One Step Forward....Several Steps Back

[Dragonlipz]

Freedom is not free

just as love is not for sale, neither one can be bought nor sold, but freely given......I've worn the uniform, fired a shot in anger, and shed my blood for your right to believe what you want......

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

just as love is not for sale, neither one can be bought nor sold, but freely given......I've worn the uniform, fired a shot in anger, and shed my blood for your right to believe what you want......

And we all respect this. Or at least I do.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Nonsense. Does your equality require others to be censored, jailed, exiled to gulags? Does your equality require deprivation of the equal rights of others, or are some people more equal than most? Does your equality require a police state, or the intrusion of government tax collectors into the personal, private deals of one's finances and daily life?

If not, then how am I advocating selfishness? I want the same rights for all, including people who have my blood pressure going through the roof of late. Not just for me. I want the inalienable rights of which Jefferson spoke, which were written into the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States.

There? Simple enough for even the peasants with pitchforks to grasp what I meant by liberty trumping equality. I meant not deporting people to slave labor and imposing rationing, bread lines, secret police, censorship, show trials, etc. in the name of equality.

How is that oppressive of me?

What year are you living in?

I'll give you a hint; The only pitchforks in use in the USA at this time are in the hands of Green gardeners. The last show trial was Ken Starr pranging Clinton. The only lines for bread also include a line for a double mochalatte with soy milk.

Are you writing 1930 period thrillers these days?

or is this still about the IRS?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

What year are you living in?

I'll give you a hint; The only pitchforks in use in the USA at this time are in the hands of Green gardeners. The last show trial was Ken Starr pranging Clinton. The only lines for bread also include a line for a double mochalatte with soy milk.

Are you writing 1930 period thrillers these days?

or is this still about the IRS?

My point is that there is a slippery slope, and I refuse to bow to the herd, because if it is given all power, the Orwellian stuff is not far off. The IRS is actually just a pre-Orwellian instrument, but it could easily lead to something else.

And for the record, I'm writing futuristic dystopias a lot these days. Mostly because of an inherent awareness of the constant danger of potential tyranny and the wise saying that "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance".

The peasants with pitchforks bit is a reference to the recent bashing of those expressing a minority view here at the AH.

I don't know what a double mochalatte is, and I doubt that I want to. That whole expensive coffee culture is too rich for my blood. I'm far too much of a miser for that kind of thing.

And I would argue that the James Traficant trial was a sham, too. Just my view.

The herd that I worry is about often the same one that picks on all of us sexual deviants, including this bisexual male. So my argument was the opposite of an argument for more oppression. It's the religious right crowd who call homophobic plebiscites "freedom". I'm not like my minister friend Harry, who referred to the Supreme Court as "9 black-robed dictators". Know who your enemy is: it's not me. I'll thank you not to compare me to the neo-cons.

 

[cloudy]

Nonsense. Does your equality require others to be censored, jailed, exiled to gulags? Does your equality require deprivation of the equal rights of others, or are some people more equal than most? Does your equality require a police state, or the intrusion of government tax collectors into the personal, private deals of one's finances and daily life?

If not, then how am I advocating selfishness? I want the same rights for all, including people who have my blood pressure going through the roof of late. Not just for me. I want the inalienable rights of which Jefferson spoke, which were written into the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States.

There? Simple enough for even the peasants with pitchforks to grasp what I meant by liberty trumping equality. I meant not deporting people to slave labor and imposing rationing, bread lines, secret police, censorship, show trials, etc. in the name of equality.

How is that oppressive of me?

Peasant?

Fuck off, Sev. You're much closer to a peasant than I am. At least I'm educated and live in the real world.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Peasant?

Fuck off, Sev. You're much closer to a peasant than I am. At least I'm educated and live in the real world.

Hey, now. Calm down. It was a figure of speech. And a reference to the recent obsession with bashing anyone who disagrees with you.

You're taking it far too personally. And being far too patronizing and dismissive. Not even paying attention to what I actually posted, except for one isolated part.

 

[cloudy]

Hey, now. Calm down. It was a figure of speech. And a reference to the recent obsession with bashing anyone who disagrees with you.

You're taking it far too personally. And being far too patronizing and dismissive. Not even paying attention to what I actually posted, except for one isolated part.

I might believe that, except that you've called us "peasants" more times than I can remember in the last few days.

As if.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I might believe that, except that you've called us "peasants" more times than I can remember in the last few days.

