Loving Wives vs Incest/Non-conscent

[Syzoth]

Hello, everyone.

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but... I realize how difficult it is for a writer to post stories in the Loving Wives category. I see the comments there. However, I wonder if the same people who write those comments show the same zealousness in the Incest and Nonconscent categories?

I mean, you have "Loving Wives" which, to my understanding, involves a husband willingly sharing his wife with other people. Other the other hand, you have incest and non-conscent which, not matter how you spin it, are far worse than the idea of "loving wives".

The hypocrisy is kind of funny.

Then again, I don't think the people who post negative comments in the LW section even read the stories. They're all so generic and similar.

Thoughts?

 

[lovecraft68]

Incest doesn't seem to get a lot of trolling, but there's a few "You're sick, this is sick" comments that are from the type of moral crusader that goes up and down the site posting that about a lot of things.

What will take some heat there is any form of non consent, I/T readers don't like seeing NC in a story, and my long time feeling on this is because we come here to read fun fantasy 18+ I/T stories, we know its abuse and a bad thing in real life, so don't want to have something that kills the fantasy and reminds people a lot of this in real life is NC.

IN the NC category, there are a lot of people who police the category in comments. Despite the name and nature of the kink, you will see a lot of comments like "This went too far" "This is rape" and again, I think this is for the same reason as the I/T crowd. They know what their kink is in real life, and many there are looking more for reluctance or Dub con, and will call out any 'real rape' story. Oh, and the "this is sick" kink shamers pop in there too.

That breeds other haunt is in Gay Male where they read, fap, then get mad they did and call out the author....

Loving wives has more trolls, because it has more factions than most categories, one faction is a sane readership, but the rest all hate some aspect of the category, read there anyway and flame whatever it is they don't like there. The category is full of scorned men who seem to like to piss themselves off reading stories they won't like then abusing the author and any reader who might have liked the story. Of all the categories here, that base is the one that can't seperate fiction from real life

 

[Badguy4u]

IDK, in my view if you don't like a certain category, don't read it. Or if you start a story and it's going somewhere you're not comfortable, stop reading it. We're all a bunch of pervs on here, so I don't see why anyone should be shaming someone else. Save that for the church

 

[Lifestyle66]

When it comes to the hate comments, recognize that when you read one of those comments, it is written by just ONE individual.

I post a story to Loving Wives, and sometimes I'll watch as the ratings build and comments post. If my story eventually garners 25,000 views, it may have had only FIFTY 1-votes ("hated it") and only about ten of those leaving hateful comments. That's fifty haters out of twenty-five THOUSAND readers.

Keep it in perspective: HATE isn't in the majority, it's just loud.

 

[SimonDoom]

There is no counterpart in the incest and nonconsent categories to the sharp division of readers into diametrically opposed camps that one finds in Loving Wives. Readers who click on incest stories pretty much know what they're going to get, and they're there because that's what they want. This isn't at all true of Loving Wives, where you have a camp of readers who like the revenge stories and cannot stand any stories where the wife has sex outside of marriage.

I don't agree with the OP's statement that the conduct in incest stories is "obviously worse" than the conduct in loving wives stories. At Literotica, incest stories are about adult consensual behavior. Personally, I don't see that as obviously wrong. Cheating, on the other hand (meaning, real cheating, not consensual Lifestyle choices) is morally bad and often harmful. Nonconsent, obviously, is bad, unless it's "roleplay" nonconsent, meaning not really nonconsent. But in that category, the category itself filters out those who might make nasty comments, unlike loving wives.

 

[EmilyMiller]

There is no counterpart in the incest and nonconsent categories to the sharp division of readers into diametrically opposed camps that one finds in Loving Wives. Readers who click on incest stories pretty much know what they're going to get, and they're there because that's what they want. This isn't at all true of Loving Wives, where you have a camp of readers who like the revenge stories and cannot stand any stories where the wife has sex outside of marriage.

I don't agree with the OP's statement that the conduct in incest stories is "obviously worse" than the conduct in loving wives stories. At Literotica, incest stories are about adult consensual behavior. Personally, I don't see that as obviously wrong. Cheating, on the other hand (meaning, real cheating, not consensual Lifestyle choices) is morally bad and often harmful. Nonconsent, obviously, is bad, unless it's "roleplay" nonconsent, meaning not really nonconsent. But in that category, the category itself filters out those who might make nasty comments, unlike loving wives.

I think I find I/T icky (as well documented) precisely because it’s mostly non-con IRL (I’m willing to entertain that there could be sibling incest not based on power dynamics).

But more generally, I think cheating is bad IRL, not because it’s morally wrong, or against some religious teaching, but because it’s having promised to base a relationship on one thing and then doing something else. That’s disrespectful to the relationship and to the other person.

