Memoires of a Geisha

[infernal_contessa]

Forgive me if this has been done before.

My question is simply this- for those of you with a submissive streak that have seen it... did the film inspire you at all?

 

[neonflux]

I am sorry, didn't see the film. Would love to hear your thoughts. Although heard it was quite beautiful, couldn't bring myself to see it because of the book.

Found the later full of western stereotypes that are utterly false. Geisha houses were run by powerful women, not men. While Geisha performed for paying customers, they had the freedom to choose their lovers. Rather than being victimized (won't use the term submissive here as I see that as a term of great respect), they were usually astute and very independent business women, the role of a Geisha being one of the only avenues open to women who wanted to remain independent from men during the Tokugawa period... It took years of training to become one, the word translates literally to mean "artistic or talented person."

BTW, went to and have an "audience/guest plate" from one of the very last graduation ceremonies held for traditional Geisha in Tokyo (1976)

Neon

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Forgive me if this has been done before.

My question is simply this- for those of you with a submissive streak that have seen it... did the film inspire you at all?

The book Memoirs of a Geisha was a Christmas gift several years ago and the DVD I purchased and have viewed a few times since its release. I watched it with immense interest and I can honestly say I enjoyed getting lost in it for awhile . I can't say any of the characters 'inspired' me. The Mentor character exhibited a independent style with an apparent credible degree of quality. Though if I really consider the story and parts that are based on Historical fact its a very disturbing tale indeed. Buying children from the poor with a genetic lottery as to whether they will be whores or sophisticated entertainers/artisan is not something we have to contend with in most Countries.

As far as ritual is concerned its very appealing though the movie barely scrapes the surface for me in that department. The main reason being my ongoing passion with Japan and the fact over time 'we' have become very well acquainted.

You are not the first to pose a parallel between Geisha and submissives . Its an interesting concept to me if kept lightweight . There is an article I posted in February, 'Rediscovering and Modernizing The Geisha : New Submissive Perspectives In Contemporary BDSM' here if your interested in further reading .

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

BTW, went to and have a, "audience/guest plates from one of the very last graduation ceremonies held for traditional Geisha in Tokyo (1976)

Neon

'massive envy' respectfully I don't like you Neon......

 

[neonflux]

'massive envy' respectfully I don't like you Neon......

sigh! especially after learning that you speak some Japanese and have studied tea ceremony!!! doshite watashi no koto wa kirai desuka? or, if it's OK to speak informally, doshite watashi no koto ga kira no ka? sigh again!

 

[myinnerslut]

i really liked the book and liked the movie, but it didnt inspire me.... i was very envious of all the pretty komonos though

 

[NemoAlia]

I am sorry, didn't see the film. Would love to hear your thoughts. Although heard it was quite beautiful, couldn't bring myself to see it because of the book.

Found the later full of western stereotypes that are utterly false. . . .

Really? I thought that the book did a very good job of presenting the geisha houses as led by strong women, of presenting geisha in sharp contrast to prostitutes as far as independence of choice, of detailing the continuing education required in several arts, and of presenting geisha as skilled performers.

I don't have much in the way of Japanese education, but I've read a couple of non-fictional accounts, notably Autobiography of a Geisha by Sayo Masuda. The fictionalized account by Arthur Golden seemed to jive fairly well with the "true stories."

 

[FurryFury]

I enjoyed the book at great deal. In my opinion it did not make the men, the head of the households of Geisha at all. I was rather amazed that this white dude from Tennessee had written it.

I heard the movie sucked so I didn't see it for a long while. When I did get it on DVD, I thought it was pretty good and, as is important to me, faithful to the book.

I am inspired by this and other cultures but not as a submissive. I am and always have been drawn to Japan, and Geisha of a certain historical period. Some have told me it's because in a previous life I was Geisha. LOL.

I'm envious of Miss Rebecca and Neonflux. *green eyes*

Fury

 

[gargouille]

Readers may also want to check out the following book: Geisha by Liza Dalby

When I was living in Japan just after college I took lessons in tea ceremony from a retired Geisha. The stories she told us (her students, that is. we were allowed to call around once a week to visit.) were wonderful! She suggested the Dalby book. One of the other students told me she was mentioned and interviewed for it. I have a guess which Lady she was, but I never asked, out of respect. It seems that if she wanted us to know who she was she would have told us.

But anyway, geisha are traditionally very strong women. Within the confines of the karyukai they are somewhat submissive to the elders of the society, however, they are not traditional submissive Japanese women. My sub was attracted to the discipline of the traditional geisha life, as in, artisistic discipline to become a dancer or whatever. We were both entranced by the cinematogrophy of the film. The movie was visually stunning, but not very historical. I felt the book was (Memoirs, not Geisha) was a very romanticized version of history, and the movie was not very faithful to the book, which means it was even further from the history.

 

[FurryFury]

Yes, I've read that one too. *smiles*

Fury

 

[infernal_contessa]

I don't think I necessarily compared geisha with submissives... or even found a similarity between them. Subspace was MY response to the film, but I don't know that that means there's a correlation, in the larger view.

I don't think that Geisha are submissive, necessarily. I think they are strong women who, for the sake of their art, their career, and their future, play to the natural dominant tendencies that are bred into Japanese men (this is how I've always viewed Geisha, not just from this film. I studied them as well, when I was younger). I think it is an art form, in their case, rather than a lifestyle choice, in our case.