As if.

Kinda like the way I've overused the word "Moron."

Except that-- I would never try to deny or soft-peddle my use of the word. I don't mean it as a figure of speech, I mean truly abysmally stupid people. I wouldn't lie about that.

It's been a tough week. Or two.

 

[cloudy]

Kinda like the way I've overused the word "Moron."

Except that-- I would never try to deny or soft-peddle my use of the word. I don't mean it as a figure of speech, I mean truly abysmally stupid people. I wouldn't lie about that.

It's been a tough week. Or two.

Indeed, but I refuse to let anyone or anything take away from the sheer joy right now.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Kinda like the way I've overused the word "Moron."

Except that-- I would never try to deny or soft-peddle my use of the word. I don't mean it as a figure of speech, I mean truly abysmally stupid people. I wouldn't lie about that.

It's been a tough week. Or two.

That's been the problem. The overuse of words like "moron", "ignorant", "juvenile", etc. People who disagree with you aren't necessarily stupid or immature or ignorant, which was my point in using the "peasants" comment. It was a dig at the bashing and name-calling done to intimidate dissent, what someone else called a "lynch mob" mentality of the liberal AH members, though not all.

I only use pejoratives to retaliate for their previous use by others. Sorry, but I don't approve of the bashing of the center-right minority here. I might disagree with Box now and then, but I refrain from personal smears and attacks on him, just as I usually do on you and Cloudy. That you haven't used similar self-restraint is what has prompted the "peasants with pitchforks" metaphor.

The fact that a simple, offhand remark made in support of gay rights would lead to accusations of being an elitist white male is a case in point. There was no justification for such attacks. And if they keep up, I may have to leave for a while, just to keep from saying something truly vicious to match what has been said about me. As it is, there are times when I feel like leaving the AH, when the recent lack of civility and personal smears against me and others has gotten out of hand.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's been the problem. The overuse of words like "moron", "ignorant", "juvenile", etc. People who disagree with you aren't necessarily stupid or immature or ignorant, which was my point in using the "peasants" comment. It was a dig at the bashing and name-calling done to intimidate dissent, what someone else called a "lynch mob" mentality of the liberal AH members, though not all.

I only use pejoratives to retaliate for their previous use by others. Sorry, but I don't approve of the bashing of the center-right minority here. I might disagree with Box now and then, but I refrain from personal smears and attacks on him, just as I usually do on you and Cloudy. That you haven't used similar self-restraint is what has prompted the "peasants with pitchforks" metaphor.

The fact that a simple, offhand remark made in support of gay rights would lead to accusations of being an elitist white male is a case in point. There was no justification for such attacks. And if they keep up, I may have to leave for a while, just to keep from saying something truly vicious to match what has been said about me. As it is, there are times when I feel like leaving the AH, when the recent lack of civility and personal smears against me and others has gotten out of hand.

Ah, but Box has demonstrated moronity, time and again. He has. it's not his opinions, but his hammer-headedness, obtuseness, and the one that makes me laugh and shake myhead and forgive him-- the way he can deny that he ever said something-- when that something is two posts up. Box is a bimbo. If he isn't a bimbo, he hasn't shown any signs of an IQ around here.


As for you, your simple offhand remark was waaaay too easy to misread. Too simple, and too offhand.
It is YOUR responsibility to be sure you are understood. Don't assume that anyone here can, or cares to, read in the missing words, or see your smiling face when they read. I'm not ordering you, my friend, I mean this as friendly words of advice, from someone who's been through this-- I've been chased off of forums in the past, for this exact reason. I'm just saying that your words are your responsibility, one of those freedom things.
And right now, you are coming off of a month of inserting your libertarian views into dem/rep discussions, regardless of how many people tell you they aren't pertinent. So it's possible that your social coin is a bit tarnished right now. Means you have to be extra-extra-carefully clear.

Yanno?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Ah, but Box has demonstrated moronity, time and again. He has. it's not his opinions, but his hammer-headedness, obtuseness, and the one that makes me laugh and shake myhead and forgive him-- the way he can deny that he ever said something-- when that something is two posts up. Box is a bimbo. If he isn't a bimbo, he hasn't shown any signs of an IQ around here.


Yanno?

