Love and Domination

[catalina_francisco]

I think the problem of love and ownership are common basically because of the culture we are raised in. If we are able to look beyond that and recognise that in this world owning and being owned can be loving in that it answers the needs of the object of your affection and yourself, than it can work. It needs vigilence though as the cultural undertones are so deeply embedded in our subconscious, they tend to creep up unnoticed and undo all the good we have achieved. For me, being owned and treated as such is one of the most loving things he can do and I know it rings his bells and is what he wants too, but still we face this continual struggle of reminding ourselves this is how we want and need it, it is not a show of disrespect or lack of love and caring.

Catalina

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Hear, hear to the love bond. I love my sub dearly, and he and his welfare mean a lot to me. Mind you, I'm not the strictest Domm out there, nor the most sadistic, so I don't know how it would work with other couples. But for us, the D/s aspect and some sadism is very much present, but it works.

that is us as well....

We have what works for us and makes us happy...

 

[kayte]

It is so great to see this thread active.

 

[s_red830]

that is us as well....

We have what works for us and makes us happy...

Of course. I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the oddball for not being much of a sadist.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Of course. I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the oddball for not being much of a sadist.

I do like sadistic play and to push her limits, but there are some things oh hell no...

I don't think that we are that oddball...

 

[s_red830]

I do like sadistic play and to push her limits, but there are some things oh hell no...

I don't think that we are that oddball...

Yeah... just from comparing myself to others on this site (which I know I shouldn't, but I do anyway...) it sometimes seems as though I'm not very sadistic, even though I do like sadistic play... it's just hard for me to get over the hurdle of "well, can I do this to him if he doesn't want it?" etc. etc. Blah blah blah. But these are just my personal insecurities and I'm glad to hear a voice of reassurance. Thanks.... I'm so new at this.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Yeah... just from comparing myself to others on this site (which I know I shouldn't, but I do anyway...) it sometimes seems as though I'm not very sadistic, even though I do like sadistic play... it's just hard for me to get over the hurdle of "well, can I do this to him if he doesn't want it?" etc. etc. Blah blah blah. But these are just my personal insecurities and I'm glad to hear a voice of reassurance. Thanks.... I'm so new at this.

Well, I have a really good idea of where My baby wants to go, and even more importantly where she is willing to go. We do have a safeword in effect in case it gets too intense, tho thus far I have been able to read her reactions well enough to know when it was getting to be close to too much and could either back off a bit or reassure her.

Remember, this lifestyle is a journey not a sprint. Take the time and explore and find what works for you and your sub... and go from there.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I wrote this a while back for my website (currently down for technical issues) under the Scene name I was using back then. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll post it here again...

On Love, and D/s
- ©2000, by Lord HamiltonZ ​

(NOTE: This was originally posted to the Loving Dominants Association mail list in response to several posts by submissives complaining about the fact that if Dominants "fell in love" with them, the Dominants seemed to stop _being_ Dominant. There are a few grammatical and spelling corrections made here from the original post.)

There seems to be a feeling by some, that "love" lessens Dominance. That tenderness equates somehow with a lessened sense of "Mastery". Rubbish. Dominance and submission are emotional states, constantly in flux within a relationship. They may be aided by physical play such as S/M or B&D. But I need never lift a hand to be Dominant. I am Dominant and always will be, whether I take flogger to you or not. And you need never take a spanking or be tied to be submissive. Taking a caning or being used by Me for My pleasure is not what makes you a submissive.

My Dominance comes from My heart. Just as My love does. Do not confuse tenderness with weakness, and strictness with Dominance. I can be as soft and tender as a teddy bear and Dominate you. It is who I am. You follow Me because it is your heart's path to do so. It is, perhaps, your thought that a Dominant somehow needs to maintain their position, that they must "make" their submissives.. submit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't have to _do_ anything to make you submit. If I have to make you do it, whether by use of coercion, pain, strength, blackmail, you are not submitting, you are not consenting. I am forcing.

There is a huge difference between a scene such as a mock rape or kidnapping, and living in a power exchange. Within the context of a scene I may threaten, cajole, use force, whatever... But in My relationship, I will not _make_ you do anything. I will not punish with anything more than disappointment and something to make you regard your error, perhaps a writing assignment or an unpleasant household chore. You submit to My will and My direction. I do not force you to follow.

