LW is not your friend!

[NotWise]

Was mom still married?

Nope. He died at the beginning of the story.

Edit: After the dust settled from her husband's death, her best friend got Mom out of the house and they picked up a couple guys who were about her son's age.

The best friend convinced her that she should be honest with her son about what happened. She told him about it, but at that point in the story there was no sexual relationship between Mom and Son, so placing "cuck" on the experience was completely out of place.

Even at the end of the story, there was no kind of monogamous relationship. The guy was leaving for three months, and the Mom and best friend were planning another night out.

There's nothing like cuckolding in the story. It seemed to me like "cuck" was the only word the reader knew.

 

[meddlesome]

Hole in your argument is they're not a minority. If they were this category wouldn't have endless threads dedicated to the growing toxicity of the readers. Obviously there are people that vote high, and the trolls bring it down, but....

If you look at the average score on this site its a soft voting site, LW is well below the average and that's not all from a minority, you can only vote anon once per ISP and I'm sure some will down vote from a couple of devices, but they're not doing it in clusters.

You defend it because you've posted there fairly recently. BTB inc...great example there. Also because I think that despite your name calling of the incel faction-usually laced with political slurs because you seem to think no one on your side of the political fence can be a woman hater or phobe, you have somewhat of a kinship with them.

Your long winded overly 'thoughtful' posts on many topics are the work of a bad liar, and I have seen you go out of your way to mansplain many things to women here in threads.

So I think your defense of the fanbase over there just further drives that home.

Circle back to years of threads about the cesspool of knuckle dragging shitstains over there aren't caused by a minority.

Tell yourself whatever you need to so you can get through the night as the saying goes.

IMHO, the trolls are a minority, but a loud and consequential (if you care about voting) one.

 

[gordo12]

The way LW devolved over the years is too bad, long time ago there were stories written for fun and a positive spin on the fetish and there were great readers who enjoyed them.

Loving Wives has evolved. 3-4 years ago, there was a period where damn near every story was gay male or bi. It changes, and the current BTB and others will dissipate as other ideas gain interest.

Hole in your argument is they're not a minority. If they were this category wouldn't have endless threads dedicated to the growing toxicity of the readers.

But all too frequently, the people starting those threads (authors) have little experience there, and many of the responders have NO experience. Just like this thread.

The experienced authors are ignored in the current "that place is fucked up" drama.

There are bad people in there. There are ugly people in there. They're idiots, and I'm not defending them.

But the majority are good readers, make decent comments and scores. Don't be fooled by the vocal minority.

 

[SimonDoom]

But the majority are good readers, make decent comments and scores. Don't be fooled by the vocal minority.

I think you're right. It's a highly vocal, and annoying, minority, but it's a minority.

Consider, as an example, Tomlitilia's story All You Have To Do Is Ask. It's tagged as a "hot wife/slut wife/consenting husband" story. The story has a score of 3.57, which means that it has been bombed by those who hate that type of story. But it has 55 comments, which is a lot for a story with 42,000 views, and it has 77 favorites, and many of the comments are effusively positive, although some hated it.

It doesn't take that many determined downvoters to torpedo a story's score. If you have 100 votes and 80 5s and 20 1s the average is 4.2, far below the desired red H. And part of the problem is that the "anti-cuck" crowd, while a minority, is probably the most vocal and motivated readership group in all of Literotica. So they have a disproportionate weight in scoring and commenting.

 

[yowser]

Loving Wives has evolved. 3-4 years ago, there was a period where damn near every story was gay male or bi. It changes,

I have no memory of this. I was about to say that my sense is these themes are extremely rare in LW, but then did a quick 'bisexual' search and came back with a result set of 16(!) pages.

Few of them were received very well but that's hardly surprising. Blimey.

 

[gordo12]

I have no memory of this. I was about to say that my sense is these themes are extremely rare in LW, but then did a quick 'bisexual' search and came back with a result set of 16(!) pages.

Few of them were received very well but that's hardly surprising. Blimey.

Tagging and keywords were a real problem. You'd be three-quarters of the way through a story to get hit with a gay male scene. Absolutely no warning. And the tags were at the end of the story in those days.

I think you're right. It's a highly vocal, and annoying, minority, but it's a minority.

