Mandatory Military Service in the US?

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Another thing I'd like to see....

When I was in the first time, we had alot of troops that were offered military service in lieu of jail time. My Sergeant had been an inner city thug, got caught stealing a car, and got this option. 24 years later, he was still in, and thanking the judge for giving him this chance and opportunity to make good in his life. I knew alot of standup troops that went in this way, I wonder if it would work for the borderline kids now, as they already sent them to juvenile boot camps. Think about it, good food, regular pay, a cool uniform, chicks/dudes, and you can go out twice a month and shoot the shit out of things! Woohoo! If they fuck up in there, they get Leavenworth......win-win scenario.

Hi LC . . . I agree in principle, but in Oz we would have to extend the role of the Army to iinclude a civilian component like road development in isolated regions or bushfire sevice for events like last week's Sydney fires . . .

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service in the US?

So sorry, I'm not sacrificing any sons for either Israel or Oil.

Too busy spanking them?

 

[HeavyStick]

Your post was so wholly ridiculous as not to bear a serious response. Manditory Military service is antithetical to what America deludes itself that it is about.

And, I'm a combat veteran, skippy.

Spelling buddy just shot himself.

 

[Freya]

Spelling buddy just shot himself.

Christ, that guy shot himself in the foot about 40 times last night.

 

[roxanne69]

Christ, that guy shot himself in the foot about 40 times last night.

Freya, I said into my office NOW!!!!!!!!

 

[HeavyStick]

Christ, that guy shot himself in the foot about 40 times last night.

I had to call him out, he was getting all pissy about "then" and "than".

 

[Don K Dyck]

http://thomas.loc.gov/

and search for bill number H. R. 3598 (direct linking isn't working for me)



What do you think? I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion what I think.

HI Spin . . . I think this was a foregone conclusion some three months ago . . . now that you have tunred up the Bill to bring back conscription for 18 - 22 year old college kids, some of the Republican Party supporters may take notice . . . there again, others, without the real life experience, will glorify war and its consequences . . .

Interestingly, these links, both yours and Heavystick's, have been removed already . . . maybe the Dubyah Shrub Administration is avoiding public criticism by withdrawing notification of the new draft . . . so . . . the good ole U$ goes back to the good ole ways of killing off the kids to provide corporate profits for the corrupt executive class . . . the more things change, the more they stay the same . . .

Already the American people are demonstrating in huge numbers . . . and that is before the first shot has been fired . . . last time the first shots were fired at Kent State University . . . killing students . . . no doubt the politicians backed by the military will disregard the view of the people in favour of the Middle Eastern undeveloped oil reserves . . . God save Americans . . . because nobodyelse can . . .

 

[Don K Dyck]

Oz Nationalism . . .

Hey Drunktard.

Panama
Gulf War
Somalia

I've been to all three. Still alive. The one thing I will say. Aussies are better bar room brawlers the Brit's. Aussies buy you another round at the end of a fight, Brit's will toss your salad.

heheheh . . . and Dubyah Shrub reckons they are better troops, too . . . or so our Prim Monster keeps telling us . . . but then, that was the case for their fathers and grandfathers too, so what else could you expect . . .

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service in the US?

Interestingly, these links, both yours and Heavystick's, have been removed already .

My link was from a search. Let me get it (HR3598) again.

 

[Freya]

I had to call him out, he was getting all pissy about "then" and "than".

He called me, Miles and Roxanne Nazi's last night.

 

[HeavyStick]

Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001 (Introduced in House)

HR 3598 IH

107th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 3598

To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

December 20, 2001

Mr. SMITH of Michigan (for himself and Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services

A BILL

To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE AND TABLE OF CONTENTS.

(a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001'.

(b) TABLE OF CONTENTS- The table of contents for this Act is as follows:

Sec. 1. Short title and table of contents.

Sec. 2. Definitions.

Sec. 3. Basic military training and education.

Sec. 4. Period of basic military training and education.

Sec. 5. Educational services and prorated Montgomery GI Bill benefits.

Sec. 6. Role of Selective Service System.

Sec. 7. Induction of conscripts and acceptance of volunteers.

Sec. 8. Deferments and postponements.

Sec. 9. Exemptions.

Sec. 10. Military training in branch of member's choice; conscientious objection.

Sec. 11. Pay and allowances.

Sec. 12. Discharge following training.

Sec. 13. Relation to authorized end strengths for active forces.

Sec. 14. Conforming amendments.

Sec. 15. Transitional provision.

SEC. 2. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `armed forces' means the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Coast Guard.

