nominations

[Dillinger]

I don't know what's going on. As I said, I've been happy with how well my stories have been doing. And I hope they've been doing well because of their merit.

I'm sure we can debate endlessly here about who likes what stories (and why) and the merits of each person’s literary abilities. I don't much appreciate the attacks I've read here on either my writing talents or my integrity. Nor do I appreciate the name calling that some here have resorted to.

As far as my writing talents go - or anyone’s - there is both the matter of technical skill as well as the matter of enjoyment. Technical skill means nothing without content. I think content (story line, plot, whatever) is more important than technical skill in that the reader might very much enjoy a story even if it wasn't the most skillfully written. Of course, having both technical skill and superb story content would be the ideal. I hope, as time goes on, to get better at both.

Personally, I vote on what turns me on and probably tend to ignore any lack of technical competence unless it glaringly takes away from the flow of the story.

Integrity. Madame Pandora asked: "Do you think maybe that since you've been online so long and have so many friends that maybe someone else is doing things for you?" I hope not. And I plan on laying off on the self-promotion, at least for the time being. If it helps I’ll let folks know the concerns of the people posting here in the hopes that it will discourage anyone inclined to “do things for me.”

For the record, I wrote Jessica’s Big Dick Adventure about 8 years ago. I only recently discovered this site and realized I now had somewhere to publish it. I’d like to think that my writing has improved since then. The Lingerie Store was written just a couple months ago and I’ve been working on a couple of new stories.

Regarding some of the other comments about reader feedback: I too have received a good number of comments from readers who were very enthusiastic about my stories. I say that it is all a matter of personal taste. I write what I enjoy and hope that there are others who will enjoy it as well.

Dixon – thank you for making me aware of this controversy. Obviously I’m not exactly thrilled about being at the center of it though! (*lol*)

 

[SimplySouthern]

OK. Due to the fact that numbers mystify me, I have not spoken my piece about this subject. I don't pretend to understand the whole rating system and don't have the time nor the fortitude to sit down and try to equate how a 1 rating affects your scoring nor how many it takes to move you to the lowest on the "totem pole".

I will say, however, that it does seem more than a little fishy to me that one person consistently stays at the top of the lists. I won't go as far as to say that it is Dillinger himself who is doing this, because to be frank (Hi Frank) I don't know this to be fact. It may be someone who is attempting to promote Dillinger and doesn't realize that this is NOT the way to go about it. My plea would be for Dillinger to be a little less zealous in his promotion of himself so as not to incite people of this character (or lack thereof in this case) to continue with acts of this sort.

Moving along, I have to say that I have read EVERYTHING KillerMuffin has written and find her writing style to be wonderful and very entertaining. Although the subject material and content may not be what "fucks my duck" I never fail to be turned on by her words.

Do I vote on the stories here? Only the ones that I find exceptionally well written. I have never in the year that I have been here given anyone a 1 score. As a matter of fact, the only score I have ever given anyone was a top of line rating and only then when I thought this score was well deserved. I don't care to have a negative effect on anything that anyone has put hard work and effort into.

Bottom line...trashing someone else's work is wrong and just plain mean spirited. I don't do it and I certainly don't take it lightly that someone else does. This BB is full of people who care about one another and about the integrity of Literotica. If you think you are going to get away with something here ... you are wrong.

 

[Whispersecret]

LOL, Rach. So go get him.

Dixon, the stories posted under the old system didn’t cross over with their votes intact. When the changeover happened, I checked on “Hostile Takeover’s” status and found it wasn’t on the list at all, which kind of shocked me. Since its debut in May eight months ago, it remained on the Top Twenty list, going as low as #17, but never disappearing off the list. So, I checked on my voting and saw that it had almost no votes. I figured it needed ten+ votes to kick it back on the list. So, with 12 votes, it’s there all right (Chapter 10 is at least) at #464 or something out of 500.

When people send me feedback, I’m always tempted to ask them if they remembered to vote, because if they thought enough to send me a note to tell me they liked H.T. then it follows that they’d vote highly. But I never do. I don’t want to look like a person desperate for readers and/or recognition at the cost of my humility (such as it is. LOL.) I’m sure that it’s possible to promote one’s stories without looking like a braggart, but I don’t think I can manage it without feeling like one.