Consider, as an example, Tomlitilia's story All You Have To Do Is Ask. It's tagged as a "hot wife/slut wife/consenting husband" story. The story has a score of 3.57, which means that it has been bombed by those who hate that type of story. But it has 55 comments, which is a lot for a story with 42,000 views, and it has 77 favorites, and many of the comments are effusively positive, although some hated it.

It doesn't take that many determined downvoters to torpedo a story's score. If you have 100 votes and 80 5s and 20 1s the average is 4.2, far below the desired red H. And part of the problem is that the "anti-cuck" crowd, while a minority, is probably the most vocal and motivated readership group in all of Literotica. So they have a disproportionate weight in scoring and commenting.

A big part of the problem has been the authors, and yes, I'm guilty of it too. We've allowed commenters to run free. Let them post anything they want without deleting them. We talk about laughing at their comments here but really we're just encouraging the behaviour.

I think a concerted effort by the authors to do two things would help.

First, publish the definition of the LW category right at the front of your story. You'd be surprised how many readers comment there's no loving wife in the story. They don't understand the category.

Second, would be the instant elimination of any ugly comments. Nothing survives. Take away their platform and sooner or later they'll get bored and go do something else.

But it would require getting all the authors to cooperate. Maybe herding cats would be easier.

 

[Harddaysknight]

Doom seems to have a feel for LW. I have posted there for over 17 years. It has evolved, but so have writers and their expectations. If scores are important to you, try romance or whatever. I don't read most categories, so I don't know where the kindest readers are. LW is a place for writers who have a story to tell, not for writers who want endless praise and adulation. I have over 31,000,000 views but that is over a period of 17 years. Not amazing in any way, but if I had posted in many of the other categories, I would have far fewer. Writers need readers and they gather in LW. Consider what you want, as well as what you expect from posting a story. Personally, I want readers, (views) votes and comments. I don't delete comments. Scores in Lit are no longer an indication of anything concrete. The system is manipulated and thus rendered meaningless. Whiners call for sweeps so low votes, often deserved, are swept away. People want participation awards these days, not the truth. If you can't handle the truth post someplace else or take up knitting. There are two subgroups in LW, cucks and BtB's. Don't cater to them. Write your story and tell the one in your head and heart. The only person you need to please is you. The highest scoring story EVER in Literotica was posted in LW this year. I am not sure if there was a wife in it.

 

[Harddaysknight]

A no whine zone

Doom seems to have a feel for LW. I have posted there for over 17 years. It has evolved, but so have writers and their expectations. If scores are important to you, try romance or whatever. I don't read most categories, so I don't know where the kindest readers are. LW is a place for writers who have a story to tell, not for writers who want endless praise and adulation. I have over 31,000,000 views but that is over a period of 17 years. Not amazing in any way, but if I had posted in many of the other categories, I would have far fewer. Writers need readers and they gather in LW. Consider what you want, as well as what you expect from posting a story. Personally, I want readers, (views) votes and comments. I don't delete comments. Scores in Lit are no longer an indication of anything concrete. The system is manipulated and thus rendered meaningless. Whiners call for sweeps so low votes, often deserved, are swept away. People want participation awards these days, not the truth. If you can't handle the truth post someplace else or take up knitting. There are two subgroups in LW, cucks and BtB's. Don't cater to them. Write your story. Tell the one in your head and heart. The only person you need to please is you. The highest scoring story EVER in all categories in Literotica was posted in LW this year. I am not even sure that there was a wife in it.

 

[AngstIgnored]

I have noticed one prevailing trend in the forums that I really didn't expect until I started reading a lot of threads recently. There are certainly a fair number of authors that quite obviously have next to zero respect for those that vote and comment on their stories.

Well, to be more accurate, it's fair to say the only 'good' readers in their opinion seem to be those those that give a story a very high score, or an overjoyed, 100% positive comment. I'm no psychologist, but it appears that many post stories in the hopes of winning some sort of numbers game with little other motivation. They track trends, follower counts, comment rates per story, per category, on and on, turning freely published erotica into a scientific research study.

Then there are a number of 'home team' insults and abbreviations for anyone that doesn't have the same kinks they do, or who doesn't vote their stories high enough. They're all sort of lumped into the same bucket of losers, or people of the wrong political leanings (no matter if they've expressed any political views or not), or morons that have no life, have spouses that must hate them, etc., etc.

