Levels of Submission

[SweetErika]

http://www.albanypowerexchange.com/Lifestyle/sub_frenzies.htm
here is a good site for you on sub frenzy

What a great article! I've been noticing the behaviors described in it from the potential subs I've been meeting, and didn't have a good grasp of what was going on with them until now. Fortunately, it looks like I've been doing many things right so far just out of intuition and my own needs and beliefs, but there are definitely some areas I can improve in. Thank you so much for posting it, rose!

APEX is a site I've seen referenced and have been meaning to check out, too, so this is a very timely thread indeed!

 

[CutieMouse]

I've dealt with this issue, it does come up with those of inherently submissive orientation. You are a slave? You are certain of it? Then I shall point out the job description:

It's not about you.

He's too tired to dominate you, dammit? He doesn't order you to do the things you'd like him to order you to do in fantasy? If you're a slave that is a giant neon "tough" in lights. Your concern is

1. am I useful
2. am I obedient
3. am I in the way?

If I am dealing with too much of this kind of "may I be forced to lick your floors please" I push back hard. I will often tell H to go masturbate, and come back when he's ready to pay some attention to what I say.

May I say Net, posts like this are the ones that make me think if I weren't so damned straight, and didn't live in the middle of Southeastern America Hell, I would adore bottoming to you.

 

[Netzach]

May I say Net, posts like this are the ones that make me think if I weren't so damned straight, and didn't live in the middle of Southeastern America Hell, I would adore bottoming to you.

Poopy on no. 2

I could just have you model all that vintage stuff? Maybe throw my boy at you for your delectation too...

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i do agree with what you said cutiemouse, and that is why i sent the link on sub frenzy. when she described her feelings on this thread the very words that popped out at me were 'sub frenzy' and i even believe i said this CAN be very unhealthy and down right harmful. but it may also just be the newness of finding that 'One' and finding your place in this lifestyle, does that make sense? i do think she needs to be careful and a little more guarded starting out, but unfortunately with sub frenzy (the way i understand it anyway) you're not able to do that, again is why i sent the link in hopes she would read through it and maybe see some of herself in it. anyway, that's my two cents

 

[lil_slave_rose]

What a great article! I've been noticing the behaviors described in it from the potential subs I've been meeting, and didn't have a good grasp of what was going on with them until now. Fortunately, it looks like I've been doing many things right so far just out of intuition and my own needs and beliefs, but there are definitely some areas I can improve in. Thank you so much for posting it, rose!

APEX is a site I've seen referenced and have been meaning to check out, too, so this is a very timely thread indeed!

You're very welcome! chalk it up to Master making me do alot of 'research' before entering this lifestyle with Him 3 years ago and i still have all the sites in my favorites *grins*

 

[incubus'_sub]

Please learn to read what people actually write & don't skew their meaning or their intention.

Offended, no, bored, yes. You are not the first & certainly won't be the last newbies who are so excited by it all that they have to share every last slap, tickle & pat. Sooner or later one of the older members gets tired of all the rabbiting on & makes the suggestion to use the Cafe, or talk to each other. It's common, it's normal, you are not being singled out or harrassed or picked apon.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Please learn to read what people actually write & don't skew their meaning or their intention.

Offended, no, bored, yes. You are not the first & certainly won't be the last newbies who are so excited by it all that they have to share every last slap, tickle & pat. Sooner or later one of the older members gets tired of all the rabbiting on & makes the suggestion to use the Cafe, or talk to each other. It's common, it's normal, you are not being singled out or harrassed or picked apon.

ok first of all i am not a newbie in that my relationship did not just start. we've been together for 3 years, so maybe it's you who needs to read what is posted and not twist things. and if you are bored by the way i speak to my Master on this forum then you have the choice of not reading it. i'm not one who is going to sit here and kiss the asses of the 'older members' simply because i'm a 'newbie poster' here. i have my own opinions, my own life, and if you don't like my posts, then i would suggest that you not read them, it's a choice we all have

 

[catalina_francisco]

Have any of you ever felt like there will be no satisfying your desire to submit?

i have been feeling this way these days. i don't feel like i will ever be satisfied. This might very well change once i do this in RL but even then, i still don't know. i am a slave. i can FEEL it. It is part of me. Even if i haven't done it in RL with a Dom, i have done it throughout my life in all areas of my life. i never knew what it was that i was doing though. i never knew what i was missing until now. i need more domination right NOW...that's for sure. i find myself begging Sir to dominate me more. i asked Him if i could kneel at the computer when i speak to Him. This hurts after a while and yet i still asked for it. i still need more though. i don't think i am topping from the bottom here. Maybe i am but i don't mean to. i don't think Sir is taking full advantage of my submissive nature. i know He isn't. This is for my protection which i will be forever grateful but i feel so unfulfilled and unsatisfied.

