Mechanism for removing reported stories.

[PastMaster]

Just avoid underage issues. Not at all complicated

Thats the point there were no underage issues according to the site rules - thats what makes it complicated.

 

[lovecraft68]

For anyone here who's been publishing for sale, you might be aware that some platforms that accept Mastercard have to be very strict about any words that imply non consent so they have filters for those words.

Now the filters have no context, for example if you wrote "Mary was forced to make a decision" it will be kicked back because of the word forced. I had an excerpt that kept getting the boot and couldn't figure it out and went to the site and was told when I said he was snuffling at her neck like a bloodhound, the system saw "Snuff"

Now that's a major PIA and tiresome to have to deal with, but its the example of how you enforce a rule if you're serious about it. You err to the side of caution and let people get pissed and deal with it. The method isn't letting a ton of shit through then removing it later when someone reports it, or is as often the case, not at all.

What this thread proves beyond a doubt is they need to just drop their rape and torture rules because they don't care about it, its fine. I really don't care what their rule is or isn't, but the talking out of two sides of their mouths is sickening as is the people who keep defending it.

In EB's post he started out appalled, then you could see where he realized he was about to say the site made a mistake and had to start justifying. You'd really think there was money involved here the way people continue to refuse to admit this site's rules are a joke and their enforcement of them an even bigger one. Trust me, every one here could leave tomorrow and they wouldn't notice we were gone. What's with this nonsense of acting like they're one of the politicians you mindlessly vote for who can do no wrong?

 

[djrip]

Thats the point there were no underage issues according to the site rules - thats what makes it complicated.

I do find it annoying the way so many people here, like Simon who I usually find to be the very voice of reason, seem to be dismissing you without apparently reading what you've written. Like, you write a fairly long explanation of how your story wasn't about underage sex, and then someone pipes up with 'just don't write about underage sex!'
To be fair, I think they're tired of hearing about it, because none of them can do anything about it, and you keep complaining about it as if someone can do something.
But I feel ya. It sounds like your rejected stuff shouldn't have been rejected.

 

[PastMaster]

I do find it annoying the way so many people here, like Simon who I usually find to be the very voice of reason, seem to be dismissing you without apparently reading what you've written. Like, you write a fairly long explanation of how your story wasn't about underage sex, and then someone pipes up with 'just don't write about underage sex!'
To be fair, I think they're tired of hearing about it, because none of them can do anything about it, and you keep complaining about it as if someone can do something.
But I feel ya. It sounds like your rejected stuff shouldn't have been rejected.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Some of us just don't know. I've never reported a story, and I doubt I ever would.

Also, a fair number of us were at work.

Of course there will be weird glitches. Just get over it, don't complain, and don't submit stories that push the limit. It's so simple

Simon, you know I enjoy arguing with you, but c'mon man, reread what you just wrote.
If there's no consistency, how is anybody supposed to know ahead of time what would push the limit?

You had a story rejected for a misunderstanding. I had a story rejected for something similar. But without some measure consistency in the application of the rules, there would be no way to figure out what the mistake was, fix it, or explain to Laurel that it was her misunderstanding.

Honestly, that's why I appreciate that hard clarity on the under 18 rule*, the NonCon rules seem to have much larger grey margins to run afoul of.

*waiting for Lovecraft to call me a sycophant.

 

[PastMaster]

Honestly, that's why I appreciate that hard clarity on the under 18 rule*,

Its not quite as clear as you might think - but I agree it is certainly clearer than the nc. torture rule

 

[lovecraft68]

Just avoid underage issues. Not at all complicated.

This thread isn't about underage. Its about rape, torture, sexual torture and abuse all of which break the rules, but you don't care about those rules. Misogyny rules here, the abuse of women is great for traffic, and the rule is a joke, and not even worth mentioning as you just proved, because you fall right in line with the acceptance of it. You whine incessantly about one rule but breaking the others is okay? Wonder why? I know why because you've never fooled me.

You're arguing with someone who thinks the rules should be enforced, then squeal at the people who want to break them in other threads.

People are judged by the company they keep, what they defend and what they attack. You're defending a blatantly rule breaking story and attacking someone pointing it out.

