Open Debate

[Guest]

It's all in the punctuation:

Open Deb. Ate.

Naughty neon.

 

[Guest]

Yet another profound thought from the unique mind of Neonlyte.

Reminds me of the old, old joke about why proctologist always liked to use DOS. Because everytime the booted-up, their computer screen would display C:enter, or in proctol talk, see colon, enter.

Rumple Foreskin

Rumple, you're delicious.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

How about a debate about civility? What it is, what it isn't, what is in-bounds, what is out. For example, I contend that it is not proper to assert that another debater is motivated by malice, and is not acting out of good will. I call it according the presumption of good will, and contend that it is the basis of all civil debate. Yes you are wrongheaded and what you argue for will quickly bring about the end of all civilization and decency, but I nevertheless proceed on the assumption that you say what you do because you sincerely want good things for all people.

Note: This is not to be confused with saying that an argument has merit because the speaker has good intentions. We all know what the road to hell is paved with.

However, without the presumption of good will, civil discourse is not possible. If I dismiss your position by asserting that you are evil and want to bring about suffering, you really have no response, except to kill me. OK, you probably won't go that far, but when groups get to that point and the matters of contention are core beliefs, that's where it ends up.

Finally, the presumption of good will is not granted to those who announce that they are motivated by malice - say, the KKK types who occassionally turn up here, or those whose stated goal is to kill all the Lulus.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Interpretation of words, a fascinating subject

You want to be talking with Charley H, then. The rest of us are too busy writing words to stop and interpret them....

 

[N0madS0uL]

Turns out that you're debating on what the subject should be. Great start.

One more thing... Ruck Fules. I mean Fuck Rules!

 

[Pure]

in a debate the alleged motives of the other guy are irrelevant; likewise 'presumptions' about his 'good will' or lack therof.

the kernel of any debate posting should go to the claims of the other, and not get involved in name calling, 'characterization' etc.

that said, it's almost irresistable NOT to draw attention to the 'bedfellows' of whomever one's arguing with, or to the predictable 'line' they are taking.
but, strictly speaking, the fact that Amicus agrees with the Pope on many issues such as women and sex, is irrelevant.

the problem is that the factual issues are often unclear or debatable. e.g. the 'facts' as to the consequences of lots of people owning handguns, or of a 'state' sponsored program to promote employment, 'reduce poverty,' etc., or, in the Pope's case, premarital chastity-- its alleged benefits.

politics, religion, sex, both involve interests (e.g. self interest) and therefore passions. while one hopes for politeness, it isn't always forthcoming. one is 'driven' to undesirable behavior. OR, as Roxanne put it recently (i'm paraphrasing) "I really dislike talking about the motives [character,etc.] of my opponent, but I'm going to make an exception this once."

===

incidentally, in the realm of political action, things are a little different. each side always *believes* its motives are noble, even if they are Nazi, led by Hitler.

it does little good to 'presume' good will, even if the opponent, in fact, aims at 'the good' as he sees it, e.g., in the case of Hitler, the betterment of the Aryan race.


what matter is the actions-- e.g. is this Hitler is liquidating certain 'enemies'?
in that case counter action or resistance is called for. sometimes lethal. so in a limited number of circumstances one may be called upon to 'kill' someone who has very fine motives indeed (love of country, family, etc).

 

[N0madS0uL]

Pure, you're so vain.

 

[cloudy]

Pure, you're so vain.

huh?

Pure is most certainly intelligent, but how you got "vain" out of that post is beyond me. You seem to be making some sort of connection that just isn't there.

There could be an argument made that "vain" is having two pictures of yourself in your sig.

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

Open debate

Are you open?

Or closed?

Are you open to new experiences, to new people?

Or are you content to stick with what and who you know?

Jeanne

 

[N0madS0uL]

huh?

Pure is most certainly intelligent, but how you got "vain" out of that post is beyond me. You seem to be making some sort of connection that just isn't there.

There could be an argument made that "vain" is having two pictures of yourself in your sig.

Do you know the meaning of the word "sarcasm"? If so, then you should've known that I was being sarcastic when I called Pure, "vain". Besides, that should've been a real "gimme" especially with the frog face with its tongue sticking out, right next to my post.

Be my guest and start arguing. Don't worry though. I won't put you on my ignore list. It's empty 'coz I don't even care what people think.