People tell me to look up their stories here or on other sites all the time. I’ll usually only do that if I consider them a friend or an almost-friend. So, even though you have many acquaintances, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they’re all going to run over to the site, read your stories, and vote highly enough on them to keep them in the top ten.

Therefore, if it was me in this predicament and I hadn’t done anything wrong, I’d be extremely concerned that someone was fucking around with the voting on my behalf. What kind of satisfaction can I get from knowing that my stories are only on top because someone slammed the competition into the dirt? Absolutely none.

 

[Madame Pandora]

At the risk of being snarky....

Okay...

Dillinger, you are of course going to get defensive about your writing and your integrity. Good! I'd be worried if you didn't. That shows you have some you are willing to defend

But...honestly, I don't see that we've been "debating endlessly" - the thread isn't even a week old yet!And even if you are offended, you have to admit if the shoe were on the other foot, you'd want to ask a question or two.

Personally, my story gets a good rank, my story gets a bad rank...I don't care...I mean, I think it's pretty good or else I wouldn't have posted it for strangers to read. But then, I also think Hudson Hawk is a great flick - so I don't pretend to have average taste.

I think the numbers game going on here is suspiscious, and even if one of my own stories WASN'T involved, I'd be curious. I didn't care for your stories, but they are outside my genre of interest and they didn't sway enough to pull me in. I didn't vote on them (I did not inhale...rofl). That you wrote them 8 years ago says something to their quality, though, doesn't it?

As far as the content goes, I agree. No matter how many times someone writes about some guy in the sack with two women, it's always going to remain the #1 male fantasy, so you're right about that. This site isn't about the Pulitzer and the right content, no matter how it's written might get good ratings just because it was what they reader was looking for (what's the Robin Williams line...I'm not looking for Miss Right, I'm looking for Miss Right-Now!).

Still...it IS NOT the fact that your stories are voted high that I think we're questioning. Okay...so you get good mail and lots of 5s. Cool. No problem. What bothers me is that other people seem to be getting LOWER votes while yours are not. So...to me...we are either to assume that your stories are simply what most people who frequent the site WANT (although they only have 30 - 80 votes a pop while others have hundreds) OR someone - I'm not saying it's YOU - but SOMEONE is fiddling with the numbers.

Now...putting feelings aside (I know that's hard to do) and just being logical. Does that seem reasonable to you?

MP

(BTW - once this thread disappears off the boards, I will forever deny the Hudson Hawk thing)

 

[WriterDom]

I don't think Dill or his flock of followers would have an interest in giving me the hoard of ones I got once my poems reached the top list. It's completely separate from the story section. But I'd rather get ones and five's than the boring middle any day. One of the main reasons I starting posting here was the way everything is conveniently stored by author under one web page. Since then, I've met some pretty cool people and almost wish the voting was left the way it was before the change. A simple letter from a stranger once in a while is enough thanks for me.

 

[KillerMuffin]

My concern, in non-Muff English, is very simple. We don't get much actual feedback on our stories. More people read them than vote for them. Very few people actually post something on the feedback board or email. Usually those that email say loved it or hated it, but not why. Every once in a while I'll get a nice articulate email. I had one such for Tango, he liked the story and the writing even though the subject matter turned him off. Anyway, like most everyone else I use the voting to guage whether or not my writing is any good. If I consistently get bad scores, despite the email I get, that tells me that I stink as a writer and shouldn't quit my day job. If I get good scores, that means that my writing is good for someone.

I know that I don't write hot enough for people to pop wood and whack off. I just don't have that style. I just hope that I write an entertaining enough story, or a good enough story that people enjoy reading it and maybe want to read it again.

If the voting is being tampered with, I'm not getting accurate feedback. If I don't get accurate feedback, then I'm not getting a clear picture of my writing skills. This isn't about getting up or down the top lists, which I could really care less about, this is about whether or not I'm doing something good or not. I love my friends, and their compliments never fail to make me grin like a blithering idiot for hours, but I would like to know that strangers who could care less about me like my stuff too.

I would suggest that the top lists change once a week rather than every night, that would stymie those who want to see one author move up or down the lists. A week requires more patience than some people have. Maybe a more accurate reflection of the voter's feelings would be presented.

