My Little Pony...

[Sean Renaud]

Also she's not a queen, she's a princess. Against Lauren Faust's wishes who wanted to have them as queens.

The Executives kindly pointed out that in Fairy Tales (which is a girly medium and despite having a fair number of adult and male fans we aren't the target) there are only two kinds of queens. The evil and the dead so young girls associate queens with villains because of that.

I then promptly went "NUH UH!" Busted out my Disney movies and. . .

Snow White: Dead real mother, evil step mother
Cindy: Dead Real Mother, Evil Step
Ariel: Dead Mother
Jasmine: Dead Mother
Belle: Dead Mother
Aurora: Parents put to sleep (But good)

I then pulled out my video games

Princess Zelda: Dead Mother (usually)
Princess Peach: No parents
Princess Rosalina: No Parents
Princess Sally: Dead mother, banished father

I then realized damn. Queens are evil and I want to chop their heads off and bang their daughters but if their daughters become queens I'll have to chop their heads off. It's a vicious cycle that is apparently solved by never promoting the princess.

 

[Recidiva]

Also she's not a queen, she's a princess. Against Lauren Faust's wishes who wanted to have them as queens.

The Executives kindly pointed out that in Fairy Tales (which is a girly medium and despite having a fair number of adult and male fans we aren't the target) there are only two kinds of queens. The evil and the dead so young girls associate queens with villains because of that.

I then promptly went "NUH UH!" Busted out my Disney movies and. . .

Snow White: Dead real mother, evil step mother
Cindy: Dead Real Mother, Evil Step
Ariel: Dead Mother
Jasmine: Dead Mother
Belle: Dead Mother
Aurora: Parents put to sleep (But good)

I then pulled out my video games

Princess Zelda: Dead Mother (usually)
Princess Peach: No parents
Princess Rosalina: No Parents
Princess Sally: Dead mother, banished father

I then realized damn. Queens are evil and I want to chop their heads off and bang their daughters but if their daughters become queens I'll have to chop their heads off. It's a vicious cycle that is apparently solved by never promoting the princess.

I lore even more.

Fairy tales are vicious bits of horror. Fairies are mean.

Queens died a lot in childbirth. They shouldn't be stigmatized.

Lion in Winter: Eleanor of Aquitaine kicked ass
Queen Victoria: Bitch never died, probably made of Steampunk clockworks therefore awesome.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Fairies are twats quite a lot of the time.

Still I was a little shocked to find that there was a rationale behind Princess Celestia and Princess Luna being the rulers of a kingdom instead of being queens. I don't know whether it's a case of me being male (there are plenty of good Kings, even if Disney Kings have a habit of being dumb, overprotective or both but to be fair almost all families since the 80s have dumb dad and smart mom (if they are both around) and dumb but well meaning dad if he's alone.) and not noticing the lack of Queens cus I haz penis and don't notice (and being fair often only care in a sort of enemy mine way. I'm fully aware that black super heroes of video game heroes are few and far between but you won't often catch me complaing about the lack of Mexican, Indian, Asian etc etc heroes in those mediums or even noticing half the time cus I can't cosplay as a Mexican any easier than I can a blonde. Wot? Just cus Avengers is a thing doesn't mean I wan to be Nick Fury!)

I'm not agreeing with the rationale per se as I am accepting that they didn't just pull something out of the ether as seems to happen so often when executives are allowed to make decisions.

 

[butters]

I lore even more.

Fairy tales are vicious bits of horror. Fairies are mean.

Queens died a lot in childbirth. They shouldn't be stigmatized.

Lion in Winter: Eleanor of Aquitaine kicked ass
Queen Victoria: Bitch never died, probably made of Steampunk clockworks therefore awesome.

yes

and great film

 

[Recidiva]

Fairies are twats quite a lot of the time.

Still I was a little shocked to find that there was a rationale behind Princess Celestia and Princess Luna being the rulers of a kingdom instead of being queens. I don't know whether it's a case of me being male (there are plenty of good Kings, even if Disney Kings have a habit of being dumb, overprotective or both but to be fair almost all families since the 80s have dumb dad and smart mom (if they are both around) and dumb but well meaning dad if he's alone.) and not noticing the lack of Queens cus I haz penis and don't notice (and being fair often only care in a sort of enemy mine way. I'm fully aware that black super heroes of video game heroes are few and far between but you won't often catch me complaing about the lack of Mexican, Indian, Asian etc etc heroes in those mediums or even noticing half the time cus I can't cosplay as a Mexican any easier than I can a blonde. Wot? Just cus Avengers is a thing doesn't mean I wan to be Nick Fury!)