Good job Simon, now run and check and see how many followers you have and what your scores are, its all that matters to you here. Don't reply because you're going on ignore. I can handle blatant trolls, I can handle assholes and personal attacks, I can deal with the worst people have to offer.

What I don't deal with are self righteous pontificating phonies. I don't deal with the Eddie Haskels of the world. I don't need to see anymore of your smarmy wheedling waffling posts and poorly veiled closet misogyny.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Thats the point there were no underage issues according to the site rules - thats what makes it complicated.

Based on your summary, I don't know why that story would have violated the rules. And I'll say also, that in the instance I had of a story being rejected, I was irritated at the vagueness of the rejection notice and that there was no indication of what the problematic passage was. It took three or four attempts to get it approved.

That being said, there also seems to be a different level of scrutiny when stories are originally submitted, vs when one is reported after publishing. I don't have an explanation for that.

ETA: my story was initially rejected due to the NonCon rules. A recaptured prisoner was being punished via electric shock, and the scene ended with the person passing out. In the next scene, they're awake and ok, but (my best guess) is that Laurel and/or the reader bot assumed the person had been killed. But I rewrote several other things before I figured that out. And, fwiw, that character dies at the end of the series, but not due to the physical effects of what was done.

So, yeah, the scene you were originally complaining about does sound disgusting to me. And nothing I'd want to write or read. But If the victim survived long enough, then [I think (diving into that grey margin)] Laurel sees it less like snuff.

 

[lovecraft68]

Also, a fair number of us were at work.


Simon, you know I enjoy arguing with you, but c'mon man, reread what you just wrote.
If there's no consistency, how is anybody supposed to know ahead of time what would push the limit?

You had a story rejected for a misunderstanding. I had a story rejected for something similar. But without some measure consistency in the application of the rules, there would be no way to figure out what the mistake was, fix it, or explain to Laurel that it was her misunderstanding.

Honestly, that's why I appreciate that hard clarity on the under 18 rule*, the NonCon rules seem to have much larger grey margins to run afoul of.

*waiting for Lovecraft to call me a sycophant.

No, you actually just helped me make a point. One rule is clearer, I still think it can be a little vague, but much more defined. The other is vague on purpose...because they really want that material, but also want to cling to some semblance of ethics for some reason even though its all fiction. The people who get off on the abuse of women are a huge faction here and they'll appeal to them, hence the vagueness. Rule is there for CYA or if anything offends them personally.

Sorry to disappoint you by not attacking you.

If it makes you feel better I targeted the real sycophant here.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

NO NO NO. This is the whole point. You're tilting at windmills. The site doesn't have to do anything. It's one person reviewing all the stories every day. Of course there will be weird glitches. Just get over it, don't complain, and don't submit stories that push the limit. It's so simple. it's not worth complaining about. There's no injustice here. This is a private website run by 2 people. Just avoid underage issues. Not at all complicated.

Why do you perpetuate this claim with such certainty? You are hardly the only one doing it, but still, why? At first I thought that people who have been around for a long time are privy to some things that most of us aren't. But it turns out you all know jack shit, and I don't mean that in an offensive way, just stating the obvious. When it comes to how the website actually works, all anyone here does is making guesses based on common sense, logic and maybe some experience, but that is not even remotely enough for this kind of certainty many people present when it comes to the way Lit works. The best you can say is that the website is being maintained from two accounts - Manu and Laurel, and even this is still a guess. For all we know there could be 10 or 20 actual people who can log on to these two accounts and manage things. That really isn't so hard to believe.
I know you generally mean well, but I find this claim "It's only two people doing all the immense work" given as a response to every valid complaint. We really, really don't know that.

To the OP. There are some very arbitrary ways in how the content is judged as within Lit's rules, or outside of them. The rules themselves are quite clear, yet the part where they are being enforced... yeah.

On the other hand, I will agree with what few among the posters said: There is no point in posting the complaint here, other than maybe venting your own frustration. A huge majority of people here are going with the flow, many of them realizing the pointlessness of complaints in a situation where website owners are deaf and blind to any of the requests and issues we raise. Focus on the things you like to do on Lit rather than complaining, because complaining doesn't lead anywhere.