Consent. You consent to our relationship. You submit to My will. If you do not, then perhaps it is best for you to seek someone who will play the game you seek. I don't play emotional games in My relationship. I expect submission. Submission does not mean blind obedience. Submission does not mean becoming a doormat. Submission means that you turn your will over to Me. My decisions are your law. That doesn't mean you can't argue, because I have charged you with looking after My best interests. You are charged with taking care of Me, meeting My needs. If I do something that you feel is against My best interest, it is your duty to ME to point that out. And My duty to you to listen. And then decide what to do. And once I make that decision it is your duty to try to make it come out right.

I have a responsibility to you as well. You have turned your will over to Me. I am responsible to meet your needs, to care for you. To nourish, to nurture, to help you grow stronger, wiser. So you in turn can care for Me better, so I can care for you better. We are not here to play emotional games with each other. If you have needs, communicate them clearly, honestly and directly. I am not a mind reader. Do not expect Me to meet them if you do not communicate them. I will, by default do as _I_ need to do. And if that is to be gentle, kind, loving, you have agreed to that by submitting to Me.

There seems to be some confusion also, between discipline, and punishment. Discipline is action taken to correct an unwanted behavior, to correct a problem. If I can correct that problem with a word, or a look, I _have_ disciplined you. Do not equate punishment with discipline. I may punish you within the context of a scene, the strict Schoolmaster spanking the naughty student, the Prison Guard beating an unruly prisoner, the Sadist tormenting a victim... But I will discipline you within our relationship as befits the offense.

Do not act out trying to goad Me into sternness, into strictness, into punishing you. If you are doing so, you are topping from the bottom. You are being deceitful in that you are not communicating your needs to Me honestly, directly or clearly. You are not going to get sternness, you will get anger. You won't get strictness, nor punishment, you will get disappointment and displeasure. You will not get discipline, you will get dismissed.

Think on these words, and use of them what you will. The path of My heart is not the path of all others. As always, YMMV.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Well, I have a really good idea of where My baby wants to go, and even more importantly where she is willing to go. We do have a safeword in effect in case it gets too intense, tho thus far I have been able to read her reactions well enough to know when it was getting to be close to too much and could either back off a bit or reassure her.

Remember, this lifestyle is a journey not a sprint. Take the time and explore and find what works for you and your sub... and go from there.

*smiles at His words* i do so love when He talks like this and i do trust that He knows me well enough to know my limits, be it the ones i'm ok with Him pushing or the ones i do not want Him to ever push. i think that's what it's all about, the Dom knowing the limits and boundries and the submissive trusting in the Dom to walk that razor's edge between pushing and going over. if it was something i 'didn't want' i know Master would not take me there, alot of times He knows before i do that it's too much for me and will either, as He said, back off or re-assure me that everything is alright and then continue on,either way, He knows me well enough to know when it's tiem to back off or continue on, and that's one of the one million four hundred twenty two thousand and six hundred and fifty two things that i LOVE about Him *grins*

 

[submissiveknight]

Our relationship has always been based on love! We were two people that were just meant to be with each other. We dated for about a month before circumstances in life seperated us. I remember one night seeing my Princess when We weren't dating and She asked me to do something, what it was I can't recall. I told Her no! She looked like She was agasped, I remember She said, "thats the first time you have ever told me no!" That burned in me for a long time just as Her eyes did. We got back together a few years later. I told Her no one more time when She asked me to marry Her, She literally fumed that night! The next night I explained that I was a traditionalist, as I slipped a ring on Her finger and asked Her to marry me. Those are the only two times I have ever utterd the word no to Her. We have lived a D/s relationship since the first time We ever met, it just wasn't a sealed affirmination. We never knew it. Hell We never thought of what D/s was until our neighbor slid Her some books on domination and told Her, You really need to read these. She still has never read them! I discoverd it when I began reading about Our lives that are so simialar to alot of the BDSM stories about D/s on Lit. I finally asked Her in a letter to become my Mistress! She just turned around at me after She read it and said "I was just waiting for You to ask!" It's been sealed since. Our love grows fonder by each day that passes!!!

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I wrote this a while back for my website (currently down for technical issues) under the Scene name I was using back then. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll post it here again...

On Love, and D/s
- ©2000, by Lord HamiltonZ ​

(NOTE: This was originally posted to the Loving Dominants Association mail list in response to several posts by submissives complaining about the fact that if Dominants "fell in love" with them, the Dominants seemed to stop _being_ Dominant. There are a few grammatical and spelling corrections made here from the original post.)

