Men, emotions and mental health

[EmilyMiller]

I often get told that I write girlie-men. Men who cry. Men who don’t immediately take charge. Men who might be a bit lost or even broken. Oh and men who notice the dress cut, fabric, coloration and fastenings of the FMCs attire. Mustn’t forget that.

I got a comment the other day saying that suppressing emotions is a major factor in men having mental health challenges. They were challenging multiple people who had said something along the lines of the above in comments. That made me think.

I get annoyed when women get treated as a homogenous whole. Just look at the female authors on AH, lots of diffeent personality types.

So I don’t want to make the same mistake about men. But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

Em

 

[onehitwanda]

But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

I can't think of a single salient reason why it wouldn't be.

Some of my best friends in my youth were men who were open about their emotions; who weren't so drunk on masculinity that they wouldn't admit when they were sad and just needed a hug. Men who'd cry because they'd been cheated on or dumped, or because their dad was dying and their world was ending, or because it was just all too much and they just needed someone to hold them and tell them it would be okay.

From what I've been told - the biggest problem is this... I don't want to say indoctriniation, but it sometimes feels that it is - that a man has to solve problems by himself and to ask for help is weak. A school friend of mine shot himself when he was twenty two over a girl. A University classmate hung himself from a rugby post crossbar over a failed exam. I've had a man I managed break down in tears on a one to one with me due to untreated PTSD.

They were either to scared, or simply just didn't know how to reach out and ask for help.

Men who label other men as girlish or weak or pussies or any one of the million other words they have to belittle the different... well. I feel two things for them; contempt and sadness. And I have no time for them.

Oh. A soapbox. I'll climb down now.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am, but I can't speak for other men.

I've been told, by women, that I'm unusually in touch with my feminine side, compared to other men they know, so that's good enough for me.

 

[MrPixel]

Yes. IMO.

I seem to fit your model, apparently. I do cry, appropriately... for a guy... at Tom Hanks movie endings. I dress my wife, since she's not a good judge at what flatters her. If I let her go clothes shopping by herself she inevitably picks something dowdy. She looks way too good to let her get away with it.

And I had, oh, roughly five years of therapy, mostly related to problems with relationships. It was right after that when my wife of 34 years and I connected. It apparently worked.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

Yes. In general. Then again, on the other hand, I once got dumped by a girlfriend of eight months after she saw me cry because I had to take my cat (that I've had for eighteen years) to the vet to be put down. So...

And, yes, many of the guys in my life had similar experiences.

 

[onehitwanda]

Then again, on the other hand, I once got dumped by a girlfriend of eight months after she saw me cry because I had to take my cat (that I've had for eighteen years) to the vet to be put down. So...

And, yes, many of the guys in my life had similar experiences.

This makes me so angry.

 

[MrPixel]

I once got dumped by a girlfriend of eight months after she saw me cry because I had to take my cat (that I've had for eighteen years) to the vet to be put down.

She dumped you?! Given the evident reaction I would've shown her the door so fast it would've taken a week for her shadow to catch up.

 

[ronde]

I think men have and are capable of expressing all the same basic emotions as women. If a man doesn't find a way to express those emotions it can certainly lead to mental issues. I think that believing men don't have and express those emotions is a misconception by some women based upon the differences between how men and women express those emotions.

It's a generalization, but it happens to be true that most women will seek out another woman to express those emotions. It's also true that women are usually more sympathetic to the emotions of others, men or women. That makes women seem to be more emotional than men, when in reality they are not.

It does depend upon the age of the man, but men will not usually tell other men about their emotions for fear of being seen as weak or as you state, of being seen as "girlie men". Most of us learn almost from birth that men who express their emotions to anyone are probably too feminine to really be considered to be men, in other words, "gay". That doesn't mean we don't have emotions or that we aren't "in touch" with them. It just means we will attempt to work those emotions out by ourselves rather than confessing them to another person. It's doing that that causes the mental problems men have, and also proliferates the stereotype that men either don't "feel" or that we keep everything bottled up inside us.

I think some women contribute to that stereotype as well. Many women, though they might not state such to their friends, do not think highly of a man who expresses his emotions. Men know this and it makes it difficult for them to tell a woman of their emotions. Given the right listener, men will talk about their emotions.

 

[SimonDoom]

But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

Em

I would say "yes," in the sense that it's good for a man to know himself, emotionally. But knowing oneself emotionally is not the same thing as expressing emotion. I don't necessarily believe that reining in one's emotions causes psychological problems. Most men I've known have been much less likely to cry than women I've known. I almost never cry, for example. I can't remember the last time I cried in front of anybody. Whether or not it's a healthy way to be, it is realistic if in your stories you present men as somewhat less likely to cry or to be sentimental. On the other hand, men can be prone to manifest anger (although in my experience women can be as well).

 

[alohadave]

But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

It's a huge problem that many of us aren't in touch with them. It's a systemic, cultural problem, and there is no easy way out of it.

I know it's how I was raised, and it's god-damned difficult to break out of it. And at my age, and my experiences with CSA, I doubt that I'll ever break out of the patterns, because I've been holding them down for so long. There are times where I know I should be feeling emotional, but I can't feel anything.