 

[PastMaster]

Focus on the things you like to do on Lit rather than complaining, because complaining doesn't lead anywhere.

It passes the time while i'm waiting for inspiration to hit for my story

Having said that - thanks to all - its been an interesting discussion.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Sorry to disappoint you by not attacking you

Not disappointed, just preemptively covering all my bases.
'Sides, you'd have to come up with something more colorful than sycophant for me to feel attacked. You should hear the shit I get called at work...

 

[PastMaster]

You should hear the shit I get called at work

Bradypus perhaps?

 

[ElectricBlue]

She does die from her injuries later in the story - so the snuff does still stand - but even aside from that surely on the noncon and torture aspect it fails against the rules.

And I am really sorry but to compare it to mainstream published work - when every time anyone has used that excuse in defence of their work and been told "thems the site rules"

There's another subtlety - when this scene ends, the victim is alive, resisting torture, is still conscious, so this scene is not snuff. It's non-con, sure, but I have no idea how it compares to any other non-con. Because, you know, if you don't like non-con (which I don't), don't read it. I know it's here, but I don't need to go on about it, it's not my moral vendetta.

If she later dies from injuries, is that death scene sexual? I don't know, because I'm certainly not going to go looking for it; but I think these might be the subtleties that get applied. There's the separation of scenes, separating death from sexual content by five-hundred words, to use my analogy.

As for my own frame of reference, I've got a hara-kiri style disembowellment scene in one of my stories, which is as brutal (but not anywhere as long) as this example, and I'm sure many would think it gratuitous, but sexual content is nowhere close. And I've got another story where the protagonist murders the bad guy with a heroin overdose, but again, no sexual content anywhere close. No problems with either scene, no comments about them, either.

Like others, though, I have to wonder why you're going on about this so much. What's in your content that you want to ride the line (which is ultimately what this is all about)? Why is this so personal? Or is this a rage against the site because you've had content rejected?

Write something nice, like unicorns and faeries, problem fucking solved!

 

[TheRedChamber]

There's another subtlety - when this scene ends, the victim is alive, resisting torture, is still conscious, so this scene is not snuff. It's non-con, sure, but I have no idea how it compares to any other non-con. Because, you know, if you don't like non-con (which I don't), don't read it. I know it's here, but I don't need to go on about it, it's not my moral vendetta.

If she later dies from injuries, is that death scene sexual? I don't know, because I'm certainly not going to go looking for it; but I think these might be the subtleties that get applied. There's the separation of scenes, separating death from sexual content by five-hundred words, to use my analogy.

As for my own frame of reference, I've got a hara-kiri style disembowellment scene in one of my stories, which is as brutal (but not anywhere as long) as this example, and I'm sure many would think it gratuitous, but sexual content is nowhere close. And I've got another story where the protagonist murders the bad guy with a heroin overdose, but again, no sexual content anywhere close. No problems with either scene, no comments about them, either.

Like others, though, I have to wonder why you're going on about this so much. What's in your content that you want to ride the line (which is ultimately what this is all about)? Why is this so personal? Or is this a rage against the site because you've had content rejected?

Write something nice, like unicorns and faeries, problem fucking solved!

These could all be good questions in a more borderline case. In this extract, they're distractions.

The simple question to ask is 'Did the victim receive any pleasure from what was done to her?'

(Spoilers - the answer is 'hell no.')

The story clearly breaks rule one of Non-con.

 

[PastMaster]

Why is this so personal?

Its personal because I got Piles of abuse from people on this site for my story HITMAN - when the 'violence' was one person getting shot,(non sexual) and two people getting poisoned. There was a whole thread called "The competition for extreme violence heats up" in which I, and another poster were abused for writing these violent stories.
I got abused by a MOD for my story HITMAN - his comment that I and all my content should be expunged form the site -

There is NO place for this type of filth on Lit at all. NO exceptions, NO excuses. Is it being approved? Or is it just slipping through the filters? If I were Admin and I found a single example of this garbage, I would toss the member and their entire library entirely

The story was then reported - and the Instant it was reported - it was pulled.
I successfully argued that that it was within the site rules and the story was reinstated.

