Non-politically correct thinking

Ishmael

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Walter Williams

November 27, 2002



There're lots of terms used in ways that have great emotional worth but little analytical value. Take the term discrimination. When selecting a wife, some 43 years ago, not every woman was given an equal opportunity. I discriminated against white, Chinese and Japanese women, not to mention criminal women.

You say, "Williams, that kind of discrimination is OK because it's harmless!" That's untrue. When I married, other women were harmed. The only way that I couldn't have harmed other women was to be a man that only one woman would want. Sometimes, I'm tempted by the ideals of equal opportunity and non-discrimination, but Mrs. Williams insists otherwise. Discrimination simply means the act of choice.

Speaking of Mrs. Williams, early in our marriage she used to angrily charge, "You're using me Walter!" I'd tell her that of course I was using her. After all, who in their right mind would marry a person for whom they had no use? In fact, another way of looking at the problem of people who can't find marriage partners is that they can't find somebody to use them. One never wants to be useless.

How about the expression, "It's not right to profit from the misfortune of others." That's utter nonsense that's easily revealed if we ask: Should there be a law against profiting from the misfortune of others? I'm guessing that auto collision shop owners are not saddened by predictions of ice storms. Neither are orthopedic physicians when people break a limb in a skiing accident. I profit from the fact that students are ignorant of economics. So should we have a law banning profiting from the misfortune of others?

What about prejudice and stereotyping? Going to the word's Latin root, to pre-judge simply means: making decisions on the basis of incomplete information.

Here's an example: Suppose leaving your workplace you see a full-grown tiger standing outside the door. Most people would endeavor to leave the area in great dispatch. That prediction isn't all that interesting, but the question why is. Is your decision to run based on any detailed information about that particular tiger, or is it based on tiger folklore and how you've seen other tigers behaving? It's probably the latter.

You simply pre-judge that tiger; you stereotype him. If you didn't pre-judge and stereotype that tiger, you'd endeavor to obtain more information, like petting him on the head and doing other friendly things to determine whether he's dangerous. Most people would quickly calculate that the likely cost of an additional unit of information about the tiger exceeds any benefit and wouldn't bother to seek additional information. In other words, all they need to know is he's a tiger.

Similarly, sometimes it makes sense to use sex and race stereotypes. If I'm faced with choosing among people who could become soldiers and succeed in a 20-mile forced march carrying 60 pounds of equipment, I'd assign a higher likelihood that men would succeed more so than women. Or, choosing among the general population who is more likely to be able to slam-dunk a basketball, I'd choose a black over a white and surely men over women. If I were guessing the race of an American most likely to win a Nobel Prize in science, I'd select a Jew over any other ethnic group. In none of these cases is there necessarily a causal relationship, but there's surely an associative one. Moreover, pre-judging and stereotyping doesn't necessarily make one a sexist or racist.

You say, "Williams, how can you get away with such political incorrectness?" It's easy. I'm a tenured professor, and I have diversified sources of income -- plus, I don't have much longer in this world.

--------------------------------------------------

Walter is good. :)
 
I like how this guy thinks. I basically agree with him on all counts. 'Nuff said by me.

I liked the cheap furniture thread, by the way.
 
Opening my big mouth, and lord knows its likely to get me into trouble, I kinda like ole Walt myself.
 
Why thank you ladies, both of you. Quite frankly I had expected a little opposition to the article from the feminine front.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Why thank you ladies, both of you. Quite frankly I had expected a little opposition to the article from the feminine front.

Ishmael


You should know that I'm not terribly PC. :p
 
Ishmael said:
Why thank you ladies, both of you. Quite frankly I had expected a little opposition to the article from the feminine front.

Ishmael

You may yet get it, but you know better than to expect it from me, do you not?
 
Politically correct thinking has been about 80% total horseshit anyway.

It's good to see the pendulum settling into a middle range.

Societal change is like that, I think.

Lance
 
That's untrue. When I married, other women were harmed. The only way that I couldn't have harmed other women was to be a man that only one woman would want.

Other women were harmed? Well, that would be assuming a) that other women would want him and b) that there were women who only wanted him and who would not be wanted by anyone else?



You simply pre-judge that tiger; you stereotype him. If you didn't pre-judge and stereotype that tiger, you'd endeavor to obtain more information, like petting him on the head and doing other friendly things to determine whether he's dangerous

As an animal, the tiger's behaviors are predictable in a large part by nature and drives. A tiger is likely to act on it's fear by trying to eat you.

Now, if it were a black man outside the office? Let's say you give him a wide berth as you walk around him and run as soon as you can? For arguement's sake, every time you see a black man , you avoid being near them and rush off as soon as possible? When you attribute common characteristics to black men because you believe that they all behave in a certain manner in a certain situation, that is prejudging, prejudice and is wrong. In this case, you might think all black men are likely to mug you.
 
