), but all around it was fun.

The movie that made me cry (really, just the one) was Whale Rider.



Babe is a great movie, too.

We have a collection of movies from Studio Ghibli, the Japanese studio that has put out Miyazaki's movies (Spirited Away, My Neighbor Totoro and more). There is a movie in there called Grave of the Fireflies which I cannot bring myself to watch. (Ebert has listed it as one of his Great Movies.) It's about a boy trying to survive with his little sister in WWII Japan.

I saw whale rider too! And I cry like a baby at most of the studio ghibli movies. Except ponyo and kiki