BobbyBrandts story (and yours too by the sound of it) are FAR worse than the violence in my story - but where are all the people accusing you of being a murderer. where is the baying mob coming after you? why is it that when I reported BobbyBrandts story nothing was done when it clearly breaches several rules.

That's why it's so personal

 

[SimonDoom]

This thread isn't about underage. Its about rape, torture, sexual torture and abuse all of which break the rules, but you don't care about those rules. Misogyny rules here, the abuse of women is great for traffic, and the rule is a joke, and not even worth mentioning as you just proved, because you fall right in line with the acceptance of it. You whine incessantly about one rule but breaking the others is okay? Wonder why? I know why because you've never fooled me.

You're arguing with someone who thinks the rules should be enforced, then squeal at the people who want to break them in other threads.

People are judged by the company they keep, what they defend and what they attack. You're defending a blatantly rule breaking story and attacking someone pointing it out.

Good job Simon, now run and check and see how many followers you have and what your scores are, its all that matters to you here. Don't reply because you're going on ignore. I can handle blatant trolls, I can handle assholes and personal attacks, I can deal with the worst people have to offer.

What I don't deal with are self righteous pontificating phonies. I don't deal with the Eddie Haskels of the world. I don't need to see anymore of your smarmy wheedling waffling posts and poorly veiled closet misogyny.

Said by the most hypocritical, whining, self-righteous, pontificating, antagonistic, name-calling woke person in this forum. And cowardly, too, judging by the fact you suggest you'll put me on ignore so as not to have to engage.

I've never ignored or cancelled anybody, and I never will. But do what you want. But if you cancel me you demonstrate that you're the biggest snowflake here.

To be clear:

You're right. I don't care about the rules. I don't care at all. This is a fantasy space and people should be able to fantasize about what they want to fantasize about. It doesn't affect me or concern me or bother me if people have fantasies that are different from mine, or that I find repugnant. I truly do not care. All things being equal, I'd like to see the rules, whatever they are, administered fairly and consistently, but if they aren't, it's small potatoes. Tiny potatoes. It's not something to spend anytime whatsoever being outraged about.

I don't whine. I don't judge people. My attitude is write whatever fantasy stories you want to. The world will be no worse off. But if the site doesn't like your story and rejects it, you have no cause to complain. This is not society at large; it is a private erotic story site. Just follow the rules, mind your business, and have fun, and don't, like Lovecraft, indulge in fantasies of fighting for justice and right, when what you're really doing is showing off the enormous chip on your shoulder that you've been carrying all your life and that nobody else cares about.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Bradypus perhaps?

Good one! I had to look that up (all I could think of on my own was "slow pussy" which made no sense).
Alas, no; I keep trying to convince my bosses that I'm lazy, but they don't believe me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

This is a very depressing thread, on so many levels.

Em

 

[PastMaster]

This is a very depressing thread, on so many levels.

Em

You're better off out of it. Dont let it get you down.

 

[Voboy]

Its personal because I got Piles of abuse from people on this site for my story HITMAN - when the 'violence' was one person getting shot,(non sexual) and two people getting poisoned. There was a whole thread called "The competition for extreme violence heats up" in which I, and another poster were abused for writing these violent stories.
I got abused by a MOD for my story HITMAN - his comment that I and all my content should be expunged form the site -

There is NO place for this type of filth on Lit at all. NO exceptions, NO excuses. Is it being approved? Or is it just slipping through the filters? If I were Admin and I found a single example of this garbage, I would toss the member and their entire library entirely

The story was then reported - and the Instant it was reported - it was pulled.
I successfully argued that that it was within the site rules and the story was reinstated.

BobbyBrandts story (and yours too by the sound of it) are FAR worse than the violence in my story - but where are all the people accusing you of being a murderer. where is the baying mob coming after you? why is it that when I reported BobbyBrandts story nothing was done when it clearly breaches several rules.

That's why it's so personal

Might you have a point? Sure. I've never read Hitman, nor commented on it, nor your other stuff, so I don't really know. And, as I've said to you before, I'm sick of your complaints in these threads.

That does not mean you don't have a valid grievance. I simply don't know. I do hope you find a solution.