(2) The term `basic military training and education' means a program consisting of--

(A) basic training established by the Secretary concerned for members of the armed forces inducted as conscripts or accepted as volunteers pursuant this Act;

(B) educational services described in section 4; and

(C) such specialty training as the Secretary concerned considers appropriate.

(3) The term `between the ages of 18 and 22' refers to men who have attained the 18th anniversary of the day of their birth and who have not attained the 22d anniversary of the day of their birth.

(4) The term `Director' means the Director of the Selective Service System.

(5) The term `local board' means a county local board or intercounty local board established by the President under section 10(b) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 460(b)).

(6) The term `Secretary concerned' means the Secretary of Defense, with respect to the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force, and the Secretary of Transportation, with respect to the Coast Guard.

(7) The term `United States', when used in a geographical sense, means the several States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam.

SEC. 3. BASIC MILITARY TRAINING AND EDUCATION.

(a) OBLIGATION FOR YOUNG MEN- It is the obligation of every male citizen of the United States, and every other male person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of 18 and 22 to receive basic military training and education as a member of the armed forces unless the citizen or person is exempted under the provisions of this Act.

(b) ACCEPTANCE OF YOUNG WOMEN VOLUNTEERS- Female citizens of the United States, and other female persons residing in the United States, who are between the ages of 18 and 22 may volunteer for enlistment in the armed forces to receive basic military training and education under this Act. At the discretion of the Secretary concerned, the Secretary concerned may accept such volunteers to receive such training and education.

SEC. 4. PERIOD OF BASIC MILITARY TRAINING AND EDUCATION.

(a) GENERAL RULE- Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person inducted as a conscript or accepted as a volunteer pursuant to this Act shall receive basic military training and education as a member of one of the armed forces for a period of not less than six months, but not more than one year, as established by the Secretary concerned.

(b) EXTENDED TRAINING AND EDUCATIONAL SERVICES FOR HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUTS- A person inducted as a conscript or accepted as a volunteer pursuant to this Act who has not obtained a high school diploma or its equivalent, shall receive basic military training and education as a member of one of the armed forces for an additional period of up to six months after the completion of the period established for members of that armed force under subsection (a). The Secretary concerned shall assist such members in earning the equivalent of a high school

diploma while receiving their basic military training and education.

(c) OTHER GROUNDS FOR EXTENSION- At the discretion of the Secretary concerned, the period of basic military training and education for a member of the armed forces under this Act may be extended--

(1) with the consent of the member, for the purpose of furnishing hospitalization, medical, or surgical care for injury or illness incurred in line of duty; or

(2) for the purpose of requiring the member to compensate for any time lost to training for any cause.

(d) TRANSFER TO NATIONAL AND COMMUNITY SERVICE PROGRAMS- The Secretary concerned may enter into a cooperative agreement with another Federal agency, a State or political subdivision of a State (including a State Commission on National and Community Service maintained by a State pursuant to section 178 of the National and Community Service Act of 1990 (42 U.S.C. 12638)), and other entities carrying out a national service program described in section 122 of such Act (42 U.S.C. 12572) to provide for a transfer of a person receiving basic military training and education, upon completion of the initial military training component of the training, to complete the remainder of the person's required service in a national service program.

(e) EARLY TERMINATION- The period of basic military training and education for a person shall be terminated before the end of such period under the following circumstances:

(1) The voluntary enlistment and service of the person in any of the regular components of the armed forces for a period of at least two years. The period of basic military training and education actually served by the person shall be counted toward the term of enlistment.

(2) The admission and service of the person as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, the United States Merchant Marine Academy.

(3) The enrollment and service of the person in an officer candidate program, if the person has signed an agreement to accept a Reserve commission in the appropriate service if such a commission is offered upon completion of the program.

(4) Such other grounds as the Secretary concerned may establish.

(f) TREATMENT OF BASIC MILITARY TRAINING AND EDUCATION- For purposes of computing the years of service of a member of the armed forces, any period during which the member received basic military training and education shall be counted.

SEC. 5. EDUCATIONAL SERVICES AND PRORATED MONTGOMERY GI BILL BENEFITS.

(a) INSTRUCTION AS PART OF MILITARY TRAINING- As part of the basic military training and education provided under this Act, the Secretary concerned shall include instruction in physical fitness, international relations, military tactics, homeland security, United States and world history, vocational training, and such other topics as the Secretary considers appropriate.

(b) MONTGOMERY GI BILL BENEFITS- Upon the successful completion by a person of basic military training and education as a member of one of the armed forces, the person shall be entitled to the program of educational assistance provided under chapter 30 of title 38, United States Code, on a prorated basis corresponding to the period of basic military training and education completed by the person.