There seems to be a feeling by some, that "love" lessens Dominance. That tenderness equates somehow with a lessened sense of "Mastery". Rubbish. Dominance and submission are emotional states, constantly in flux within a relationship. They may be aided by physical play such as S/M or B&D. But I need never lift a hand to be Dominant. I am Dominant and always will be, whether I take flogger to you or not. And you need never take a spanking or be tied to be submissive. Taking a caning or being used by Me for My pleasure is not what makes you a submissive.

My Dominance comes from My heart. Just as My love does. Do not confuse tenderness with weakness, and strictness with Dominance. I can be as soft and tender as a teddy bear and Dominate you. It is who I am. You follow Me because it is your heart's path to do so. It is, perhaps, your thought that a Dominant somehow needs to maintain their position, that they must "make" their submissives.. submit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't have to _do_ anything to make you submit. If I have to make you do it, whether by use of coercion, pain, strength, blackmail, you are not submitting, you are not consenting. I am forcing.

There is a huge difference between a scene such as a mock rape or kidnapping, and living in a power exchange. Within the context of a scene I may threaten, cajole, use force, whatever... But in My relationship, I will not _make_ you do anything. I will not punish with anything more than disappointment and something to make you regard your error, perhaps a writing assignment or an unpleasant household chore. You submit to My will and My direction. I do not force you to follow.

Consent. You consent to our relationship. You submit to My will. If you do not, then perhaps it is best for you to seek someone who will play the game you seek. I don't play emotional games in My relationship. I expect submission. Submission does not mean blind obedience. Submission does not mean becoming a doormat. Submission means that you turn your will over to Me. My decisions are your law. That doesn't mean you can't argue, because I have charged you with looking after My best interests. You are charged with taking care of Me, meeting My needs. If I do something that you feel is against My best interest, it is your duty to ME to point that out. And My duty to you to listen. And then decide what to do. And once I make that decision it is your duty to try to make it come out right.

I have a responsibility to you as well. You have turned your will over to Me. I am responsible to meet your needs, to care for you. To nourish, to nurture, to help you grow stronger, wiser. So you in turn can care for Me better, so I can care for you better. We are not here to play emotional games with each other. If you have needs, communicate them clearly, honestly and directly. I am not a mind reader. Do not expect Me to meet them if you do not communicate them. I will, by default do as _I_ need to do. And if that is to be gentle, kind, loving, you have agreed to that by submitting to Me.

There seems to be some confusion also, between discipline, and punishment. Discipline is action taken to correct an unwanted behavior, to correct a problem. If I can correct that problem with a word, or a look, I _have_ disciplined you. Do not equate punishment with discipline. I may punish you within the context of a scene, the strict Schoolmaster spanking the naughty student, the Prison Guard beating an unruly prisoner, the Sadist tormenting a victim... But I will discipline you within our relationship as befits the offense.

Do not act out trying to goad Me into sternness, into strictness, into punishing you. If you are doing so, you are topping from the bottom. You are being deceitful in that you are not communicating your needs to Me honestly, directly or clearly. You are not going to get sternness, you will get anger. You won't get strictness, nor punishment, you will get disappointment and displeasure. You will not get discipline, you will get dismissed.

Think on these words, and use of them what you will. The path of My heart is not the path of all others. As always, YMMV.

Very well written... and very true...

Kudos!

 

[MasterPhoenix]

*smiles at His words* i do so love when He talks like this and i do trust that He knows me well enough to know my limits, be it the ones i'm ok with Him pushing or the ones i do not want Him to ever push. i think that's what it's all about, the Dom knowing the limits and boundries and the submissive trusting in the Dom to walk that razor's edge between pushing and going over. if it was something i 'didn't want' i know Master would not take me there, alot of times He knows before i do that it's too much for me and will either, as He said, back off or re-assure me that everything is alright and then continue on,either way, He knows me well enough to know when it's tiem to back off or continue on, and that's one of the one million four hundred twenty two thousand and six hundred and fifty two things that i LOVE about Him *grins*

Those are things that I have to know to ensure that we get the maximum effect our of our playing.

only 1,422,652 things you love about Me?

I thought there were more than that....

