Lables, the levels, and pleasurable pain

[NikiCole]

Ok, I am a newbie, for starters, second I prefer this to be a public discussion, so please no pms.
I am still finding my footing here, and I have read through many postings in the library. And I still have questions. So please forgive me if I do not understand something. I am intrigued by this lifestyle and wish to learn more. Actually, its a need, an itch, an obsession that I have pushed to the back but will not stay there any longer and I want to know.

I have read through many posts and have seen pyl/PYL. One just recently. Can someone explain?

Second, levels of submission. I have heard from someone about total, partial, and lite. Is it a matter of degree, or trust?

Pleasurable pain. I enjoy pain to an extent, spanking or a belt to the bottom, I think. But what I want to know is what is S&M.

I know I am new, and my questions might seem silly to some of you. But I have never had anyone to ask. I was scared to post or even join lit til a few days ago, when I decided it was time to understand these needs and feelings that won't go away. So thank you in advance.
Cole

 

[Bramblethorn]

Second, levels of submission. I have heard from someone about total, partial, and lite. Is it a matter of degree, or trust?

Pleasurable pain. I enjoy pain to an extent, spanking or a belt to the bottom, I think. But what I want to know is what is S&M.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're getting pleasure out of giving/receiving consensual pain, that's S&M. But you'll never find perfect agreement on definitions, and no matter how 'hardcore' you get there'll always be someone more hardcore than you who'll declare that what you're doing isn't real S&M.

"Total", "partial", and "lite", again, depend on who's talking. "Lite" is often used in a derogatory way ("less than what I do, and therefore Not Real BDSM") but ignore people who talk like that; it's not a competition. The right level of BDSM is the one that you and your partner/s enjoy, wherever that is.

 

[Redkate]

PYL = Pick Your Label

When it's all in capitals (PYL), it would be referring to dominant or top roles, like Domme, Dom, Master, Mistress etc.
In lower case (pyl), it's referring to bottom roles like subs.

That's my understanding of it at least. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm giving you a bum steer

 

[Sir_Winston54]

First, Cole, welcome to the BDSM Talk forum and its more light-hearted offspring, the BDSM Café forum. You'll find a *lot* of very experienced and very helpful people here, who just love to converse with intelligent people who have honest questions about WWITWD (What It Is That We Do) and share their knowledge and experience. In the Café, you'll find many of the same people, and some others, who address topics quite *other* than strictly BDSM-related ones, though often from a BDSMer's point of view. Enjoy both!

PYL = Pick Your Label

When it's all in capitals (PYL), it would be referring to dominant or top roles, like Domme, Dom, Master, Mistress etc.
In lower case (pyl), it's referring to bottom roles like subs.

That's my understanding of it at least. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm giving you a bum steer

Redkate has it pretty much right. PYL/pyl was "invented," I think maybe here, to make it easier for people to write than having to type out "Dom/Domme/Master/Mistress/Sadist/Top," or "sub/slave/masochist/bottom," etc. Essentially, the capital letters refer to the one who gives (orders, pain, etc.), and the lower-case to the one who receives them. It's just a shorthand expression for efficiency's sake. It doesn't, however, easily cover such things as a Service Top (who provides topping services for a person who *directs* what is happening to them {often referred to as "topping from the bottom"}.) For the most part, though, it's well understood by most who frequent these parts.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're getting pleasure out of giving/receiving consensual pain, that's S&M. But you'll never find perfect agreement on definitions, and no matter how 'hardcore' you get there'll always be someone more hardcore than you who'll declare that what you're doing isn't real S&M.

"Total", "partial", and "lite", again, depend on who's talking. "Lite" is often used in a derogatory way ("less than what I do, and therefore Not Real BDSM") but ignore people who talk like that; it's not a competition. The right level of BDSM is the one that you and your partner/s enjoy, wherever that is.

Bramblethorn is dead right, especially in the two phrases I bolded above.

Ok, I am a newbie, for starters, second I prefer this to be a public discussion, so please no pms.

I am still finding my footing here, and I have read through many postings in the library. And I still have questions. So please forgive me if I do not understand something. I am intrigued by this lifestyle and wish to learn more. Actually, its a need, an itch, an obsession that I have pushed to the back but will not stay there any longer and I want to know.

There is no need to "forgive" you if you don't understand something. All of us were at one time or another, no matter how far back in prehistory, new to this and didn't understand something(s). We are, as I said above, happy to share what knowledge and experience we have to help make your transition into this culture (if that's what you choose to do) perhaps just a tad easier.

I have read through many posts and have seen pyl/PYL. One just recently. Can someone explain?

Second, levels of submission. I have heard from someone about total, partial, and lite. Is it a matter of degree, or trust?

Pleasurable pain. I enjoy pain to an extent, spanking or a belt to the bottom, I think. But what I want to know is what is S&M.

See above.

I know I am new, and my questions might seem silly to some of you. But I have never had anyone to ask. I was scared to post or even join lit til a few days ago, when I decided it was time to understand these needs and feelings that won't go away. So thank you in advance.
Cole

To paraphrase a lot of movie characters, especially teacher and drill sergeant types: "The only silly questions are the ones you don't ask, the answers to which could hurt or kill you."