How submissive do you feel?
Do you ever feel like this? Have you ever?
Do you consider yourself a slave or a sub?
Does submission run through your veins as it does mine?

I think you need to sit down and take the time to wait before you assign yourself a level which may or may not pan out for real...most here do not like comparing and claiming levels of submission as it seems competitive and like people are placing themselves above others which is not what submission is about. You are still a virgin sexually (unless something has changed there), you have no RL BDSM experience, you have not met your cyber Master, you are reading everything - fictional and otherwise I suspect - which you can get your eyes on, and you wonder why you feel unsatisfied? It sounds like you are surrendering yourself to sub frenzy more so than submission.

Being submissive is about accepting what it is your Dominant wants of you. There are countless threads/posts from subs claiming they are frustrated because their Dom/me will not 'allow' them to submit in the way they want, to the level they want, and even being presumptious enough to claim they know better than the Dom/me what would be best for the Dom/me if only they would surrender and let the pyl show them!! What is missing IMHO in such statements is the reality that submission is about submitting, IOW doing as the Dom/me wants and needs, not as the submissive feels is good for them or themselves. If the PYL feels like tuning out and leaving you to amuse yourself for awhile, that is their right and part of the advantage in being a PYL. If they decide something is not good for you, or has not been earned, that also is part of their role. They are not there to amuse and entertain the submissive and keep them making happy puppy jumps of delight their submissive needs are being met according to the submissive's idea of what should be happening. If you do not feel you are being given enough to do, how are you going to handle being part of a relationship where you are not the one and only? That means the PYL has to divide their time between you and others....what are you going to do in those times when it is not your moment in the spotlight? Stamp your foot and demand more?

Does this mean you have no rights as a submisive? No, but it does mean you have to learn acceptance and domination, and if you really feel your needs are not being met sufficiently in an ongoing way, moving on to someone you feel can fulfil those needs in the way you see fit. As I have mentioned to you before, submission is not as glamourous or easy as you often seem to think. It is fucking hard work, often leaving you feeling you could give more, do more, would prefer a different order, like you have given all you can and are being asked for more, but the reality is, that is what you take on with submission, doing what suits another, not you....and for many of us, the fact our needs are not always directly met, that we are denied our heart's submissive desires, are asked for more when we have bent over backwards already, and not having some of our greatest deeds acknowledged, is exactly how we feel our submission most and find pleasure in the pain and anguish. It is not easy to understand until you have been there, but it is for me more real than if I felt satiated and satisfied in a direct and obvious way 24/7. And of course, part of being a good submissive or slave is awareness of how much responsibility and work a good PYL commits to and doing whatever you can to ease that burden, not making it clear you need more for yourself.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

Anyway, to get this puppy back on track....

Do you consider yourself a sub? a slave?
In what areas of your life do you submit?
How submissive are you?
Are you treated like a pet at home?
Are you treated like a slave?
Do you just have lots of rules?
What is your definition of YOUR submission?
What "level" are you at?

Kailey,

I would like to answer your questions from the other side of the coin.

I am a guy who is happy, relaxed, challenged, satisfied, aroused, and fulfilled by taking control in some aspects of a personal relationship. All I have ever sought was a woman who thinks like this:

I would willingly give my all to one person, should he ask me to, in any aspect of Life; otherwise, I go about my normal business.

What I have never sought is a woman who responds to me with the lifestyle equivalent of: "Oh, thanks for this bracelet. I'm glad you think it will be pretty around my wrist, but.... did you see the one that Tom gave Katie?"

That's not submission in my book. That's one-upmanship.

In other words,

Being submissive is about accepting what it is your Dominant wants of you.

Exactly.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I'm not in the best of moods, so please do take my thoughts with a grain of salt...

{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}

*grins* Just because I want to give you one Cutie.

May I say Net, posts like this are the ones that make me think if I weren't so damned straight, and didn't live in the middle of Southeastern America Hell, I would adore bottoming to you.

You know... you don't have to be _sexually_ oriented that way to bottom (or Top) a member of the same gender. I'm straight as hell sexually, but I'm a sadistic bastard and will top males for a scene... *grins*

And living in South Carolina, I am very aware of what living in the SE is like and how hard it is to find, meet, and socialize with like minded folk. We ARE out here though...

And I'll extend the invite to meet at 1763 in Atlanta the weekend of January 6th. The girls and I are heading that way and hey... the more the merrier!

http://www.1763.net for more info on the facility and schedule...

 

[BiBunny]

The Southeast really is horrible for this kind of thing, isn't it? Small towns make it even worse.

