Bi but...?

[TheExperimentalist]

Hmm, I'm thinking of my spouse's current total obsession with Elvis Presley. May seem silly, but it's a 'stone jones'. I can say,"Dang, I think I've heard that video clip of 'Love Me Tender' seventeen times now'." But why be snarky? This is her new friend and the friend makes her very happy. Still, I reserve the right to be puzzled by this new love. I guess maybe in the original post I was wondering how I, or someone like me who has been shedding some older ways, would react to a person I was falling for saying, "Hey, if you didn't know already, you should know I'm bisexual." And whether the me in the story I was writing would react to that in is as fucked up a way as some folks here have said I did. And that might be the end of that; but it might make a good story.

I believe you might be starting to get it. And yes, not only could I imagine someone whose understanding is incomplete in that way having a similar reaction to the initial thoughts you had here, I've SEEN it happen firsthand. Someone I know very well who came from the same sort of conservative upbringing I did found out the person they'd started dating was bi. Luckily, the person in question learned, grew, changed, and then realized that a lot of the things they took for granted about themselves had actually been bothering them for as long as they could remember for reasons they couldn't even have begun to explain. So perhaps take that as an answer to your original question, that, a realistic outcome to someone who hasn't been exposed to these ideas sort of ending up neck deep in them would be an intense sequence of trying to learn, misunderstanding, coming to terms, growth, and eventually acceptance and understanding.

 

[LargoKitt]

I don't remember anyone here being aware that you "had a reaction" to that at all - especially since you're talking about something that hasn't really happened so why would anyone talk about how you reacted to it?

Why would anyone talk about how your character reacted to it either? I don't remember seeing you talk about the content of this story and the way the character behaved.

Are different things getting mixed up, here? People definitely did talk about how you reacted to something, but it wasn't your (or your character's) reaction to your (character's) new lover telling you(r character) they're bisexual.

The OP: "I am intrigued by writing a story where one of the members of a couple identify as bi. They are faithfully married to their spouse. Does this mean they say they were bi? In couples with a bi partner, who don't want an open marriage, what does the bi partner do about the fact that the sex is '50% fulfilling'? Role playing? Erotica featuring the other gender? People have said about this, "Well, you are just committed to your partner once you seal the deal." So your loving mate just blows away all those other desires? What do engaged couples with a bi partner say to each other?"

 

[LargoKitt]

I believe you might be starting to get it. And yes, not only could I imagine someone whose understanding is incomplete in that way having a similar reaction to the initial thoughts you had here, I've SEEN it happen firsthand. Someone I know very well who came from the same sort of conservative upbringing I did found out the person they'd started dating was bi. Luckily, the person in question learned, grew, changed, and then realized that a lot of the things they took for granted about themselves had actually been bothering them for as long as they could remember for reasons they couldn't even have begun to explain. So perhaps take that as an answer to your original question, that, a realistic outcome to someone who hasn't been exposed to these ideas sort of ending up neck deep in them would be an intense sequence of trying to learn, misunderstanding, coming to terms, growth, and eventually acceptance and understanding.

Whoof! Yeah. I'm thinkin'... And like poet Wiliam Carlos Williams said, "No ideas but in things." People as real as we can make them working out some of the currents in their personal lives of the late 20th and early 21st C.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

The OP: "I am intrigued by writing a story where one of the members of a couple identify as bi. They are faithfully married to their spouse. Does this mean they say they were bi? In couples with a bi partner, who don't want an open marriage, what does the bi partner do about the fact that the sex is '50% fulfilling'? Role playing? Erotica featuring the other gender? People have said about this, "Well, you are just committed to your partner once you seal the deal." So your loving mate just blows away all those other desires? What do engaged couples with a bi partner say to each other?"

To cut to the chase and go back to this original question: I think it unlikely the bi partner themselves would say it in the past tense like that, but I can 100% imagine (and, as I said, have seen with my own eyes) the partner with no prior experience with these topics having those misconceptions.