I resent that. As everybody else here, I have opinions and I present them. I ty to make it clear that something is an opinion or a prediction, rather than a fact. I can also be somewhat stubborn if I believe I am right. When have I denied saying something when the comment is that recent? Sometimes I hedge by using words like "probably" or "maybe" or similar things. but I NEVER deny what I have said.

Frequently, when somebody says something about me such as you just did, I challenge them to point out the place, but they always refuse.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I resent that. As everybody else here, I have opinions and I present them. I ty to make it clear that something is an opinion or a prediction, rather than a fact. I can also be somewhat stubborn if I believe I am right. When have I denied saying something when the comment is that recent? Sometimes I hedge by using words like "probably" or "maybe" or similar things. but I NEVER deny what I have said.

Frequently, when somebody says something about me such as you just did, I challenge them to point out the place, but they always refuse.

EH, Box. You said that Obama was "probably" Muslim, and when people showed you that he wasn't, did you say; "Oh sorry, he isn't and I was wrong?"
No, you took refuge in your "probably" hedge. But you werent saying "Probably" with all of your smileys, you were trying to raise a panic.

Your stubbornness in being right leads you to focus on teensy things within your argument-- shitting out raisins, as the Germans say. I've often thought this attention and obsession with one detail at a time is the secret of a really good cunnilinguist. which is what earns you the bimbo rating from me.

When did you deny saying something? Wednesday. Why should I bother to find your prevarications? It's not my reputation, Box, it's yours. You defend it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

EH, Box. You said that Obama was "probably" Muslim, and when people showed you that he wasn't, did you say; "Oh sorry, he isn't and I was wrong?"
No, you took refuge in your "probably" hedge. But you werent saying "Probably" with all of your smileys, you were trying to raise a panic.

Your stubbornness in being right leads you to focus on teensy things within your argument-- shitting out raisins, as the Germans say. I've often thought this attention and obsession with one detail at a time is the secret of a really good cunnilinguist. which is what earns you the bimbo rating from me.

When did you deny saying something? Wednesday. Why should I bother to find your prevarications? It's not my reputation, Box, it's yours. You defend it.

When did I say that Obama was probably a Muslim. I know that some persons have said he is, and I have said there is some kernel of truth in what they say. I can probably prove that, if need be. I am well aware of his attendance in the same Christian Chicago church for about twenty years but, before that, while living in Indonesia, he was classified as Muslim and atended Muslim schools and even sometimes went to a mosque. That does not make him a Muslim, certainly not now, but is a kernel of tuth for those who say he is one.

If you are going to call somebody names, you should have facts to back up your allegations. You don't have to; you can practice McCarthyism, if that's what you prefer, but you should be able to support what you say.

ETA: Here is the kernel of truth that I mentioned.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/06/was_obama_a_muslim.html

Appaently, there is not as much as I thought, but there is a kernel.

 

[Stella_Omega]

When did I say that Obama was probably a Muslim. I know that some persons have said he is, and I have said there is some kernel of truth in what they say. I can probably prove that, if need be. I am well aware of his attendance in the same Christian Chicago church for about twenty years but, before that, while living in Indonesia, he was classified as Muslim and atended Muslim schools and even sometimes went to a mosque. That does not make him a Muslim, certainly not now, but is a kernel of tuth for those who say he is one.

If you are going to call somebody names, you should have facts to back up your allegations. You don't have to; you can practice McCarthyism, if that's what you prefer, but you should be able to support what you say

*is giggling uncontrollably*

You are too cute!

 

[Stella_Omega]

ETA: Here is the kernel of truth that I mentioned.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/06/was_obama_a_muslim.html

Appaently, there is not as much as I thought, but there is a kernel.

Apparently there is not even a kernel;

The Brown ad misses out key facts that cast a very different light on Obama's Muslim connections. At the Catholic school, he was required to participate in Catholic rituals and pray four times a day. Teachers quoted by the Chicago Tribune said that he was probably registered as a Muslim because this was the religion of his then-Indonesian step-father, Lolo Soetero. Like many Indonesians, Soetero was a rather lax Muslim who drank and did not abide by the strict tenets of the faith.

More importantly, the Brown ad attaches far too much importance to an entry in a ledger written under unknown circumstances more than 40 years ago. The Tribune report notes that the ledger entry was "rife with errors." It listed Obama as an Indonesian, gave an inaccurate name for his previous school, and made no mention of his mother. It is unclear who wrote the ledger entry, which can be viewed at the school but is unavailable on-line.

