Long distance D/s relationships

[Sweetwood]

I have reviewed many of the posts on this forum, but particularly the "all you wanted to know" thread and the "D/s and domestic violence" thread.

My first reaction is to ask: Do any one of you ever re read the threads later, some time after you have been there involved in the discussion? While I have explored the world of D/s myself to a somewhat extensive degree, and am very aware of the issues, what I have read here gives me lots of pause. Much of what I have read vaccilates between the extremely naive and the outright psychologically dangerous.

How does any one of you know, that the "beloved Master" is not a low level accountant of a pharmacy chain, with pocket protectors sitting behind his office desk in Boise, Idaho, married, getting kicks and giggles, fucking with your minds? This is particularly pertinent, when the Master resorts to "inexpensive" phonecards (they cannot be traced to the number they have been used from and therefore will not be found out by his wife. Because, God forbid, the daily dabblings might jeopardize the marriage and security he feels). Or, not talking on the phone at all, in the name of this being part of the training. Or, the list goes on.

I believe that one must be very, very cautious, with people who have a problem being seen, heard at any time, met and who are unwilling to realize the problem of developing this kind of relationship over the internet, long distance.

I regret to say, that some of the posts suggest that there is a very irresponsible person on the other end playing with your emotions, needs, desires and unfortunately, your illusions.

And as for wicked eve. I will send you a private message.

Enough said

Sweetwood

 

[Ebonyfire]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you have issues directed to specific people in this forum, perhaps you should take the time to PM them. That would be more productive than making blanket statements about people you know nothing about.


Ebonyfire

 

[WickedEve]

Sweetwood

How does any one of you know, that the "beloved Master" is not a low level accountant of a pharmacy chain, with pocket protectors sitting behind his office desk in Boise, Idaho, married, getting kicks and giggles, fucking with your minds? This is particularly pertinent, when the Master resorts to "inexpensive" phonecards (they cannot be traced to the number they have been used from and therefore will not be found out by his wife. Because, God forbid, the daily dabblings might jeopardize the marriage and security he feels). Or, not talking on the phone at all, in the name of this being part of the training. Or, the list goes on.

I'm fortunate enough to have done work for his company, and to have communicated with his co-workers. So I do know he is who he says he is.
The cheap phone cards are a last resort because long distance through MCI and AT&T was getting too expensive! And we have done a lot of talking in 2 1/2 years.
Also, we talked for nine months before we became involved in a D/s relationship. And it was my idea.

 

[morninggirl5]

As someone who uses "cheap" long distance phone cards quite frequently, the main reason most people use them is simply because they are cheap. I can talke almost daily for at least an hour with him and still not spend as much per month as i was before when we were talking once or twice a week.

As with ALL online relationships, you have to know who is on the other end of the conversation/phone. It takes time (at least for me) to build that level of trust. I know his full name, DOB, parent's names and one of their phone numbers, i've e-mailed at work, have those numbers, i have a pager number i'm allowed to use any time of the day (never have, but it's there). Because i've talked to him for a long time, i can trust what he's telling me. He hasn't lied yet, even on a couple of occasions that it would have hurt me less and kept the relationship where he wanted it if he had.

Relationships are relationships. Online D/s, just online relationships. There are people who will lie in RL relationships, too. In all of them, there has to be a building of trust and honesty to make it a relationship. Otherwise, you're acquaintances who talk (or whatever you do) online, on the phone, or in person.

 

[shysub]

long distance in general

I can understand why this thread was started. You just never know what is going on. That happened to me. I truly thought I knew who he was. I called his house rarely but I had the number. He would call me for nearly 2 hours about 5 days out of the week. I thought I had found the one. The way I found out he was lying is not important. That he wasn't who he said he was is.

THis is not the real reason I am posting. On-line, like any long distance can be difficult. What I am asking for is advice on how to keep it going. I am in a r/l relationship with a wonderful man/Master. I am starting to find the distance difficult though. We are 6 hours apart, not horrible, but frustrating at times, especially when plans get cancelled for work reasons. He owns his own business. Does anyone have any experience or words of wisdom for someone struggling?

