Lesbian category

[MillieDynamite]

This is why I still frequent 4chan. In between all the... well, sometimes there just aren't words, but you do sometimes find amateur gems (Don't click this link. seriously, don't. you really won't enjoy it. not a bit. Best to close the browser and back away right now...)

Well, now I have to find out for myself.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I’ve found “lesbian” a little niche. In other categories your characters can flow on the tides of sexuality but in les they must remain les. I have stories in romance where characters fluidly explore without detractors but when you post in a niche I guess you have an audience who expect you to follow some rules. Like I got a lot of one bombs in inc/tab because I explored taboo instead of blood rellies. Maybe it’s time I broadened my own understanding and tried writing to an expectation.

F/M sex in LS is iffy - probably not going to go down well unless it's framed as a minor aspect to a mostly F-F-focussed story. But characters definitely don't have to be established as Gold Star Lesbian.

Sarah, the narrator of "Anjali's Red Scarf", would consider herself lesbian, but at the start of the story she's in a long-term relationship with a trans guy. (He transitioned after they got together). Anjali is unapologetically pansexual, and all of her dating experience pre-Sarah has been with guys. Phoebe, the love interest in "A Stringed Instrument", describes herself as "straight but with one exception". I haven't had any grief for those characters not passing a lesbian purity test.

 

[onehitwanda]

https://media.tenor.com/UMKNlBaqX2UAAAAM/eyebrow-wriggle-raised-brow.gif

 

[EmilyMiller]

https://media.tenor.com/UMKNlBaqX2UAAAAM/eyebrow-wriggle-raised-brow.gif

Smugness is not an attractive quality

 

[onehitwanda]

Smugness is not an attractive quality

steal a lapdancetop!

 

[EmilyMiller]

steal a lapdancetop!

I have one. I just try to keep porn off of it!

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Most mainstream porn with two women in it is two heterosexual or, at best, bi women play acting what men want to see. Then that goes for most porn regardless of the gender / orientation of the actors. Saying that, you can often tell when two female pornstars are getting into each other, as opposed to going through the motions. A lack of theatrical groans and “yes, yes, yes, lick that clit” is a clue.

There is porn made by lesbians for lesbians and I know some guys actually prefer a this more authentic take. But it’s not really mainstream.

Em

I'm curious about this. I've read some lesbian sex stories, but not that many. Do authors of lesbian sex stories find a dedicated male audience for them? Can you tell from comments whether they respond differently to them than women readers do (assuming readers reveal their gender and do so accurately)?


One of the sexiest movies I ever saw was The Hunger, a vampire movie that featured an erotic encounter between Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve, both of whom rank high on my list of sexiest actresses ever. There's definitely a male appetite for woman on woman erotica, but I agree with you it's probably quite different from what lesbian or bi women are looking for.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm curious about this. I've read some lesbian sex stories, but not that many. Do authors of lesbian sex stories find a dedicated male audience for them? Can you tell from comments whether they respond differently to them than women readers do (assuming readers reveal their gender and do so accurately)?

The lesbian stories I have posted get male comments. And not just from guys following me. Then Lit is an overwhelmingly male place.

It seems that there is a higher proportion of female writers than of female readers for some reason. So I sometimes get female authors commenting. Regular girls rather less (except for people I know).

Some guys seem to like girl on girl, while others fantasize about interrupting the action and inserting themselves (all possible connotations).

While I’ll respond to a guy and and a girl, especially if they are pushing some of my other buttons, I find girl girl more esthetically pleasing. We are just cuter I’m afraid.

One of the sexiest movies I ever saw was The Hunger, a vampire movie that featured an erotic encounter between Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve, both of whom rank high on my list of sexiest actresses ever. There's definitely a male appetite for woman on woman erotica, but I agree with you it's probably quite different from what lesbian or bi women are looking for.

Not seen it. Will have to check it out some time.

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm curious about this. I've read some lesbian sex stories, but not that many. Do authors of lesbian sex stories find a dedicated male audience for them? Can you tell from comments whether they respond differently to them than women readers do (assuming readers reveal their gender and do so accurately)?

There definitely are quite a few male readers in that category. At least, I'm assuming that the commenters on LS who represent themselves as male are mostly telling the truth, because it's one place where there wouldn't seem to be a lot of incentive for women to represent themselves as men.