I'm not agreeing with the rationale per se as I am accepting that they didn't just pull something out of the ether as seems to happen so often when executives are allowed to make decisions.

Yeah, I think there's way too much "Tool Time" where the dufus husband is corrected gently by loving wife. Seriously, why not just pick a smart husband. We can decide now. Make the most of it. I find it distasteful. It doesn't rise to offensive, but it does point out those zones where people dare not tread. They want to be different, they want to be a girl's show. That's nice, but a girl's real world does not exclude male antagonists, male friends and male role models.

A lot of this stuff ends up overcompensatey instead of being wise. Seriously, why not just have male horses. There's no reason to overdo it by doing it wrong the same way that cartoons traditionally do it wrong by having only male protagonists with cartooney girls.

The choices are interesting anyway and I'm glad you looked them up.

Oh man, Fluttershy's smackdown on Rarity's dress is fucking awesome. Project Runway quality.

"But, you know...whatever you want."

 

[Recidiva]

yes

and great film

It's interesting how modern sensibilities of women somehow make it seem like history didn't have kick-ass women and they were always and in all ways oppressed and stupid.

Uh...have you guys read history?

GREAT FILM.

"I'd wear it from my nipples but it would shock the children."

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah I can get what your saying and I do notice the distinct lack of males on the show (and when we do show we're evil. There are three good guys counting spike and two apocalypse level evils, and three or four dicks. Oh well.

It's not exactly like male oriented material is much better though being fair female military members are STILL rare and not the norm so GI Joe, Ninja Turtles, Power Rangers all make sense and really if they had remotely equal numbers shit would look even more bizzarre.

Yeah Fluttershy on that dress was awesome. Never ask her opinion ever.

I also want Pinky Pie's super power. I mean seriously, how does she manage to be everywhere, including places too small for he to fit?!

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah I can get what your saying and I do notice the distinct lack of males on the show (and when we do show we're evil. There are three good guys counting spike and two apocalypse level evils, and three or four dicks. Oh well.

It's not exactly like male oriented material is much better though being fair female military members are STILL rare and not the norm so GI Joe, Ninja Turtles, Power Rangers all make sense and really if they had remotely equal numbers shit would look even more bizzarre.

Yeah Fluttershy on that dress was awesome. Never ask her opinion ever.

I also want Pinky Pie's super power. I mean seriously, how does she manage to be everywhere, including places too small for he to fit?!

Yeah. As a writer though I know that I idealize balance and that's not reality either, so I'm biased. I don't like seeing stereotypical people because I think that's lazy writing, but seriously....stereotypical people exist.

I have always classified the all-male stories as "boobs adjacent" where the women are trophies or goals or the damsel in distress or to be avoided. That viewpoint excluded women because realistically in history, women and men were more segregated. Now we're more integrated and this is a sort of writer's version of trying to provide a lot of role models at once without accessing older material.

In an age of Buffy where there are female warrior archetypes all about, mundane or magical...it's still nice to see an attempt to provide a female-centered point of view that doesn't treat girly stuff as insignificant.

I think Pinky Pie's super power is drugs.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Sterotypes exist because enough people DO act like that particularly when they are in a group of people to make it hold true. I'm not saying I'm completely pro-Steroype but I tend to find most attempts to break away from it mostly unrealistic and at best only excusable because the character is in the story because they are "special".

I like for example that Dashi is clearly the "tomboy" but she's only slightly less excited about getting her pimped out dress than the other girls and that slightly less is probably largely the fact that her ego demands she act above that girly crap than actually having any less interest. She sure as fuck didn't seem to be complaining later.

I see how you could get boobs adjacent from all male stories. It's true. . .sometimes. I think a lot of stories with the token chick though have a chick for the same reason they have the token black guy. Political correctness. They'd gladdly replace the princess with the Sword of Ultimate Power if it wouldn't offend anybody and would sell the same amount of merchandice.

Pinkie's super power may in fact be drugs. Whatever they are I want some. Just so I can take an apple an eat it.