 

[CutieMouse]

Thank you for the kind words, JM and EG. (and the hug)

True, one's orientation doesn't really impact one's ability to Top or bottom to another. Unfortunately, I've accepted that I'm wired in such a way, that bottoming outside of a strong, loving, committed (monogomus) relationship, does me more emotional damage, than good- hence the "so damned straight" comment to Net. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't *that* large of a challenge to find such a thing (even in the southeast); however I'm in a place these days where I don't feel up to expending the energy on searching, so I've quietly tucked that aspect of my persona away in its little trunk, and am quietly going about my business, until further notice.

It would be interesting to go to the Atlanta munch... I'd be the cute girl sitting in the corner (dressed in vintage), studiously taking notes during any lectures, and otherwise quietly observing (doing that delicate dance of being charming and distant at the same time), while I work on my knitting. *chuckles*

 

[Bandit58]

Anyway, to get this puppy back on track....

Do you consider yourself a sub? a slave?
In what areas of your life do you submit?
How submissive are you?
Are you treated like a pet at home?
Are you treated like a slave?
Do you just have lots of rules?
What is your definition of YOUR submission?
What "level" are you at?

I identify as a sub, however another dominant we know socially has said that he would consider me to be a slave.

I submit in and out of the bedroom. It has gradually evolved over the time we've been together (almost 3 years). Master has chronic ill health and I am His carer. I make His meals and see to His medications, clinic appointments and get Him to dialysis at the hospital 3 mornings a week.

I would say I am very submissive, and always have been however there are certain areas I feel very strongly that any pyl should keep some control over e.g. they should have access to money "just in case".

I am treated as a partner, His future wife and His lover not necessarily in that order We don't need lots of rules. I know what I have to do and I just do it In fact I jump too soon sometimes - when He goes to get something I beat Him to it!

My "level" of submission is the level He wants me to be at. I don't feel like I have to justify my relationship and compare it to others....though it has taken a while to realise that As long as He is happy with my service to Him then that is all that is important.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

Offended, no, bored, yes. You are not the first & certainly won't be the last newbies who are so excited by it all that they have to share every last slap, tickle & pat. Sooner or later one of the older members gets tired of all the rabbiting on & makes the suggestion to use the Cafe, or talk to each other. It's common, it's normal, you are not being singled out or harrassed or picked apon.

I’m very, very new to all of this, still asking questions and trying to figure things out. And since I don’t have any real, or for that matter online experience, I try not to voice my opinion on much, but I have to say I’ve enjoyed the interaction between Masterphoenix and lil_slave_rose. They obviously have a deep bond and, for me, that shows something to strive for. I’ve seen other posters that show deep devotion to their partners, but I haven’t seen a lot of their partners online to hear the give and take between them, even in the Café. So while it might be blasé to some and I wasn’t looking for it, I’ve counted it as part of my learning process here and it’s made me feel more relaxed and less intimidated by everything.

Now please don’t yell at me and I’m sorry if I stirred up a hornet’s nest. And that I continued o/t. It's just to me they're kind of like seeing a couple walking down the street that are so totally and obviously in love all you can do is smile and hope, if you don’t already have that in your life, that you will someday.

Rox.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I’m very, very new to all of this, still asking questions and trying to figure things out. And since I don’t have any real, or for that matter online experience, I try not to voice my opinion on much, but I have to say I’ve enjoyed the interaction between Masterphoenix and lil_slave_rose. They obviously have a deep bond and, for me, that shows something to strive for. I’ve seen other posters that show deep devotion to their partners, but I haven’t seen a lot of their partners online to hear the give and take between them, even in the Café. So while it might be blasé to some and I wasn’t looking for it, I’ve counted it as part of my learning process here and it’s made me feel more relaxed and less intimidated by everything.

Now please don’t yell at me and I’m sorry if I stirred up a hornet’s nest. And that I continued o/t. It's just to me they're kind of like seeing a couple walking down the street that are so totally and obviously in love all you can do is smile and hope, if you don’t already have that in your life, that you will someday.

Rox.

While incubus'_sub and I don't always agree, sometimes we do and this is one of those times. We began posting here as a couple (hence our joint user name), as many other couples have also both posted on the forum, including i_s and her own Dominant. Unfortunately, many of the Dom/me of the relationships, and sometimes the submissive as well, have over time left the forum or post very rarely and for some of those I know it is for this same reason as i_s has mentioned. I have tried (as have others) to entice F to post here again as he has a lot he could share, but he did try it and found he just didn't want to bother anymore due to the chitchat invading nearly every serious thread and a lot of roleplay and chatlike type posts/threads evolving.

