Keep your fingers crossed

SweetCherry

Sex Dork
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Dec 20, 2000
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I just got done reading this. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.

The link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&e=5&u=/usatoday/20030729/ts_usatoday/5361389

And the story:

Supporters and opponents of gay marriage are bracing for a Massachusetts Supreme Court decision that could open the door to same-sex marriages nationwide -- or slam it firmly shut.


The decision, in a case brought by seven gay and lesbian couples seeking marriage licenses, could come any day. It will be the first case asserting a right to gay marriage to reach a state high court decision.


Two court decisions in June have pushed the issue of gay marriage to the forefront. The U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) invalidated state laws that banned consensual gay sex, and a court in Ontario, Canada, ruled that gay couples could not be barred from marrying there.


The Massachusetts ruling will apply only to that state. Even so, if the court rules in favor of same-sex couples, the decision likely will be used to attack ''defense of marriage'' laws that 37 states and the federal government have enacted since 1995. Those laws define marriage as a union of a woman and a man. A proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would define marriage that way has been introduced in the House of Representatives but has not been voted on.


Legal observers on both sides of the issue say they suspect that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, generally liberal, will permit the licenses to be granted.


''It wouldn't happen right away, but over 10 years or so, (such a decision) has the real potential to change the nature of marriage,'' says Bill Duncan, who is counsel to the Marriage Law Project, a group in Washington, D.C., that supports preserving the traditional definition of marriage.


In the Massachusetts case, seven couples denied marriage licenses in 2001 are making two basic claims: that they are being discriminated against based on their sex, and that the state's constitution protects their right to marry, just as it does for heterosexuals.


Citing the long history of traditional marriage, Massachusetts disputes the claim that same-sex couples have a legal right to marriage. Preserving the traditional definition of marriage is good social policy, the state argues, because it promotes family life.


Courts in at least three states have refused to honor ''civil unions,'' ceremonies that gained legal status in Vermont in 2000. Civil unions confer many rights on gay and lesbian couples without granting them licenses to marry.


In April, a judge in New York became the first jurist to recognize the Vermont unions by allowing the partner of a deceased gay man to bring a survivor's lawsuit against a hospital in New York City.


Advocates of same-sex marriage say Vermont-style unions don't meet the legal and emotional needs of many gay and lesbian couples.


''Marriage is a gateway to over 1,000 federal protections, (such as) Social Security (news - web sites) survivors benefits, health care and pension benefits,'' says Josh Friedes, advocacy director for the Freedom to Marry Coalition of Massachusetts. ''And the word 'marriage' is deeply meaningful. Without it, you are stamping gays and lesbians as 'separate,' and . . . separate isn't equal.''


The court decision in Massachusetts could help make same-sex marriage a nationwide phenomenon. If Massachusetts sanctions such marriages, out-of-state couples could marry there and demand that their home states recognize the union.


Even if their state has a defense-of-marriage act, the couples could argue that the Constitution requires their state to recognize another state's official acts
 
I'm hopeful, but there was a piece in USA Today this morning about Poll Shows Backlash on Gay Issues.
Americans have become significantly less accepting of homosexuality since a Supreme Court decision that was hailed as clearing the way for new gay civil rights, a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll has found. After several years of growing tolerance, the survey shows a return to a level of more traditional attitudes last seen in the mid-1990s.
It goes on for a while after that.
 
SweetCherry said:


Even if their state has a defense-of-marriage act, the couples could argue that the Constitution requires their state to recognize another state's official acts

Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution :

"Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public Acts, Records, and Judicial Proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof."


That would on the surface, seem to make it clear that all states must recognize marriages granted by the others, in the same way they recognize driver's licenses.

But conservatives will argue that it also gives Congress the right to regulate that recognition.

What it clearly does not do, is allow one state to arbitrarily refuse to recognize a marriage license issued by another.
 