Lancecastor said:
Politically correct thinking has been about 80% total horseshit anyway.

It's good to see the pendulum settling into a middle range.

Societal change is like that, I think.

Lance

It's like we do shit to ourselves because we're bored. So, we rebel against the status quo. Only to find that you became the status quo when you weren't even looking.

Ishmael
 
MissTaken said:


Other women were harmed? Well, that would be assuming a) that other women would want him and b) that there were women who only wanted him and who would not be wanted by anyone else?

Well, you don't read much Walter Williams do you? Andfy reference to Mrs. Williams is very tongue in cheek.

MissTaken said:

As an animal, the tiger's behaviors are predictable in a large part by nature and drives. A tiger is likely to act on it's fear by trying to eat you.

Now, if it were a black man outside the office? Let's say you give him a wide berth as you walk around him and run as soon as you can? For arguement's sake, every time you see a black man , you avoid being near them and rush off as soon as possible? When you attribute common characteristics to black men because you believe that they all behave in a certain manner in a certain situation, that is prejudging, prejudice and is wrong. In this case, you might think all black men are likely to mug you.

Agreed, but the subject is discrimination. Not prejudice. Two different animals.

Ishmael
 
No, I don't read much Williams.

And yes, the reference to tigers is about prejudice. You could stretch the matter to include prejudging something in order to make a choice. Then, stretch the discussion to include discrimination which he does say is "choice making."

I know. I have very discriminating taste. :D

And I actually agree that the term "politically correct" is crap. In fact, it is almost a contradiction in terms!
I also think people work too hard to watch their language in order not to offend others.


However, Mr Williams is marginally amusing.
 
Ishmael said:
It's like we do shit to ourselves because we're bored. So, we rebel against the status quo. Only to find that you became the status quo when you weren't even looking.

Ishmael

"Now I believe in this and it's been tested by research; he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

Death or Glory
~The Clash
 
MissTaken said:
No, I don't read much Williams.

And yes, the reference to tigers is about prejudice. You could stretch the matter to include prejudging something in order to make a choice. Then, stretch the discussion to include discrimination which he does say is "choice making."

I know. I have very discriminating taste. :D

And I actually agree that the term "politically correct" is crap. In fact, it is almost a contradiction in terms!
I also think people work too hard to watch their language in order not to offend others.


However, Mr Williams is marginally amusing.

Indeed.... and I'm glad a Pinko Socialscience-type like your good self appreciates a well-argued point. :devil:
 
Lancecastor said:
"Now I believe in this and it's been tested by research; he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

Death or Glory
~The Clash

And he who is of the church will later fuck anything. ;)

Ishmael
 
MissTaken said:


And yes, the reference to tigers is about prejudice. You could stretch the matter to include prejudging something in order to make a choice. Then, stretch the discussion to include discrimination which he does say is "choice making."

I know. I have very discriminating taste. :D

And I actually agree that the term "politically correct" is crap. In fact, it is almost a contradiction in terms!
I also think people work too hard to watch their language in order not to offend others.


Yes it is. An example of prejudice vs discrimination. Well done, don't you think? ;)

But the article was still about discrimination.

Ishmael
 
Jimi6996 said:
Indeed.... and I'm glad a Pinko Socialscience-type like your good self appreciates a well-argued point. :devil:

There are few things I appreciate more than a well argued point!

;) :devil:
 
Ishmael said:
Yes it is. An example of prejudice vs discrimination. Well done, don't you think? ;)

But the article was still about discrimination.

Ishmael

Whatever :rolleyes:


I am too tired.

I am going to the fluff threads.

Catch ya later.
 
Ishmael said:
Similarly, sometimes it makes sense to use sex and race stereotypes.

This is drivel. The entrie thing is drivel. I feel dirty for having been exposed to it.
 
Re: Re: Non-politically correct thinking

Lasher said:
This is drivel. The entrie thing is drivel. I feel dirty for having been exposed to it.

Go cleanse yourself.

Ishmael
 
Being discriminating in one's judgement is evidence of wisdom.

Being prejudiced in one's discrimination is short sighted.

Using the animal kingdom to illustrate a methodology for racial and gender bias rather than discriminating to ascertain ability is prejudice of the most extreme sort and clearly a reductio ad absurdum for the purposes of provokation in debate.

~

My son is the top defenceman on a ranked regional all boy hockey team. They are currently tied for first place in the league. On Sunday they were lucky to skate away to a 1-1 tie against a team half comprised of girls, many of whom were amongst the best players on the ice.

Girls tend to lack the muscle mass and physical strength to play the game at a high level, compared to boys.

In choosing 17 players from 40 for a squad, I'd want the best 17, regardless of their gender or skin color.

That's discriminating, but it's not prejudice.

Lance
 
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