Liberals are Pro Choice?

[pornstarwannabe]

Liberals love to spew from the rooftops how proud they are to be pro choice. But are they?

Example 1: Low income family can only afford to live in a an area with a failing school system. Parents want the choice to send their kids to a better school via a voucher system, but are denied the opportunity by Liberals in Congress. So their kids are stuck and will probably drop out of high school.

I have more, but please add to the list. This is a collaboration thread.

 

[Sean Renaud]

What's that got to do with abort. . .oh. . . you think that schools are the same as children and don't understand why being pro-choice in one doesn't require you be pro-choice on the other if for no other reason than all that does is make the people who do have to use those schools have even worse schools.

 

[RobDownSouth]

With regard to education, people have plenty of choices as to how to educate their children:

• They can send their children to public school, free of charge
• They can send their children to private school, if they are willing to pay for it
• They can homeskool their children

In no instance is there an option to DENY your children an education.

The school choice/abortion choice comparison by Pornstarwannabee is simply weapons-grade derp.

 

[imalickin]

Liberals love to spew from the rooftops how proud they are to be pro choice. But are they?

Example 1: Low income family can only afford to live in a an area with a failing school system. Parents want the choice to send their kids to a better school via a voucher system, but are denied the opportunity by Liberals in Congress. So their kids are stuck and will probably drop out of high school.

I have more, but please add to the list. This is a collaboration thread.

The reason they do that is because they want those children to grow up to be dependent on government for their existence, and to grow up as Democrat voters.

Just because an asshole is pro-choice, doesn't mean they are pro-your-choice. They are the ones that want the choice. They sure as hell don't want you to have the choice.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Pro Choice, It Keeps The Shit Off The Streets.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Liberalism: Guns for me, but not for thee...

 

[mercury14]

Conservatives aren't pro-life. They're pro-government killing of criminals and pro-denying mamograms to at-risk women who can't afford insurance. And they want to roll back EPA regulations that keep coal plants from pouring lethal mercury and other toxins into the food supply.

See how that works?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Liberals love to spew from the rooftops how proud they are to be pro choice. But are they?

Example 1: Low income family can only afford to live in a an area with a failing school system. Parents want the choice to send their kids to a better school via a voucher system, but are denied the opportunity by Liberals in Congress. So their kids are stuck and will probably drop out of high school.

I have more, but please add to the list. This is a collaboration thread.

You just keep proving that you're a fucking moron.

When someone says that they are "Pro-choice", they are talking about a woman's right to choose what happens to her body, specifically with regards to pregnancy/abortions.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

The reason they do that is because they want those children to grow up to be dependent on government for their existence, and to grow up as Democrat voters.

Just because an asshole is pro-choice, doesn't mean they are pro-your-choice. They are the ones that want the choice. They sure as hell don't want you to have the choice.

Taking a shot at "biggest moron" title from PSW?

 

[miles]

Conservatives aren't pro-life. They're pro-government killing of criminals and pro-denying mamograms to at-risk women who can't afford insurance. And they want to roll back EPA regulations that keep coal plants from pouring lethal mercury and other toxins into the food supply.

See how that works?

What a stupid thing to say.

 

[Liar]

What a stupid thing to say.

Indeed, just like the OP.

 

[mercury14]

What a stupid thing to say.

I'm illustrating the stupidity of....

*facepalm*

Never mind.

 

[Sean Renaud]

What a stupid thing to say.

I just want to feel like part of the club!

 

[Adre]

What a stupid thing to say.

And who ^^^^^ would know better.

 

[oxphocker]

I've been working in education for over ten years now and I've got a masters in educational administration. The past three years I've been working in a low income/high minority school, before that I was working at a private school, before that a suburban high school, a school in New Zealand, and another on the south side of Chicago. All-in-all I've seen pretty much every form of school except for parochial.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that school choice/vouchers is bullshit. Instead of actually reforming and improving the existing school system, people are throwing up their hands and saying that the people who care enough to get vouchers should move while leaving the schools behind to decay even further. It's not going to improve education, it's only going to create a two-tiered system that will exacerbate the existing problem.