Re: Re: Keep your fingers crossed

Queersetti said:
What it clearly does not do, is allow one state to arbitrarily refuse to recognize a marriage license issued by another.
I'm pretty sure I've read that states will be (or already have) implementing laws that say they don't have to recognize same sex anything. That might only apply to civil unions, though, rather than marriage licenses.
 
Re: Re: Re: Keep your fingers crossed

Etoile said:
I'm pretty sure I've read that states will be (or already have) implementing laws that say they don't have to recognize same sex anything. That might only apply to civil unions, though, rather than marriage licenses.


You are correct, several states have passed so called "defense of marriage" acts, and more are likely to do so, but such laws are clearly unconstitutional, and are probably meant to force Congress to act.
 
Think, for a moment, about a college student. That student has worked so hard to get into college, and then, when he or she does, often, they are tempted by parties, drugs, etc. Say the student gets involved with parties and drugs, and alcohol, and all kinds of freedoms and luxuries they hadn't experienced before... he/she is living high... and then he/she gets his/her first report card. And it sucks. The moment of sobriety. The moment has come when everything falls into perspective, and instead of being sensible, and deciding to only party maybe one or two days a week, said student swears off parties, drugs, alcohol, etc, believing they're evil and detrimental to the goal: good grades.


Now then. That is my little analogy. The United States is the Land of the Free. They are the leading country in the world for freedoms, etc, and live in luxury unimaginable to other countries. They are the Land of Opportunity, and such freedoms are just the way of life. But then 9/11 occurs. And there's that moment of sobriety. Rather than find some middle ground for freedoms (gun control, civil rights, etc), the Conservatives kick in, and swing the pendulum all the way to the other edge... they begin to cut back on rights that have been hard-fought for, like gay rights.

I've read it, and heard it everywhere.. conservatives are afraid of homosexual unions. Why? Well, because "homosexual unions do not support the idea of 'family'". Why not? There are gay and lesbian couples with children all over the place. So it must be something else. I believe it is a fear of the homosexual lifestyle.. a fear that it is not the norm, and therefore, it encourages rebellion, it encourages free thinking, etc. I say this tongue-in-cheek, because I am a full supporter of gay rights, I'm just trying to think like my grandmother, and this is the kind of stuff that she says.

It just seems that the tightening of civil rights involving gays and lesbians is the backlash of the 9/11 incident.. even if indirectly. The USA suffered a blow, and since then seems unwilling to move forward with some key rights and freedoms that were slowly moving forward before the 9/11 incident.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to trivialize 9/11. I wouldn't do that at all. I am just asking you to think about the possible correlation between that date, and it's horrible incidents, and the general opinion towards less conservative rights, laws, and actions, now.

Maybe that made no sense.. it did in my head.. I'm sorry if it didn't to you all.
 
I understand your point, but I don't agree.

The conservative assault on civil liberties, not just for gays and lesbians, but across the board, predates September 11.
 
Uh, that seems kind of off-topic. It also echoes the sentiments of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson in a big way. In other words, I completely disagree.
 
Okay, so my first post on this forum wasn't a splash.

That's okay, you don't have to agree with me. That's what debate grows out of.
 
WOW!

I'm sorry that they aren't legal in the US. Seems many people are fighting for rights all over the world.

Same sex marriages are legal here.
 
LeatherDoll said:
WOW!

I'm sorry that they aren't legal in the US. Seems many people are fighting for rights all over the world.

Same sex marriages are legal here.
Heh, I guess we can be kind of U.S.-centric sometimes. I thought most people in the world knew they weren't legal here! Although, now that I think of it, they are only legal in three countries in the world anyway, which is a very small part of the world. Where do you live, LeatherDoll?
 
Etoile said:
Heh, I guess we can be kind of U.S.-centric sometimes. I thought most people in the world knew they weren't legal here! Although, now that I think of it, they are only legal in three countries in the world anyway, which is a very small part of the world. Where do you live, LeatherDoll?
Same sex marriages are legal in the city I live in but not the entire country. My apologies. I should have been more specific. :)
 
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