 

[Recidiva]

Sterotypes exist because enough people DO act like that particularly when they are in a group of people to make it hold true. I'm not saying I'm completely pro-Steroype but I tend to find most attempts to break away from it mostly unrealistic and at best only excusable because the character is in the story because they are "special".

I like for example that Dashi is clearly the "tomboy" but she's only slightly less excited about getting her pimped out dress than the other girls and that slightly less is probably largely the fact that her ego demands she act above that girly crap than actually having any less interest. She sure as fuck didn't seem to be complaining later.

I see how you could get boobs adjacent from all male stories. It's true. . .sometimes. I think a lot of stories with the token chick though have a chick for the same reason they have the token black guy. Political correctness. They'd gladdly replace the princess with the Sword of Ultimate Power if it wouldn't offend anybody and would sell the same amount of merchandice.

Pinkie's super power may in fact be drugs. Whatever they are I want some. Just so I can take an apple an eat it.

I think stereotypes exist more as code that is easily accessed and communicated. I don't think they reflect truth so much as they reflect the common symbols that have been overplayed and overpounded. Yeah, it's somewhat of an affirmative action voluntarily undertaken now by some authors to show the powerful in a bad light (Christians and rich people are now easy targets) and whoever they consider to be downtrodden in a more positive light (black people, gays, women) and we've been soaking in it. When people say media has liberal bias, they are not kidding, it literally does. Many people write to preach or to promote social change.

Some of my favorite books though are those authors who strip off the affirmative action and the preaching and just...write what is a good story. So yeah, traditionally a "bad woman" is a bad woman because she fears the loss of her beauty and must drink the blood of the innocent...or wants dark witchy power because she's so downtrodden.

I think my favorite authors are folks like Gillian Flynn or George R. R. Martin. They want to tell a story and they don't give a good damn if their characters are stereotypical or defying stereotype, because they just want to tell a good story. Yeah, some women are going to fear the loss of their beauty 'cause they do. And some women are going to kick ass and my absolute favorite...some women are just going to be the bad guy in the same way that guys can be the bad guy...not because society twisted them or they have a psychological backstory. They're just...bad people...and that's the way it goes. No explanation, just like in reality. No overlay of bogus psychological reasons and political undertones.

That's why I prefer things like Buffy or Supernatural that tend to go out of their way to defy stereotypes and expectations. Buffy made her the hero and Xander the damsel in distress, but otherwise had a balance of male and female archetypes. Supernatural has all the markings of being boobs adjacent but they are not a male-centric show and I don't miss the boobs because they've pretty much got the emotional content I might have missed otherwise. They care about their family and each other. Good enough for me. Don't need the boobs. Good stories do that. All respects to Ellen...who died twice...assholes. Plus, women die around them, it's just true.

In order to write a story you have to have a conflict. And that's why good and sane behavior can be incredibly boring unless it's offset by insanity and awfulness.

 

[Sean Renaud]

See and I guess I just have difference experiences with it. I knew EXACTLY what was meant when I walked into the recruiters office to join the Marines and when I said I 'm Sean REnaud he replied "No you aren't Sean Renaud's a white guy." He'd only spoken to me on the phone and I get that A LOT. There is a reason I don't hang out with my father's side of the family overly much either. (Which is also admittedly why I an relate to all those half vampire, half demon, half Frost Giant characters running around.) I'm not black because I don't act it but no amount of not acting black has the cops leaving me alone. Believe me, I would love for sterotypes not to be true but my experience suggests they are sufficiently real.

I'm not sure I buy the liberal bias so much as reality has a liberal bias to it and even then. Unless I'm missing something liberals are supposed to be peace loving hippies but seriously tell me that the media doesn't portray violence as the first, last and only resort to a disagreement outside a girls cartoon (and clearly they aren't above using violence it's just their second or third option instead of the Go-to.

Liberals are supposed to be we the world and kumbuyya but the closest I can find to proof of that is GI Joe is now the UN not the USA.

Good girls still don't have sex, hell it's a minor miracle Buffy didn't turn into a nun. In order she turned one boy so evil he tried to destroy the world, was humilated by the next one, had a best a comfort relationship with the next one, abused the one after that until he went around the world and went insane!

America is still the center of the universe. No alien ever makes first contact in Europe or China. Hell they are literally more likely to visit to talk to whales than Africans for Mexicans.

