Incest Writers: Sister should be virginal?

[BuckyDuckman]

In my latest Incest/Taboo story, "Amy's College Pussy" - I made Amy very experienced - purposefully. She has a lust for lust and that lustfulness drives her to have taboo sex with her brother just for the thrill of doing it with her brother.

In the comments, one person asked, "Had she really sucked and screwed that many guys or was it just a way to get her brother to have SEX with her" while another wrote, "Didn't like that she apparently was an actual whore." (She was never an actual whore, but she is motivated by her lust.)

A couple of the email/PM messages I received suggested similar thoughts - one even told me, "I don't believe Amy was really that experienced. I think she just said all that."

So, apparently, a sister (or daughter, I would assume) is supposed to be something close to virginal? To me, that borders on discrimination. Women like sex, too! (Shocker, I know!)

So what I'm learning is
1) Mom shouldn't want anal (previous discussion)
2) Sisters (and I'm assuming daughters) should be inexperienced.

How does that track for you and your writing? Is this advice you would give to other Incest/Taboo authors?

 

[SimonDoom]

I've encountered the "no anal for mom" comment but I haven't done enough sister incest to have experience with that. But it doesn't surprise me.

I think it's less a discriminatory attitude toward women generally (girls shouldn't have so much sex) as it is a projection of the reader's fantasy. Incest is a peculiar category. Despite involving breaking what might be the biggest attitude of all, this category has a lot of readers with markedly chaste and prudish tastes. Male readers put themselves in the position of the son in these stories, and part of the fantasy for them is being the one to break sister in -- to be sister's first. You spoil their fantasy if she's slept around before.

There's nothing you can or should feel obligated to do about it. It's your fantasy. If somebody else doesn't like it, they can read someone else's story.

 

[RejectReality]

The double standard undoubtedly applies.

I think there's another factor when it comes to I/T. You're "diluting" the taboo when there's a lot of stress on having sex with people outside the family.

The way you've worded the post, it also feels as if there's little that's special about doing her brother beyond another checkmark on her list. If it comes across that way in the story, that's a factor.

You're likely to get pushback for anal in any coupling. That applies across a lot of categories, actually. It's just especially strong in I/T.

 

[drscar]

Write for the Character, not the Comments

My $.02 (FWIW)

I never bought into the common criticism of "Mother/Madonna/Whore", but it appears that the readers on Lit actually do seem to fall into that expectation, and bristle when anything goes against the grain. As a side note, it's often amazing to me that people will comment on stories that show that they didn't actually *read* it.

Personally, I like the tack that you take here as you describe it. A woman who likes conquests - including her brother - works (for me) as long as the character is consistent. I read stories for the characters and how they react to situations, not because they suit a stereotype.

Now, having said all that, I believe what these types of commenters want, over and over, is to satisfy their fantasy of the inexperienced, not-willing-until-she-tries-it, seduced-awakening-into-a-slut plot. (I believe they are probably big into Japanese porn, too, for the same reason, but that's just a guess). No matter what you write, if it's not that same character "arc" on repeat, you'll get those kinds of comments.

 

[lovecraft68]

I tend to lean towards older sister younger brother with the brother having less experience and the stories seem to do okay in fact the last two
Shhh! The brother was a virgin
Tales of my Slutty sister(sister wasn't really slutty its a long story) the brother was not a virgin, but kind of shy and had one girlfriend.

Every category has its factions, incest is no different, in fact because of the number of pairings you can have it may have more than most.

The people who want the sister to be a virgin are also divided. Some its kind of a sweet taboo romance thing, big brother was her first, maybe she even saved herself for him

The other faction is the dickhead cold male insecurity crowd that hates the thought that a woman can have more experience than the guy(and if she does she's a whore of course)

The two stories I mentioned both placed in contests so take that for what its worth as for how they go over.

 

[lovecraft68]

The double standard undoubtedly applies.

I think there's another factor when it comes to I/T. You're "diluting" the taboo when there's a lot of stress on having sex with people outside the family.

The way you've worded the post, it also feels as if there's little that's special about doing her brother beyond another checkmark on her list. If it comes across that way in the story, that's a factor.

You're likely to get pushback for anal in any coupling. That applies across a lot of categories, actually. It's just especially strong in I/T.

I've noticed that anal doesn't seem to sit well with the I/T crowd...honor among thieves, you can blow a load on your mother/sister/daughter's face, but no back door action...that's wrong.

I've also gotten flack for the money shot going on the face or other part of the body when obviously it should only be inside.

One of these days I'll get it right I guess.

 

[lovecraft68]

Although sister brother is the topic others were mentioned so I'll my view on the dad/daughter dynamic.

In my opinion, and I have found many in the category both reader and writer who agree, having dad as the aggressor, no matter how its portrayed comes across as rapey and abuse of power, so I generally make the daughter the instigator and a sexy little minx.

More double standard because not many seem to think that way about a mother seducing her son.