I recall having those misconceptions myself, back before I really understood a lot about this stuff. Around fifteen years ago, I was talking with a good friend, in a loving, stable marriage, one kid already with another on the way, and she mentioned being bi. I looked at her in confusion and said "you mean you were bi, right? At this point you're just (her husband's name)sexual, just like I'm (my spouse's name)sexual." And she looks at me very seriously and says "No. I am my own person, and (husband)'s existence in my life doesn't change who I am. His presence in my life doesn't erase the rest of my sexuality. I do intend to be married to him for the rest of my life, but if something changes and I'm not, or if god forbid something were to happen to him, I could never replace him, but it doesn't mean that there would be no one else in the world I could ever be attracted to again. And since that someone else I could be attracted to includes both men and women, it means I'm bi, even if life does go the way I want it to. I don't assume that just because you're married to (my spouse's name) it means you're incapable of being attracted to anyone else, all it means is that you're committed to (my spouse's name) and don't pursue anyone else." Then she smiled at her husband, and I smiled at my spouse, both of whom nodded and smiled back supportively, and we went on to deal out the cards for the board game we'd been setting up.

 

[LargoKitt]

To cut to the chase and go back to this original question: I think it unlikely the bi partner themselves would say it in the past tense like that, but I can 100% imagine (and, as I said, have seen with my own eyes) the partner with no prior experience with these topics having those misconceptions.

I recall having those misconceptions myself, back before I really understood a lot about this stuff. Around fifteen years ago, I was talking with a good friend, in a loving, stable marriage, one kid already with another on the way, and she mentioned being bi. I looked at her in confusion and said "you mean you were bi, right? At this point you're just (her husband's name)sexual, just like I'm (my spouse's name)sexual." And she looks at me very seriously and says "No. I am my own person, and (husband)'s existence in my life doesn't change who I am. His presence in my life doesn't erase the rest of my sexuality. I do intend to be married to him for the rest of my life, but if something changes and I'm not, or if god forbid something were to happen to him, I could never replace him, but it doesn't mean that there would be no one else in the world I could ever be attracted to again. And since that someone else I could be attracted to includes both men and women, it means I'm bi, even if life does go the way I want it to. I don't assume that just because you're married to (my spouse's name) it means you're incapable of being attracted to anyone else, all it means is that you're committed to (my spouse's name) and don't pursue anyone else." Then she smiled at her husband, and I smiled at my spouse, both of whom nodded and smiled back supportively, and we went on to deal out the cards for the board game we'd been setting up.

Elizabeth Gilbert is a good window on this 'brave new world' because she wrote books about love relationships with both a man and a woman. I think I am fascinated by the 'if something changes'. I wrote a book of short poems about love with each poem being a different age. The premise is that love at 16, 38, and 72 is different. We may renegotiate relationships often.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

I think I am fascinated by the 'if something changes'.

I'd love to elaborate on it. Do you know what about it fascinates you?

 

[LargoKitt]

I'd love to elaborate on it. Do you know what about it fascinates you?

This can be the root of many stories, and rich nostalgia. Perhaps you know a couple that were buddies, passionate lovers, and wise partners to each other from day one. For me, quite rare. So many others evolve: mad passion -> patience and responsibility, connected by duty -> connected by fascination, locked in -> totally footloose. All this can be masked to thers by the 'Mr. & Mrs.' or 'Ms. & Ms.' on the envelope. Pres. Carter spoke of 'lusting after women in his heart' and I've never seen a better bond than him and Roselyn. And now the door is much wider open to people starting life at B and ending at L, or whatever...

 

[usable001]

And now the door is much wider open to people starting life at B and ending at L, or whatever...

A big thing to remember is that, as much as kids say otherwise (and have always said otherwise to their elders), a good hunk of the lessons you've learned in life still apply, with only minor adjustments.

Where a month ago, you might have said to a girl: "You deserve respect. If a boy you care about says that you don't..."
You might now say to that same person: "You deserve respect. If someone you care about says that you don't..."