It's hard to generalise about how male readers respond to my stories there, because they're not all there for the same reasons. My extremely speculative breakdown of male readers in LS:

• Read LS because they read everything.
• Looking for women to cyber with, heard there were a lot of women in the category.
• Uncomfortable reading stories with somebody else's erect penis in them (might turn them gay, doncha know) and so are looking for a cock-free zone.
• Aroused by girl-on-girl and don't give a toss about notions of "authenticity".
• "Forbidden love" kink.
• Genuinely interested in realistic female-female sexuality/relationships (whether for sexual interest or just curiosity about life on the other side of the fence) and hoping to learn something about it from stories.
• Not there specifically for F-F but rather for the things that they hope to find accompanying it - e.g. three-dimensional female characters who don't fall into traditional gender roles, people talking a lot about their feelings.
  • Subtype: guys who want to read a romance story without having to acknowledge it as romance because of various prejudices against that genre.
• Found an author they liked somewhere else, followed them to LS.
• Probably other stuff I've forgotten.

Without checking people's bios, I think most of the responses I get from male readers are not distinguishable from those I get from female (or non-binary) readers, unless they throw in an "I'm a guy, but..."

One of the sexiest movies I ever saw was The Hunger, a vampire movie that featured an erotic encounter between Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve, both of whom rank high on my list of sexiest actresses ever. There's definitely a male appetite for woman on woman erotica, but I agree with you it's probably quite different from what lesbian or bi women are looking for.

It says something when David Bowie is the third sexiest person in a movie. I think that movie was the first time I ever saw female-female sexuality on screen, and I've referenced it in a couple of my stories here.

 

[onehitwanda]

I'm curious about this. I've read some lesbian sex stories, but not that many. Do authors of lesbian sex stories find a dedicated male audience for them? Can you tell from comments whether they respond differently to them than women readers do (assuming readers reveal their gender and do so accurately)?

For me it's a melange (I love that word) of both - I get "girls" telling me about their slow-rolling orgasms and "guys" telling me how much they loved the slow-burn romance. I also get ones like this:

From a list of your great stories, to me, this is your best. I have daughters, one who has been divorced and one who might be one day (justifiably, if so). Observing the impact of a bad marriage vs the euphoria of a strong relationship was more personal than I anticipated. You have such a strong grasp of dialogue, interesting, believable, and able to convey the requisite emotion. This is not just your best story, but, again in my view, one of the best stories of this genre on this site. It currently sits at number 1, and should stay there or nealy so, though there are some spectacular women writers here. I loved the pacing, the exploratory nature of the relationship and the ultimate strength of Sam in her handling the big confrontation. The grace shown by her father-in-law was a welcome surprise, but having watched way too many hours of BBC television, plausible. The story was engrossing, the characters compelling, and the sex was blazing hot, sensual and, frankly enviable (that from a hetero male, for what it’s worth). 5 stars are not enough. I hope you get as much pleasure from writing them as your stories give us readers. Any praise you receive for this one cannot possibly too effusive.

which I'd assumed (stupidly, probably) was posted by a mum. But the profile that I've just gone and checked says male. So... I don't know, right?

One of the sexiest movies I ever saw was The Hunger, a vampire movie that featured an erotic encounter between Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve, both of whom rank high on my list of sexiest actresses ever. There's definitely a male appetite for woman on woman erotica, but I agree with you it's probably quite different from what lesbian or bi women are looking for.

Black Swan.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/BNP0fRRdmZeda/giphy.gif

Mmmmmmmmm.

 

[MelissaBaby]

There definitely are quite a few male readers in that category. At least, I'm assuming that the commenters on LS who represent themselves as male are mostly telling the truth, because it's one place where there wouldn't seem to be a lot of incentive for women to represent themselves as men.

It's hard to generalise about how male readers respond to my stories there, because they're not all there for the same reasons. My extremely speculative breakdown of male readers in LS:

• Read LS because they read everything.
• Looking for women to cyber with, heard there were a lot of women in the category.
• Uncomfortable reading stories with somebody else's erect penis in them (might turn them gay, doncha know) and so are looking for a cock-free zone.
• Aroused by girl-on-girl and don't give a toss about notions of "authenticity".
• "Forbidden love" kink.
• Genuinely interested in realistic female-female sexuality/relationships (whether for sexual interest or just curiosity about life on the other side of the fence) and hoping to learn something about it from stories.
• Not there specifically for F-F but rather for the things that they hope to find accompanying it - e.g. three-dimensional female characters who don't fall into traditional gender roles, people talking a lot about their feelings.
  • Subtype: guys who want to read a romance story without having to acknowledge it as romance because of various prejudices against that genre.
• Found an author they liked somewhere else, followed them to LS.
• Probably other stuff I've forgotten.

Without checking people's bios, I think most of the responses I get from male readers are not distinguishable from those I get from female (or non-binary) readers, unless they throw in an "I'm a guy, but..."