SEC. 6. ROLE OF SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM.

(a) IN GENERAL- The Selective Service System shall administer all matters in connection with the induction of persons subject to the obligation to receive basic military training and education under section 3(a) and the registration, examination, classification, allocation, delivery, and maintenance of records, of such persons.

(b) LOCAL BOARDS- Under rules and regulations promulgated by the Director, the local boards shall have the power within their respective jurisdictions to hear and determine, subject to the right of appeal to appeal boards authorized by the Military Selective Service Act, all questions or claims with respect to determinations of dependency, inclusion for, or exemption or deferment from induction or allocation for basic military training and education under this Act.

SEC. 7. INDUCTION OF CONSCRIPTS AND ACCEPTANCE OF VOLUNTEERS.

(a) IN GENERAL- Every person subject to induction for basic military training and education under section 3(a), except those whose training is deferred or postponed in accordance with this Act, shall be called, inducted, and delivered by his local board to the armed forces for such training at the time and place specified by the Director.

(b) AGE LIMITS- No person may be inducted for basic military training and education under section 3(a), or accepted as a volunteer under section 3(b), who is not between the ages of 18 and 22.

(c) SCHEDULES FOR INDUCTION AND ACCEPTANCE OF VOLUNTEERS- Each Secretary concerned, in consultation with the Director, shall determine schedules to be used for the induction of persons and the acceptance of volunteers under this Act and the number of persons to be inducted or accepted pursuant to such schedules. The Secretary concerned may phase in, over not longer than a 10-year period, the induction of persons subject to the obligation to receive basic military training and education.

(d) VOLUNTARY INDUCTION- A person subject to basic military training and education under section 3(a) may volunteer for induction at a time other than the time at which the person is otherwise called for induction.

(e) EXAMINATION; CLASSIFICATION- Every person subject to basic military training and education under section 3(a) and every person volunteering for basic military training and education under section 3(b) shall, before induction or acceptance, be physically and mentally examined, and the appropriate local board shall classify the person.

SEC. 8. DEFERMENTS AND POSTPONEMENTS.

(a) HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS- A person who is pursuing a standard course of study, on a full-time basis in a high school or a similar institution of learning shall be

entitled to have his induction under section 3(a) postponed until he obtains a high school diploma, ceases to pursue satisfactorily such course of study, or attains the age of 20, whichever occurs first.

(b) HARDSHIP AND DISABILITY- Deferments from basic military training and education may be made for extreme hardship or physical or mental disability.

(c) TRAINING CAPACITY- The Secretary concerned may postpone or suspend the induction of persons or the acceptance of volunteers under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained.

(d) TERMINATION- No deferment or postponement of induction for basic military training and education under this Act shall continue after the cause of such deferment or postponement ceases to exist.

SEC. 9. EXEMPTIONS.

(a) ACCEPTED BY ARMED FORCES- No person may be inducted or accepted as a volunteer for basic military training and education unless the person is acceptable to the Secretary concerned for training. The same health and physical qualifications applicable under section 505 of title 10, United States Code, to persons seeking original enlistment in a regular component of the armed forces shall apply to persons to be inducted or accepted under this Act.

(b) OTHER MILITARY SERVICE- No person shall be liable for induction under section 3(a) who--

(1) is serving, or has served honorably for at least six months, in any of the armed forces on active duty; or

(2) is or becomes a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, the United States Merchant Marine Academy, a midshipman of a Navy accredited State maritime academy, a member of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or the naval aviation college program, so long as he satisfactorily continues in and completes two years training therein.

SEC. 10. MILITARY TRAINING IN BRANCH OF MEMBER'S CHOICE; CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.

(a) SELECTION BY MEMBER- Subject to such limitations and standards of qualification and selection as may be established by the Secretary concerned to ensure a proper balance of trained manpower between the ground, air, and naval arms, each person inducted or accepted as a volunteer under this Act shall be entitled to request and receive training in the service of the person's choice.

(b) CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS- (1) Any person who claims, because of religious training and belief (as defined in section 6(j) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 456(j))), exemption from combatant training included as part of the program of basic military training and education and whose claim is sustained by the local board shall, when inducted, participate in basic military training and education that does not include any combatant training component. The person may be transferred to a national service program, as provided in section 4(d).