 

[artful]

Re: long distance in general

I can understand why this thread was started. You just never know what is going on. That happened to me. I truly thought I knew who he was. I called his house rarely but I had the number. He would call me for nearly 2 hours about 5 days out of the week. I thought I had found the one. The way I found out he was lying is not important. That he wasn't who he said he was is.

THis is not the real reason I am posting. On-line, like any long distance can be difficult. What I am asking for is advice on how to keep it going. I am in a r/l relationship with a wonderful man/Master. I am starting to find the distance difficult though. We are 6 hours apart, not horrible, but frustrating at times, especially when plans get cancelled for work reasons. He owns his own business. Does anyone have any experience or words of wisdom for someone struggling?

I would suggest for you to PM WickedEve, Morninggirl 5, and/or others that have successfully done what you are asking help for in your struggle. As I have posted elsewhere,...Long Distance relationships are THE toughest of all to maintain,...whether BDSM or not. There are a lot of good folks who do Long Distance relationships.
Many servicemen, servicewomen in the armed forces, business executives that travel a lot, etc., etc., etc.~~~~Hope that helps you some!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Really folks...

Are we not all adults here? I would hope that most of the people here have
A) common sense, and
B) some sense of self-preservation.

Like most things, (and this topic has been debated on every forum Lit has) LET THE BUYER BEWARE! Use your sense folks.

Remember, you are more likely to have a drug slipped into your drink at the neighborhood bar, than having your psyche ruined online.

Online all you have to do is use "log off" and turn the machine off.

Ebony

 

[shysub]

Thank You Artful

You have been very kind and helpful. It is always good to know I can come to this forum and find answers that help.

 

[bluemouse]

shysub....

hey there...i have the same struggles...and i'd love to chat sometime....let me know if you want to email =)

 

[shysub]

bluemouse

Thank you. I would like to e-mail. My address is in my profile or pm me anytime please. I hope to hear from you.

 

[lovetoread]

Doing it long distance doesnt make it any less real.

How do I know?

I have done it.

He could have been anything in the world,but when you get down to the nitty gritty,you dont know for sure who anyone in this world really is.

Now he is the one I am with in R/L.

Being face to face doesnt make the time before we were together any less real.

 

[Sweetwood]

Thank you

Thank you lovetoread:

You just made my point.

Sweetwood

 

[MissTaken]

Common sense and caution.

Learning to recognize cues and contradictions that indicate that your long distance friend isn't who they are.

Wicked Eve is very fortunate in that she has had the ability to know who he is vis a vis others who know him. That is definitely a plus.

When considering long distance relationships that start on line, I have asked to speak to friends or family via e mail or phone.

Whether D/s or not, there are many people out there who are "posing." They are not who they want you to think they are.

If you have concerns about how he /she interacts with you on line, in a safe and focussed environment, that is another red flag to consider.

It can be done.

As for me, as I have posted over and again, a relationship doesn't truly progress until one shares space, environment and if the chemistry is there, touch.

Some have been fortunate and at times, I envy their openess of mind...such as LTR and Wicked Eve. They have certainly been able to make some good choices and be safe and happy.


In terms of D/s, I may do a bit of role playing on the phone just for kicks with a special Domly type friend, but no, to be my Dom and I, his sub, we have to meet.

This is just my opinion and it digresses from many. (LTR and I have shared this conversation on many occasions! )

And in terms of my comments, they are absolutely not directed at anyone in particular.

 

[DRxBlue]

This is just about LDRs

i can see the dangers inherent in LD D/s relationships, especially because of the "power transfer" aspects. But the subject of Long Distance Love is one that i recently, for the first time, have come to understand.

My interest in RL relationships dwindled to nothing many years ago, because my mind always craved "engagement" in a way that real life seems to ignore.

Very recently, i met someone online with whom i have developed a true "mind to mind" love, which has satisfied my needs in ways that none of my other relationships have ever approached.

In telling a dear friend about this new love, she pointed out that this sort of thing has gone on for centuries. Since the advent of mail service there have been"pen pal lovers" who have never met, yet play an essential role in each other's lives. Sometimes these relationships couldn't even work if it weren't for the distance between the lovers, but when it works it's just beautiful.

Love and relationships are always dangerous. You have to put your heart and feelings up as the ante, or you can't even play --let alone win. Though intangible, LDRs are real and risky, and impossible to judge from the outside. Only the players can decide what they are willing to risk and what they have gained.