It says something when David Bowie is the third sexiest person in a movie. I think that movie was the first time I ever saw female-female sexuality on screen, and I've referenced it in a couple of my stories here.

I m going to add to your list men who view lesbians as hyper-sexualized women. A lot of men are conditioned to believe that women are not really interested in sex, so the idea of two (or more) women who are so sexual that THEY WILL EVEN HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER turns them on.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Judging by my own humble experiences with the category, I would say that women prefer to read slower lesbian romance stories that involve more fleshed-out characters, while men who read lesbian stories prefer hotter and kinkier stories with plenty of sex. .

When I published my first lesbian story here, my account being created like a few days before that and not displaying my gender, I received plenty of very positive feedback by email from what looked to me like female readers. My first story chapter contained no real sex, just a few light masturbation scenes and a lot of build-up. Anyway, I am kinda convinced that they thought I was a woman at the time. As my story progressed and became more sex-focused and kinkier, what looked like male commenters started emerging, while female ones dwindled, even though I don't think I neglected character development and romance aspects.

This might be just an isolated case, but judging by the other stories I've read in the category, and assuming commenters don't lie (much) about their gender, I would say there are reasons to believe that all that manifested in my own lesbian series happens in many other lesbian stories as well.

Now, my own motivation for reading lesbian stories while being a straight guy is that I simply find lesbian sex very hot in general. It has been like that since I first discovered porn. I like male-female scenes too, assuming female to male ratio is at least 1:1, preferably more. I don't mind guys in the sex scenes but I don't need them there either, especially considering that many porn scenes are guy-centric.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Black Swan.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/BNP0fRRdmZeda/giphy.gif

Mmmmmmmmm.

Never had an FFF, saving myself for Natalie and Mila .

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I m going to add to your list men who view lesbians as hyper-sexualized women. A lot of men are conditioned to believe that women are not really interested in sex, so the idea of two (or more) women who are so sexual that THEY WILL EVEN HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER turns them on.

WTF! Really?



Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Judging by my own humble experiences with the category, I would say that women prefer to read slower lesbian romance stories that involve more fleshed-out characters, while men who read lesbian stories prefer hotter and kinkier stories with plenty of sex.

Put “some” in front of “women” and “men” and you may be on to something.

TBH - and I get tired of saying this - Jane Doe doesn’t exist - lesbian Jane Doe even less.

Speaking as an individual - I like good writing. If that’s well done slow burn with rising attraction, then great. If it’s well done FMC #1 using a strap-on on FMC #2, then great again.

Just like a boy-girl relationship, girl-girl ones are multi-faceted. It varies from couple to couple. And with the same couple it varies from day to day (or morning to evening).

Case study: I had two long-term lesbian relationships that ran concurrently (both girls knew about the other one). One of them was perhaps the canonical cuddles and stroking and soft music playing in the background. The other was often pretty kinky. But… even the kinky one had plenty of much softer moments. Probably the majority of times we made love, it was vanilla. And vanilla is a nice flavor.

Em

PS I find myself saying “made love” all the time, is this a sign of age? Or is monogamy making me soft?

 

[TheRedChamber]

It's hard to generalise about how male readers respond to my stories there, because they're not all there for the same reasons. My extremely speculative breakdown of male readers in LS:

As a man who reads lesbian porn I'm going to go through your list and make comments based solely on my own proclivities

• Read LS because they read everything.

True, I read (and publish) widely across most categories. I'm interested in all kinds of sexuality and will often read Fetish porn that has a personal s quick just to see what turns some people on.

FWIW I also read in the Gay category sometimes.

• Looking for women to cyber with, heard there were a lot of women in the category.

Cybering is not my bag.

• Uncomfortable reading stories with somebody else's erect penis in them (might turn them gay, doncha know) and so are looking for a cock-free zone.

Lol, Not at all for me. Don't under the this mentality but I dare say they're out there.

• Aroused by girl-on-girl and don't give a toss about notions of "authenticity".

This is probably more true of me with visual porn. I like women's bodies, so 2 for the price of 1 is always good value. I guess this carries over to the more porny stories as well.

• "Forbidden love" kink.

Yes, dramatically I think a certain amount of taboo or at least uncertain (from whereeever it comes) helps in a story. Certainly a story need a bit of 'well this is new' to it.

• Genuinely interested in realistic female-female sexuality/relationships (whether for sexual interest or just curiosity about life on the other side of the fence) and hoping to learn something about it from stories.

Yep, see above. 'Realistic but still hot' is ideal although I dare say as a man I have realism blind spots.