Just my POV.

Emily

 

[Lifestyle66]

But more generally, I think cheating is bad IRL, not because it’s morally wrong, or against some religious teaching, but because it’s having promised to base a relationship on one thing and then doing something else. That’s disrespectful to the relationship and to the other person.

The issue I have with that belief is in conveying reality in stories.

In REALITY, after years of a couple being together, people change. "Familiarity breeds contempt" as that old saying goes.
What constitutes "cheating"? Is it just the physical act of extra-marital sex? Or could it also be the contempt and ignorance one spouse demonstrate toward the other over long periods of time? Promises work both ways in a marriage, and those promises are NOT just about sex!

When we write stories, those other hurts are often ignored by the readers, and they focus on just the sex. But IRL, relationships are far more complex.

One of my 750-word stories "Quiet, Don't Wake Him" shows such other hurts before any cheating. And it's doing rather well in Loving Wives at 3.81 with 25K views and 1.5K votes. Many comments say the husband staying in a toxic marriage "for the kids" is wrong and he's spineless. But those commenters apparently don't know the reality of divorce when dealing with toxic and volatile individuals.

 

[lovecraft68]

Sigh,

 

[SimonDoom]

I think I find I/T icky (as well documented) precisely because it’s mostly non-con IRL (I’m willing to entertain that there could be sibling incest not based on power dynamics).

It is, but so much of Lit fiction is obviously fantasy material, unconnected with the real world, that it puzzles me why this seems to bother so many so much. I see it as no different from tentacle porn stories. In real life, it would probably be awful, but in fiction one has limitless opportunity to create worlds unbounded by reality.

But more generally, I think cheating is bad IRL, not because it’s morally wrong, or against some religious teaching, but because it’s having promised to base a relationship on one thing and then doing something else. That’s disrespectful to the relationship and to the other person.

I don't understand this. "Cheating," as I described it, is a form of dishonesty. I don't regard sex outside marriage with the knowing consent of the partners as cheating. It's cheating when it's done behind someone's back, without the other person's knowledge, which is a form of dishonesty, and dishonesty, especially about something so fundamental, is inherently immoral. It has nothing to do with religion.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Keep it in perspective: HATE isn't in the majority, it's just loud.

True words for many aspects of life.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

Hello, everyone.

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but... I realize how difficult it is for a writer to post stories in the Loving Wives category. I see the comments there. However, I wonder if the same people who write those comments show the same zealousness in the Incest and Nonconscent categories?

I mean, you have "Loving Wives" which, to my understanding, involves a husband willingly sharing his wife with other people. Other the other hand, you have incest and non-conscent which, not matter how you spin it, are far worse than the idea of "loving wives".

The hypocrisy is kind of funny.

Then again, I don't think the people who post negative comments in the LW section even read the stories. They're all so generic and similar.

Thoughts?

Hi Syzoth, I'm Kasumi Lee (I can't change my old penname StealthBreeder).

For a deeper insight into Loving Wives, you should go check out NoTalentHack's essay "Loving Loving Wives". I once posted a hard cuckolding story in LW (not to troll the people there, there's just no where else to put it except for Fetish) and it got review-bombed into the ground within hours of going live. Having read NoTalentHack's essay afterwards, I probably should have posted it in Fetish.

Readers in LW have EXTREMELY particular expectations about what should go there in a way that isn't the case with NC/R or Incest. The spectrum of husbands (or wives) sharing their spouses is so broad that it ranges from swinging to hardcore cuckolding, and the LW crowd do NOT like hardcore cuckolding. There really ought to be a separate Cuckolding category so that Loving Wives can be devoted to swinging and the like.

By contrast, the other categories are much more specifically defined. I only recently posted my first Incest story, but I've written a lot of NC/R stuff, and although I've had the occasional commenter in my NC/R stories who professes to be shocked, SHOCKED, that the story contains nonconsensual sex, the vast majority of readers are in the NC/R category because they like NC/R stuff and expect to find it there. Much the same applies to Incest, I suspect.

Best,

Kasumi Lee

 

[Britva415]

it’s having promised to base a relationship on one thing and then doing something else.

Sure, that's a fine definition of "cheating," but when the relationships in the story are obviously not based on the kind of promise you're talking about, the LW commenters who bitch about cheating are...

...well, not "stupid," but you probably have seen my other comment in another thread about "character."

 

[FifthEstate]

The spectrum of husbands (or wives) sharing their spouses is so broad that it ranges from swinging to hardcore cuckolding, and the LW crowd do NOT like hardcore cuckolding. There really ought to be a separate Cuckolding category so that Loving Wives can be devoted to swinging and the like.