During our time when we both posted, as with other couples (there have been a lot of them here...must be the water ), we would post according to our experience, our thoughts on the topic, not for chatting between the two of us. It was not unusual for us to post to the same thread, but those posts usually were about our individual views and experiences as well as those as a couple, but once again, was not about chatting and playing with each other on the forum. Even when it happened we were in different countries while posting, while we might both be on the board at the same time, we were also on IM so we could keep our chat off the board. Despite this, it seems many were more than aware of the depth of our bond, we just saved the personal chat and play for off the forum. We are all guilty of hijacking from time to time, but I think it is good to remember the Talk forum is for discussion of topics/issues more so than conducting lengthy personal interaction between friends and couples which is better suited to Cafe or privately.

Catalina

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I totally understand about some things being more appropriate to the café, it’s just their interaction was something I hadn’t experienced here before and, as I said, it made me smile and feel a little more relaxed about participating. It also showed me something maybe a little between the lightheartedness of the café and the question and answer of the talk forum. A bit of the give and take, supportiveness that can happen between a bdsm couple. Something that I hadn’t really thought of in my reading and asking questions.

But I really do agree with having the separate forums and see the need for them, so I guess it was just a matter of me having learned something from them.

Thanks for your thoughts on it all Catalina, I’ll keep it in mind in my postings.

Rox.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I totally understand about some things being more appropriate to the café, it’s just their interaction was something I hadn’t experienced here before and, as I said, it made me smile and feel a little more relaxed about participating. It also showed me something maybe a little between the lightheartedness of the café and the question and answer of the talk forum. A bit of the give and take, supportiveness that can happen between a bdsm couple. Something that I hadn’t really thought of in my reading and asking questions.

But I really do agree with having the separate forums and see the need for them, so I guess it was just a matter of me having learned something from them.

Thanks for your thoughts on it all Catalina, I’ll keep it in mind in my postings.

Rox.

'Tis OK...it takes a bit getting to know what is OK where, and even then I think we are all guilty of hijacking or getting off topic at some point. Love certainly can be part of the whole D/s relationship and was one thing I made clear I was looking for when I decided to get involved with someone in RL. I was not interested in submitting to a line of men in various relationships until I found the right one....I had enough of that in vanilla and just wanted to get on with the rest of my life in as close to non-destructive and positive a fashion as possible. I was fortunate he saw my ad and replied against all better judgement based on distance, and with the same reservations I decided to overlook and reply simply because I felt I couldn't ignore the tingle I got when I read his first email to me. We haven't looked back since and still have our friends and family amazed it has worked given we married 2 weeks after meeting and would have done so sooner if it had been legal without that waiting period.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

While incubus'_sub and I don't always agree, sometimes we do and this is one of those times. We began posting here as a couple (hence our joint user name), as many other couples have also both posted on the forum, including i_s and her own Dominant. Unfortunately, many of the Dom/me of the relationships, and sometimes the submissive as well, have over time left the forum or post very rarely and for some of those I know it is for this same reason as i_s has mentioned. I have tried (as have others) to entice F to post here again as he has a lot he could share, but he did try it and found he just didn't want to bother anymore due to the chitchat invading nearly every serious thread and a lot of roleplay and chatlike type posts/threads evolving.

During our time when we both posted, as with other couples (there have been a lot of them here...must be the water ), we would post according to our experience, our thoughts on the topic, not for chatting between the two of us. It was not unusual for us to post to the same thread, but those posts usually were about our individual views and experiences as well as those as a couple, but once again, was not about chatting and playing with each other on the forum. Even when it happened we were in different countries while posting, while we might both be on the board at the same time, we were also on IM so we could keep our chat off the board. Despite this, it seems many were more than aware of the depth of our bond, we just saved the personal chat and play for off the forum. We are all guilty of hijacking from time to time, but I think it is good to remember the Talk forum is for discussion of topics/issues more so than conducting lengthy personal interaction between friends and couples which is better suited to Cafe or privately.

Catalina

while i understand what you're saying Catalina and with all due respect, Master and have never 'role played' on this forum, nor have we hijacked any threads with our 'banter' and i've seen quite a few Dom's and sub's playing around on the forums (not only in the cafe') and NO ONE says anything to them. the comments Master said to me were in praise for a advise i had given. i understand if we want to 'chat' back and forth then it should be done in the cafe' but comments on each other's posts i'm not sure i understand what the problem is there. on this same thread ( i think) are 2 people 'flirting' in their posts..but that's ok? like i said..had we hijacked the thread i would understand alot better, but we didn't. He simply praised me for something i'd said. i've had MANY private messages from members all telling me they enjoy Master and i's posts and not to let anyone stop us from posting as it's not the majority that don't like it. i've had atleast 8 members PM me to tell me not to worry about it. so i know i've not done anything too terribly wrong. also, what would and does annoy me, are the posts like this. where someone is chastising someone else. THOSE are the ones that get old and 'boring'. my whole point is, we are all adults and we all have the choice to click next if we don't like something someone says...right??

