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Is BDSM inborn or made ?

I think there is a tendancy which is often supressed . I think in my case it was dormant and simmering. But I'm submissive in real life and have an overwhelming urge to please.
However also in my case it took certain people to lead the way for me to discover what i want and need and how i react. I'm still in the process. An emerging sub. Not fully formed. Discovering. So maybe both ? In inborn trait which if nurtured flourishes?
 
For me, It is learned... so far.
But I do think there is a little monster in me that hasn't been awaken yet.
When it is, I am sure it has the potential to be life chaninging.
But if I don't experiment, and learn, it may stay sleeping until the day I die.
 
Sir Victor said:
Perhaps you'll find this interesting:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=634420&page=2&post=#32

Also:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=353585

And:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=12662239#post12662239
Click to expand...
*snicker*

Dudes, really. "Survival of the fittest" does NOT mean Conan the Barbarian. Look it up.

You wanna top a girl? Go for it. Don't claim that it's because God or Darwin decreed that a Man's Role Is Master, though. That's simply creepy.

For every post you've linked to here, there's a refutation a couple posts below.
 
Stella_Omega said:
*snicker*

Dudes, really. "Survival of the fittest" does NOT mean Conan the Barbarian. Look it up.

You wanna top a girl? Go for it. Don't claim that it's because God or Darwin decreed that a Man's Role Is Master, though. That's simply creepy.

For every post you've linked to here, there's a refutation a couple posts below.
Click to expand...

I like you! :D

I never get that "destiny" thing. Maybe for a man, personally, individually, cuz that's how he's made. That sure doesn't explain those who are happily equal-ish or sub, though. (Nor should it.) It's an individual thing, both the drive itself, and the need/choice to act on it, or not. (IMO)
 
Stella_Omega said:
*snicker*

Dudes, really. "Survival of the fittest" does NOT mean Conan the Barbarian. Look it up.

You wanna top a girl? Go for it. Don't claim that it's because God or Darwin decreed that a Man's Role Is Master, though. That's simply creepy.

For every post you've linked to here, there's a refutation a couple posts below.
Click to expand...

Put some substance into your response if you want to debate this, and do not make assumptions. Where did I say anything about barbarians or survival of the fittest? Did you even read the links? You sound very much like a self proclaimed internet "expert".
 
I don't mean to belittle the OP or the very earnest inquiries of those who have replied, but I think that this is an unanswerable question. It's really not all that far from asking, "Do you take your lunch to work or the bus?" The traits that may be inborn do not necessarily relate in a direct way to the behaviors that we come to prefer at some point in our lives.
 
Sir Victor said:
Put some substance into your response if you want to debate this, and do not make assumptions. Where did I say anything about barbarians or survival of the fittest? Did you even read the links? You sound very much like a self proclaimed internet "expert".
Click to expand...
yeah, I read the first one and I read the links you linked to.

Very simplistic, pseudoscientific stuff, I'm sure its comforting to conflicted m-doms.

But you know? It's so unnecessary! Dom all you want to, with joy and grace and facefucking or whatever gets you going; there are plenty women out there that want to be dommed by men.

Just for crissake, stop with the evo-bio crap, because it reduces us to cartoons of ourselves. We owe ourselves much more consideration.

And it's all wishful thinking. Your link to Gallant Man's post, for instance: Words like "probably" "We can assume," "No doubt" and and the like, are simply code words for "Come wade in the bullshit with me, folks."
 
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You say flatly it is all wishful thinking, let's see where are some references on your part? Back up your claims otherwise there is no reason to take your word as fact. Your view comes across as emotional not based in any sort of fact. You sound as if you think you have a right to censor what is said here - I don't think so!