A faction of the LW crowd do not like hardcore cuckolding. I agree there should be a separate category broken out from LW, but it shouldn’t separate cuckolding and swinging, it should extract BTB.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Hi Syzoth, I'm Kasumi Lee (I can't change my old penname StealthBreeder).

For a deeper insight into Loving Wives, you should go check out NoTalentHack's essay "Loving Loving Wives". I once posted a hard cuckolding story in LW (not to troll the people there, there's just no where else to put it except for Fetish) and it got review-bombed into the ground within hours of going live. Having read NoTalentHack's essay afterwards, I probably should have posted it in Fetish.

Readers in LW have EXTREMELY particular expectations about what should go there in a way that isn't the case with NC/R or Incest. The spectrum of husbands (or wives) sharing their spouses is so broad that it ranges from swinging to hardcore cuckolding, and the LW crowd do NOT like hardcore cuckolding. There really ought to be a separate Cuckolding category so that Loving Wives can be devoted to swinging and the like.

By contrast, the other categories are much more specifically defined. I only recently posted my first Incest story, but I've written a lot of NC/R stuff, and although I've had the occasional commenter in my NC/R stories who professes to be shocked, SHOCKED, that the story contains nonconsensual sex, the vast majority of readers are in the NC/R category because they like NC/R stuff and expect to find it there. Much the same applies to Incest, I suspect.

Best,

Kasumi Lee

You have ONE story in LW, "Thank You, Darling" "A pregnant wife has a special surprise for her dear husband," which you posted in November.

I read that (and included the link for others to enjoy), and we've had these exchanges over it in other forum threads.

That title and description was "trolling". There is no way that story of BDSM, humiliation, subservience, interracial breeding should be called "hardcore" cuckolding. That was sadistic torment, and I'm surprised that it has a rating of 2.43. The wife taking GREAT pleasure in forever abusing her husband? Anyone who enjoyed that story must have fun pulling the wings off flies, kicking dogs, or torturing crippled kids.

Given that you have plenty of stories posted to NC/R, you knew what you were doing posting that one to LW.

 

[lovecraft68]

You have ONE story in LW, "Thank You, Darling" "A pregnant wife has a special surprise for her dear husband," which you posted in November.

I read that (and included the link for others to enjoy), and we've had these exchanges over it in other forum threads.

That title and description was "trolling". There is no way that story of BDSM, humiliation, subservience, interracial breeding should be called "hardcore" cuckolding. That was sadistic torment, and I'm surprised that it has a rating of 2.43. The wife taking GREAT pleasure in forever abusing her husband? Anyone who enjoyed that story must have fun pulling the wings off flies, kicking dogs, or torturing crippled kids.

Given that you have plenty of stories posted to NC/R, you knew what you were doing posting that one to LW.

Its funny how you flip out when people point out all the violence and nastiness in that category...I mean they're just stories, right?

Now you're losing your mind over a story YOU don't think belongs there.

People's complaint over there is about violent non erotic stories being placed in an erotic category. You're freaking out over what some people do consider erotic fetishes in an erotic category.

Hate to break it to you, but you don't own that category.

 

[lustychimera]

Despite the name and nature of the kink, you will see a lot of comments like "This went too far" "This is rape" and again, I think this is for the same reason as the I/T crowd. They know what their kink is in real life, and many there are looking more for reluctance or Dub con, and will call out any 'real rape' story.

This is really weird to me. Someone who comments that would really set my hackles off. Like they don't believe that dubious consent isn't rape? "I'm one of the good ones! I'd only go as far as dubious consent IRL! You're the real sicko for exploring real rape kinks in a perfectly safe work of fiction."

They're probably the same people who sent Jack Gleeson death threats for beheading Ned Stark.

Maybe I'm reading these stories wrong?

What I like in fiction is absolutely not what I want in real life. A five man gang bang? Hot AF to me in a story. IRL? That would scare the shit outa me. The eroticism comes from delving into those fantasies in a safe environment in their most idealized setting with people who don't exist. Some of that stuff, I can't even fathom IRL, but I like it in fiction.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Its funny how you flip out when people point out all the violence and nastiness in that category...I mean they're just stories, right?

Now you're losing your mind over a story YOU don't think belongs there.

People's complaint over there is about violent non erotic stories being placed in an erotic category. You're freaking out over what some people do consider erotic fetishes in an erotic category.

Hate to break it to you, but you don't own that category.

Did YOU read that story? Did you even bother to read the title and description to see what SB considered "hardcore"?

I tend to read a lot of the LW stories, and that one was a very sick surprise, far surpassing many of the worst BTB stories (which I don't like either).

 

[lovecraft68]

This is really weird to me. Someone who comments that would really set my hackles off. Like they don't believe that dubious consent isn't rape? "I'm one of the good ones! I'd only go as far as dubious consent IRL! You're the real sicko for exploring real rape kinks in a perfectly safe work of fiction."

