OMG, this is just sick. And it's in my own family

[Guest]

I hope nobody stones me to death for not posting under my registered name but you're about to understand why. I just had to get this out and maybe, get some advice on it.

*gulp*

My cousin and my aunt have never had what you would call a normal relationship. My aunt, we'll call her Diane, and my cousin, who we'll call Mandy, have always been just a little too close.

Diane's husband left when Mandy was 8 or so. No biggie, really. But Mandy I don't think every really handled it. She just has kind of always lived in this fantasy world of singers and movie stars. I know lots of people collect stuff on their favorite celeb but Mandy takes it too far. She's got, literally hundreds of scrapbooks of pictures and articles on dozens of celebs and refers to them all by their first names. She's never been interested in a "real" boy, just her celebrities.

I know it's normal for kids to do that to kind of try on adult feelings without having to do anything about it, but Mandy is 19 now and hasn't let up a bit. In fact she's gotten even more obsessive if anything.

Last year she got a full ride scholarship to a really good private college and called Diane after 3 days to come pick her up because she couldn't be away from her. She even wears Diane's class ring.

Mandy dresses really masculine, she wears vests and ties at formal occasions, and Diane is just the opposite. I don't think I've ever seen her without high heels and a dress and too much make up.

Than last night I went to a movie with Mandy and we went for ice cream after and got to talking. Mandy started asking me all these questions about sex and whatever so I thought maybe she's just a late bloomer. So I answered what I could and then asked who's the lucky guy? Mandy said nobody. Cool, she's just curious, right? Wrong.

A little further in the conversation I asked if she ever did anything sexually speaking with a guy. She hadn't. So I went out a limb and asked if she ever did anything with a woman and she said sort of. Then after a lot of prodding she finally fessed up that her and (I'm not sure I can say this) her mother had "messed around".

What am I supposed to do with this? Is there anybody I can contact to get them some help? I just can't be around them now knowing this is going on. What would you do?

 

[lobito]

hate to say it, but the only thing you can do probably, is if you doin't like it, stay away. Don't cause trouble, because it's THIER business not yours. IF they want help they will get it. Doing something because YOU want it isn't fair to them.

 

[Guest]

But how can Mandy ever have a chance at a normal life with this going on?

 

[KillerMuffin]

Mandy is an adult now, therefore she makes her own decisions. There's nothing that you can do that won't cause strife in the family because your only recourse is to talk to people in your family about it. Think how that'll help things out.

In most places, if you went to outside of your family, both Mandy and Diane would be arrested because incest is illegal.

What to do? Be a friend to Mandy.

 

[Smilodon]

this is not a nice thing to find out. However Mandy is 19 - perhaps you have to find out when thie all started getting dodgy. If it started when Mandy was, say, 14, she will not have had a chance to develop emotionally or sexually on her own, quite apart from the fact that in this case your aunt needs serious help/locking up. (sorry, but there it is)

If however this is a recent thing then perhaps they should just be left to get on with it. It will be really hard for you either way. I hope you have someone trustworthy to confide in.

Hugs,

Smiley

 

[phrodeau]

But how can Mandy ever have a chance at a normal life with this going on?

She can't. It's blown for her, and your aunt is the reason why. Mandy will likely need lots of professional counseling to even approach a normal life.

 

[lobito]

The way you described it first, tells us that she's not "normal" to begin with.

Causing problems in your family will not only bring them hatred from family, but also to you, from them most likely.

Ask and accept our advice, or don't ask at all.

It has EVERYTHING to do with age here, when it started, but again, if you don't want your relatives in jail, then don't do anything at all. Just dont' talk to them if that's your choosing.

 

[Cherry]

YIKES!

Sounds like the mother screwed up that young lady forever. How will she ever identify the difference between parental love and sexual love?

It may be a good sign that she confided in you ... as a 19 year old, she might be understanding the abnormal dimensions of an incestuous relationship with her mother now.

After your initial shock, how did you respond? Did you leave her with the feeling that she can continue to confide in you? Will you be able to direct her to professional counseling without making her feel degraded?

Please try to keep in mind, it isn't her fault that she was used.

 

[Smilodon]

Re: YIKES!

It may be a good sign that she confided in you ... as a 19 year old, she might be understanding the abnormal dimensions of an incestuous relationship with her mother now.

Yes, something i missed off - the fact that she brought up the subject with you MAY be a cry for help. How did she seem when she told you about it?

Smiley

 

[Beethoven'sFire]

Don't neglect yourself when seeking to resolve this matter. It seems as if it might be damaging you as well.

Some things are beyond our control.

 

[patient1]

Sorry.

Mandy is an adult now, therefore she makes her own decisions. There's nothing that you can do that won't cause strife in the family because your only recourse is to talk to people in your family about it. Think how that'll help things out.