(2) A person claiming exemption from combatant training under this subsection shall, if such claim is not sustained by the local board, be entitled to an appeal to the appropriate appeal board established under the Military Selective Service Act. Each person whose claim for exemption from combatant training because of religious training and belief is sustained shall be listed by the local board on a register of conscientious objectors.

SEC. 11. PAY AND ALLOWANCES.

A person inducted or accepted as a volunteer under this Act and receiving basic military training and education shall be considered to be on active duty for purposes of pay and allowances under title 37, United States Code, except that the monthly basic pay of the person may not exceed 35 percent of the basic pay of an enlisted member in a regular component in the pay grade E-1 with less than four months of service.

SEC. 12. DISCHARGE FOLLOWING TRAINING.

Upon completion or termination of the obligation to receive basic military training and education, a person shall be discharged from the armed forces and shall not be subject to any further training or service under this Act. Nothing in this section shall limit or prohibit the call to active service in the armed forces of any person who is a member of a regular or reserve component of the armed forces.

SEC. 13. RELATION TO AUTHORIZED END STRENGTHS FOR ACTIVE FORCES.

The authorized end strengths for active duty personnel of the armed forces do not include persons inducted or accepted into the armed forces to receive basic military training and education.

SEC. 14. CONFORMING AMENDMENTS.

(a) TITLE 10- (1) Section 505(c) of title 10, United States Code, is amended--

(A) by inserting `(1)' after `(c)'; and

(B) by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to a person inducted or accepted into the armed forces to receive basic military training and education pursuant to the Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001.'.

(2) Section 691 of title 10, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

`(g) The numbers specified in subsection (b) do not include persons inducted or accepted into the armed forces to receive basic military training and education pursuant to the Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001.'.

(b) MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT- (1) Section 4 of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 454) is amended by inserting after subsection (g) the following new subsection:

`(h) RELATION TO OTHER INDUCTION AUTHORITY- This section does not apply with respect to the induction of persons into the Armed Forces to receive basic military training and education pursuant to the Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001.'.

(2) Section 17(c) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 467(c)) is amended by striking `now or hereafter' and all that follows through the period at the end and inserting `inducted pursuant to the Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001.'.

SEC. 15. TRANSITIONAL PROVISION.

A person who has obtained a high school diploma or its equivalent before January 1, 2003, shall not be subject to the obligation under section 3(a) to receive basic military training and education under this Act.

 

[HeavyStick]

He called me, Miles and Roxanne Nazi's last night.

Wow, he should compare notes with ppman. I thought miles was (in the view of ppman) the coveted Jew.

 

[busybody..]

What I dont understand is

Why are men OBLIGATED to be inducted??????

And

Why are WOMEN asked to volunter???????

Isnt that SEXIST?

Shouldnt the NOW crowd fight for equality?

This from someone who has TWINS......A son AND a daughter....both 20

 

[HeavyStick]

Donkey,

This link http://thomas.loc.gov won't change. In the word/phrase search portion you can enter "3598" and get the complete bill.

BTW please read it redwave didn't.

It's not "forced",
there is a way out of service. btw this was a way alot of people got out of military service. Clinton had it removed from the military contracts. (That would have forced people against thier belief to join)

SEC. 10. MILITARY TRAINING IN BRANCH OF MEMBER'S CHOICE; CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.

(a) SELECTION BY MEMBER- Subject to such limitations and standards of qualification and selection as may be established by the Secretary concerned to ensure a proper balance of trained manpower between the ground, air, and naval arms, each person inducted or accepted as a volunteer under this Act shall be entitled to request and receive training in the service of the person's choice.

(b) CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS- (1) Any person who claims, because of religious training and belief (as defined in section 6(j) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 456(j))), exemption from combatant training included as part of the program of basic military training and education and whose claim is sustained by the local board shall, when inducted, participate in basic military training and education that does not include any combatant training component. The person may be transferred to a national service program, as provided in section 4(d).

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: What I dont understand is

Why are men OBLIGATED to be inducted??????

And

Why are WOMEN asked to volunter???????

Isnt that SEXIST?

Shouldnt the NOW crowd fight for equality?

This from someone who has TWINS......A son AND a daughter....both 20

Shut up and read the bill.

 

[busybody..]

(a) OBLIGATION FOR YOUNG MEN- It is the obligation of every male citizen of the United States, and every other male person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of 18 and 22 to receive basic military training and education as a member of the armed forces unless the citizen or person is exempted under the provisions of this Act.

(b) ACCEPTANCE OF YOUNG WOMEN VOLUNTEERS- Female citizens of the United States, and other female persons residing in the United States, who are between the ages of 18 and 22 may volunteer for enlistment in the armed forces to receive basic military training and education under this Act. At the discretion of the Secretary concerned, the Secretary concerned may accept such volunteers to receive such training and education.