What we really need to do in the educational field is change the way we hold parents and students accountable for issues such as: bad attendance, abusive parenting, and thinking that schools are an entitlement. Right now all the focus keeps being placed on teachers who in reality can only do so much in comparison to many of the other factors going on, but NOTHING is being done to hold parents or students accountable for their actions. The diciplinary system is too paperwork intensive putting the burden of proof on the teachers to document bad behavior sooo many times that it borders insane. And still, students are kept in the schools despite constant disruptions and are pushed a head in grades despite failing classes to the point that we have high school students with less than a middle school level of abilities. But because parents would raise a stink about someone 16 yrs old still in elementary school for not learning how to read...the districts won't pursue it. If you want to look at the failing of the school system you need only look into a mirror.

Vouchers won't fix that problem. It goes much deeper than that, it will require an entire cultural shift in the way we look at schools and a willingness to hold people accountable.

 

[pornstarwannabe]

Amazing. Some of you got my point, and others missed it. Liberals are so high an mighty when it comes to a woman's right to choose to have an abortion. But when it comes to other choices, Liberals are against them.

The "choice" in school was an example I selected for a reason. The worst of the schools are in the poorest neighborhoods (generally speaking). Minorities are disproportionately impacted.

Some of you raised other examples that were clearly off-topic. Feel that strongly about your example? Create a separate thread. Otherwise, put your big boy ants on and address why Liberals are so against "choices."

Oh, and I got a kick out of RDS' post that really caused me to laugh out loud in astonishment. Misses the point entirely.

Quote
They can send their children to public school, free of charge
They can send their children to private school, if they are willing to pay for it
They can homeskool their children


a. Uh, those parents are doing that today. Stuck in poor neighborhoods and stuck with a failing school system, But you are right, their kids get a failing education system for FREE.
b. If those parents he referred to could send their their kids to private school, then they would not be trapped in a failing school system to begin with. They'd be living in nicer neighborhoods with more tax dollars going to the school system.
c. Yes, that's right. Parents living in these neighborhoods make enough to not work so they can school home school their kids. Riiiiight.

 

[pornstarwannabe]

You just keep proving that you're a fucking moron.

When someone says that they are "Pro-choice", they are talking about a woman's right to choose what happens to her body, specifically with regards to pregnancy/abortions.

See my post #16.

Your post was one I've seen before. You call someone a moron or a fucking idiot and they feel good about yourself. Such an intellect you have. I stand in awe of you (there was just a hint of sarcasm. Did you detect it?)

 

[pornstarwannabe]

I've been working in education for over ten years now and I've got a masters in educational administration. The past three years I've been working in a low income/high minority school, before that I was working at a private school, before that a suburban high school, a school in New Zealand, and another on the south side of Chicago. All-in-all I've seen pretty much every form of school except for parochial.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that school choice/vouchers is bullshit. Instead of actually reforming and improving the existing school system, people are throwing up their hands and saying that the people who care enough to get vouchers should move while leaving the schools behind to decay even further. It's not going to improve education, it's only going to create a two-tiered system that will exacerbate the existing problem.

What we really need to do in the educational field is change the way we hold parents and students accountable for issues such as: bad attendance, abusive parenting, and thinking that schools are an entitlement. Right now all the focus keeps being placed on teachers who in reality can only do so much in comparison to many of the other factors going on, but NOTHING is being done to hold parents or students accountable for their actions. The diciplinary system is too paperwork intensive putting the burden of proof on the teachers to document bad behavior sooo many times that it borders insane. And still, students are kept in the schools despite constant disruptions and are pushed a head in grades despite failing classes to the point that we have high school students with less than a middle school level of abilities. But because parents would raise a stink about someone 16 yrs old still in elementary school for not learning how to read...the districts won't pursue it. If you want to look at the failing of the school system you need only look into a mirror.

Vouchers won't fix that problem. It goes much deeper than that, it will require an entire cultural shift in the way we look at schools and a willingness to hold people accountable.

So you are not pro choice when it comes to the parents choosing a good school system over the failing one their kids are stuck in. Great.