Just observations from one who would not have believed, if i hadn't seen it with my own heart.

(edited to get rid of excess "white space")

 

[cymbidia]

When considering long distance relationships that start on line, I have asked to speak to friends or family via e mail or phone.
<snip>
As for me, as I have posted over and again, a relationship doesn't truly progress until one shares space, environment and if the chemistry is there, touch.

Much to my astonishment, i, too, have a LDR going. I'm almost a bit disappointed in myself for allowing it to happen to me again after i'd sworn off them forever, but, well, such is life.

In my case, however, my friend is a very prominent member of his community. He's got a web page, and not one of the personal ones anyone can toss up on MSN or a similar place, but one that incorporates him into his public life in his small town. I've been to his website. He's sent me other pics, pics of him as we spoke, pretty much, and the pics match. The phone number i call to speak with him is the same phone number that's on his website. And his buisness is one in which if *i* were indiscreet, he would be damaged professionally. He's trusted me with an enormous amount, particularly since i'm going to see him in two weeks and i told him that i had to have safe calls for that event in place. He agreed immediately - and now there are two others who know who he is, too, and could damage him if they were indiscreet.

I am *certain* my partner is who he claims to be.

Like MissT, however wild the heat is between us, though, i cannot take the last step of suspending belief until we can touch, he and i. There's something cementing about touch, something that allows me to cross the last bit of space between us with assurances of a solid reality on the other side.

I hoped to never again be involved in a LDR, quite frankly, after i went for most of my last year with MS doing it. That was different of course; we'd spent the first year+ in almost everyday skin-to-skin reach. The last year was the LDR one and it *sucked*. I never wanted another LDR.

I'm no good at chastity. No matter what you say, no matter how emotional your protestations to the contrary, in a monogamous LDR, one is chaste. Phone sex is not the same thing as skin-to-skin sex. It's not as good. It's not as fun. It's not as anything.

All this to say that i hate LDR's for all that i'm in one - and i stay in it by choice, too. But we're meeting. In 14 days i'm flying to his home and we'll spend 5 days together. He's already making plans to come here for more days, after my visit there. It'll still be a LDR, but one in which the airlines, at least, are profiting - along with us, of course.

 

[Sweetwood]

I am so happy

I am very happy with the results of this thread. It has spawned a very good discussion that has gone right to the heart of the matter.

Thanks to all posters, I would be delighted to have this discussion carry on for a while.

I am wondering, how one can discreetly get references about people before meeting them in R/L or even over the phone. I have always found it very encouraging when I would have their worknumber for instance.

Sweetwood

 

[Hecate]

Why be discreet?

After all for most of us meeting someone IRL means we are

a) placing our valuable reputation in their hands for letting them know us and our kinks (will be most likely a devastating thing profesionally for many of us if we were "outed")

b) we intend to let them render us helpless victims to their ministrations in a very direct and physical sense or place the means to sue us for abuse in a not funny way in their hands (or on their bodys to be more precise).

So how are we feeling about getting a copy of a drivers licebnse (or any other official picture ID) and a copy of the last phone bill, including the phone no. it ewas for and the name and address on top?

Before you tell me those can be "faked" - if someone has enough criminal energy to go there, even having a "work phone" number won't be very reliable imho.

 

[WickedEve]

cymbidia

"Like MissT, however wild the heat is between us, though, i cannot take the last step of suspending belief until we can touch, he and i. There's something cementing about touch, something that allows me to cross the last bit of space between us with assurances of a solid reality on the other side."

I can understand your feelings, though I don't feel that way about my relationship. Maybe after 2 1/2 years it's easier to believe. lol Or perhaps, it's just the kind of person I am and the way I perceive things.

"Phone sex is not the same thing as skin-to-skin sex. It's not as good. It's not as fun. It's not as anything."

Phone sex is phone sex -- another way to enjoy intimacy. Should you compare it with other forms of sexual expression? It's like saying anal is better than oral. That's an opinion, not a fact.

"All this to say that i hate LDR's for all that i'm in one - and i stay in it by choice, too. But we're meeting."

Do you say this to justify your LDR to yourself? (Not being catty. I'm really interested.)