 

[catalina_francisco]

while i understand what you're saying Catalina and with all due respect, Master and have never 'role played' on this forum, nor have we hijacked any threads with our 'banter' and i've seen quite a few Dom's and sub's playing around on the forums (not only in the cafe') and NO ONE says anything to them. the comments Master said to me were in praise for a advise i had given. i understand if we want to 'chat' back and forth then it should be done in the cafe' but comments on each other's posts i'm not sure i understand what the problem is there. on this same thread ( i think) are 2 people 'flirting' in their posts..but that's ok? like i said..had we hijacked the thread i would understand alot better, but we didn't. He simply praised me for something i'd said. i've had MANY private messages from members all telling me they enjoy Master and i's posts and not to let anyone stop us from posting as it's not the majority that don't like it. i've had atleast 8 members PM me to tell me not to worry about it. so i know i've not done anything too terribly wrong. also, what would and does annoy me, are the posts like this. where someone is chastising someone else. THOSE are the ones that get old and 'boring'. my whole point is, we are all adults and we all have the choice to click next if we don't like something someone says...right??

As a moderator I try not to get on anyone's case unless it seems to be bothering others and even then I don't always do it....why? Because if I did I would be at it all day every day some weeks and I do have a very busy life outside this forum and cop enough flack for the times I think it necessary to say something about what is happening here...as you pointed out, it happens often and from more than one of 2 people. Recently I was reading threads in Talk and came across one which was almost 2 pages (= 50 posts )of pure hijack at which point those trying to discuss the topic had given up trying....this is not rare. My post was in support of incubus'_sub's viewpoint and to discourage more of the chat like thing happening because it does disrupt threads too many times, and this is not singling you out but highlighting a forum problem which many here are used to being highlighted periodically. Everytime I post something about it I hear in my head a group groan of 'oh here she goes again' which does not make it easy, but is part of the responisibility I took on when I accepted being a mod.

If you know the history of the forum, it was just such incidents which brought about a splitting of the forum into 2 areas despite some of us not wanting it. In general there is a lot of tolerance for people greeting each other if they have not seen a particular person on the forum for some time, or if they say something which is appreciated etc., but these exchanges usually take place between and because the people in question are not personally involved and in touch on a daily basis. As I mentioned in my post, there have been times when I am in Oz and F is in Europe, or he is away on business and we have been on the forum at the same time, and yes, one of us has at times said to the other we liked (or sometimes didn't like) what they said on a thread, but in so doing didn't say it publicly in that thread and risk disruption but did it privately between each other in IM or on the phone.

While it is your choice to make such thoughts and feelings public, all I am doing is asking you and others to think how it impacts on others and can at times interrupt the flow of a discussion. Perhaps it is more appropriate if the comment is not so personally directed as if just between 2, but part of a further comment to the whole board where not only is the original comment supported in conversation, but perhaps also expanded on. We (and I includee me here) all are guilty of hijacking at some point (and to me hijacking is anything posted in a thread which is about personal greeting or exchanges, and/or not related to the original topic or topic being discussed), what I and some find difficult is when people know they are doing it and continue to do it and justify it as OK because they feel it is their right regardless of how others might experience it. It also has been mentioned by others from time to time that when such a thread goes to the library, it makes for very disjointed reading when someone reads the thread in relation to the topic they thought was being discussed and might not know who the people are exchanging personal comments and yet have pages of personal type discussion taking place.

As I also said in response to Rox commenting on why there are not more couples posting here, it is because of these issues many of the Dom/mes have decided to not bother posting anymore due to the hijacking and at times continuous mission to disrupt serious thread discussion until everyone gives up or loses track of the discussion. We have lost a lot of valueable input from the Dominant side of discussions that way, and a lot of couples sharing their relationship with others on the forum from both sides of the whip. We have been trying to encourage more input from Dom/mes over a period of time, but it is not easy when threads frequently go off in personal directions.

As to how many PM's you have in support, you have no idea how many PM's mods get complaining about hijacking and other behaviour on the forum, reprimanding us for our moderating techniques (which can be right with half, wrong with the other half). We are only human and as such have to respond in the way which seems correct in the moment, but may not to others, and soothe a lot of ruffled feathers at times. Overall we try to remain objective and I can assure you my previous post and this one is not personal but is highlighting as always a problem which frequently comes up and will continue to do so I am sure. You have not committed a major sin, it is just a problem associated with forums in general I think.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

but part of a further comment to the whole board where not only is the original comment supported in conversation, but perhaps also expanded on.

if you go back and look at HIs post to me about praising me for the advise i gave, He most certainly DID add to the comments and gave His personal advise on the TOPIC as well.....anyway, i do understand what you're saying, i just didn't see it that Him and i were hijacking any thread and i've certainly got enough PM's to show that it wasn't bothering the majority. anyway.....now that we HAVE hijacked the thread with all of this, i will stop and move on......