While I can allow it for shows that are supposed to be fun and thus don't want you thinking about it I can allow for badguys that are just bad. Generally though you need a reason why you're doing this. Hitler had a reason! Not one we all agree with mind you but a reason.

 

[Recidiva]

See and I guess I just have difference experiences with it. I knew EXACTLY what was meant when I walked into the recruiters office to join the Marines and when I said I 'm Sean REnaud he replied "No you aren't Sean Renaud's a white guy." He'd only spoken to me on the phone and I get that A LOT. There is a reason I don't hang out with my father's side of the family overly much either. (Which is also admittedly why I an relate to all those half vampire, half demon, half Frost Giant characters running around.) I'm not black because I don't act it but no amount of not acting black has the cops leaving me alone. Believe me, I would love for sterotypes not to be true but my experience suggests they are sufficiently real.

I'm not sure I buy the liberal bias so much as reality has a liberal bias to it and even then. Unless I'm missing something liberals are supposed to be peace loving hippies but seriously tell me that the media doesn't portray violence as the first, last and only resort to a disagreement outside a girls cartoon (and clearly they aren't above using violence it's just their second or third option instead of the Go-to.

Liberals are supposed to be we the world and kumbuyya but the closest I can find to proof of that is GI Joe is now the UN not the USA.

Good girls still don't have sex, hell it's a minor miracle Buffy didn't turn into a nun. In order she turned one boy so evil he tried to destroy the world, was humilated by the next one, had a best a comfort relationship with the next one, abused the one after that until he went around the world and went insane!

America is still the center of the universe. No alien ever makes first contact in Europe or China. Hell they are literally more likely to visit to talk to whales than Africans for Mexicans.

While I can allow it for shows that are supposed to be fun and thus don't want you thinking about it I can allow for badguys that are just bad. Generally though you need a reason why you're doing this. Hitler had a reason! Not one we all agree with mind you but a reason.

I've been told who I should be based on stereotypes a lot. I can't be a gamer. I can't be smart. I can't be happily married. Yeah, they happen, but I think that people apply templates to life, don't want to deal with people as individuals, and they use the easiest available template. So the people matching the stereotypes tend to not be able to think their way out of them because of the overlay they believe and think everybody else believes and that it is the only way to be.

No amount of me swinging a broadsword will ever make me a gamer, either, in some people's eyes. No amount of me valuing smart over pretty will make some people think that I only say that because I must not be pretty. Since a lot of my interaction is in fact virtual, it's further complicated by not being able (or willing) to confirm. You can pretty much prove you're black. Online I can't prove that I'm not my husband to some people. I also can't "prove" that whatever they want to believe about me or say about me isn't "true" and in fact...I don't necessarily care. So by confirmation and exclusion bias I just don't interact with the people who don't believe me or don't believe in me. Which isn't the same as being subjected to stop and frisk, but does give me plenty experience with how perception and motive becomes reality for many.

Everybody has reasons. But I'm sick of "You had a triggering trauma that for no explicable reason turned you into a murdering monster when 9 out of 10 times people experience the same trauma and heal"

There's gotta be some other reason, guys. Get creative or leave it out. It's as creative as people saying the Elephant Man's mother was frightened by an elephant. Well...sure...obviously...

 

[Sean Renaud]

I guess I would have to see what cases you're talking about specifically that most people heal from just fine and this guy turns evil but still real life. There were LOTS of Germans, hating Jews was in Vogue at the time you still only got one Hitler out of it.

While we're on the Nazi subject I would argue that Magneto came out if anything a tiny bit more tolerant than most would have and the thing that made him different was being a mutant, an incredibly powerful mutant at that, and thus being in a position to DO something about it. Frankly it's interesting there aren't (or weren't back when the Civil Rights movement was a thing and not a memory) more black villains. I can tell you honestly that if I was say. . . Storm you'd turn your hose or your dogs on me all of once. Then I'd flood your fucking city and zap anybody stupid enough to come out onto the roof to avoid drowning.

 

[Recidiva]

I guess I would have to see what cases you're talking about specifically that most people heal from just fine and this guy turns evil but still real life. There were LOTS of Germans, hating Jews was in Vogue at the time you still only got one Hitler out of it.