Fairly high profile and active authors routinely dump insult after insult on the people reading and scoring/commenting on their stories. Of course, it's still free speech and I don't fault them for their opinions. Yet, I can't help but wonder why they've turned this more into a sporting event than an artistic effort and love the fanboys and hate those that root for a different team.

If you don't like the comments, delete them as so many have recommended. I don't see much point in stewing over the ones you don't like. There is no book, song, or movie, that everyone in the world loves equally. Opinions vary, wildly at times, and rarely more than they do when it comes to sexual desires of fantasies, so having a wide range of opinions on a story posted here seems something that you should logically expect.

Of course, there is one other insult I've left myself open for here, in that I have a number of stories in final editing stages, but haven't posted any yet, which, at least in the minds of many here, means none of my opinions have any validity at all.

Oh well, I'll just have to deal with that for the time being.

 

[lovecraft68]

Doom seems to have a feel for LW. I have posted there for over 17 years. It has evolved, but so have writers and their expectations. If scores are important to you, try romance or whatever. I don't read most categories, so I don't know where the kindest readers are. LW is a place for writers who have a story to tell, not for writers who want endless praise and adulation. I have over 31,000,000 views but that is over a period of 17 years. Not amazing in any way, but if I had posted in many of the other categories, I would have far fewer. Writers need readers and they gather in LW. Consider what you want, as well as what you expect from posting a story. Personally, I want readers, (views) votes and comments. I don't delete comments. Scores in Lit are no longer an indication of anything concrete. The system is manipulated and thus rendered meaningless. Whiners call for sweeps so low votes, often deserved, are swept away. People want participation awards these days, not the truth. If you can't handle the truth post someplace else or take up knitting. There are two subgroups in LW, cucks and BtB's. Don't cater to them. Write your story. Tell the one in your head and heart. The only person you need to please is you. The highest scoring story EVER in all categories in Literotica was posted in LW this year. I am not even sure that there was a wife in it.

The issue isn't people whining about low scores. Low scores have been a give there for at least the last 7+ years, but its more about the unhealthy level of hate from the readers, and not hate like your story sucks hate, hate like hate speech, threats and every type of ist and phobe possible with threats of violence aimed at fictional characters and the author.

The readership makes your point about not appealing to the cuck and BTB factions moot because it doesn't matter what you write there at this point, they say the same thing...there could not be an actual cuck in the story and they'll still call the character a cuck-as Notwise pointed out, they have it on the brain

If you write BTB they cheer on whatever disgusting things the writer did to the wif and add their own sadistic suggestions. If you don't write BTB they make BTB comments.

BTB authors are no better than their readership, actually they are the readership, but unlike the majority of them, they have a level of literacy that allows them to write a story, they're like gods to the woman haters over there.

I never tell people what to write in a strict sense, but its at the level where people are encouraging the kind of hate that when discussed on the news or in political conversations you would call it ignorant hateful, shouldn't be allowed...then run here and egg it on.

The trolls of now, aren't the trolls of 2012, they're out of their minds with hate.

The only people I feel over there who want to tell a real story are the ones who have begun posting in other categories or coming here to ask where else it could go, to avoid all the spew.

At this point the authors are as bad as the readers, maybe worse for giving them more material to screech over.

That's my unpopular-but more accurate than people vested in that category will want to admit- opinion and no one has to agree with it, or like it.

In closing I'll repeat something I've mentioned before. Cuck and Hotwife material sells well in the market, like seriously well and with no negative hate spewing reviews

Why? Bluntly put its a better class of readership who are willing to spend money rather than get a free hate hard on a site like this, and two, they're the people with the actual kink, what you have here are pure woman haters....on both the writing and reading side of it.

People here always referred to asstr as a cesspool and with good cause. LW has become that cesspool, except those who dwell here will deny that.

 

[EVSardis]

First LW Published - Oof

From reading the comments in the AH forum, I anticipated that there would be negative feedback. Oh boy, was there! Lots of anonymous feedback taking turns ripping me, my story and the characters. Definitely having a thick skin and using the delete comment button are helpful. But for those of you who suggested to focus on the positive feedback, you are absolutely correct. The encouragement definitely has more impact than the hate, so I endeavour to persevere and write another day.

The AH is an incredible support network. If I hadn’t spent the time here and learned what to expect before I published, I might have become discouraged and given up.