An entire how to or essay could be done on the preferences of the various groups in I/T, but end of the day there is a faction for whatever you write and in general they're not generally an obnoxious trolling mob, they just point out their preferences in comments sometimes.

 

[SimonDoom]

Although sister brother is the topic others were mentioned so I'll my view on the dad/daughter dynamic.

In my opinion, and I have found many in the category both reader and writer who agree, having dad as the aggressor, no matter how its portrayed comes across as rapey and abuse of power, so I generally make the daughter the instigator and a sexy little minx.

More double standard because not many seem to think that way about a mother seducing her son.

An entire how to or essay could be done on the preferences of the various groups in I/T, but end of the day there is a faction for whatever you write and in general they're not generally an obnoxious trolling mob, they just point out their preferences in comments sometimes.

I agree with you on this, and what you say about the different categories ties in with what RejectReality said. The key is that people are looking for a story that sharpens the taboo to heighten the erotic pleasure of the story. There are many, many ways to do that, but certain ways seem to grease the skids better than others, so to speak.

It makes a big difference from whose perspective the story is told, because the reader is likely to put himself/herself in the shoes of the main POV character.

 

[NotWise]

None of the sisters in my sibcest stories are virginal and no-one's ever commented that they should be. I also don't make them appear promiscuous, so the difference may be a matter of degree.

 

[jaF0]

I had one sort of similar comment here, but to a lesser degree:

https://www.literotica.com/s/so-now-what-do-we-do

 

[MartaMaine]

Surely the fact that she's sister shouldn't preclude her from being sexually experienced

As for "Had she really sucked and screwed that many guys or was it just a way to get her brother to have SEX with her" while another wrote, "Didn't like that she apparently was an actual whore." it's the age old trope of a man who sleeps around is some kind of stud yet a woman who does the same is an "actual whore"

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with you on this, and what you say about the different categories ties in with what RejectReality said. The key is that people are looking for a story that sharpens the taboo to heighten the erotic pleasure of the story. There are many, many ways to do that, but certain ways seem to grease the skids better than others, so to speak.

It makes a big difference from whose perspective the story is told, because the reader is likely to put himself/herself in the shoes of the main POV character.

My stories tend to be first times-not as in virginal-but the first encounter between the family members. I never write sequels because for me, its the thrill of the kill so to speak, that first time, that crossing the line....

After that, unless there is a solid storyline to be found most incest series I've found aren't much more than "Chapter Two...they do it when Mom's upstairs" Chapter Three "They go on vacation and screw in the hotel"

However, for fun I have done some short pieces where the relationship is already ongoing so there's no build up needed, just a kinky encounter without any reason other than lust. I find them liberating to write in a sense, but also notice my years of writing slow burns works against me because the fan base isn't as happy with them, but it does pick up some of the one handed read types.

Most of those are in for sale anthologies, but this is one that I have on here.

https://literotica.com/s/mom-phones-it-in

Only two pages and not a complete second page, so very short for me. Also only a 4.51 so much lower than my average. A couple of comments called out the humor because it was written to be taken lightly

And of course we have the unavoidable angry cheating comment...The LW turds always seem to roll out of their litterbox

 

[lovecraft68]

" while another wrote, "Didn't like that she apparently was an actual whore." it's the age old trope of a man who sleeps around is some kind of stud yet a woman who does the same is an "actual whore"

Admittedly that's a part of my reason for having the sister be older, more in control and the more experienced lover. I excel at angering the 'real men"

 

[jaF0]

My stories tend to be first times-not as in virginal-but the first encounter between the family members. I never write sequels because for me, its the thrill of the kill so to speak, that first time, that crossing the line....

After that, unless there is a solid storyline to be found most incest series I've found aren't much more than "Chapter Two...they do it when Mom's upstairs" Chapter Three "They go on vacation and screw in the hotel"

That's where I went, and am not really planning a second, though one may flow out eventually.

Admittedly that's a part of my reason for having the sister be older, more in control and the more experienced lover.

Yep. I didn't want her (or either really) to be taken advantage of.

 

[sirhugs]

I think that with 25 comments, having a few that express this criticism is not something to worry about- no doubt there are readers with the specific need to read about virginal sisters or daughters, but that is not necessarily the majority.

I have written a lot of daughter stories, with a few that are sluts, a few that are virgins, and most in between. I have not noticed any pattern of criticism. Mind you, I get very few comments.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yep. I didn't want her (or either really) to be taken advantage of.

I try to have some affection and love in mine. Even if the situation starts out kind of lusty I work in that angle of how siblings are family, friends, confidants, partners in crimes, and now...lovers and the whole everything to each other...gets them every time.

But there is a faction for the blackmail and sleazy sibsex (all incest) crowd. I've dabbled a little in that, but found that somehow in the end, I need to make it a little bit more...guess I'm just a taboo romantic at heart,

 

[BuckyDuckman]

None of the sisters in my sibcest stories are virginal and no-one's ever commented that they should be. I also don't make them appear promiscuous, so the difference may be a matter of degree.