Cymbidia, I truly wish you the best, and I hope it's as good in person.

 

[MissTaken]

References?

Having their work number, even if you never intend to use it is reassuring as well as a great indicator or trust between the parties.

Copies of driver's licenses are helpful, or even just the id number as you can do a criminal record check.

Asking who you may speak with for references can be telling.

Anytime you ask for something that is personal or seemingly invasive, watch for cures.

Having no one that you can contact would certainly show that you either are not trusted or the potential partner can't be trusted.

If they balk at anything having to do with securing your safety, this is the wrong person for you. A good partner will understand the need for safety.

If you are a sub and don't feel comfortable asking for information, references etc in a matter of fact tone, then , you aren't ready to meet.

I do enjoy meeting potential partners on line. We get all that "getting to know" stuff out of the way and the meeting is fundamentally a test to see how much potential there is for the relationship. You will know within the first five minutes if the chemistry is there. My first five minute rule has never been wrong! Enjoy! All things happen for a reason.

 

[cymbidia]

Phone sex is phone sex -- another way to enjoy intimacy. Should you compare it with other forms of sexual expression? It's like saying anal is better than oral. That's an opinion, not a fact.

Yes, it's an opinion.

It's my opinion that the best BDSM phone sex can't compare to even moderately erotic BDSM skin-to-skin sex. I should have made that clearer in my original post. Thank you for asking me about it.

"All this to say that i hate LDR's for all that i'm in one - and i stay in it by choice, too. But we're meeting."

Do you say this to justify your LDR to yourself? (Not being catty. I'm really interested.)

Yes, oh yes. I did indeed say it to justify my LDR - to myself.

WE, you weren't around last year to watch the long slow slide of my last important BDSM relationship, one that went for almost three years, move from something of daily-life value into an LDR, and then end abruptly, in a particularly ugly way. Others here watched all unfold (he used to post here on occasion, too, and some here got to know him a bit). Others here helped pick me up, patch me up, and held me while i cried (endlessly, it felt) after the bomb went off in my life. I cannot shake the notion that the LDR aspect of our previously skin-to-skin collared BDSM relationship (and if you know me even a little tiny bit, you must know i would not toss the word "collared" around lightly) is partly to blame for the stresses that eventually precipitated the incredibly painful end of what was between him and me.

In part, emotionally, i equate LDR's and my personal pain, my loss, and my frustration at my inability to see into his eyes and talk to him and work with him to find a way around the disasterous ending that eventually broke me into tiny pieces - pieces that i'm still trying to put back together again, six months after the fact.

I've been in BDSM relationships for 30 years. I've had my share of play partners. I've had a period or two when i played wildly with all comers. For a very long time, though, i've had only long term, relatively monogamous (within the needs of our relationship), emotionally-based BDSM relstionships - one at a time. In all that time, i've only been involved in two D/s LDR's wherein i was sub to one who was far away.

The first was intense, relatively short-lived, and allowed me a chance to learn that i have needs which cannot be met in a LDR. The second was one i spoke of above. It was not a 'by-choice' LDR. He had to move. I couldn't move. So it was. And it ended very badly.

Now there's this one. I cannot help but hold back somewhat until and unless we actually touch each other. Even then, i will likely have problems if it looks like it'll become a long term thing. I'm not good with celibacy. I crave and need the deep release of hard play, the incredible intimacy of passionate kisses that go on and on and on, and the sublime pleasure of simple, human lovemaking. One cannot have that, ever, in an LDR until and unless in-person visit are made.

For me, WE, for me, LDR's are only a prelude to the reality that lies beyond the words on a screen, the voice on the phone. I cannot go forever without the tracing of fingertips on my breast as i wake or the sound of my partner calling to me from another room to ask where the Sunday paper is.

I thank you for giving me the chance to explain how it is for me with regard to LDR's, WE, and not deciding i was just running them all down. I am not. I would not.

It's a thing of soft wonder to see the obvious contententment with which you've built your relationship, and the fulfillment and joy you derive from it. I'm certain that such tender emotions will continue to grow and bloom between you and your partner for as long as you both wish it so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MissT?
Damn good post!

 

[Sweetwood]

drivers licenses and sundry identifications

There are two issues here.