 

[WriterDom]

You could update once a week I guess, but I pity the poor person who sits at the top of the list till the next update

 

[Whispersecret]

WriterDom says, As far as dillinger goes, if people feel he shouldn't have so many stories near the top, then they should express that in the voting. Will be interesting to see where his stories will be six months from now.

I'm not going to make a point of going back and voting on Dillinger's stories just because I thought they were average. What's the point of that? When I vote, I vote on the spot, right after I've read the story. If I ever went back after the fact to vote, I'd only do so if I was going to vote favorably. Otherwise, it's just plain mean to go out of my way to return to a story for the sole purpose of voting three or less.

 

[Whispersecret]

Interesting idea, KM. Frankly it boggles my mind that someone would have the patience to studiously log on each and every day to vote down stories. Now that's committment.

WriterDom, I don't understand your last comment at all. Why would you pity the person at #1? I'm confused.

 

[Todd]

He is guilty. He admitted he is guilty by saying that he votes for his story every time he reads it. The system does not allow you to vote more than once unless you are multing your proxies/isps. So that to me states a clear evident admission of vote tampering.

 

[Whispersecret]

Todd, you misread his post. He didn't say that at all.

Here's the quote: "And I've told lots of other friends from other sites I frequent regularly to read them and vote on them as well."

It's a poorly constructed sentence, but he means that he visits other sites frequently, and he tells his friends to read his stories and vote on them.

[Edited by whispersecret on 01-02-2001 at 04:23 PM]

 

[WriterDom]

what I meant was if your story had to sit at #1 for a whole week, wouldn't that encourage the snipers to take shots at it for 7 days?

 

[WriterDom]

WriterDom says, As far as dillinger goes, if people feel he shouldn't have so many stories near the top, then they should express that in the voting. Will be interesting to see where his stories will be six months from now.

Assuming he is reaching the end of his recruitment of buddies, the next 100 votes he gets will be more on the merit of the stories. It wont require anyone to go back to vote. I think it would take care of itself over time.

 

[Deborah]

The numbers don't lie

He's guilty alright, Todd. But so was O.J.

Hey Dillinger, aren't you the dude who sells real estate in the Everglades? You know, the property that comes with the boat. I'll never quit now because Expertise is on your side. Talk about false allegations. He accused me of driving a Windstar. OK, so I made a mistake on something I said about you, Dillinger. You have 11 (out of 12) more posts plugging your own stories than I gave you credit for. Didn't notice the second page until I saw your number of posts above.

To reiterate people, this is not a matter of perception or that it seems that the competition is getting voted down while Dillinger is being voted up. This is fraud, deliberate and methodical manipulation of the voting. Yesterday, I just gave you the scoop from 12/28 where Dillinger's 7 stories went up and of the 50 between him and glory, 47 went down. Today I looked over 12/29 and 12/30 and 12/31 and 1/1. Same deal. Hundreds of other stories met the same fate. Do I really need to write a 5 page report? So the issue is not WHAT happened, but the WHO, and how to discourage it from happening in the future.

Whispersecret, this is exactly what happened to your "Hostile Takeover Ch. 7." It first made the top list on 12/30 at #16 with a rating of 4.50 and 10 votes. So a rating of 4.50 means 10 votes that add up to 45, like 5,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,3. (Right below you at #17 was "Jessica's Big Dick Adventure Ch. 7" with a rating of 4.49). The next day your rating was 3.92 and you had 2 additional votes for a total of 12 votes and you weren't even in the top 500. Both votes were 1. That's what the math says. Today, your story is #250 with a rating of 4.19 and you have 4 additional votes for a total of 16. Those 4 votes were all 5's. That's what the math says.

Changing from a weekly to a daily list just makes fraud all the easier. I wouldn't (not that I plan to make this a career) be able to determine what I just did about WS's story.

Regarding kicking up the number of votes needed to get on the top list from 10 to 100 or whatever ... The new voting system kicked in about a month ago. Which means that only those stories which were posted as NEW after 12/1 or thereabouts are typically going to have high vote totals, say over 100. Go look at today's top list. No story posted before 12/1 has over 100 votes, as far as I checked anyway. What this means is that if you increase the number of votes needed to get on the top list from 10 to 100, you are excluding one hell of a lot of good stories.