The members who take the time to share their experiences, offer advice and encouragement really do deserve kudos.

 

[yowser]

I have noticed one prevailing trend in the forums that I really didn't expect until I started reading a lot of threads recently. There are certainly a fair number of authors that quite obviously have next to zero respect for those that vote and comment on their stories.

Well, to be more accurate, it's fair to say the only 'good' readers in their opinion seem to be those those that give a story a very high score, or an overjoyed, 100% positive comment....

Fairly high profile and active authors routinely dump insult after insult on the people reading and scoring/commenting on their stories. Of course, it's still free speech and I don't fault them for their opinions. Yet, I can't help but wonder why they've turned this more into a sporting event than an artistic effort and love the fanboys and hate those that root for a different team.

I can appreciate how you got this impression, but I don't think your analysis is representative of most authors here.

The writer/reader relationship is always a fraught affair. Most writers, here and in the commercial realm, whether they admit it or not, are apt to be thin-skinned. The AH is a place to vent, share ideas, express opinions, discuss craft, so you are going to get a range of talk.

I think for most of us, the most obnoxious parts of the reader-verse are negative, often vicious, comments on work that we have done when it is quite apparent the reader really didn't even read the piece.

Most of us deal with this fine, and carry on with the writing that excites and moves us. But unearned abuse gets tiresome, and it is a natural reaction sometimes to have the idea: hey, you don't like my stories? why don't you give it a try?

It is no fun to be trashed upon when writing is often a lot of work, and we're putting it out here for free after all. Just give us a smile and a thank-you every once in awhile. We don't mind negative commentary if the reader can give details, explain why they didn't like the tale, show some intelligence. But most negative commentary here doesn't have those attributes.

 

[Spencerfiction]

Posting in LW

I have posted in LW a few times and have no problems with the amount of roasting I get. Not being one of the more popular authors in that category I have to live with whatever gobshite I get. I have never deleted any comments, even the occasional death threat, because I feel the comments really add to the entertainment value of a story.

I hate some of the other categories I’ve posted in where I feel I’ve put in a decent effort and received few or no comments: 65 of my 135 stories have less than 5 comments and 15 have no comments at all. I have 5 stories with scores 4.62-4.77 with no comments, which just confuses the hell out of me.

I freely admit that of the stories I’ve submitted have been part of my learning curve in writing (everyone has to start somewhere) and a few have been experiments in writing (one was a series of dialogue exchanges, basically a series of 48 monologues, in response to another writer declaring that you can’t tell stories with just dialogue or in monologues), so negatives are to be expected, but some of those negatives border on hate.

I have never considered deleting those early stories (the only story I have deleted was one I rewrote and enlarged by 50% to better fit with a sequel), an edit that kept getting rejected, so I deleted the original because it was no longer relevant.)

I have had a great deal more positive and negative responses from LW posts than any other category, for example my best score in any category (Romance) got 31 favs and 19 comments from 277 votes and 14k reads, while one of my lowest-scoring LW stories had 19 favs and 152 comments from over 1700 votes and 80k reads.

LW is my first go-to place for reading stories but it is so much more of a cess-pit than when I first joined Lit 7 years ago. Now I might only read one or two of each daily output and often abandon every other one because the writing is so poor. I know everything in the distant past always seems rosier than reality, but I do seem to remember enjoying all bar the one or two exceptions in the past.

The best writers I enjoy most post their work in LW, so the category still has a significant influence on my reading choices, but recently I have to gnaw on a whole lot of gristle to find new prime steak to enjoy.

 

[AngstIgnored]

In my opinion, LW stories have perhaps the most variance in the stories published there of all categories. Everything from full on "martian slut ray" whoring, cheating husbands, swapping, random three ways, unintended (or intentional) impregnation from a hookup or long time secret lover, divorces after "we need to talk", on and on, all the way to BTB so over the top that the zip code in question has its population drop by a significant percentage.

LW is essentially a dozen categories or more all rolled up into one "at least two of the people involved are married" package. It's really no wonder that there are a ton of wildly differing opinions about which of those stories are great, and which of them 'suck' according to the readers.

 

[lovecraft68]

In my opinion, LW stories have perhaps the most variance in the stories published there of all categories. Everything from full on "martian slut ray" whoring, cheating husbands, swapping, random three ways, unintended (or intentional) impregnation from a hookup or long time secret lover, divorces after "we need to talk", on and on, all the way to BTB so over the top that the zip code in question has its population drop by a significant percentage.