Honestly-- you're your own worst advocate.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101

ETA: Here is the kernel of truth that I mentioned.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-..._a_muslim.html

Appaently, there is not as much as I thought, but there is a kernel.

Apparently there is not even a kernel;

Quote:
The Brown ad misses out key facts that cast a very different light on Obama's Muslim connections. At the Catholic school, he was required to participate in Catholic rituals and pray four times a day. Teachers quoted by the Chicago Tribune said that he was probably registered as a Muslim because this was the religion of his then-Indonesian step-father, Lolo Soetero. Like many Indonesians, Soetero was a rather lax Muslim who drank and did not abide by the strict tenets of the faith.

More importantly, the Brown ad attaches far too much importance to an entry in a ledger written under unknown circumstances more than 40 years ago. The Tribune report notes that the ledger entry was "rife with errors." It listed Obama as an Indonesian, gave an inaccurate name for his previous school, and made no mention of his mother. It is unclear who wrote the ledger entry, which can be viewed at the school but is unavailable on-line.

Apparently there is not even a kernel;
Honestly-- you're your own worst advocate.

I said there was a kernel of truth, and there was. Obama was classified as a Muslim in the school he attended in Indonesia. It's a small kenel, but a kernel, nevertheless.

At no time have I ever said that Obama is or was a Muslim. I have said much more about his attendence at a Christian church in Chicago for twenty years, and what was preached to him there.

 

[sr71plt]

I said there was a kernel of truth, and there was. Obama was classified as a Muslim in the school he attended in Indonesia. It's a small kenel, but a kernel, nevertheless.

At no time have I ever said that Obama is or was a Muslim. I have said much more about his attendence at a Christian church in Chicago for twenty years, and what was preached to him there.

Bullshit, Box. You have floated innuendo frequently here hoping it will be taken as truth. Your technique is dispicable, and you've been called on it several times.

Your way out of this sewer is to just stop doing it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Bullshit, Box. You have floated innuendo frequently here hoping it will be taken as truth. Your technique is dispicable, and you've been called on it several times.

Your way out of this sewer is to just stop doing it.

Yeah. Box, what he said.

(although I call your technique moronic, more than despicable)

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I'm as educated as the next AH'er and I happily take on the title of 'Peasant' thank-you very much. And I have a selection of pitchforks!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm as educated as the next AH'er and I happily take on the title of 'Peasant' thank-you very much. And I have a selection of pitchforks!

Rediculous! Sev is attaching the "peasant' appelation to the group that is more educated and more carefully verbal, and less likely to fall for cheap emotive tricks. The opposite of a "peasant" in so many ways...

Like I said, pitchforks are luxury tools nowadays.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Rediculous! Sev is attaching the "peasant' appelation to the group that is more educated and more carefully verbal, and less likely to fall for cheap emotive tricks. The opposite of a "peasant" in so many ways...

Like I said, pitchforks are luxury tools nowadays.

I will admit that mine are British, hand forged and imported by Smith and Hawken . . .

 

[Boxlicker101]

EH, Box. You said that Obama was "probably" Muslim, and when people showed you that he wasn't, did you say; "Oh sorry, he isn't and I was wrong?"
No, you took refuge in your "probably" hedge. But you werent saying "Probably" with all of your smileys, you were trying to raise a panic.

Your stubbornness in being right leads you to focus on teensy things within your argument-- shitting out raisins, as the Germans say. I've often thought this attention and obsession with one detail at a time is the secret of a really good cunnilinguist. which is what earns you the bimbo rating from me.

When did you deny saying something? Wednesday. Why should I bother to find your prevarications? It's not my reputation, Box, it's yours. You defend it.

Okay, I have gone back and looked at all my posts since Monday. In none of them have I denied making a statement that I made earlier. I did admit that I was wrong in my election prediction, but I did not deny making that pediction.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay, I have gone back and looked at all my posts since Monday. In none of them have I denied making a statement that I made earlier. I did admit that I was wrong in my election prediction, but I did not deny making that pediction.

Bullshit, Box, you just did it two or three posts up from this one!

At no time have I ever said that Obama is or was a Muslim.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Bullshit, Box, you just did it two or three posts up from this one!

And that is the truth. At no time have I ever said that Obama is a Muslim. I have mentioned the possibility of it, but have also expressed doubt. I have said that others have said he was a Muslim, and I even pointed out how they might have developed that belief, but I have never expressed agreement with it.