While we're on the Nazi subject I would argue that Magneto came out if anything a tiny bit more tolerant than most would have and the thing that made him different was being a mutant, an incredibly powerful mutant at that, and thus being in a position to DO something about it. Frankly it's interesting there aren't (or weren't back when the Civil Rights movement was a thing and not a memory) more black villains. I can tell you honestly that if I was say. . . Storm you'd turn your hose or your dogs on me all of once. Then I'd flood your fucking city and zap anybody stupid enough to come out onto the roof to avoid drowning.

Okay, I'll give another example. I'm chronically ill but the common stereotype is "You don't look sick, you can't be sick" and "You're just faking to get attention." These aren't true stereotypes. They're just easy, lazy ways to not care about other people. That's why I think stereotypes aren't "true" but that they're just ways to avoid being interested in another human being's nuances because an easy, lazy rule that keeps people from being involved or interested, plus makes them feel superior for having "outsmarted" the bad group they're stigmatizing. It has no downside because if they apply confirmation bias by saying other people "fall for" believing that people say they are who they are...then they have to think and care and fuck that.

In your case, are some black males assholes? Sure. Are you? I mean, enough to be accosted by police? If you say no, then I believe no.

In my case, are some people faking being ill? Sure. Am I? Hell no. But I'm accosted by other human beings who feel they should teach me a thing or two about being a faker and trying to get sympathy.

Is it easy for people to blame "black people" and "sick people" for all the wrongs in the world? Sure, just look at the Republican party. It sells.

One Hitler would have been of no use if he couldn't tap into wells of cultural belief without substance.

EVERYBODY knew there were plenty black villains...all average height, average build and wearing a hoodie.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Okay. I see your point. I still disagree with you but I see where your logic comes from.

I'm not entirely sold there is a such thing as a "true" sterotype or not. Certainly not all military personell act the same but with a little practice you can usually sort out the guys who are in a room with very few clues.

Nor do all REpublicans act the same. There is a world of difference between a Vetteman and a Colonel Hogan or a Michelle Bachman and Romney (real Romney not candidate Romney that guy was a douche) but you have no problem making blanket statements because they hold true often enough that if you don't have time it's a "safe" assumption.

Yes, ideally everybody should be judged on their own merit. Maybe that blonde girl with the dog in her purse is actually a big DnD fan and wants to have sex so kinky I'll get kicked of the internet for discussing it here. But unless she's the only woman in the room I should leave Paris Hilton alone. It's only prudent and I'm neither immortal nor able to ground hog day until I've met and judged everybody on their merits.

 

[Recidiva]

Okay. I see your point. I still disagree with you but I see where your logic comes from.

I'm not entirely sold there is a such thing as a "true" sterotype or not. Certainly not all military personell act the same but with a little practice you can usually sort out the guys who are in a room with very few clues.

Nor do all REpublicans act the same. There is a world of difference between a Vetteman and a Colonel Hogan or a Michelle Bachman and Romney (real Romney not candidate Romney that guy was a douche) but you have no problem making blanket statements because they hold true often enough that if you don't have time it's a "safe" assumption.

Yes, ideally everybody should be judged on their own merit. Maybe that blonde girl with the dog in her purse is actually a big DnD fan and wants to have sex so kinky I'll get kicked of the internet for discussing it here. But unless she's the only woman in the room I should leave Paris Hilton alone. It's only prudent and I'm neither immortal nor able to ground hog day until I've met and judged everybody on their merits.

Well, let me point out all the people who think they've gotten others sorted out on their little system who are dead wrong.

Stereotypes affect and shape our world, not because they're right, but because they work in shutting out other groups so you don't need to worry about them.

I try to worry about other groups and other people, but I can only meet one person at a time and deal with them with what they give me, which might not even be them, but what they "think" other people want to see.

I'd ignore Paris Hilton.

 

[Recidiva]

Hee hee...

"I'm the world champion of being quiet the longest! Sound fun?"

"I lose!"
"Me too!"
"Me three!"

 

[Sean Renaud]

Hush now Quiet now is one of the best songs in the series and this series has a LOT of pretty good ear bugs but that one. DAMN. I think it took me two weeks to stop it. Thank the eleven frozen hells I have no children and all the younglings in my family are generally on the far side of the country cus I'd rock out with that all the time.

I also love how to call a Chicken. Even my friend who doesn't like the show caught that line and after that it became an inside joke at DnD sessions whenever we were looking for something.