That's all for now folks. I'm off on another witch hunt. I have detected a person on this board who first was a woman, then a man, now back to a woman and some other guy too. Oh yeah, he was also a monkey for awhile.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Reintroducing the older stories

Okay....

So what if we had a seperate "top list" for stories posted before the change over? OR started reintroducing them with the "new" ones?

Can't we just add in what they had before?

MP

 

[Guest]

Deborah, obviously you meant "Hostile Takeover Ch. 10" and not 7. That's the second mistake you made this year. Otherwise I agree with all your numbers. Exactly what happened to Whispersecret's story.

And Whispersecret, I noticed that another part, "Hostile Takeover Ch. 1" is on today's top list at No. 58 with 11 votes. Probably just made it today. But watch your sweet ass! Watch out for Jessica's big dick. Yes indeed, the three parts of the "Jessica's Big Dick" series not already mentioned are on their way to the top. One of those three is slightly ahead of you and two are slightly behind you. I enjoyed your series immensely. Never voted though. I think I'll just go do that right now. You'll be getting a 5 on every part. Fuck Dillinger. Comparing his writing to yours is like comparing baloney to caviar. I also dig Deborah and KillerMuffin's stuff. You girls can write! Haven't read Madame Pandora yet but that's next on my list.

Deborah, sent you an e-mail a few minutes ago. I have a few other observations regarding this matter that may interest you. You seem to be very good at sorting this shit out.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Um, good point Deb.

Don't worry Pandora love, Laurel will eventually get it all figured out as far as previous votes transferring to the new scripts. She's on a well deserved vacation right now, so she can't be superscripty. As far as the Dillinger thing goes, no doubt it will all come out in the wash, eitherwise the top lists will have no purpose.

 

[HSWriter]

I agree... some wrong has been done...

I dont mean to get cocky here, but my top two stories, "The Tour Ch.2" and "The Tour Ch.4" were both sitting pretty in the top ten this prior week with marks up over 4.5. Ch.2 had a 4.7+ rating for a while, and yet in the last few days, they have both dropped to or below 4.4. I dont mean to sound cocky, but stories just dont drop like that without someone giving it a rating far below what everyone else had given it. My stories are not the best, but no story on this site deserves a vote of "1". And plus, in only a day or two, my story "Anna Kournikova" dropped from a 4.5 to a 4.15 in only 5 votes... I don't feel angry as much as I feel cheated.

 

[Fred H.]

having been a reader here for almost the life span of the site, I remember the old days when the top twenty never seemed to change.

Maybe a better way to approach this feedback to authors problem is to allow readers to post comments that can be attached to a story. I do remember reading one story that did that (can’t remember which one). With the comment attach the vote. I know this will scare off some readers from voting, but may produce a better result. Or allow only other authors that have submitted work to the site, to vote on stories during nomination time. Voting would require their name and this would allow only one vote from each peer (ie, authors rating other authors). This would limit the votes received and maybe reduce the feedback to a possibly unacceptable low level.

What ever is done to repair the problem lets not load the site owner with huge amounts of work. I’m sure they have better things to do than baby sit this process. Let the contributing writers fix this and work out a fair solution.

 

[KillerMuffin]

That's a fair idea fred, the problem is that the scripts would have to be rewritten to accomodate it, making it a site owner problem and Laurel is probably overwhelmed as it is. The best we can do is solicit email at the end or beginning of our stories. Once the story has been approved and posted on site, it's beyond our control to change without going through Laurel (webmistress). This includes fixing typos and having comments added to the end of the story.

I don't think there is a way to actually fix the current controversy, other than eliminating the voting process. It's just something that'll have to die down over time. Until it does, we have no recourse but bitching, and the best place for such bitching is in this forum.

 

[Madame Pandora]

Bitching

From what I have read, we certainly have the right group of women in this folder to have the bitching thing covered. I say we just bitch until the guilty party(ties)get bored and give up. Personally...I think we can outlast 'em

I repeat....

Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck ;-)

MP

 

[Whispersecret]

Deborah: Whispersecret, this is exactly what happened to your "Hostile Takeover Ch. 7." It first made the top list on 12/30 at #16 with a rating of 4.50 and 10 votes. So a rating of 4.50 means 10 votes that add up to 45, like 5,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,3. (Right below you at #17 was "Jessica's Big Dick Adventure Ch. 7" with a rating of 4.49). The next day your rating was 3.92 and you had 2 additional votes for a total of 12 votes and you weren't even in the top 500. Both votes were 1. That's what the math says. Today, your story is #250 with a rating of 4.19 and you have 4 additional votes for a total of 16. Those 4 votes were all 5's. That's what the math says.