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I did not realize that My giving praise to My slave for giving out good advice was something that would unleash a tempest in a teapot that would hijack a valuable thread. As I told her that she gave good advice and I was proud of her, I also gave further caution to the starter of this thread.

I lookewd back and I posted three times in this thread previous to this post and only ONE of which was addressed to My slave, which was also addressed to kaliey. I also responded to something that kailey said, and I reponded to the original criticism from Incubus's sub. I am not sure where that became chatting or hijacking.

In fact, the thread was on point until the critisisms of the way that lil_slave_rose and I have posted. It is a damn shame that this thread has strayed from the original point of sub frenzy which is something that is not often talked about but important for submissives and the Doms who love them to know about.

I stumbled upon this board and thought that it looked like a great resource for us to learn, maybe teach a little, and make friends so I encouraged her to join. Sadly, we have faced a good deal of hostility from many long timers. Maybe this is just a new member hazing or something, if we can take it you will accept us. Maybe its that her and I are in a LD situation right now, and that seems to be unacceptable to many on here.

I do not know what it is, and frankly I don't particularly care why. I would just like all of this silliness behind us so that we can continue to use this board as the educational forum that is being trumpeted.

*steps off My soapbox*

 

[Stricturism]

Levels

Hello All. I am new to this forum. I saw the title of this thread and thought that the list I am posting below on "Levels" of submission may benefit some. It may be fun to ask what your Dom or sub thinks his or her level is and see how closely it reconciles with what you think it is. If anyone wants to chat please feel free to drop me a line. Have a great day.

Levels of submission:

1. The outright non-submissive masochist or kinky sensualist:
Not into servitude, humiliation or giving up of control; just pain
and/or spiced-up sensuality, on the masochist's own terms for the
masochist's own pleasure (ie: being turned on solely or mainly by
one's own bodily sensations, rather than being turned on by
being "used" to gratify one's partner's sadism).

2. Pseudo-submissive non-slave:
Not into even playing "slave", but into other "submissive" role-
playing, e.g.: schoolteacher scenes, infantilism, "forced"
transvestism. Usually into humiliation, but NOT into servitude, even
in play. Dictates the scene to a large degree.

3. Pseudo-submissive PLAY slave:
Likes to play at being slave. Likes to *feel* subservient; may in
some cases like to *feel* that one is being "used" to gratify one's
partner's sadism; and may even really serve the dominant in some
ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the scene to a
large degree; often fetishistic (e.g. foot worshippers).

4. True submissive non-slave:
Really gives up control (though only temporarily and within agreed
upon limits), but gets his/her main satisfaction from aspects of
submission *other than* serving or being used by the dominant.
Usually turned on by suspense, vulnerability, and/or giving up of
responsibility. Doesn't dictate the scene except in very general
terms, but still seeks mainly her/his own *direct* pleasure (rather
than getting one's pleasure mainly from pleasing the dominant).

5. True submissive PLAY slave:
Really gives up control (though only temporarily; only during
brief "scenes" and within limits) and gets his/her main satisfaction
from serving and being used by the dominant - but only for FUN
purposes, usually erotic. (May or may not be into pain, but if so,
is turned on by pain *indirectly*, ie: enjoys being the objects of
one's partner's sadism, on which the submissive places few
requirements or restrictions.)

6. Uncommitted short-term but more-than-play semi-slave:
Really gives up control (though usually within limits); wants to
serve and be used by the dominant; wants to provide practical/non-
erotic as well as fun/ erotic services; but only when the "slave" is
in the mood. May even act as a full-time slave for, say, several
days at a time, but is free to quit at any time (or at the end of
the agreed upon several days). May or may not have a long-term
relationship with one's Mistress/Master, but, either way,
the "slave" has the final say over when he or she will serve.

7. Part-time consensual but REAL slave:
Has ongoing commitment to an owner/slave relationship, and regards
oneself as the Mistress'/Master's "property" at all times. Wants to
obey and please her/him in all aspects of life - practical/non-
erotic as well as fun/erotic. Devotes most of one's time to other
commitments (eg: job) but the Mistress/Master has first pick of the
slave's free time.