Why should anyone trust your word, you sound like you need confirmation of your own ideas. You come across to me as a contrarian in an attempt to feel superior to others. I never said everyone has to agree, that would indicate insecurity on my side, rather I offered it for consideration each can believe if they want. You sound so desperate for people not to believe that you come across as insecure ... please everyone agree with me, or believe me because I need to feel right, or important ... LOL! I really don't give a damn what you believe! And I really have no need to prove I'm right to internet trolls, LOL!

You have over 26,000 posts here, I suggest that you spend a bit less time here and a bit more reading factual material, LOL! For someone calling bullshit you have very little content in your own posts, hmmm looks like projection of your own insecurities to me.
 
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I know I'm not affording you much respect here. I'm tired of seeing the same stupid beliefs repeated over and over until people think they're true just because they've heard them so much.

I'm going to quote etoile:
Etoile said:
I'm not going to argue about it with you. Yes, I understand what you wrote. However, I do not believe in "hard wiring" in humans beyond the instinct of self-preservation. Therefore, I disagree with your entire premise. I would appreciate it if you stop assuming I misunderstood you, and consider the possibility that others can understand what you're saying without automatically agreeing with you.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you think there's no content in my posts. Anyone who wants to check into the veracity of that has an easy way to do so:
http://forum.literotica.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=543078

What do you think friends? How dumb am I? :D
 
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1 part post-modernism, 2 parts whips and chains; shake and serve cold.

I'm a bit more existentialist than the average bear, so I'm going to give a complicated answer.

Nature or nurture is completely irrelevant, because none of us chose either. Our sexuality goes beyond the rational, conscious 'self', so we can't really decide where it came from or how to change it. Our 'self' is merely shaped by genetics and memory (which informs choice)...

Personally speaking, I think I've always been around violence. My first perception of masculinity was distant, absorbed, and abusive. This doesn't mean that I enjoy men abusing me, but I think my subconscious sexual psyche developed when I was younger and for whatever reason, this has stuck. Thus, I respond to masculine sexual energy with submission, whereas with females I feel comfortable as equal. I think our sexuality also has the ability to heal trauma; sort of like reoccurring dreams in which our sleeping brain uses non-REM to deal with past trauma and REM to attempt a future escape. In other words, my primitive brain is saying 'yes, you can have abuse in sex, because mommy and daddy did this; you can work all that ugly relationship dynamic out in this avenue so that you can move on with your healthy day'. The brain just wants balance and healing. Which is actually really remarkable, if you think about it.
 
i think it is something that is in a person when they are born,some people are born either submissive or dominate and it comes out in the relationships as they get older though i think most of us hide our true feelings.
 
Stella_Omega said:
I know I'm not affording you much respect here. I'm tired of seeing the same stupid beliefs repeated over and over until people think they're true just because they've heard them so much.

I'm going to quote etoile:


It's interesting that you think there's no content in my posts. Anyone who wants to check into the veracity of that has an easy way to do so:
http://forum.literotica.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=543078

What do you think friends? How dumb am I? :D
Click to expand...

Why don't you read the entire thread, etoile later admitted she was wrong and eagerly wanted to read a book that I suggested. Perhaps you should give it a try also, LOL! It is you who is spreading misinformation based on your own limited beliefs.
Seems you are trying to provoke, just like a troll! Why do you need to tell people what to think, let them read and think for themselves.
 
Sir Victor said:
Why don't you read the entire thread, etoile later admitted she was wrong and eagerly wanted to read a book that I suggested. Perhaps you should give it a try also, LOL! It is you who is spreading misinformation based on your own limited beliefs.
Seems you are trying to provoke, just like a troll! Why do you need to tell people what to think, let them read and think for themselves.
Click to expand...
Oh, I think they should read that thread. Especially now that you've made this specific claim; Etoile admitted she was wrong.

What did she admit she was wrong about?
 
If it's all hard-wired and there's such a thing as "dominant gene" or "submissive gene" (and if it's gender-dependent, it'd be on X or Y chromosome? =)), then we'd expect to see the same BDSM tendencies run in families. Being a newbie, I really haven't had much field experience, but what do you people see in your BDSM communities?
 