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Our relationship has always been based on love! We were two people that were just meant to be with each other. We dated for about a month before circumstances in life seperated us. I remember one night seeing my Princess when We weren't dating and She asked me to do something, what it was I can't recall. I told Her no! She looked like She was agasped, I remember She said, "thats the first time you have ever told me no!" That burned in me for a long time just as Her eyes did. We got back together a few years later. I told Her no one more time when She asked me to marry Her, She literally fumed that night! The next night I explained that I was a traditionalist, as I slipped a ring on Her finger and asked Her to marry me. Those are the only two times I have ever utterd the word no to Her. We have lived a D/s relationship since the first time We ever met, it just wasn't a sealed affirmination. We never knew it. Hell We never thought of what D/s was until our neighbor slid Her some books on domination and told Her, You really need to read these. She still has never read them! I discoverd it when I began reading about Our lives that are so simialar to alot of the BDSM stories about D/s on Lit. I finally asked Her in a letter to become my Mistress! She just turned around at me after She read it and said "I was just waiting for You to ask!" It's been sealed since. Our love grows fonder by each day that passes!!!

That is a lovely story...

 

[BiBunny]

I wrote this a while back for my website (currently down for technical issues) under the Scene name I was using back then. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll post it here again...

On Love, and D/s
- ©2000, by Lord HamiltonZ ​

(NOTE: This was originally posted to the Loving Dominants Association mail list in response to several posts by submissives complaining about the fact that if Dominants "fell in love" with them, the Dominants seemed to stop _being_ Dominant. There are a few grammatical and spelling corrections made here from the original post.)

There seems to be a feeling by some, that "love" lessens Dominance. That tenderness equates somehow with a lessened sense of "Mastery". Rubbish. Dominance and submission are emotional states, constantly in flux within a relationship. They may be aided by physical play such as S/M or B&D. But I need never lift a hand to be Dominant. I am Dominant and always will be, whether I take flogger to you or not. And you need never take a spanking or be tied to be submissive. Taking a caning or being used by Me for My pleasure is not what makes you a submissive.

My Dominance comes from My heart. Just as My love does. Do not confuse tenderness with weakness, and strictness with Dominance. I can be as soft and tender as a teddy bear and Dominate you. It is who I am. You follow Me because it is your heart's path to do so. It is, perhaps, your thought that a Dominant somehow needs to maintain their position, that they must "make" their submissives.. submit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't have to _do_ anything to make you submit. If I have to make you do it, whether by use of coercion, pain, strength, blackmail, you are not submitting, you are not consenting. I am forcing.

There is a huge difference between a scene such as a mock rape or kidnapping, and living in a power exchange. Within the context of a scene I may threaten, cajole, use force, whatever... But in My relationship, I will not _make_ you do anything. I will not punish with anything more than disappointment and something to make you regard your error, perhaps a writing assignment or an unpleasant household chore. You submit to My will and My direction. I do not force you to follow.

Consent. You consent to our relationship. You submit to My will. If you do not, then perhaps it is best for you to seek someone who will play the game you seek. I don't play emotional games in My relationship. I expect submission. Submission does not mean blind obedience. Submission does not mean becoming a doormat. Submission means that you turn your will over to Me. My decisions are your law. That doesn't mean you can't argue, because I have charged you with looking after My best interests. You are charged with taking care of Me, meeting My needs. If I do something that you feel is against My best interest, it is your duty to ME to point that out. And My duty to you to listen. And then decide what to do. And once I make that decision it is your duty to try to make it come out right.

I have a responsibility to you as well. You have turned your will over to Me. I am responsible to meet your needs, to care for you. To nourish, to nurture, to help you grow stronger, wiser. So you in turn can care for Me better, so I can care for you better. We are not here to play emotional games with each other. If you have needs, communicate them clearly, honestly and directly. I am not a mind reader. Do not expect Me to meet them if you do not communicate them. I will, by default do as _I_ need to do. And if that is to be gentle, kind, loving, you have agreed to that by submitting to Me.

There seems to be some confusion also, between discipline, and punishment. Discipline is action taken to correct an unwanted behavior, to correct a problem. If I can correct that problem with a word, or a look, I _have_ disciplined you. Do not equate punishment with discipline. I may punish you within the context of a scene, the strict Schoolmaster spanking the naughty student, the Prison Guard beating an unruly prisoner, the Sadist tormenting a victim... But I will discipline you within our relationship as befits the offense.