 

[Recidiva]

Hush now Quiet now is one of the best songs in the series and this series has a LOT of pretty good ear bugs but that one. DAMN. I think it took me two weeks to stop it. Thank the eleven frozen hells I have no children and all the younglings in my family are generally on the far side of the country cus I'd rock out with that all the time.

I also love how to call a Chicken. Even my friend who doesn't like the show caught that line and after that it became an inside joke at DnD sessions whenever we were looking for something.

Having had a little girl with little girl sleepovers, yes. It's like that.

"Cockawhatnow?"

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah I assume yu're right that people who think they have it sorted out don't but hey, it's not like the alternative REALLY has any major benefits to it.

As for little girls they act like that?
But once they get older they don't have lingerie pillow fights do they? Stupid media all the fun stuff you tell me are lies and all the sad things you tell me are true!

Have I mentioned yet that if you hurt my feelings I'll tell Fluttershy? Cus seriously, shy pony will dress you down, be a dragon, be a cockatrice, be a close personal friend. Fluttershy will win because she must win.

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah I assume yu're right that people who think they have it sorted out don't but hey, it's not like the alternative REALLY has any major benefits to it.

As for little girls they act like that?
But once they get older they don't have lingerie pillow fights do they? Stupid media all the fun stuff you tell me are lies and all the sad things you tell me are true!

Have I mentioned yet that if you hurt my feelings I'll tell Fluttershy? Cus seriously, shy pony will dress you down, be a dragon, be a cockatrice, be a close personal friend. Fluttershy will win because she must win.

There is a drawback to being a complete asshole. People will go out of their way to hurt you, spit in your coffee, not help, sabotage you. Of course that reinforces that you're living in a world of assholes.

There are actual benefits to being a decent human being. People help you, will go out of their way to be kind, get you coffee, help on your way. That reinforces that not everyone in the world is an ass.

Yes, they act like that.

The pillow fight thing is porn related. I've never seen one, either during my growing up or my child's growing up, other than making fun of the fact that people think that's what we do.

We read Amityville Horror and dared each other to wait in a closet for 10 minutes in the total dark and look for red eyes! Lots of screaming.

I want Fluttershy on my side.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah. . .if that's being an asshole in your world you live in a world more sugary than Ponyville. That's just being a standard edition human being completely with fully standard baggage.

And nope, you cannot haz Fluttershy. There aren't a whole lot of problems that can't be solved by her. Given what we've seen later she could probably have TALKED Nightmare Moon into reconsidering her plans. As a concession you can have Pinkie and lets face it, she's pretty much awesome coated awesome.

Oh and apparently I taught Sweetiebelle to cook. It goes about as well as expected.

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah. . .if that's being an asshole in your world you live in a world more sugary than Ponyville. That's just being a standard edition human being completely with fully standard baggage.

And nope, you cannot haz Fluttershy. There aren't a whole lot of problems that can't be solved by her. Given what we've seen later she could probably have TALKED Nightmare Moon into reconsidering her plans. As a concession you can have Pinkie and lets face it, she's pretty much awesome coated awesome.

Oh and apparently I taught Sweetiebelle to cook. It goes about as well as expected.

You are salty, I am sweet.

If it comes up I'll respect her choices.

Also...why the hell are ponies raising pigs? I really may not want to know this answer.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I am not salty. I'm sour.

I'm pretty sure these pony's are omnivores and just don't talk about it very often because it would cause a lot of awkward questions. I mean we know for sure that they eat bread which requires milk and eggs (which explains the cows and chickens) and thus far we haven't seen any bacon or ham or anything but they raise pigs! Oh we know from later they drink milk and eat eggs as well. I've yet to see them eat meat but I'm betting they do. It would make no less sense then why the sit at desks and have trains and cups and books and lot of other shit that seems to be really hard to use unless you're a) a unicorn (Hmm is it a unicorn or an unicorn. The latter sounds wrong but maybe it's like a hour or an hour, fuck the rules do what sounds right?) or b) Pinky Pie and the rules apply to her precisely as much as she wants them to at any particular moment and not an ounce more.

 

[Torinona]

Eleanor was da bomb, married kings and made them too!

Great movie and I had the amazing opportunity of seeing the play with Laurence Fishburne in the Peter O'Toole role and Stockard Channing as Eleanor.

Lion in Winter: Eleanor of Aquitaine kicked ass