LW is essentially a dozen categories or more all rolled up into one "at least two of the people involved are married" package. It's really no wonder that there are a ton of wildly differing opinions about which of those stories are great, and which of them 'suck' according to the readers.

Most of the discussions about LW isn't about the stories its about the reader reaction which has gone from basic trolling and a "rough crowd" to beyond vicious hateful and frothing.

I can't imagine being a reader over there looking for a good story and having to navigate the minefield of baiting stories and the collections of "ists" that make up the majority of the commenters over there. Its why more people are dropping LW stories into other categories these days.

Maybe Laurel should go "I'm going to build a wall" and do it around LW. I'd lead the gofundme to pay for it.

 

[LucilleCF]

I'm grateful for the LW section.

When I posted my first story in the LW section a few years ago the mob came for me. Writing a story about a theocratic society where lesbian church leaders routinely stole men's wives seemed to kick the proverbial hornet's nest. It remains my lowest-rated story.

However, after wading through the filth I found a lot of good feedback. I even had a few people send paragraphs of praise and constructive criticism directly to my inbox. I don't regret posting there and I plan to continue posting there in the future.

Really, the only thing you need to survive in the LW section is thick skin. If you don't have it when you go in, you'll have it once you come out.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some husbands to cuck. :-D

 

[RejectReality]

Well, I didn't purposely kick the hornets nest with mine. One was a bait and switch role-play where no actual cheating occurred, and in the other, they were both making terrible mistakes and ended up with the short end of the stick. She got burned by someone she burned out of vengeance, and he basically burned himself by hooking up with someone who is no good for him, with a pregnancy thrown in for additional future pain.

So I didn't get beaten up too badly. The fake-out one is actually scoring decently, and the other ( despite being an early story with some questionable technique ) is still in the 4.3s.

They both went up in score a fair amount about 10 years back when some serial commenter named DWornock or something like that hit them both. One of the few instances where the tribal mentality worked in my favor. I suddenly got a bunch of comments and 5s from people countering his every move in the category.

Despite a reasonably decent response, I'm still unlikely to post anything there again. I've written a couple, but they're only on other sites, where the tribal belief that only their kind of stories should be in the category doesn't really exist. I've watched too many people's catalogs get decimated because that "minority" doesn't stop with trashing the one story they hate. It's scorched earth on the author for daring to defile their category with filth.

I've seen proponents of the category say that's just a myth, but that's hogwash. When scores start plummeting immediately after a LW story drops and you see the typical "Another whore 1*" comments, there's not much ambiguity about where it's coming from.

So you don't just need a thick skin, you need to be prepared for the collateral damage as well. Minority or not, it's a large category, and even a fraction of them can do a lot of damage.

 

[meddlesome]

I have noticed one prevailing trend in the forums that I really didn't expect until I started reading a lot of threads recently. There are certainly a fair number of authors that quite obviously have next to zero respect for those that vote and comment on their stories.

Well, to be more accurate, it's fair to say the only 'good' readers in their opinion seem to be those those that give a story a very high score, or an overjoyed, 100% positive comment. I'm no psychologist, but it appears that many post stories in the hopes of winning some sort of numbers game with little other motivation. They track trends, follower counts, comment rates per story, per category, on and on, turning freely published erotica into a scientific research study.

Then there are a number of 'home team' insults and abbreviations for anyone that doesn't have the same kinks they do, or who doesn't vote their stories high enough. They're all sort of lumped into the same bucket of losers, or people of the wrong political leanings (no matter if they've expressed any political views or not), or morons that have no life, have spouses that must hate them, etc., etc.

Fairly high profile and active authors routinely dump insult after insult on the people reading and scoring/commenting on their stories. Of course, it's still free speech and I don't fault them for their opinions. Yet, I can't help but wonder why they've turned this more into a sporting event than an artistic effort and love the fanboys and hate those that root for a different team.

If you don't like the comments, delete them as so many have recommended. I don't see much point in stewing over the ones you don't like. There is no book, song, or movie, that everyone in the world loves equally. Opinions vary, wildly at times, and rarely more than they do when it comes to sexual desires of fantasies, so having a wide range of opinions on a story posted here seems something that you should logically expect.