To *not* ask questions and seek information about something that is important to you, that carries with it the potentials for harm that this does ("this" being human relationships of any nature, but also and to perhaps a somewhat greater degree a relationship in the BDSM culture): THAT is silly.

So... you're welcome in advance. Ask your questions. You appear to be intelligent; you are quite obviously literate (important in a sex/relationship-based forum named LITerotica!) and composed in your expression of your thoughts/questions; and you have at least a basic idea of the direction you may want to go in the future, even if, after learning more, that direction may change either slightly or tremendously. All those things make it much easier, and more pleasant, for us to give you assistance in finding your way.

 

[NikiCole]

Thank you all, for the information that you have provided, it helps. And thank you for the welcoming, it's nice to see I am not alone in my,(insert which ever word best suits your taste.)

I am still unsure about "top/bottom" though.

It doesn't, however, easily cover such things as a Service Top (who provides topping services for a person who *directs* what is happening to them {often referred to as "topping from the bottom"}.) For the most part, though, it's well understood by most who frequent these parts.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Thank you all, for the information that you have provided, it helps. And thank you for the welcoming, it's nice to see I am not alone in my,(insert which ever word best suits your taste.)

I am still unsure about "top/bottom" though.

It doesn't, however, easily cover such things as a Service Top (who provides topping services for a person who *directs* what is happening to them {often referred to as "topping from the bottom"}.) For the most part, though, it's well understood by most who frequent these parts.

Example: I am a sadist. I like to provide pain (spanking, flogging, paddling, cropping, caning, etc., along with other fun things like cupping, fireplay, hot wax play) to people who like receiving that pain. As the giver of pain, I am a Top (PYL). The receiver is considered a bottom (pyl). In my case, the outer parameters of the actions I take (spanking-caning, hot wax, etc.) are discussed/negotiated with the bottom prior to play beginning, but I then choose what specifically to do, how to do it, how long to do it, etc. (with relatively frequent status checks {see safewords}).

If, on the other hand, the receiver specifically directs me, "Pour hot wax on my nipples and breasts," or "Put the nipple clamps on me; tighter... tighter... ah, that's good. No, a little tighter," she would then be considered "topping from the bottom," i.e., directing the action while I just do what she says. That would make me a Service Top.

 

[NikiCole]

AH! I see. Thank you! You put it in laymen terms I could understand.

 

[njlauren]

Others made the best observation I think, that whatever works for you is genuine and whatever level you find works for you is 'real'. In terms of definitions, it also is a very personal thing, so my attempts to explain this are my own.

Top and bottom to me is about roles in so called scene play (i.e when you are involved in sensation play/bondage and so forth, such as spanking, flogging, bondage, heat play, wax play, whatever). The top is the one 'giving' the 'pain' , the bottom the one 'receiving it'. As Sir Winston put it well, someone as a bottom can tell the top what to do, or the top is in control of that...

Dominance and submission is sort of its own space, it is about power and control. In a dominance and submission relationship (aka D/s), the dominant is given certain power to control a sub, given to them by the sub, and it can range from something done in the bedroom to something that exists all the time, in varying levels. Some people take it to the point where the dominant controls everything 24/7, they decide what the sub wears or doesn't wear, what they eat, where they go, what they have to do during the day, you name it, whereas most people have limited forms of control, that could be simply in the bedroom or could be 24/7 or maybe a couple of days a week....all up to them. Again, it is about control and such.
In a D/s there also can be aspects of training and punishment by the dominant towards the submissive, and that could involve using physical punishment such as spanking, for example, but the idea is punishment/training not for the subs enjoyment (kind of like punishing a child). usually the bounds of this kind of relationship are negotiated between the dominant and sub, if total control the sub agrees to that, in other relationships it is negotiated how much control, what may or may not be done, etc.

So how does dominance and submission relate to scene play and bottom/top? The normal assumption would be that the dominant would be the top and the sub the bottom in terms of scene play, and that is common, but for example, a dominant could have a bottom top them by ordering them to to it (it does happen). When a dominant tops a sub, there can be a slightly different dynamic since in theory, the dominant is controlling it more then in a straight top/bottom relationship, the dynamic in the play is the dominant having power and controlling the sub, rather then being a top in effect playing mutually with the bottom, where it is strictly the play'; whereas as much as the sub might enjoy the play, the dynamic to me is more about pleasing the top, serving them, in taking what they give rather then them 'pleasing you' (though in reality a dominant is generally aware of what the sub likes and may in fact give them what they like, if they feel kindly towards them.

In the end the labels don't matter much, whether you like top/bottom play only, Dominance/submission, some mixture of that, it is cool.

One variation on this are switches, they are people who enjoy being either a top or a bottom, there are also people with D/s that can enjoy being a dominant or a sub, there are lifestyle couples who switch roles, for example, or people who do D/s relationships on a short term with other people and can do either role....

Nice part about all this? Other then doing something harmful, it is the kind of thing where you develop your own style, your own way of doing things, and if others don't think what you are doing isn't 'real', tell them to take a high colonic enema and take a 50 mile hike with a full field pack

 

[Daxaeha]

Posts like this make my day.
I'm just getting out there and asking all these questions too.
The welcoming committee here is fantastic.
I've been here maybe 2 weeks and never want to turn off the computer.

Welcome and good luck from a fellow newbie!