I think you've hit a key point here. I purposely made Amy promiscuous as a shortcut to the action. Lazy writing, but then again, I wanted to see if I could write something shorter (it's only 6000 words, two Lit pages).

For me, the fun of writing incest lies in overcoming the "but this is wrong!" barrier and justifying the character's actions. (Then again, that's true of most of my stories, including the bi-guy stories, too.) I might be a little heavy-handed in the hesitancy/reluctance part of my I/T stories, but it is what it is.

To me, a first time can be lust. A second time, it becomes a choice.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think that with 25 comments, having a few that express this criticism is not something to worry about- no doubt there are readers with the specific need to read about virginal sisters or daughters, but that is not necessarily the majority.

I have written a lot of daughter stories, with a few that are sluts, a few that are virgins, and most in between. I have not noticed any pattern of criticism. Mind you, I get very few comments.

I've done the classic daughter is an escort and dad inadvertently hires her....those are a little absurd, but done right can be a lot of fun.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

An entire how to or essay could be done on the preferences of the various groups in I/T, but end of the day there is a faction for whatever you write and in general they're not generally an obnoxious trolling mob, they just point out their preferences in comments sometimes.

I'm surprised one hasn't been written (surely, it has). You've been very open through the years with sharing your experiences about what audiences want in this category.

One of the other little rules seems to be the need for the "and they lived together happily ever after" ending, which I think sucks. I think it's okay for people to have a short-lived fling that doesn't last forever.

For the record, I'm still going to write the stories I want to write - but it seldom costs anything extra to toss in a crowd-pleasing element or two along the way.

 

[jaF0]

Yeah, the one I linked above is pretty absurd and very unlikely that it would ever happen, but hey, this is Lit, the land of fantasy, so.....

 

[LexxRuthless]

In my latest Incest/Taboo story, "Amy's College Pussy" - I made Amy very experienced - purposefully. She has a lust for lust and that lustfulness drives her to have taboo sex with her brother just for the thrill of doing it with her brother.

In the comments, one person asked, "Had she really sucked and screwed that many guys or was it just a way to get her brother to have SEX with her" while another wrote, "Didn't like that she apparently was an actual whore." (She was never an actual whore, but she is motivated by her lust.)

A couple of the email/PM messages I received suggested similar thoughts - one even told me, "I don't believe Amy was really that experienced. I think she just said all that."

So, apparently, a sister (or daughter, I would assume) is supposed to be something close to virginal? To me, that borders on discrimination. Women like sex, too! (Shocker, I know!)

So what I'm learning is
1) Mom shouldn't want anal (previous discussion)
2) Sisters (and I'm assuming daughters) should be inexperienced.

How does that track for you and your writing? Is this advice you would give to other Incest/Taboo authors?

I don't think either of these apply as typical reactions within the genre. Pretty sure at this point it's the same handful of vocal anonytards who feel the need to comment on every I/T story that contains ANY anal or in which the sister is sexually experienced. Since those are themes that frequently appear in my stories, I have seen virtually the same comments on a dozen of my stories. Usually (if I don't delete them right away) there are responses from other readers letting the anonymous commenter know that they think he's an idiot.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yeah, the one I linked above is pretty absurd and very unlikely that it would ever happen, but hey, this is Lit, the land of fantasy, so.....

I think that's the challenge of incest. Most categories here other than the reality benders like Sci-fi and non human(and non con seeing that's often rape and a crime) can and do happen in real life

You can have group sex, interracial, lesbian Gay. fetishes etc...but incest? Not very plausible when dealing with the fun fantasy not an abusive reality, so to try and write a scenario where the readers could say "You know, this could happen" is what I often strive for.

 

[jaF0]

I went for highly unlikely, but possible and tried to make it sound like an accident until ...

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm surprised one hasn't been written (surely, it has). You've been very open through the years with sharing your experiences about what audiences want in this category.

One of the other little rules seems to be the need for the "and they lived together happily ever after" ending, which I think sucks. I think it's okay for people to have a short-lived fling that doesn't last forever.

For the record, I'm still going to write the stories I want to write - but it seldom costs anything extra to toss in a crowd-pleasing element or two along the way.

I do get frequent comments that I leave off without coming out and saying they're going to be together forever. I do leave it that they enjoyed it and plan on more, but not saying they're going to grow old together. I may have mentioned them wanting to move off together once or twice, but nothing concrete and I don't write the sequel to show it.

I'm a one and done in the category. The reader can imagine their life together or think they eventually moved on. Its a choose your own adventure ending

And seeing some of the fetish stuff you write I assumed you would write for yourself not the audience regardless of what cat you're in.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And I have never gotten a comment like that on any of my I/T stories. Not on my sister/brother or mother/son.