It ain't cheating if...

[Britva415]

IMO,it’s in the eye of all involved parties - all the spouses (‘spice’?) for sure. If there are visible reactions then the pool of involved parties could grow quick - kids wondering why parent 1 is upset with parent 2, for instance.

If all they know is that one spouse is upset, then, it's in the eye of that spouse.

If they know why that spouse is upset, then sure, they're likely to apply their own biases and judgements about whether "it was cheating" or not, and they're likely to agree with the spouse who thought they were cheated on.

Unless they're calling something totally ridiculous "cheating." Sometimes the "victim" doesn't get the sympathy if they're really just being unreasonable.

Don't ask me to define ridiculous or unreasonable. Just admit that such a thing can be possible and people will know it when they see it.

 

[LupusDei]

Unless they're calling something totally ridiculous "cheating." Sometimes the "victim" doesn't get the sympathy if they're really just being unreasonable.

Let's say,

John and Alice is in committed relationship. John is experienced, and been very open about his past to her, perhaps exceedingly so. He believed Alice was a perfect virgin until learning, just by being that attentive, that she had a girlfriend before him. A girl Alice is still casual friends with, but anything more is long over, or so they both say. He's a bit dubious it is, but perfectly fine with it either way, just a bit upset she wasn't open about it but is understanding, just saying he expects to know from now on if they need girl time.

At John's work there's a girl Betty, who comes at him hard out of the blue, like ridiculously provocative. Genders reversed, criminal sexual assault, clearly, and she also happen to be his boss wife. John tells everything about it to Alice. She's like, you will have to fuck that bitch to put her out of heat. John's like, he won't be going out of his way to do it, but understands he has a green light if something happens. Alice explicitly confirms.

Sure, John fuck Betty, and gives Alice a replay thrust by thrust. Betty wants more, and Alice demand Betty's number, and John isn't surprised at all that Alice has set up a threesome. Betty says she's never leaving her husband (who's supposedly oblivious, but John has reasons to suspect is not) but wants John's baby. Alice is okay with that, she says it's too soon for her own babies. John's in heaven.

Is John entitled to feel cheated on, if he finds Alice and Betty having fun in intentional secrecy from him?

Like, he wouldn't have minded, wouldn't exactly expect them to report everything, but they have gone out of their way to try to hide it from him, telling direct lies.

 

[sirhugs]

IMO,it’s in the eye of all involved parties - all the spouses (‘spice’?) for sure. If there are visible reactions then the pool of involved parties could grow quick - kids wondering why parent 1 is upset with parent 2, for instance.

no kids on Lit, unless they are 18+

 

[UsuallyPresent]

no kids on Lit, unless they are 18+

Then adult neighbors, business partners, and other adult social contacts of varied persuasions

 

[PastMaster]

It aint cheating if all parties in a relationship agree to it. Outside of that - it is. Having been on the sharp end of it, I hate the concept and even the stories provoke a real visceral reaction in me. I can read BTB and have written a couple, two of which Lit wouldnt publish because my revenge was too extreme for them.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

Let's say,

John and Alice is in committed relationship. John is experienced, and been very open about his past to her, perhaps exceedingly so. He believed Alice was a perfect virgin until learning, just by being that attentive, that she had a girlfriend before him. A girl Alice is still casual friends with, but anything more is long over, or so they both say. He's a bit dubious it is, but perfectly fine with it either way, just a bit upset she wasn't open about it but is understanding, just saying he expects to know from now on if they need girl time.

At John's work there's a girl Betty, who comes at him hard out of the blue, like ridiculously provocative. Genders reversed, criminal sexual assault, clearly, and she also happen to be his boss wife. John tells everything about it to Alice. She's like, you will have to fuck that bitch to put her out of heat. John's like, he won't be going out of his way to do it, but understands he has a green light if something happens. Alice explicitly confirms.

Sure, John fuck Betty, and gives Alice a replay thrust by thrust. Betty wants more, and Alice demand Betty's number, and John isn't surprised at all that Alice has set up a threesome. Betty says she's never leaving her husband (who's supposedly oblivious, but John has reasons to suspect is not) but wants John's baby. Alice is okay with that, she says it's too soon for her own babies. John's in heaven.

Is John entitled to feel cheated on, if he finds Alice and Betty having fun in intentional secrecy from him?

Like, he wouldn't have minded, wouldn't exactly expect them to report everything, but they have gone out of their way to try to hide it from him, telling direct lies.

In John’s shoes I’d feel upset, as the agreements with Alice were explicit. If they had an open marriage or arrangement, then I would not expect Alice OKing Betty so clearly. Trust is damaged and communication didn’t happen. If they’d talked and he OK’d it, that would be different, imo

 

[BrattyLinds]

I could, but they havent posted the one I did write.

Have you checked to see if it's still pending?

 

[drobert44]

Have you checked to see if it's still pending?

Nope/////////

 

[Britva415]

Is John entitled to feel cheated on, if he finds Alice and Betty having fun in intentional secrecy from him?

Well, three things.

First, because of the secrecy I think a lot of people would call this cheating, regardless of what John thinks.

Second, "entitlement" doesn't really matter that much. That's a judgement which people looking in from the outside make. It's an argument which Alice might make, ignoring John's feelings. People can't help what they feel a lot of the time. If John feels cheated on, especially where the secrecy is concerned, sure, why shouldn't he feel cheated on. It's not really about "entitlement" in this specific situation, and neither in a lot of others.