So, write men with emotions, men who are able to feel and able to express them.

 

[Emotional]

By my title, I'm incredibly emotional.

None of my friends would know it right away though because I am the typical man's man.

And stronger mentally than most people.

 

[ffdan]

As a guy in a profession with lots of type a personalities and manly men I can honestly say it’s much better to be in touch with my emotions and have empathy. The bravado can be sickening and not healthy from what I’ve seen. A male can be strong, assertive yet not messed up with the emotional baggage that comes with acting how they think they should to fit in society.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

I'll offer another perspective. I was raised as a dour Midwesterner. For me, it's not so much that I fear appearing weak if I express emotions, it's that I don't want to burden other people with whatever I have going on emotionally. I recognize that some of the feelings I'm in touch with arise from whiny entitlement, and once I put any reasonable thought into them, I shame myself into clamming up.

I am otherwise empathic, and try to respond helpfully to the emotional issues of others. But my 'problems?' I won't make other people lose seconds off their lives by listening.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Yes. In general. Then again, on the other hand, I once got dumped by a girlfriend of eight months after she saw me cry because I had to take my cat (that I've had for eighteen years) to the vet to be put down. So...

And, yes, many of the guys in my life had similar experiences.

May she get scratched by a hundred stray cats. And hissed at by a bobcat.

 

[Thefireflies]

The whole trying to characterise gender into stereotypical behaviours is baffling. If I’ve learnt anything in life it’s that everyone acts as an individual, more likely based on their personality traits (like you observed in the AH) rather than according to their gender. On the other hand, culture may influence how someone feels they are ‘supposed’ to conduct themselves in society, based on their gender, but even then there’s no rules set in stone, where everything’s a matter of perception and context.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I often get told that I write girlie-men. Men who cry. Men who don’t immediately take charge. Men who might be a bit lost or even broken. Oh and men who notice the dress cut, fabric, coloration and fastenings of the FMCs attire. Mustn’t forget that.

I got a comment the other day saying that suppressing emotions is a major factor in men having mental health challenges. They were challenging multiple people who had said something along the lines of the above in comments. That made me think.

I get annoyed when women get treated as a homogenous whole. Just look at the female authors on AH, lots of diffeent personality types.

So I don’t want to make the same mistake about men. But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

Em

A lot of it is generational. That's true both for your characters and for the men reading the story.

I've always been in touch with my emotions; maybe too in touch. I write men that cry, etc., too, and I get the same criticism. But a lot of those guys that make the criticism, I know, are from an older generation than me. And I also know that, even for late GenX, I was seen as a bit of a crybaby when I was younger; not because it was inappropriate to be upset, but because my peers in the American South were still being taught that they should suppress their emotions back then. Any hint of weakness was seen almost as mental illness. And mental illness itself? That meant you belonged in a loony bin.

It's good for guys to be in touch with their emotions. But in the older generations, say 45+, it's also much rarer than someone who's even in their mid-30s. And in 65+, it's often seen as not just "womanly," but weak to the point of being dangerous to be around.

 

[NotWise]

Write fiction the way you want to write fiction, but...

What het men and women find attractive in each other is often their differences. For men, it's women's feminine features that are attractive. For women, it's usually men's masculine features that are attractive. Women are usually thought of as emotive and "in touch," so male characters who are emotive and "in touch" may come off as more feminine and less attractive.

I try to make my male characters walk a fine line between too connected and too insensitive, but find your own balance. It's probably a mistake to depend on reader's comments--or writer's comments.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Write fiction the way you want to write fiction, but...

What het men and women find attractive in each other is often their differences. For men, it's women's feminine features that are attractive. For women, it's usually men's masculine features that are attractive. Women are usually thought of as emotive and "in touch," so male characters who are emotive and "in touch" may come off as more feminine and less attractive.

I’m not so sure. I’m attracted to women who most guys would also think cute. So I get that.

But neither my long-term fuck buddy at college, nor my fiancé are really handsome. I don’t really like handsome guys, that often equates with assholedom in my experience. At the risk of sounding worthy, I go for character in guys. Decent people, who are smart (ideally very smart), kind, supportive, understanding and funny. And a bit kinky is nice…

I suppose I tend to like bigger guys - my boyfriend is a foot taller. Then most guys are a lot taller than me.

Em

 

[Djmac1031]

From what I've been told - the biggest problem is this... I don't want to say indoctriniation, but it sometimes feels that it is - that a man has to solve problems by himself and to ask for help is weak.

Not gonna claim to speak for "all men."

But fuck me if that wasn't my father's philosophy. One he passed on to me.

One I've been slowly trying to shed for decades.

"Grow up, be a MAN."
"MEN don't CRY. Stop being a pussy."
"Toughen up. Get over it."

I'd be willing to bet I'm not the only guy here who grew up with this kind of thinking.

 

[Lifestyle66]

We all lead different lives and have had different experiences. In some cases, expressing emotions is healthy, and in others it's not.