Let's say you and I set up an experiment. In one neighborhood, you attempt to cause the cultural shift that you think needs to happen. In another neighborhood, we use a voucher system to get kids out of the failing school and into a better one. When the experiment is done, I know we will have helped the kids get a better education. And that school system left behind? It will decay and more kids will eventually leave it. In your neighborhood, kids will still be stuck because that cultural shift will NEVER happen.

 

[julybaby04]

I've been working in education for over ten years now and I've got a masters in educational administration. The past three years I've been working in a low income/high minority school, before that I was working at a private school, before that a suburban high school, a school in New Zealand, and another on the south side of Chicago. All-in-all I've seen pretty much every form of school except for parochial.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that school choice/vouchers is bullshit. Instead of actually reforming and improving the existing school system, people are throwing up their hands and saying that the people who care enough to get vouchers should move while leaving the schools behind to decay even further. It's not going to improve education, it's only going to create a two-tiered system that will exacerbate the existing problem.

What we really need to do in the educational field is change the way we hold parents and students accountable for issues such as: bad attendance, abusive parenting, and thinking that schools are an entitlement. Right now all the focus keeps being placed on teachers who in reality can only do so much in comparison to many of the other factors going on, but NOTHING is being done to hold parents or students accountable for their actions. The diciplinary system is too paperwork intensive putting the burden of proof on the teachers to document bad behavior sooo many times that it borders insane. And still, students are kept in the schools despite constant disruptions and are pushed a head in grades despite failing classes to the point that we have high school students with less than a middle school level of abilities. But because parents would raise a stink about someone 16 yrs old still in elementary school for not learning how to read...the districts won't pursue it. If you want to look at the failing of the school system you need only look into a mirror.

Vouchers won't fix that problem. It goes much deeper than that, it will require an entire cultural shift in the way we look at schools and a willingness to hold people accountable.

The only problem with this is that one cannot force a parent (or student) to "care". If there is a lack of parental involvement, that is parents who do not care. If there are discipline issues in school, that is a child who doesn't care. There is no governing body that can mandate a person's own self determination and drive.

With one of those, it is possible to overcome the other. When both are present, it will not make any difference how much money is thrown at the school systems.....they will continue to decay.

Vouchers could work....at least for those who either have a parent caring, or a student caring. Yes, those schools in decay would continue to decay, but they are decaying anyway. Why not give parents who do care, the option to give their child the chance to care as well.

.....doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Insanity.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So you are not pro choice when it comes to the parents choosing a good school system over the failing one their kids are stuck in. Great.

Your analogy is flawed.

A better analogy would be vouchers as the equivalent of taxpayer-funded abortions. In both cases the government is directly funding your "choice".

If you're for government provided vouchers, it would seem you'd be in favor of government provided abortions, right?

 

[pornstarwannabe]

Your analogy is flawed.

A better analogy would be vouchers as the equivalent of taxpayer-funded abortions. In both cases the government is directly funding your "choice".

If you're for government provided vouchers, it would seem you'd be in favor of government provided abortions, right?

The voucher is in the amount required to fund that student's education, per year. The money has already been collected. Per the voucher proposal, the gov't is just letting the student take that money and apply it at a different school. In D.C, that's more than $10K per student per year.

Abortions, as far as I've been told by the media, are not paid for by the tax payer, and there have been no tax payer money set aside for abortions. So your analogy is flawed, IMO.

 

[imalickin]

Taking a shot at "biggest moron" title from PSW?

I heard from reliable sources that you have that title all sewn up.

 

[AvgGuy01]

.....

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Liberals love to spew from the rooftops how proud they are to be pro choice. But are they?

Example 1: Low income family can only afford to live in a an area with a failing school system. Parents want the choice to send their kids to a better school via a voucher system, but are denied the opportunity by Liberals in Congress. So their kids are stuck and will probably drop out of high school.

I have more, but please add to the list. This is a collaboration thread.

You do understand that with the voucher system you have envisioned in your mind, the kid in the poor neighborhood will still attend the same failing school, but the school will have fewer resources to deal with the child, right?

 

[badbabysitter]

PSW must be moving the goal posts in his arguement in honour of the Superbowl