Third, you paint a picture of a scenario where it could go either way. This is far from the "ridiculous" and "unreasonable" things I had in mind. I feel like you worked hard to contrive a situation where it would be hard to say whether this is cheating or not.

Well done. This is exactly why I didn't want to define things or give examples. Every situation is different, and I don't deny that there are situations where it's a tough call. I was just making the point that there are situations where the call is not tough but someone might unreasonably exploit it for manufactured victimhood anyway. This isn't one of them, as described.

 

[PastMaster]

In John’s shoes I’d feel upset, as the agreements with Alice were explicit. If they had an open marriage or arrangement, then I would not expect Alice OKing Betty so clearly. Trust is damaged and communication didn’t happen. If they’d talked and he OK’d it, that would be different, imo

To me the most important phrase in the story is the 'telling direct lies'
Aside from anything else I dont see the reason for it. I would also be suspicious if the whole thing hadnt been a setup in the first place.
I agree with Britva - people feel what they feel - and being entitled is a phrase that in todays society is overused - everyone seems to feel that they are entitled to whatever they want.
Is John Justified in feeling aggrieved - I would say so. Especially because they lied to him. Once you find out that your S/O is prepared to tell those kinds of lies to you, the trust in the relationship is gone. That is a potential death knell for it.

 

[alohadave]

Is there a story idea anywhere here?

 

[TomTeacher19]

I'm not sure if whether or not it's cheating is as important as what all the involved parties think about it. Clearly some love what they think of as cheating. Others find it deplorable.

 

[sirhugs]

Is there a story idea anywhere here?

several I think.

 

[Britva415]

Is there a story idea anywhere here?

I mean, yeah, I took the very first post as a story brainstorm, maybe turned collective.

I guess the story idea would be, write a story about a situation where what appears to be cheating according to conventional judgements is not cheating according to the agreements among the partners/participants.

I already have two stories like this, so maybe that's why my mind went there.

 

[LupusDei]

Is there a story idea anywhere here?

I feel like you worked hard to contrive a situation where it would be hard to say whether this is cheating or not.

It's a possible late development in a story I have written the initial scene on at quite some length (where that other gal strip naked in front of John at work).

In John’s shoes I’d feel upset, as the agreements with Alice were explicit. If they had an open marriage or arrangement, then I would not expect Alice OKing Betty so clearly. Trust is damaged and communication didn’t happen. If they’d talked and he OK’d it, that would be different, imo

First, because of the secrecy I think a lot of people would call this cheating, regardless of what John thinks.

To me the most important phrase in the story is the 'telling direct lies'
Aside from anything else I dont see the reason for it.

That's exactly how I see it too, as long there's no lies the situation can slip quite far and remain if not exactly acceptable then at least within the dubious territory.

Effectively the affront is about lies and not about the sex itself. And indeed, especially because there was no logical reason for the lies.

Alice possibly could blame Betty, saying that since Betty is cheating (supposedly) and all her events are involving lies the Betty's husband, it just kinda stuck with her too.

I would also be suspicious if the whole thing hadnt been a setup in the first place.

I see how it could be fun twist in a combination, but at least in my version it's definitely not.

Alice and Betty meet through John. Alice isn't initially all that happy with the situation but give OK seeing it as inevitable, and decides to get most out of it herself. John enthusiastically fucks Betty until getting her pregnant, then loses interest -- it's almost a contract job at work for him, and the project is done. Alice jumped in early, but then take over their relationship with Betty when John moved aside.

So John would be happy to close the thing with Betty entirely, although she's a babe and he had her rougher and more dominant than he does Alice, but now she's pregnant and he's not into raping pregnant women even willing. Meanwhile Alice has started this photography project of Betty's pregnancy or something equally ridiculous, as rather transparent front for getting sex with her.

John puts up with it recognizing Betty's emotional needs. Her marriage is ridiculous, with a man twenty years senior. She apparently has dates with on Saturdays that may or not result in some very tame missionary sex. He's more of a father to her than husband, but that's also why she's not leaving, besides him being relatively wealthy.

Especially in comparison to John&Alice who are college students without a place to fuck, hadn't John expropriated an apartment his father was apparently intended for his own mistress he cheated on John's mother with. Father/son double penetration of said mistress Alice prohibited, because she don't want John's dad -- and assumed such proposals would follow, but wants said appartment herself. To their knowledge, they destroyed that relationship in the process.

And yes, John work for said Betty's husband, and Alice is adamant John should hold on that job even if he has to fuck boss wife for it. With may be more true than anyone seem to realize, Betty's husband is actually infertile and probably chuckles watching the youngers squirming trying to keep him oblivious, while he hired John to father children of his daughter-wife.

 

[rutherford366]

...your partner encourages it.

Then it's not cheating. I don't see why people have a problem with that.

 

[PapaRomantic]

I wrote a story about a deployed soldier who asked his wife's father to take care of her needs since he didn't want her straying to other guys and he didn't have to worry about his wife running away with her dad. Not for all, admittedly.

 

[Britva415]

he didn't have to worry about his wife running away with her dad

I don't see why not, but it's your story

 

[sirhugs]

It ain't cheating if he buys expensive diamond earrings for me

(it's still cheating, but maybe I'll forgive him lol)

would make an interesting story...