What I will say is that you've got to let this go. The AH already has a few annoying denizens who, despite their frequently useful contributions, simply will not move on. It gets old, rapidly. And, as others have reminded you, it's not useful.

Let it go. Be zen. You think you've been wronged, and perhaps you have, but that's in the past. Let it lie and move on to the next story.

 

[SimonDoom]

Its personal because I got Piles of abuse from people on this site for my story HITMAN - when the 'violence' was one person getting shot,(non sexual) and two people getting poisoned. There was a whole thread called "The competition for extreme violence heats up" in which I, and another poster were abused for writing these violent stories.
I got abused by a MOD for my story HITMAN - his comment that I and all my content should be expunged form the site -

There is NO place for this type of filth on Lit at all. NO exceptions, NO excuses. Is it being approved? Or is it just slipping through the filters? If I were Admin and I found a single example of this garbage, I would toss the member and their entire library entirely

The story was then reported - and the Instant it was reported - it was pulled.
I successfully argued that that it was within the site rules and the story was reinstated.

BobbyBrandts story (and yours too by the sound of it) are FAR worse than the violence in my story - but where are all the people accusing you of being a murderer. where is the baying mob coming after you? why is it that when I reported BobbyBrandts story nothing was done when it clearly breaches several rules.

That's why it's so personal

I'm sorry you got abuse. I didn't give you abuse. I can't recall having given anybody abuse for the content of their stories, although I've criticized some stories that I didn't like. My general attitude is one of extreme tolerance for other people's fantasies. I meant it when I said I truly do not care what the site's content rules are, and it doesn't bother me if the site publishes things I don't like.

I haven't read the text of the stories so in the absence of doing that I'm not qualified to talk about them, or why you got the reaction you did, or why or why not a story was rejected. My attitude is that the right approach is to stick around, watch how things go, read the rules, such as they are (admittedly, not very detailed and somewhat opaque) and write your stories so as to avoid problems with the site filter. If you get a rejection, submit a courteous explanation about why it was wrong. I had a story rejected once, did that, and the rejection was rescinded. If navigating the site's rules on certain content is too troublesome, find another forum to publish the stories.

 

[PastMaster]

I'm sick of your complaints in these threads.

Then why join the thread?
If you sick of it steer clear - no worries.

 

[Voboy]

Then why join the thread?
If you sick of it steer clear - no worries.

Alas, you seem to have fixated on the one part of my post you wished to care about. The rest of it was far, far more important.

Don't be bitter. Move on. It's in the past.

 

[PastMaster]

I'm sorry you got abuse. I didn't give you abuse. I can't recall having given anybody abuse for the content of their stories, although I've criticized some stories that I didn't like. My general attitude is one of extreme tolerance for other people's fantasies. I meant it when I said I truly do not care what the site's content rules are, and it doesn't bother me if the site publishes things I don't like.

I haven't read the text of the stories so in the absence of doing that I'm not qualified to talk about them, or why you got the reaction you did, or why or why not a story was rejected. My attitude is that the right approach is to stick around, watch how things go, read the rules, such as they are (admittedly, not very detailed and somewhat opaque) and write your stories so as to avoid problems with the site filter. If you get a rejection, submit a courteous explanation about why it was wrong. I had a story rejected once, did that, and the rejection was rescinded. If navigating the site's rules on certain content is too troublesome, find another forum to publish the stories.

No - you are right you are not one of the ones who gave me abuse.

My point in this thread was not that my story got rejected although I did use a rejection as an example - its that I have had 2 stories reported - and each time they were reported they were instantly pulled. and yet ,,,

i'm not going to reiterate.

My philosophy has now become - if a story gets rejected - I'll send it back with a query - since I am certain in my own mind that the first rejection is done by pattern matching software. If it gets rejected again - i simply delete it from the site - I post on 3 other sites plus my patreon so its not really a problem to me any more.

My problem was not with the rules in this instance it was with the baying mob after blood for my story - they themselves have written worse and there are many worse stories on the site.

I've made my point - i'll not mention it again. Nor will I mention the U18 rule again unless it is to explain to a new author, who asks, how best not to fall foul of it.