 

[HeavyStick]

Read the whole bill, there are other options.

Read section 10.

Read section 5.b. They get GI Bill benefits.

Read section 7.b. only those between 18-22 are subject to the bill.

Read section 9. EXCEPTIONS

 

[ma_guy]

First of all the bill was stupid.

Secondly, since once again Donkey Dick can't be bothered to read and comes up with stupid statements like "I think this was a foregone conclusion some three months ago"... Look at the date on the bill people! December 20, 2001!

This bill is D-E-A-D dead. Long gone. Buh bye! It got the dreaded "Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel" status 11 months ago.. It hasn't been seen since. It's been sent to legislative purgatory. Nuh-uh, ain't gonna happen.

You may now untwist your panties. Thank you!

 

[HeavyStick]

You may now untwist your panties. Thank you!

TY, reading the bill would have also shown it wasn't a blanketed policy of men from 17-35.

 

[REDWAVE]

Dormant, not dead

True, it hasn't passed yet. And maybe it never will. But it, or a renewed version of it, might get passed eventually.

It depends on how long the war with Iraq drags on, whether it spreads to other countries, how many American casualties there are, etc.

 

[HeavyStick]

H.R.3598
Sponsor: Rep Smith, Nick(introduced 12/20/2001)
Latest Major Action: 1/28/2002 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.
Title: To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03598:

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Dormant, not dead

True, it hasn't passed yet. And maybe it never will. But it, or a renewed version of it, might get passed eventually.

It depends on how long the war with Iraq drags on, whether it spreads to other countries, how many American casualties there are, etc.

I agree, Redwave.

Thank you for posting the Bill, heavystick . . . these conditions are similar to those draft laws at the beginning of the Vietnam War . . . and as the casualties mounted so it became more difficult to avoid military service . . .

Hi maguy, I note the date . . . well before I started posting on Lit . . . but this post is new information for me and confirms my previous opinion that the US-Iraq War for Undeveloped Oil Reserves will be expanded, domino style, into Iran then Saudi Arabia . . . and then anywhere that a U$ multinational wants to grab somebodyelse's natural resources for free . . .

Remember the English saying, "What Parliament gives, Parliament may take away." Oz, under the Great Coward Pig-Iron Bob Menzies invited itself to the Vietnam War . . . the conscription period here was two years with 12 months being shot at by the allies in Vietnam if you chose to take the bundle of goodies offered for overseas service . . . but significantly reduced by later governments . . . more Oz soldiers were lost to "friendly fire" than to the VC . . .

As the Shah of Iran said, "it is difficult to be an ally of the United States."

 

[The Heretic]

I oppose mandatory military service, whether during peacetime or war for the following reasons:

First and foremost - it goes against my principles; no person should be forced to do anything against their will, especially when it comes to killing or being killed. Whether they are COs (Conscientious Objectors) and serve in some other capacity or not, being forced to give any kind of service to one's country is not what Liberty and the USA is all about. Such force says that the group is more important than the individual - and that is just plain untrue.

Second, it has been proven time and again that a voluntary force is much better than a conscripted force. While we have had selective service registration for some time, we have also had a purely voluntary military for a few decades, and the military has much improved. I served at about the same time as LC (he served longer than I did), and despite his stated opinion, I think he (and anybody else who has served) will agree that it is much better to serve with someone who wants to be in the military, rather than someone who doesn't.

Oh and Cuckolded_BlK_Male, if you are going to point out spelling/grammar mistakes in someone's post, make sure there are none in your own (i.e., it is "mandatory", not "Manditory").

 

[PaganZepher]

Military service or some alternative humanitarian service for the same length of time (and for the same pay) should be mandatory for both male and female citizens. That is my opinion.

I've read all the posts about; I've been here and I've done this or that posts. None of which lend any special credence to the positions advocated. But hearing from those that did serve and have also been on the "outside" is good.

I think service to your country is a honor and a duty. But it will always be as it has in the past. Some will see their duty and do it. Others will find a way to escape it and justify it on "principles."


Edited for spelling.

 

[Spinaroonie]

First and foremost - it goes against my principles; no person should be forced to do anything against their will, especially when it comes to killing or being killed. Whether they are COs (Conscientious Objectors) and serve in some other capacity or not, being forced to give any kind of service to one's country is not what Liberty and the USA is all about. Such force says that the group is more important than the individual - and that is just plain untrue.

Bam. You nailed it.