One is the trust issue regarding L/D relationships when after some time either one of the partners do not wish to emerge from behind their online facade. This is what I initially wanted to address at the top.

The other is how to check out someone you want to meet in person. If the person is in reacheable distance, you just meet in a public place like a cafe. If however, as I have experienced in my North American internet induced wanderings, you travel, oh say, 3500 miles by several planes and other means of transportation, to meet someone you feel very strongly about, then it is mandatory to do serious check ups. Such as knowing where they work, phoning them there several times and be referred to them through operators etc. Residential addresses, home phone numbers with reverse white pages check and finding their name is really John Doe helps much to secure.

If after all of this it turns out you fell for a sociopath, well he/she could have kidnapped you from your home too. So I think that caution and security concommitant with the occassion is good.

Sweetwood

 

[WickedEve]

Now there's this one. I cannot help but hold back somewhat until and unless we actually touch each other. Even then, i will likely have problems if it looks like it'll become a long term thing. I'm not good with celibacy. I crave and need the deep release of hard play, the incredible intimacy of passionate kisses that go on and on and on, and the sublime pleasure of simple, human lovemaking. One cannot have that, ever, in an LDR until and unless in-person visit are made.

For me, WE, for me, LDR's are only a prelude to the reality that lies beyond the words on a screen, the voice on the phone. I cannot go forever without the tracing of fingertips on my breast as i wake or the sound of my partner calling to me from another room to ask where the Sunday paper is.

Well, you make all that touching sound "Mmmm" good! lol I guess, since I get sex in r/l, and I get my mind fucked in my LDR, I'm a happy girl (in some ways.) Of course, if a person is in a monogamous LDR, then I can see him/her needing more. If I wasn't in my current situation, I'd want to be with L/D man.

We're all in different kinds of situations, with different experiences, and what might be a "Oh God, Yes!" for one, may be a "This sucks" for another.

ohhh yes,
Wicked Eve

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: drivers licenses and sundry identifications

There are two issues here.

One is the trust issue regarding L/D relationships when after some time either one of the partners do not wish to emerge from behind their online facade. This is what I initially wanted to address at the top.

The other is how to check out someone you want to meet in person. If the person is in reacheable distance, you just meet in a public place like a cafe. If however, as I have experienced in my North American internet induced wanderings, you travel, oh say, 3500 miles by several planes and other means of transportation, to meet someone you feel very strongly about, then it is mandatory to do serious check ups. Such as knowing where they work, phoning them there several times and be referred to them through operators etc. Residential addresses, home phone numbers with reverse white pages check and finding their name is really John Doe helps much to secure.

If after all of this it turns out you fell for a sociopath, well he/she could have kidnapped you from your home too. So I think that caution and security concommitant with the occassion is good.

Sweetwood

True, but statistically speaking that guy (or gal ) who is dressed in designer clothing, who you meet at the popular pick up joint, is more apt to slip a date rape drug into your drink and take your drugged ass somewhere and do you harm. A & E that a show about how the police just arrested a guy not too long ago who had raped 31 women who he picke d up at a bar.
Everyone knew this guy.

Does anyone remember the movie Looking for Mr. Goodbar?

The fact of the matter is that most women are attacked by people they know rather than Mr. cyber stalker. Yes, you must be careful. But be careful on general principles. Take precautions, online and offline.

Ebony

 

[MissTaken]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MissT?
Damn good post!

*blushing*
Thanks, cym! That is high and cherished praise coming from you.



I have been around this block once or twice.

As far as after the grand meeting, maintaining a long distance relationship is very difficult for me. I am a high maintenance sub. I need that daily contact.
I crave the touch and feeling of Dominance.

And what has happened is this. AFter having met a Dom, all of the little things we did previously to get through the long days and nights, no longer seem to work. I become cranky, impatient and eventually a messenger of gloom and doom.

This is a personal thing.
My own baggage or issue.
Just thought I would share.

 

[shysub]

Thanks MissTaken

It was good to hear your voice of reality. It seems that the longer my Master and I are together, the crankier I get. We have moved to r/l but can not be together all the time because we are 6 hours apart. I just want to be with Him all the time and feel Him next to me, but we can't. I am a little nervous that my behavior with drive Him away before we can make it more permanant. I know I need more patience, but that was never a strong area for me.