Do not act out trying to goad Me into sternness, into strictness, into punishing you. If you are doing so, you are topping from the bottom. You are being deceitful in that you are not communicating your needs to Me honestly, directly or clearly. You are not going to get sternness, you will get anger. You won't get strictness, nor punishment, you will get disappointment and displeasure. You will not get discipline, you will get dismissed.

Think on these words, and use of them what you will. The path of My heart is not the path of all others. As always, YMMV.

I really like this. I don't understand why so many people equate being Dominant with being "mean" (for lack of a better word). Your essay brings to mind something that Master said to me once.

Something pretty bad happened to me about a month after Master collared me. To make a long story short, I came out of the experience with a second-degree burn on my inner thigh and a bruised kidney because some assholes don't understand that no means no. (And I never consented to anything in that situation, I might add.) Anyway, the next time I saw Master, he held me close to him, kissed me, and said something to the effect of, "I don't have to cause you pain to dominate you. I hurt you because we enjoy it, not because I need it to control you. I could never hurt you again, and you'd still be mine."

Even though I knew that was the case, I still took his words to heart because it was what I needed to hear at the time. It reinforced in my mind the reason I serve him. I've posted more than once on this board that until I met him, I was a bottom. Now, I'm his slave. I serve him because I love him. That's just how it is with us.

 

[Netzach]

I guess I never found romantic love at odds with my concept of dominating someone, but it *is* at odds with my concept of owning a slave. *shrugs* it just doesn't fit and I don't see how I'm "missing" anything by doing what's effective for me and therefore appropriate for my property who needs to be owned and feel owned above all else. In fact, this is, as catalina brought up, in my case a more loving response than trying to create a context that just isn't and shouldn't be "there" to make the ownership somehow more picturesque or politically correct. It is what it is.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I guess I never found romantic love at odds with my concept of dominating someone, but it *is* at odds with my concept of owning a slave. *shrugs* it just doesn't fit and I don't see how I'm "missing" anything by doing what's effective for me and therefore appropriate for my property who needs to be owned and feel owned above all else. In fact, this is, as catalina brought up, in my case a more loving response than trying to create a context that just isn't and shouldn't be "there" to make the ownership somehow more picturesque or politically correct. It is what it is.

I feel that we each carve our place in the Lifestyle... and kudos to you for finding yours...

We all have our own interpratations of 'love' that we use and our own styles of living in this world. What works for Me is the deep love of being "in love" with My girl... but I don't think that makes yours or any others any less valid.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I feel that we each carve our place in the Lifestyle... and kudos to you for finding yours...

We all have our own interpratations of 'love' that we use and our own styles of living in this world. What works for Me is the deep love of being "in love" with My girl... but I don't think that makes yours or any others any less valid.

thogh we did not start out that way. we started out with just Him being my Mentor so to speak and teaching me the 'ways' of the lifestyle, training me to serve, and it obviously turned into alot more. and in the beginning i told Him i wasn't sure if i could do this type of relationship without the 'love' aspect in it. i just love the fact that i am His slave, lover, best friend, and soulmate all wrapped into one, it's awesome and i wouldn't be able to do it any other way. but what works for us doesn't work for everyone

 

[MasterPhoenix]

thogh we did not start out that way. we started out with just Him being my Mentor so to speak and teaching me the 'ways' of the lifestyle, training me to serve, and it obviously turned into alot more. and in the beginning i told Him i wasn't sure if i could do this type of relationship without the 'love' aspect in it. i just love the fact that i am His slave, lover, best friend, and soulmate all wrapped into one, it's awesome and i wouldn't be able to do it any other way. but what works for us doesn't work for everyone

So true... I was in a transition phase when I met her... (REALLY LONG STORY INVOLVING MULTIPLE STATES.) but as time grew on I couldn't help but fall for that lovely creature and we have built something awesome together.

 

[s_red830]

So true... I was in a transition phase when I met her... (REALLY LONG STORY INVOLVING MULTIPLE STATES.) but as time grew on I couldn't help but fall for that lovely creature and we have built something awesome together.

So sweet... good for you guys.

And kudos to you, too, Netzach... I bet not loving someone you own minimizes the paradoxes that you have to figure out, and that can often get tangled.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

So sweet... good for you guys.

And kudos to you, too, Netzach... I bet not loving someone you own minimizes the paradoxes that you have to figure out, and that can often get tangled.

Glad to meet someone on a similar wavelength as well.