In most places, if you went to outside of your family, both Mandy and Diane would be arrested because incest is illegal.

What to do? Be a friend to Mandy.

What K.M. said.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

She's an adult, but that doesn't mean she's mature sexually or emotionally. Obviously she's not. It's (nearly) apparent she's being taken advantage of. That's abuse. It doesn't matter how old she is, she's most likely being abused (or at the least, cajoled). Why do things always have to be "nice" in a family? Cause strife. Tell people. Save everyone years of psychological counseling.

Believe me, if your cousin wasn't hoping for it all to come out she wouldn't have told you in the first place. She WANTS the thing ended.

So end it.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

She can't. It's blown for her, and your aunt is the reason why. Mandy will likely need lots of professional counseling to even approach a normal life.

I wouldn't be absolute myself; the fact that she is curious about sex (and it sounds like she is curious about sex with guys) indicates that she may be curious about sex with somebody other than her mother.

Sometimes people so young can turn their lives around very quickly. If it wasn't her mother, and if she wasn't so clearly dependent on her mother, I would say as long as she is happy, whatever.

However, she is clearly emotionally immature, and she needs to get out on her own and away from her mother.

UR, I don't think there is much you can do about the situation - and I certainly wouldn't go suggesting counseling out of the blue. I would take whatever opportunity to suggest the the young lady that she does need to get out on her own (without saying *anything* about her mom - which would cause just the opposite to happen) and discover what is out there.

Suggesting some kind of activity without her mother, such as a cruise or vacation with friends, where she can meet other people her age, yet still know she is coming back home, would be a good way for her to ease into doing things on her own. Going away to college was maybe too much of a cold turkey thing for her - whereas a week or two, with the anticipation of coming home, would be a good place to start.

 

[Laurel]

I'm not totally convinced based on what you've told us that Mandy has a sexual relationship with her mother. Her attachment to her mom could be a response to the father leaving when she was young. Mandy obviously has emotional problems, but strictly going off what you've said I'm not totally sure that it's related to molestation. It could be that the mother "abuses" her in other ways, such as over-sheltering Mandy or leaning too heavily on Mandy for emotional support.

But either way, it seems like Mandy is reaching out. Next time she starts opening up, probe her with questions. Ask her what's REALLY on her mind. Don't come straight out and ask, "Is Mom molesting you?" because she'll get defensive, but do be assertive. It sounds like she's got something she needs to say, but she's too afraid to say it on her own.

I also agree that you should discuss this with other family members. They may have seen things that you haven't, and you can all pool your knowledge and maybe figure out what's going on with Mandy.

 

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure it's sexual. They're overly physically affectionate to each other almost all the time. Holding hands in public, sitting waaaay too close to each other, Mandy will rest her head on her mother's chest, things like that. If I were to imaginarily replace Mandy with a guy they'd look just like a couple you would see on the street. That always made me nuts, but incest was something I just kind of nervously joked about with our other relatives. No one thought it was actually going on. I guess it is.

As to how I reacted, I swallowed my shock and asked Mandy if she was comfortable with it. She just said something to the affect that, I dunno, she IS my mother. I have no idea what that reallly means but it sounds like she's being manipulated to a point anyways.

 

[alexandraaah]

I hope nobody stones me to death for not posting under my registered name but you're about to understand why. I just had to get this out and maybe, get some advice on it.

*gulp*

My cousin and my aunt have never had what you would call a normal relationship. My aunt, we'll call her Diane, and my cousin, who we'll call Mandy, have always been just a little too close.

Diane's husband left when Mandy was 8 or so. No biggie, really. But Mandy I don't think every really handled it. She just has kind of always lived in this fantasy world of singers and movie stars. I know lots of people collect stuff on their favorite celeb but Mandy takes it too far. She's got, literally hundreds of scrapbooks of pictures and articles on dozens of celebs and refers to them all by their first names. She's never been interested in a "real" boy, just her celebrities.

Age aside, Mandy is probably functioning at the emotional level she was when her dad left (8), which could explain why you feel she does things that don't seem age-appropriate. I don't know if I'd let anyone else in on this quite yet; take some time to let Mandy open up. If you're certain that there has been sexual contact, explain to her that you're concerned about this and if she'd like help you can help her. In the meantime look for a sound counselor/therapist who can help her deal with this. My guess is, if she opens up to you, she'll come back asking for that number. Good luck; unfortunately, this isn't as rare as you think.

Alexandra

I know it's normal for kids to do that to kind of try on adult feelings without having to do anything about it, but Mandy is 19 now and hasn't let up a bit. In fact she's gotten even more obsessive if anything.

