Mandatory Military Service in the US?

[The Heretic]

Some will see their duty and do it. Others will find a way to escape it and justify it on "principals."

Spelling Buddy says "Principles" and I would like anybody who feels they can - explain why they think that individuals owe some kind of duty to their country. More importantly, and more to the point, once they have explained that, I would like someone to explain to me why they think they make this a mandatory duty incumbent on everybody.

I know those probably aren't popular questions to ask - but hey, that is why I am a "heretic"; I ask unpopular questions and take unpopular stances.

I did not serve my country and risk my life (multiple times) because I felt I owed it to my country, or because I thought it was somehow my duty - I did it because I wanted to. Nobody has any duty to me, or owes anything to me with regards to protecting me, or killing for me, or getting killed for me, or rescuing me - what I require of anybody and everybody else is that they respect my rights the same way I respect theirs.

If someone wants to protect me, or kill for me, or get killed/maimed/hurt for me - I want them to do it because they want to, not because they somehow felt they had a debt or duty to me - and I certainly don't want them forced to perform this "duty".

 

[SilvaTungDevil]

They're not draggin' my ass into the militia without a catfight.

 

[PaganZepher]

...... and I would like anybody who feels they can - explain why they think that individuals owe some kind of duty to their country.

.....

I did not serve my country and risk my life (multiple times) because I felt I owed it to my country, or because I thought it was somehow my duty - I did it because I wanted to. ...

If you served and really felt no sense of duty, I don't understand it. I think you really must have been "a duck out of water." Duty is the foundation of military service. I will not argue with you about duty. You either feel a sense of duty to your country, your family, yourself, or you don't.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Possible Answer?

Hi Heretic, I think it is the old thing about national boundaries, lifestyle and ability to work at an occupation/profession of your choice when and when you choose . . . Even so, you argument has certain appeal . . .

Hi PaganZephyr, I support the idea of a "Peace Corps" national service between school and university has considerable appeal . . . but how many types of programmes can be devised that are labour intensive AND nationally useful . . . ?

Good luck, STD, life on the road can be fun . . . Oz is a good place to visit, as many US COs found last time . . .

 

[CAROSI]

I've been in the Navy for 25 years and am looking nervously at my retirement in July of next year. I joined because I wanted to, not because I felt I owed anyone or that it was my duty. Actually, I couldn't afford school. I'm just happy we can sit here now and discuss this freely without worrying about expressing how we feel about things. Thats the best "job satisfaction".

 

[Dantetier]

When is everyone going to realize that it's not conscripting people to fight, nor is it a draft. nowhere does it say that the people are actually in the military... it's just training. Afte the training, it's all over. You can CHOOSE to join the military afterwards, but that's it

 

[Don K Dyck]

Don't be niave . . .

When is everyone going to realize that it's not conscripting people to fight, nor is it a draft. nowhere does it say that the people are actually in the military... it's just training. Afte the training, it's all over. You can CHOOSE to join the military afterwards, but that's it

Hi Dantetier . . . I don't believe that anybody could be THAT niave . . .

The U$ is the nation with more expenditure on arms than the rest of the world put together, has the greatest crisis with regards to diminishing oil reserves and so the greatest need to conduct an Imperialist War to gain control of undeveloped oil reserves in the Middle East . . .

Part of military training is the induction ceremony in which inductees pledge fealty to the United States . . . once inducted, you do what you are told . . . the step to military service is very, very short . . . indeed, when is military service NOT military service? According to Dantetier, when it is conducted under this new Bill . . . come on, guys, . . . you can do better than that!

 

[Spinaroonie]

When is everyone going to realize that it's not conscripting people to fight, nor is it a draft. nowhere does it say that the people are actually in the military... it's just training. Afte the training, it's all over. You can CHOOSE to join the military afterwards, but that's it

Wow. "Let's show them the crappiest part of the military and see if they join!"

 

[Lost Cause]

All this could be a moot point......

In the future....

(Reuters) - The United States reminded Iraq and other countries on Tuesday that it was prepared to use nuclear weapons if necessary to respond to an attack from weapons of mass destruction. The warning, which underscored longstanding U.S. policy leaving open the use of nuclear weapons if needed, was contained in a statement of U.S. strategy against nuclear, chemical and biological weapons -- the first update since 1993. The six-page strategy document says deterring attacks with the threat of "overwhelming force" is an essential element in protecting America and its allies from weapons of mass destruction, also known as WMD.