The advice you have will be just as true (and just as painful, for that matter), and just as likely to be ignored or accepted. Young adults are still figuring themselves out; they always have.

The most abhorrent thing in this whole mess, to me, is someone expressing something inside themselves—something that is probably going to make their lives both harder and happier in the long run—and someone who said they loved them, someone they looked up to, intentionally adding to that hardship. No matter what else is going on in my spouse's life, my kids' lives, and my grandkids' lives, I don't want to be the source of that kind of pain.

 

[sirhugs]

A big thing to remember is that, as much as kids say otherwise (and have always said otherwise to their elders), a good hunk of the lessons you've learned in life still apply, with only minor adjustments.

Where a month ago, you might have said to a girl: "You deserve respect. If a boy you care about says that you don't..."
You might now say to that same person: "You deserve respect. If someone you care about says that you don't..."

The advice you have will be just as true (and just as painful, for that matter), and just as likely to be ignored or accepted. Young adults are still figuring themselves out; they always have.

The most abhorrent thing in this whole mess, to me, is someone expressing something inside themselves—something that is probably going to make their lives both harder and happier in the long run—and someone who said they loved them, someone they looked up to, intentionally adding to that hardship. No matter what else is going on in my spouse's life, my kids' lives, and my grandkids' lives, I don't want to be the source of that kind of pain.

Might I respectfully suggest that even worse than "intentionally adding" to the hardship is the people who do it not intentionally or even out of ignorance, but just because it is in their nature to be casually cruel, even to those they claim to love. Though of course they don't truly feel what others might recognize as love.

Which leads to a slightly different point than the perfectly valid point about not intentionally adding to the pain. It is equally important to appreciate the suffering caused by others to other, to do what we can to counteract that pain, and advocate for solutions to reduce the struggle.

 

[LargoKitt]

A big thing to remember is that, as much as kids say otherwise (and have always said otherwise to their elders), a good hunk of the lessons you've learned in life still apply, with only minor adjustments.

Where a month ago, you might have said to a girl: "You deserve respect. If a boy you care about says that you don't..."
You might now say to that same person: "You deserve respect. If someone you care about says that you don't..."

The advice you have will be just as true (and just as painful, for that matter), and just as likely to be ignored or accepted. Young adults are still figuring themselves out; they always have.

The most abhorrent thing in this whole mess, to me, is someone expressing something inside themselves—something that is probably going to make their lives both harder and happier in the long run—and someone who said they loved them, someone they looked up to, intentionally adding to that hardship. No matter what else is going on in my spouse's life, my kids' lives, and my grandkids' lives, I don't want to be the source of that kind of pain.

It also occurs to me that sex and love are much less tied together than they used to be. People are much more comfortable saying, "I just love fucking the buns off of you; but this is strictly 'booty call business'. No rings, no kids, no cottages with roses." OTOH one might be saying, "I will love you till I die. You complete my thoughts and get all my jokes, and I never, ever want to get in your pants." And there is the 'working it out' in an environment where not only you, and your buds are 'still exploring', and think its unfair, maybe even illegal to lock somebody to a gender or an identity, but the whole society is a bit tectonic. Here's a paragraph from my Diversity Twins series, Ch. 4:

"Wait. When Madde stepped out on me with Lena it was...yes...somebody else...but it was still a woman, part of our new lives as women who love women that way. But when I was with Leon...It maybe feels like I was going back to a man, it means, sort of, or could mean...our whole episode is over. Done. Maybe regretted. Turning my back on something that was just.... Or...or...even if I say I'm bi, is it still like...maybe...you, Madde aren't the main act in my life any more. Would it look like I was just trying you on, 'cause it just happened, not because I really meant it. Sex. Love. Sex. Love. Oh, fuck. So are we done? Is this me going back to being 'a regular girl' again? That must be what she is thinking.

"So. Mads. You think maybe I'm ditching you for dick?"