They're probably the same people who sent Jack Gleeson death threats for beheading Ned Stark.

Maybe I'm reading these stories wrong?

What I like in fiction is absolutely not what I want in real life. A five man gang bang? Hot AF to me in a story. IRL? That would scare the shit outa me. The eroticism comes from delving into those fantasies in a safe environment in their most idealized setting with people who don't exist. Some of that stuff, I can't even fathom IRL, but I like it in fiction.

I'm not saying I buy the justification of the commenters in NC, I'm saying that its there.

Dub con is tricky, when done right it falls more under some reluctance, but done wrong, yes its what you're saying.

Its not my thing to read or write, other than a piss poor attempt 12 years ago.

As a fantasy kink, NC still isn't my thing, but I get the kink, and what complicates things here is the site's double talk of 'we don't allow rape stories, but hey, see our non consent section?" so, some of this on their sketchy 'rules' and maybe that's where the "this doesn't belong here" comes from?

Mind control is 100% non consent, like its not even funny some people don't think so, and its not a well read category at all and I think that's why. NC/R has a mix of stories so people will go find what they want. MC is the real rape cat here.

But again, fantasy is fantasy. I'd rather the site just say "yeah, go for it" because that's less squicky then them promoting the "no never means no" game of 'the victim has to like it"

 

[EmilyMiller]

It is, but so much of Lit fiction is obviously fantasy material, unconnected with the real world, that it puzzles me why this seems to bother so many so much. I see it as no different from tentacle porn stories. In real life, it would probably be awful, but in fiction one has limitless opportunity to create worlds unbounded by reality.

You haven’t read my tentacle porn have you, hun? I know what most tentacle porn is like - I did research. That’s not what I wrote, for precisely the reasons we are discussing. I am at least reasonably self-consistent.

I don't understand this. "Cheating," as I described it, is a form of dishonesty. I don't regard sex outside marriage with the knowing consent of the partners as cheating. It's cheating when it's done behind someone's back, without the other person's knowledge, which is a form of dishonesty, and dishonesty, especially about something so fundamental, is inherently immoral. It has nothing to do with religion.

If that was for me, we are agreeing. Regardless of vows, it’s what the people involved have agreed. If that’s open, then cool. If not, then it’s a betrayal.

Simple really.

Emily

 

[DrPope]

LW has become way to compartmentalized into essentially mutually exclusive warring factions categorized into 3 main groups ... THE BTB'ers. THE RAAC'ers and THE CUCKS ..... unfortunately the more realistic middle of the road sharing/hotwife stuff that's really well done has been lost in the battle ...it's there but you just have to look for it.

 

[DrPope]

I once posted a hard cuckolding story in LW (not to troll the people there, there's just no where else to put it except for Fetish) and it got review-bombed into the ground within hours of going live

Are you serious ? You wrote it as a troll story .... you got exactly what you deserved.

 

[Lifestyle66]

LW has become way to compartmentalized into essentially mutually exclusive warring factions categorized into 3 main groups ... THE BTB'ers. THE RAAC'ers and THE CUCKS ..... unfortunately the more realistic middle of the road sharing/hotwife stuff that's really well done has been lost in the battle ...it's there but you just have to look for it.

I suspect some of the most violent BTB stories posted there might be written by alt accounts of those decrying them. Just like that one in discussion as "hardcore" cuckolding? REALLY?

Without the sickest of shit posted there, how could they continue to claim the LW readers are a bunch of misogynists?

 

[SimonDoom]

I know what most tentacle porn is like - I did research.

LOL. I'm wondering what your definition of "is" is.

 

[DrPope]

I suspect some of the most violent BTB stories posted there might be written by alt accounts of those decrying them. Just like that one in discussion as "hardcore" cuckolding? REALLY?

Without the sickest of shit posted there, how could they continue to claim the LW readers are a bunch of misogynists?

I don't know ...I don't get it. I just embrace the spectrum and I HATE HardCuck stuff .... but I do find LW hilarious .... I just love some of the comments ...best writing on lit.

 

[StillStunned]

It is, but so much of Lit fiction is obviously fantasy material, unconnected with the real world, that it puzzles me why this seems to bother so many so much. I see it as no different from tentacle porn stories. In real life, it would probably be awful, but in fiction one has limitless opportunity to create worlds unbounded by reality.

Clearly, the tentacles are a metaphor for the intrusive bonds that society places on us. Or maybe for each of Lit's categories, and how they mess with our minds. Or maybe they represent the different kinds of interactions we have here on Lit, with readers, writers and commenters. Or maybe they all represent Em's alts, twisting and probing and...

Alright, I haven't read any of the tentacle stories.