 

[The Heretic]

If you served and really felt no sense of duty, I don't understand it. I think you really must have been "a duck out of water." Duty is the foundation of military service. I will not argue with you about duty. You either feel a sense of duty to your country, your family, yourself, or you don't.

Actually I took my time and my job in the military a lot more seriously than most of the people I served with. However, I am a stickler for using words correctly.

Duty:

1 conduct due to parents and superiors : RESPECT
2 a : obligatory tasks, conduct, service, or functions that arise from one's position (as in life or in a group) b (1) : assigned service or business (2) : active military service (3) : a period of being on duty
3 a : a moral or legal obligation b : the force of moral obligation

The objection I have with using the word "duty" to describe military service is that I do not and never have felt an obligation to someone or something else that I did not first incur. For example; I have a duty to help my family any way I can because I voluntarily took on that responsibility when I started my family. I don't have a duty to Joe Blow on the street because I am not responsible for him.

Saying I have any kind of duty (a moral or legal obligation) that I owe to someone just because I exist does not make logical sense. How did I incur that duty? How much do I owe? A few days, a few months, a few years, my life?

A lot of people talk about duty and honor, but they don't really know what they mean. Some don't care what they mean, they just use the words to make people feel an obligation so the people will do what they want them to do. Saying that I "either feel it or I don't" is just a bunch of ambiguous arm waving and makes no impression on me or any other halfway intelligent adult.

So I will say it again; explain why you (anybody in general) think that individuals owe some kind of duty to their country. More importantly, and more to the point, once you have explained that, explain to me why you think they make this a mandatory duty incumbent on everybody.

If you can't explain this, then why should people feel obligated, much less be compelled, to perform such a "duty and honor"?

 

[HeavyStick]

Bump for LovingTongue

 

[Bent]

Originally posted by Dantetier
*shrugs* I like it. In a country where a great majority of the poeple are overweight, and there are more uneducated people then there should be, AND the fact that I think basic military service is a great thing for anyone, I think it's a great idea.

I can get behind that!

 

[Spinaroonie]

I do not remember this thread.

 

[Vixandra]

Anyone actually read Robert A. Heinlein's "Starship Troopers?" No, the movie DOES NOT count (least not for my point).
One of the basic principals in the book is the difference between a citizen and a civilian.

"The difference," I answered carefully, "lies in the field of civic virtue. A soldier accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politic of which he is a member, defending it, if need be, with his life. The civilian does not."
pg. 40, Juan Rico's answer to the difference between a soldier and a civilian.

I believe that the right to vote, to "fix things" should rest with those willing to serve thier country for a given term of service. Even if that term of service is no more then counting by touch the number of hairs on a catepiller because the person is blind and partly paralized. As long as they're willing to serve for a term of two years, with possible voluntary or involuntary extensions as needed for the greater good, to risk thier lives for the safety and good of the "state", then they should be able to vote.

Yeah, an odd view but, I'm in the AF, I'm serving my country. I can't help but think less of someone who won't do it but will bitch and cry about how America is sooo horrible and awful while they take advantage of its benefits. You don't like- leave. No one's stopping you, plenty of other countries you could live in, you know.
*hops off soap box*
So- in response to the question- I don't agree with an enforced enlistment for anyone. If its an option of that or jail time, that's fair- still a choice. But forcing every young man of age to serve- you can't force civic virtue or morality.

"The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to group that self-interest has to individual."

 

[Thunderbear]

Well, if Heinlein were running society, we'd all be armed, and damn polite... more's the pity that he isn't. I tend to agree with him alot... until he digresses into orgy, anyway.

 

[Lasher]

I do not remember this thread.

Don't worry, it's a fake.

 

[Vixandra]

Well, if Heinlein were running society, we'd all be armed, and damn polite... more's the pity that he isn't. I tend to agree with him alot... until he digresses into orgy, anyway.

LOL- rather accurate that.
I'm a big Heinlein fan (though some of them are a bit hard to follow like the timeline/people line of "To Sail beyond the sunset").
I see no problem with armed, more polite people, LOL.

 

[Karen Kraft]

National Draft

Good point.

They should have a system where everyone (boys and girls alike) is subject to the draft, but you have a lottery to decide which one of the nearly 200 countries in the world you will be obligated to invade.

j/k