 

[cloudy]

Do you know the meaning of the word "sarcasm"? If so, then you should've known that I was being sarcastic when I called Pure, "vain". Besides, that should've been a real "gimme" especially with the frog face with its tongue sticking out, right next to my post.

Be my guest and start arguing. Don't worry though. I won't put you on my ignore list. It's empty 'coz I don't even care what people think.

over sensitive much?

I don't "argue" with people who are unarmed and unprepared, but thanks for the offer, anyway.

(btw: even as sarcasm, your post makes no sense. Just so you know)

 

[FatDino]

I sense a "debate" about to erupt.

 

[cloudy]

I sense a "debate" about to erupt.

Nah, not in the mood to make him run crying home to his mommy today. Too many other things to do.

 

[FatDino]

Nah, not in the mood to make him run crying home to his mommy today. Too many other things to do.

No fun. *pouts*

Hope everything's working fine for you, though.

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Are you open?

Or closed?

Are you open to new experiences, to new people?

Or are you content to stick with what and who you know?

Jeanne

In reality life is what we make of it and we can be as daring as the limitations of our cowardice.
In a cyber environment such as this we find wings and excerise our minds.

 

[Pure]

here's the question, then

if we're going to debate 'good manners' or 'civility', for this debate, do we have to have good manners and show civility?

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

if we're going to debate 'good manners' or 'civility', for this debate, do we have to have good manners and show civility?

A little order is needed rather than chaos. Other than that I seek no limitations, no enforcement of thought control.
I seek stimulation from fellow like-minded people who are willing to take their minds to the brink.

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

In reality life is what we make of it and we can be as daring as the limitations of our cowardice.
In a cyber environment such as this we find wings and excerise our minds.

Why should we have limits in real life?

Are those limits set externally by law, by society, by convention?

How far are we justified in challenging the limits constraining us?

Even in the cyber environment of Literotica we have limits set by the owners. We cannot portray underage sex, bestiality or necrophilia. We have debated those limits endlessly.

I would rather debate the limits set upon us by society and convention. How are those related to where we live?

We could not express ourselves as freely in Saudi Arabia, China, and many countries in Africa. Should we be grateful for the freedoms we have, or should we be fighting for more, and to extend our freedoms elsewhere, where the local mores would not support us?

Jeanne

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Why should we have limits in real life?

Are those limits set externally by law, by society, by convention?

How far are we justified in challenging the limits constraining us?

Even in the cyber environment of Literotica we have limits set by the owners. We cannot portray underage sex, bestiality or necrophilia. We have debated those limits endlessly.

I would rather debate the limits set upon us by society and convention. How are those related to where we live?

We could not express ourselves as freely in Saudi Arabia, China, and many countries in Africa. Should we be grateful for the freedoms we have, or should we be fighting for more, and to extend our freedoms elsewhere, where the local mores would not support us?

Jeanne

I have been fortunate to have travelled to China, USA and the middle east. The first thing I always do is to watch their tv, and read their newspapers (always available in propoganda english)
To see a different culture is an experience, to feel it is enlightenment. It allows you reflect upon your own upbringing.

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

I am fortunate enough to have lived in other countries.

The similarities were often deceptive. The local customs and culture accepted some things my current neighbours would find offensive, and the people of the other country were offended by things that are considered normal here.

Even within a country, county or community, different people have different tolerance levels. It is still not done to admit generally that one is a writer of erotica.

Jeanne

 

[Dar~]

Y'alls a buncha ign'nt fukers. dats all I b knowin'

 

[jomar]

if we're going to debate 'good manners' or 'civility', for this debate, do we have to have good manners and show civility?

Depends on which side your on.

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

Y'alls a buncha ign'nt fukers. dats all I b knowin'

Would you care to expand that to an intelligible form?

Jeanne

 

[jomar]

Y'alls a buncha ign'nt fukers. dats all I b knowin'

You wouldn't be Nipples Mcgee's alt would you?

 

[Dar~]

Would you care to expand that to an intelligible form?

Jeanne

Just that I think you guys are a bunch of highly educated and amazingly intellectual beings centered on finding truth and meaning behind the deeply rooted supposition of drivel spouted out at us through mass market media on a daily basis.

















That and I think this thread has become a bit insulting...