We are all capable of anything. I don't think we have any kind of research to back up either claim.
 
Btw while I don't think "Man's Role Is Master", I will agree that the evo-bio stuff helped to form a society (patriarchal) that is more susceptible to a bunch of wrong assumptions that in turn may have an influence on an individual's bdsm inclinations. This society isn't perfect and we're all victims of our time.
 
what is the evo-bio stuff that created a patriarchal society, welkin?

Honestly, I'm not ragging on you or even on Sir Victor. I just hate it that people talk about this stuff as if it were proven theory, and use it to explain what they think they see.

Evo-bio is a very new science, it's still in the data gathering stage. There isn't nearly enough data yet to support good strong theories.

As for genetics, the thing about "hard wiring" is that genes aren't wires. They are more like switches, millions of them that can turn off and on-- mostly during the time a fetus is developing. the genes that turn on in one person might not turn on in their siblings, because the fetal environment is different each time. (Google "gene expression" and "Epigenetics" for further information. :))

And when you're talking about very complex personality issues, there are no single genes that control any of this stuff. There are incredibly complex chemical cocktails in the brain, that influence and are influenced by the physical structures in your noggin-- and the rest of your body as well.

Yes, the desires are part of us. The anti-desire is equally part of us. A far more interesting question to me, is; "Why is the notion of evolutionary biology so very popular, and who is it that likes it the most?" Humans are very very complicated... and we wish we were simpler. Which is why evo-bio notions are so popular.
 
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@Omega You know, if you go read the other threads you might note that they were reasonable discussions without anyone like you just outright claiming bullshit. Your comments are unproductive and I see no point in discussing anything further with you.

One thing is obivous, and that is throughout the animal kingdom there are alpha males, and often females, certainly in monkeys and some even say fish. To claim that this hard wiring is gone in humans is absurd, rather it is in the lower brain just as hunger, sex drive, self preservation, etc. are. We are not that far away from monkeys on an animal level and we are not talking about complex behaviors or higher brain psychology.
 
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i have no proof about this, but my personal opinion is that it has always been about 'the survival of the fittest'
 
xperia2995 said:
i have no proof about this, but my personal opinion is that it has always been about 'the survival of the fittest'
Click to expand...
that phrase probably does not mean what you think it means...

It doesn't mean "survival of the most physically fit," or "survival of the biggest and baddest. (also known as "Social Darwinism"). It means 'survival of those that fit best into the environmental niche long enough to reproduce' and that doesn't have to be very long time at all...

A man named Herbert Spencer came up with it, because he felt Darwin's term "Natural Selection" made it seem as if some great Hand Of God or something, was actively selecting which species would live and die-- as if some of them were more deserving than others.

But as we see, words are very slippery. And humans really have a bug up their collective butts about relative worth. :D

Maybe folk mix up the word "fittest" with "fitness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest
 
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Sir Victor said:
@Omega You know, if you go read the other threads you might note that they were reasonable discussions without anyone like you just outright claiming bullshit. Your comments are unproductive and I see no point in discussing anything further with you.

One thing is obivous, and that is throughout the animal kingdom there are alpha males, and often females, certainly in monkeys and some even say fish. To claim that this hard wiring is gone in humans is absurd, rather it is in the lower brain just as hunger, sex drive, self preservation, etc. are. We are not that far away from monkeys on an animal level and we are not talking about complex behaviors or higher brain psychology.
Click to expand...

I hardly ever agree with Omega, but she's got you this time. It takes time to have an understanding of human physiology, never mind behaviour. The majority of people in the west have never opened any one of Darwin's four major works, but are quick to make grand assumptions about what they think is in there. Never mind all the research that's been done since. You've got a bad case of evolutionary psychology, a field whose theories are little understood by the public, and mostly rejected by the scientists who do. Convincing yourself that something must be true is very different than making a conclusion based on evidence.
 
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