My thread was an inquiry as to whether the film INSPIRED the submissive in you.

It did in me. Watching some of the techniques used, some of the disciplines used in that film, made me take note of things that would make my Dom very happy. It inspired a desire to be more graceful, more disciplined. It made me want to learn to seduce once more... as it seems I've forgotten the gift.

It made me want to be like the Geisha- powerful, beautiful, graceful, gifted, intelligent, artistic... and yet, all of this, would be a gift to Sir.

I don't know that that makes any sense...

 

[FurryFury]

I don't think I necessarily compared geisha with submissives... or even found a similarity between them. Subspace was MY response to the film, but I don't know that that means there's a correlation, in the larger view.

I don't think that Geisha are submissive, necessarily. I think they are strong women who, for the sake of their art, their career, and their future, play to the natural dominant tendencies that are bred into Japanese men (this is how I've always viewed Geisha, not just from this film. I studied them as well, when I was younger). I think it is an art form, in their case, rather than a lifestyle choice, in our case.

My thread was an inquiry as to whether the film INSPIRED the submissive in you.

It did in me. Watching some of the techniques used, some of the disciplines used in that film, made me take note of things that would make my Dom very happy. It inspired a desire to be more graceful, more disciplined. It made me want to learn to seduce once more... as it seems I've forgotten the gift.

It made me want to be like the Geisha- powerful, beautiful, graceful, gifted, intelligent, artistic... and yet, all of this, would be a gift to Sir.

I don't know that that makes any sense...

I think that makes sense and that it is quite a beautiful way of looking at the film.

Fury

 

[neonflux]

gargouille, now I follow FuryFurry in being envious (although eyes were already green )

contessa, you have just made me want to see the film

I don't think I necessarily compared geisha with submissives... or even found a similarity between them. Subspace was MY response to the film, but I don't know that that means there's a correlation, in the larger view.

I don't think that Geisha are submissive, necessarily. I think they are strong women who, for the sake of their art, their career, and their future, play to the natural dominant tendencies that are bred into Japanese men (this is how I've always viewed Geisha, not just from this film. I studied them as well, when I was younger). I think it is an art form, in their case, rather than a lifestyle choice, in our case.

My thread was an inquiry as to whether the film INSPIRED the submissive in you.

It did in me. Watching some of the techniques used, some of the disciplines used in that film, made me take note of things that would make my Dom very happy. It inspired a desire to be more graceful, more disciplined. It made me want to learn to seduce once more... as it seems I've forgotten the gift.

It made me want to be like the Geisha- powerful, beautiful, graceful, gifted, intelligent, artistic... and yet, all of this, would be a gift to Sir.

I don't know that that makes any sense...

 

[gargouille]

infernal, I think my sub had a similar response to you. She didn't get a submissive vibe, but as I said, she was attracted to the discipline of the life.

neon, there's days that I'd kill, or at least maime severely to be back there.

 

[CutieMouse]

Several close friends said I just HAD to see the movie, because they thought I'd identify with it, yadayadayada...

I walked away from it, remembering how very cruel women can be to each other.

As for the movie touching me in a submissive way, I didn't really feel any connection. The points about being "powerful, beautiful, graceful, gifted, intelligent, artistic", etc, were visible in the film, and I can see how they might relate to a submissive's role, but I already strive to be all of those things, for myself, because I am at my best when I feel strong, graceful, gifted, beautiful, intelligent, artistic, and a few other things...

 

[infernal_contessa]

gargouille, now I follow FuryFurry in being envious (although eyes were already green )

contessa, you have just made me want to see the film

*blush*

Thank you...

 

[infernal_contessa]

infernal, I think my sub had a similar response to you. She didn't get a submissive vibe, but as I said, she was attracted to the discipline of the life.

neon, there's days that I'd kill, or at least maime severely to be back there.

That's exactly it- it wasn't submissive... but it inspired that submission.

 

[Marquis]

I enjoyed the movie very much and certainly found the role of Geisha to be a submissive one.

It cracks me up to see people dance around that word.

There seems to be a real love/hate relationship with the term "submissive" in the BDSM community. I found the geishas to be truly beautiful examples of submissive women, with a real artful understanding of the position.

 

[Etoile]

Marquis, you seem very confident that your understanding of geisha culture is how it really is. Can I ask where your knowledge comes from?

 

[Marquis]

Marquis, you seem very confident that your understanding of geisha culture is how it really is. Can I ask where your knowledge comes from?

Sure, 145 minutes of watching a Chinese actress play a Japanese role in an American movie.

Oh yeah, and a few days in Kyoto.

In any case I don't think I ever claimed that my understanding of Geisha culture is how it really is, I think it was pretty clear that I was responding to the portrayal of the characters in the movie.

Which, knowing something about Japanese culture, I believe was accurate enough in regards to my claim of geishas being submissive.

 

[Etoile]

In any case I don't think I ever claimed that my understanding of Geisha culture is how it really is, I think it was pretty clear that I was responding to the portrayal of the characters in the movie.

Hrm. You seem to be right. Not sure what I was on about at 8:00am, sorry about that.