Of course, there is one other insult I've left myself open for here, in that I have a number of stories in final editing stages, but haven't posted any yet, which, at least in the minds of many here, means none of my opinions have any validity at all.

Oh well, I'll just have to deal with that for the time being.

This is a troll post.

 

[meddlesome]

Why? Because you don't like it? Please, clarify yourself.

I see some valid points.

Trolls can make valid points, but that post was intended to get under people's skin.

 

[SimonDoom]

75 stories have been published in Loving Wives over the last 7 days, and not a single one has a score of 4.5 or more. It's not the place to publish it you want high scores, although many of the stories get lots of views and plenty of favorites, and interesting comments.

 

[SimonDoom]

Considering the labels that come with the rating (Hate it; Dislike; Average; Like it; Love it), that makes it look like LW stories get a more realistic voting than the other categories .

I don't agree with that.

The difference between Loving Wives voting and voting in other categories is very simple. Loving Wives voters are much, MUCH more likely to vote up or down on a story based on whether they approve or disapprove of the subject matter of the story, irrespective of the skill with which the story is told. It's a very obvious peculiarity of the category that is amply evidenced by the comments readers make. I don't see reader comments like that in other categories.

In most categories, readers who like a story are more likely to vote than those who don't. Those who don't choose not to vote, or choose not to finish the story and then not vote. That's why scores skew high.

But in Loving Wives, substantial numbers of readers, as soon as they figure out that the story is what they regard as a "cuck" story that violates their moral sensibilities, stop reading, fast forward to the end, and downvote the story. The quality of the writing is irrelevant. How do we know this? Because the reader comments say this is exactly what they do.

I see no evidence of this happening in other categories to nearly the same degree.

 

[AngstIgnored]

[changed my mind]

 

[gordo12]

75 stories have been published in Loving Wives over the last 7 days, and not a single one has a score of 4.5 or more. It's not the place to publish it you want high scores, although many of the stories get lots of views and plenty of favorites, and interesting comments.

Publishing there has always come with a .25 - .50 penalty. Lately, it's worse.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why did you remove the rest of my comment? That more-or-less showed that I agree with your reaction.

But not completely; I think it's a sad reality that most readers(writers) are uncomfortable to give less than a 5*, even if they read the whole story. It's sad that the scoring is skewed in a way that any score below 4.5 is considered 'bad' by most writers. But that's another dead horse.

I didn't do that to give short-shrift to your whole comment. I did it to clarify exactly which portion of your comment I was responding to. I often do that to make clear exactly what I'm responding to. If it seems like by doing that I distorted what you meant to say, then I apologize, because that was not my intention.

I agree voting customs are weird at Literotica, because the way things are set up people are loath to give scores under 5, and that means that the people giving scores under 5 often are jerks or have agendas. But that's the way it is. I don't think it's accurate to say Loving Wives stories are graded more accurately or realistically than other categories. I think the opposite is true, because the basis for the score in Loving Wives is much more likely to be a preexisting bias about story content than in any other category. There are defenders of voting in Loving Wives who contend that LW readers are just more discriminating than others, and that's a lot of nonsense. It's transparently false if you actually read the comments and compare story quality with scores.

 

[RejectReality]

Why did you remove the rest of my comment? That more-or-less showed that I agree with your reaction.

But not completely; I think it's a sad reality that most readers(writers) are uncomfortable to give less than a 5*, even if they read the whole story. It's sad that the scoring is skewed in a way that any score below 4.5 is considered 'bad' by most writers. But that's another dead horse.

If you think score inflation is bad here, you should see the scores on one of my other sites. I had a story pick up a 4, which dropped it to 4.99. It went from getting around a thousand views a month consistently for years to double digits per month overnight.

The first 100+ stories in every category's ( of which there are many, many more ) equivalent of our toplists all have perfect 5s, so as soon as you get a 4 that drops you out of that, it's game over. If something has less than a 4.9 on opening day, you can write that one off as well. No new eyes. It's essentially invisible to anyone who doesn't already follow your work.

If someone gives you a three, it's the voting equivalent of sucker punching you in the back of the head, curb stomping you, and then pissing in your mouth through all the broken teeth. A single 3 has about the same destructive power as a barrage of 1-bombs here, with no Hoover to potentially take it away in the future.