This is why I didn’t major in math; I suck at it. Thanks for making it very easy to understand. I really appreciate your laying it out for me. The reason I’m getting more votes now, is probably one, because of this controversy (people are curious) and two, because it got more than 10 votes, it’s showing up on the Novella Top List now. I wish it were classified in Non-Consent too. That's where it really belongs.

Pandora: So what if we had a separate "top list" for stories posted before the change over? OR started reintroducing them with the "new" ones?

I don’t think a separate top list is a good idea. A top list should just be the top stories, period. If the old stories were top at one time and deserved it, I think that after some time goes by, they’ll work their way up again, barring illegal tampering.

Concerned Author: And Whispersecret, I noticed that another part, "Hostile Takeover Ch. 1" is on today's top list at No. 58 with 11 votes. Probably just made it today. But watch your sweet ass! Watch out for Jessica's big dick. Yes indeed, the three parts of the "Jessica's Big Dick" series not already mentioned are on their way to the top. One of those three is slightly ahead of you and two are slightly behind you. I enjoyed your series immensely. Never voted though. I think I'll just go do that right now. You'll be getting a 5 on every part. Fuck Dillinger. Comparing his writing to yours is like comparing baloney to caviar. I also dig Deborah and KillerMuffin's stuff. You girls can write! Haven't read Madame Pandora yet but that's next on my list.

LMAO there! Thanks for the laugh, CA. I’d love to know who you really are.

I wouldn’t be willing to bet the farm that Dillinger himself is behind all this, though he’s my main suspect. I doubt it will ever be proven. I just hope Laurel and Manu can figure out a way to prevent it from happening any longer.

Fred: Or allow only other authors that have submitted work to the site, to vote on stories during nomination time.

Interesting. Like The Academy Awards? Only actors can vote for best actor, etc? This is worth discussing, but probably won’t happen. I think Laurel would want readers to think they had a say in the awards. Remember where it says, “The top stories as chosen by YOU!” Plus, I’m sure it’s too late for this year’s awards.

By the way, thanks for starting the thread. If it hadn’t been for you, I would have been clueless about what was going on.

 

[WriterDom]

Today the highest Big Dick story is 35th, and the next is 64th. Perhaps the sudden drop is due to all the attention, but I believe over time that all the quirks get worked out and things even out.

 

[Guest]

4 Corinthians 69:8, "What goes around comes around."

Jessica and her big dick, the fucking harlot, will soon be in the bottomless pit, burning with fire and brimstone.

 

[Guest]

I'm a reader who visits the site to read stories a few times a week (and always votes) and occasionally visits the BBNs, and thought I'd give you an "average Joe" opinion.

Like many readers of this site, I suspect, I'm an avid reader of all genres, from newspaper stories to fiction. I find the written word more exciting and evocative than pictures and videos, and that's why I visit a literature porn site. I like Literotica because the stories aren't "and-then-I-stuck-my-dick-in-her", no-plot messes. But I visit a porn site primarily to read porn, not to read great writing. I appreciate the level of writing on Literotica, which is why this is my site of choice.

But, that said, when I vote I'm voting on the story, the plot, the machination -- not how well-written it is! I consider my vote a recommendation of sorts to others in much the same way that movie-goers vote with their wallets. "The Grinch" may not be a great movie, but lots of people went the first couple of weeks, and those people directly or indirectly influenced others...

Those authors such as Killer Muffin who are looking for validity of their writing through the numbers are probably relying on a poor indicator. Distinctions in writing style or expertise probably isn't that important important on a porn site. If it's important that your work is critiqued, it would probably make more sense to submit it to a site where an informed panel judges it. This isn't to pick on those authors -- Killer Muffin, I thought your story was well-written, though it wasn't what I like (and so wouldn't have voted highly). F. Scott Fitzgerald might've hung himself based on his votes, while Jackie Susann might have become even more ubiquitous.

I'll state again that this is one man's opinion, and doesn't reflect the opinion of management!