In my life experiences, I've found that expressing and giving into emotions (in general) can have very negative outcomes.

My father endured some EXTREMELY traumatic events at Iwo Jima, and he never talked about them until over forty years later. When those memories surfaced, he merely calmly mentioned them in passing as if "so what, it happened." My mother had a similar unemotional attitude toward everything, and I never saw her cry, either. Her attitude toward pain and trauma was "Get over it!" And growing up with that attitude has served me well, helping me to endure some things which caused others to break down into indecisive tools, needing to be directed.

In my experience in the military, it's emotions which cause excessive destruction and pain. They put very destructive tools into the hands of emotional people and expect them to act thoughtfully. Human rights abuses are then caused by those soldiers reacting negatively to the things around them when they seek "revenge" or depend too much on hatred to get through the day. Emotions drive those reactions, ... with destructive tools in hand! I found it best to "Get over it!" and not react emotionally, merely looking for the best logical solution to the next problem.

So, I can't relate to those stories and characters demonstrating what I see as excessive emotions. That's why I don't care for the LW BTB stories, because to me, a cheating wife is a "W.T.F., get over it, and make a decision to move on!" And I'm not even trying to change that which makes me stronger.

No one can write the perfect story which appeals to everyone, because we are all different.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I’m not so sure. I’m attracted to women who most guys would also think cute. So I get that.

But neither my long-term fuck buddy at college, nor my fiancé are really handsome. I don’t really like handsome guys, that often equates with assholedom in my experience. At the risk of sounding worthy, I go for character in guys. Decent people, who are smart (ideally very smart), kind, supportive, understanding and funny. And a bit kinky is nice…

I suppose I tend to like bigger guys - my boyfriend is a foot taller. Then most guys are a lot taller than me.

Em

I think part of that might be generational, too. The notion of what masculinity is, especially with the notion of toxic masculinity in the last decade or so, has changed. There are some things that I think are at least partially biological (or so culturally ingrained that they might as well be), like height, but nurturing, loving, caring men that are open with their emotions seem to do a LOT better among younger folks than hyper-masculine "Chads." Not saying there aren't women that like those guys, either, but looking at dating TikTok/Twitter/etc. shows a big disconnect in what women and men that are unlucky in love (who are going to be the ones talking about it) think the opposite sex wants as opposed to what they actually want.

The not-quite-incel types seem to think that the best way to get a woman is to get rich, buff, aggressive, etc. and listen to PUA gurus. The most jaded women seem to think that playing games to keep interest, stringing guys along, manipulate them, etc. are the best way to keep a guy. There's a sense of each side wanting different things from a potential partner and trying to trick/force them to submit. They're both taking unhealthy patterns from earlier generations and making dating into a zero-sum game; and some of the older generations encourage that, because that was "the way" to get it done, and they don't want to face up to the fact that it's probably why they ended up divorced or stuck in unhappy marriages.

And then the ones, both men and women, that seem to be happy in their relationships talk about trust, emotional connection, shared goals and interests, healthy boundaries, etc. Those might still result in divorce/breakup, of course, but even those tend to be healthier, with less "salt the earth" kinds of behavior.

God, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that shit anymore.

 

[NotWise]

I’m not so sure. I’m attracted to women who most guys would also think cute. So I get that.

But neither my long-term fuck buddy at college, nor my fiancé are really handsome. I don’t really like handsome guys, that often equates with assholedom in my experience. At the risk of sounding worthy, I go for character in guys. Decent people, who are smart (ideally very smart), kind, supportive, understanding and funny. And a bit kinky is nice…

I suppose I tend to like bigger guys - my boyfriend is a foot taller. Then most guys are a lot taller than me.

Em

Every woman is different, but I don't think "handsome" has much to do with "masculine." The V-shaped torso is the physical feature that women most commonly identified as attractive in a cross-cultural study (for men, it was the female hourglass). Big, rough hands are attractive features. A sense of humor is an attractive feature. Probably, the will and ability to be supportive and protective is attractive.

Maybe I'm jaded. I think most women want the man to be sensitive to their emotional state--not to his own.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Maybe I'm jaded. I think most women want the man to be sensitive the their emotional state--not with his own.

Yeah, that’s jaded. And really, really sad.

Do you need a hug?

Em

 

[Lifestyle66]

Every woman is different, but I don't think "handsome" has much to do with "masculine." The V-shaped torso is the physical feature that women most commonly identified as attractive in a cross-cultural study (for men, it was the female hourglass). Big, rough hands are attractive features. A sense of humor is an attractive feature. Probably, the will and ability to be supportive and protective is attractive.

Maybe I'm jaded. I think most women want the man to be sensitive to their emotional state--not to his own.

I know one guy who is highly emotional and sensitive. He's trying to find women to date, because he needs their emotional support and understanding. He can't find any to date, probably because they see him as too needy.

What happens when BOTH of the couple need emotional support at the same time?

 

[onehitwanda]

What happens when BOTH of the couple need emotional support at the same time?

needing emotional support does not mean being unable to function. One would hope that such a couple would talk to one another and support one another and find strength together.