8. Full-time live-in consensual slave:
Within no more than a few broad limits/requirements, the slave
regards herself/ himself as existing solely for the
Mistress'/Master's use, pleasure and well- being. The slave in turn
expects to be regarded as a prized possession. Not much different
from the situation of the traditional housewife, except that within
the S/M world the slave's position is more likely to be fully
consensual, especially if the slave is male (since men certainly
aren't socially pressured into this kind of lifestyle). Within the
S/M world, a full-time "slave" arrangement is entered into with an
explicit awareness of the magnitude of power that is being given up,
and hence is usually entered into much more carefully, with more
awareness of the possible dangers, and with much clearer and more
specific agreements than usually precede the traditional marriage.

9. Consensual total slave with no limits:
A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life
(except in authoritarian religious cults and other situations where
the "consent" is induced by brainwashing and/or social or economic
pressures, and hence isn't fully consensual). A few S/M purists will
insist that you aren't really a slave unless you're willing to do
absolutely *anything* for your Mistress/ Master, with no limits at
all. There are a few who claim to be no-limits slaves, but in all
cases it would be reasonable to doubt the claim.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello All. I am new to this forum. I saw the title of this thread and thought that the list I am posting below on "Levels" of submission may benefit some. It may be fun to ask what your Dom or sub thinks his or her level is and see how closely it reconciles with what you think it is. If anyoe wants to chat please feel free to drop me a line. Have a great day.

Levels of submission:

1. The outright non-submissive masochist or kinky sensualist:
Not into servitude, humiliation or giving up of control; just pain
and/or spiced-up sensuality, on the masochist's own terms for the
masochist's own pleasure (ie: being turned on solely or mainly by
one's own bodily sensations, rather than being turned on by
being "used" to gratify one's partner's sadism).

2. Pseudo-submissive non-slave:
Not into even playing "slave", but into other "submissive" role-
playing, e.g.: schoolteacher scenes, infantilism, "forced"
transvestism. Usually into humiliation, but NOT into servitude, even
in play. Dictates the scene to a large degree.

3. Pseudo-submissive PLAY slave:
Likes to play at being slave. Likes to *feel* subservient; may in
some cases like to *feel* that one is being "used" to gratify one's
partner's sadism; and may even really serve the dominant in some
ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the scene to a
large degree; often fetishistic (e.g. foot worshippers).

4. True submissive non-slave:
Really gives up control (though only temporarily and within agreed
upon limits), but gets his/her main satisfaction from aspects of
submission *other than* serving or being used by the dominant.
Usually turned on by suspense, vulnerability, and/or giving up of
responsibility. Doesn't dictate the scene except in very general
terms, but still seeks mainly her/his own *direct* pleasure (rather
than getting one's pleasure mainly from pleasing the dominant).

5. True submissive PLAY slave:
Really gives up control (though only temporarily; only during
brief "scenes" and within limits) and gets his/her main satisfaction
from serving and being used by the dominant - but only for FUN
purposes, usually erotic. (May or may not be into pain, but if so,
is turned on by pain *indirectly*, ie: enjoys being the objects of
one's partner's sadism, on which the submissive places few
requirements or restrictions.)

6. Uncommitted short-term but more-than-play semi-slave:
Really gives up control (though usually within limits); wants to
serve and be used by the dominant; wants to provide practical/non-
erotic as well as fun/ erotic services; but only when the "slave" is
in the mood. May even act as a full-time slave for, say, several
days at a time, but is free to quit at any time (or at the end of
the agreed upon several days). May or may not have a long-term
relationship with one's Mistress/Master, but, either way,
the "slave" has the final say over when he or she will serve.

7. Part-time consensual but REAL slave:
Has ongoing commitment to an owner/slave relationship, and regards
oneself as the Mistress'/Master's "property" at all times. Wants to
obey and please her/him in all aspects of life - practical/non-
erotic as well as fun/erotic. Devotes most of one's time to other
commitments (eg: job) but the Mistress/Master has first pick of the
slave's free time.

8. Full-time live-in consensual slave:
Within no more than a few broad limits/requirements, the slave
regards herself/ himself as existing solely for the
Mistress'/Master's use, pleasure and well- being. The slave in turn
expects to be regarded as a prized possession. Not much different
from the situation of the traditional housewife, except that within
the S/M world the slave's position is more likely to be fully
consensual, especially if the slave is male (since men certainly
aren't socially pressured into this kind of lifestyle). Within the
S/M world, a full-time "slave" arrangement is entered into with an
explicit awareness of the magnitude of power that is being given up,
and hence is usually entered into much more carefully, with more
awareness of the possible dangers, and with much clearer and more
specific agreements than usually precede the traditional marriage.

9. Consensual total slave with no limits:
A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life
(except in authoritarian religious cults and other situations where
the "consent" is induced by brainwashing and/or social or economic
pressures, and hence isn't fully consensual). A few S/M purists will
insist that you aren't really a slave unless you're willing to do
absolutely *anything* for your Mistress/ Master, with no limits at
all. There are a few who claim to be no-limits slaves, but in all
cases it would be reasonable to doubt the claim.