• Not there specifically for F-F but rather for the things that they hope to find accompanying it - e.g. three-dimensional female characters who don't fall into traditional gender roles, people talking a lot about their feelings.

I like 3d characters. I don't think I approach the lesbian category in the expectation that it's going to be better written than any of the other categories (that might be a good separate thread, which categories have the best technical writing)

• Subtype: guys who want to read a romance story without having to acknowledge it as romance because of various prejudices against that genre.

Yes. I like a bit of romance, but since I have written in Romance the shame part doesn't really apply to me.

• Found an author they liked somewhere else, followed them to LS.

Sure. This has happened.

• Probably other stuff I've forgotten.

I m going to add to your list men who view lesbians as hyper-sexualized women. A lot of menare conditioned to believe that women are not really interested in sex, so the idea of two (or more) women who are so sexual that THEY WILL EVEN HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER turns them on.

Well, coming from a visual porn perspective, a lot of the girl-on-girl stuff is done by women who also do straight scenes so there is an element of 'open to anything (including the elusive mff threesome)' which is obviously good in fantasy. I remember being asked by a woman years ago why men would watch lesbian porn when there's no possibility that the women would want to have sex with me. This is kind of missing the point - none of the gorgeous porn stars would want to have sex with me anyway, so the essential fantasy isn't that different. I think in both visual and written porn I'm interested in seeing women being sexually aroused and, to a greater or lesser extent, I don't care what gets them going as long as they get going.

 

[SimonDoom]

A lot of really intelligent and insightful responses to my comment, which I was somewhat reluctant to make. Sometimes I feel like this forum works exactly the way it's supposed to.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Well, coming from a visual porn perspective, a lot of the girl-on-girl stuff is done by women who also do straight scenes so there is an element of 'open to anything (including the elusive mff threesome)' which is obviously good in fantasy. I remember being asked by a woman years ago why men would watch lesbian porn when there's no possibility that the women would want to have sex with me. This is kind of missing the point - none of the gorgeous porn stars would want to have sex with me anyway, so the essential fantasy isn't that different.

And on the other hand, there are plenty of guys who believe that women calling themselves "lesbian" just haven't met the right dick yet (i.e. theirs) :-/

 

[TheRedChamber]

And on the other hand, there are plenty of guys who believe that women calling themselves "lesbian" just haven't met the right dick yet (i.e. theirs) :-/

Nah, I'm pretty sure my penis has 'made' more lesbians than it has 'cured'.

(joking, joking)

 

[Bramblethorn]

I m going to add to your list men who view lesbians as hyper-sexualized women. A lot of men are conditioned to believe that women are not really interested in sex, so the idea of two (or more) women who are so sexual that THEY WILL EVEN HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER turns them on.

I wonder if that ties in with "situational lesbian" porn themes. Feels like the premise of "women in single-sex facility have sex with one another because of lack of male options" meshes well with the mindset that lesbians are just women too horny to keep it straight.

Not that situational homosexuality doesn't happen IRL, and I think you wrote about it in MFAR. But I'm thinking specifically of its popularity as a porn trope.

 

[Bramblethorn]

True, I read (and publish) widely across most categories. I'm interested in all kinds of sexuality and will often read Fetish porn that has a personal s quick just to see what turns some people on.

I hear that. There's something fascinating in reading about something that isn't my kink, but is able to show me why it's somebody else's.

 

[HordHolm]

And on the other hand, there are plenty of guys who believe that women calling themselves "lesbian" just haven't met the right dick yet (i.e. theirs) :-/

And even more negatively, there are the men out there who believe that many lesbians are simply women who can't get a man, usually for (lack of) physical attractiveness. I've even come across a couple of women in my many years who've also thrown that insult out there, but I'm less inclined to believe they actually believe it (or maybe I'm wrong), and are really just using it as a convenient stick to beat on a woman they don't like.

 

[TheRedChamber]

And even more negatively, there are the men out there who believe that many lesbians are simply women who can't get a man, usually for (lack of) physical attractiveness. I've even come across a couple of women in my many years who've also thrown that insult out there, but I'm less inclined to believe they actually believe it (or maybe I'm wrong), and are really just using it as a convenient stick to beat on a woman they don't like.

There's also the fact that some lesbians are less interested in conforming to heteronormative standards of attractiveness and dress verses the fact that some people (I'm tempted to say women especially but eh...) really hate non-conformity. For men, I suspect the underlying discourse might be something like - Asshole: "I don't find you attractive." Lesbian "Well duh, that's because I'm not trying to attract you."