Last year she got a full ride scholarship to a really good private college and called Diane after 3 days to come pick her up because she couldn't be away from her. She even wears Diane's class ring.

Mandy dresses really masculine, she wears vests and ties at formal occasions, and Diane is just the opposite. I don't think I've ever seen her without high heels and a dress and too much make up.

Than last night I went to a movie with Mandy and we went for ice cream after and got to talking. Mandy started asking me all these questions about sex and whatever so I thought maybe she's just a late bloomer. So I answered what I could and then asked who's the lucky guy? Mandy said nobody. Cool, she's just curious, right? Wrong.

A little further in the conversation I asked if she ever did anything sexually speaking with a guy. She hadn't. So I went out a limb and asked if she ever did anything with a woman and she said sort of. Then after a lot of prodding she finally fessed up that her and (I'm not sure I can say this) her mother had "messed around".

What am I supposed to do with this? Is there anybody I can contact to get them some help? I just can't be around them now knowing this is going on. What would you do?

 

[alexandraaah]

Sorry...dunno what I just did, but here's my reply:


Age aside, Mandy is probably functioning at the emotional level she was when her dad left (8), which could explain why you feel she does things that don't seem age-appropriate. I don't know if I'd let anyone else in on this quite yet; take some time to let Mandy open up. If you're certain that there has been sexual contact, explain to her that you're concerned about this and if she'd like help you can help her. In the meantime look for a sound counselor/therapist who can help her deal with this. My guess is, if she opens up to you, she'll come back asking for that number. Good luck; unfortunately, this isn't as rare as you think.

Alexandra

 

[Cath!]

As to how I reacted, I swallowed my shock and asked Mandy if she was comfortable with it. She just said something to the affect that, I dunno, she IS my mother. I have no idea what that reallly means but it sounds like she's being manipulated to a point anyways.

As a parent of children that were abused as little children by their father AND mother...they are still dealing with issues surrounding their sexuality. My oldest is 18 and never wants to have children cause it will involve having sex...she thought she could get married and just live as roommates...

Thank god we had/have a wonderful counsellor that has helped them to realize that they are not the problem...that their parents had the problem.

Mandy will need to talk to somebody...even on one of those call-in support lines...but she needs to talk to someone. I am curious as to what she has been told by her mother. Does Mandy think that she is responsible for making her mother attracted to her? Many abused kids feel this.

I am sorry...really and truly sorry.

 

[alexandraaah]

I'm pretty sure it's sexual. They're overly physically affectionate to each other almost all the time. Holding hands in public, sitting waaaay too close to each other, Mandy will rest her head on her mother's chest, things like that. If I were to imaginarily replace Mandy with a guy they'd look just like a couple you would see on the street. That always made me nuts, but incest was something I just kind of nervously joked about with our other relatives. No one thought it was actually going on. I guess it is.

As to how I reacted, I swallowed my shock and asked Mandy if she was comfortable with it. She just said something to the affect that, I dunno, she IS my mother. I have no idea what that reallly means but it sounds like she's being manipulated to a point anyways.

This is what I tell my clients and it's true: if you have a gut feeling about something, especially if you have for a long time, you're probably right.

 

[Laurel]

I agree to a point, but I think we need to be wary of leveling charges of molestation against someone based on gut feelings. If you publicly accuse the mother of molesting her own child, and you are wrong, then you will have ruined an innocent woman's life. Charges like that don't just go away, even when proven untrue. People charged with molestation - even if the accusations are proven completely false - carry that stigma for the rest of their lives. Don't be in such a rush to protect Mandy that you destroy someone else in the process.

 

[LadyDarkFire]

This is a very difficult tightrope to walk, and ultimately you have two choices. To let it drop, and walk away, ignoring your gut instincts, or to get into this, and have a very difficult time of it. It's never easy, but really, it comes down to one thing. Do what you think is best for Mandy. Frankly, I don't envy you, and I wish you the best of luck with a hard situation.

 

[alexandraaah]

I agree to a point, but I think we need to be wary of leveling charges of molestation against someone based on gut feelings. If you publicly accuse the mother of molesting her own child, and you are wrong, then you will have ruined an innocent woman's life. Charges like that don't just go away, even when proven untrue. People charged with molestation - even if the accusations are proven completely false - carry that stigma for the rest of their lives. Don't be in such a rush to protect Mandy that you destroy someone else in the process.

I would never suggest publicly or even privately accusing anyone of such actions...I just think it sounds like his/her intuition is correct. Unregistered should hear from Mandy herself what is true, refer to a therapist where the code of ethics states that nothing can be revealed save situations that put the client or someone else in imminent danger. Sorry if there was ambiguity there..

 

[Siren]

DCL gave some sound advice, I suggest you listen to it and follow it.