This list has been seen here before but most have felt an aversion to defining levels. It is very subjective, and also in this type list, brings about a belief that some are better or more real than others when in reality it is just the opinion of one person from their desired perspective for themselves.

Catalina

 

[Blushing Bottom]

After reading this and some thought I realize I am slightly more than half way there at a 6.

d

Hello All. I am new to this forum. I saw the title of this thread and thought that the list I am posting below on "Levels" of submission may benefit some. It may be fun to ask what your Dom or sub thinks his or her level is and see how closely it reconciles with what you think it is. If anyone wants to chat please feel free to drop me a line. Have a great day.

Levels of submission:

1. The outright non-submissive masochist or kinky sensualist:
Not into servitude, humiliation or giving up of control; just pain
and/or spiced-up sensuality, on the masochist's own terms for the
masochist's own pleasure (ie: being turned on solely or mainly by
one's own bodily sensations, rather than being turned on by
being "used" to gratify one's partner's sadism).

2. Pseudo-submissive non-slave:
Not into even playing "slave", but into other "submissive" role-
playing, e.g.: schoolteacher scenes, infantilism, "forced"
transvestism. Usually into humiliation, but NOT into servitude, even
in play. Dictates the scene to a large degree.

3. Pseudo-submissive PLAY slave:
Likes to play at being slave. Likes to *feel* subservient; may in
some cases like to *feel* that one is being "used" to gratify one's
partner's sadism; and may even really serve the dominant in some
ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the scene to a
large degree; often fetishistic (e.g. foot worshippers).

4. True submissive non-slave:
Really gives up control (though only temporarily and within agreed
upon limits), but gets his/her main satisfaction from aspects of
submission *other than* serving or being used by the dominant.
Usually turned on by suspense, vulnerability, and/or giving up of
responsibility. Doesn't dictate the scene except in very general
terms, but still seeks mainly her/his own *direct* pleasure (rather
than getting one's pleasure mainly from pleasing the dominant).

5. True submissive PLAY slave:
Really gives up control (though only temporarily; only during
brief "scenes" and within limits) and gets his/her main satisfaction
from serving and being used by the dominant - but only for FUN
purposes, usually erotic. (May or may not be into pain, but if so,
is turned on by pain *indirectly*, ie: enjoys being the objects of
one's partner's sadism, on which the submissive places few
requirements or restrictions.)

6. Uncommitted short-term but more-than-play semi-slave:
Really gives up control (though usually within limits); wants to
serve and be used by the dominant; wants to provide practical/non-
erotic as well as fun/ erotic services; but only when the "slave" is
in the mood. May even act as a full-time slave for, say, several
days at a time, but is free to quit at any time (or at the end of
the agreed upon several days). May or may not have a long-term
relationship with one's Mistress/Master, but, either way,
the "slave" has the final say over when he or she will serve.

7. Part-time consensual but REAL slave:
Has ongoing commitment to an owner/slave relationship, and regards
oneself as the Mistress'/Master's "property" at all times. Wants to
obey and please her/him in all aspects of life - practical/non-
erotic as well as fun/erotic. Devotes most of one's time to other
commitments (eg: job) but the Mistress/Master has first pick of the
slave's free time.

8. Full-time live-in consensual slave:
Within no more than a few broad limits/requirements, the slave
regards herself/ himself as existing solely for the
Mistress'/Master's use, pleasure and well- being. The slave in turn
expects to be regarded as a prized possession. Not much different
from the situation of the traditional housewife, except that within
the S/M world the slave's position is more likely to be fully
consensual, especially if the slave is male (since men certainly
aren't socially pressured into this kind of lifestyle). Within the
S/M world, a full-time "slave" arrangement is entered into with an
explicit awareness of the magnitude of power that is being given up,
and hence is usually entered into much more carefully, with more
awareness of the possible dangers, and with much clearer and more
specific agreements than usually precede the traditional marriage.

9. Consensual total slave with no limits:
A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life
(except in authoritarian religious cults and other situations where
the "consent" is induced by brainwashing and/or social or economic
pressures, and hence isn't fully consensual). A few S/M purists will
insist that you aren't really a slave unless you're willing to do
absolutely *anything* for your Mistress/ Master, with no limits at
all. There are a few who claim to be no-limits slaves, but in all
cases it would be reasonable to doubt the claim.

 

[Lester_Hammond]

I fantasize a lot about being a submissive but the bottom line (excuse the pun!) is that I probably couldn't go through with it in real life. Or perhaps I could but it would be limited to bedroom time only. I believe that everything you do should be done in moderation.